Major Retailers Start Charging For Plastic Bags

[exalll]

some people here are clapping hands...

but once you get your trolley into the back of your car (or taxi)... how easy it will be to get it out and into your homes...

so paper is better? than you support of cutting down rain forest for your goodies

paper takes about 30 years to rotten to nothing, in case you would wonder...

No-one in their right minds would try to make paper bags out of tropical rain forest trees - the fibres are simply too short. Yes, good paper can be made out of temperate rain forest trees, but better still are boreal forest trees. I don't think it takes paper 30 years to biodegrade.

As for how easy it is to transfer the goods you have packed into cloth bags from your car or taxi to your house ... as easy as in plastic bags (or, as someone pointed out, easier, as the cloth does not bite into your hands like the plastic does).

[eggomaniac]

VERY surprised that everyone is so much in favour of eliminating plastic bags with no real alternative. What does everybody use to line their rubbish bins? Paper would be OK for most rubbish in living areas and bedrooms, IF these are provided, but leaky kitchen waste is completely different. unless of course one installs a waste disposal unit (good idea, may do that!) Someone mentioned that they have 4 canvas type bags, we have more but a single shop at Tops may use 20 bags when I only meant to use 4. Will they sell extra bags cheap or do I leave the rest of my shopping there? Good idea for the environment but not thought out enough to work properly

This IS the absolute solution; every home with a garburator! Combined with the toilet stream, you could have power heating stations in neighborhoods!!!

Until then; biodegradable bags. WHY are they burning at the dumps???

Complete idiots???

That is the WORST; unless it is high TEMP incineration!

[paulandmaneerat]

In Taiwan, 7-Eleven charge 1 TWD (1.3 baht) for a plastic bag. Most people go in prepared whilst others just carry their purchases in their hands. It works very well.

P&M

[joefromdc]

so paper is better? than you support of cutting down rain forest for your goodies

paper takes about 30 years to rotten to nothing, in case you would wonder...

Two problems with this statement:

First, the wood used for things like paper, paper towels and tissue is "farmed" wood. The trees grow quickly (in the 10-20 year range) and three trees are planet for each one harvested. The rain forest is being cut down for building materials not paper bags.

Second, the 30 year statistic is a bit misleading. Under certain conditions (and quite frankly, like those in most landfills) paper can take 30 years to rot. Set a paper bag out in the woods some where though, it'll break down in months. Some countries treat paper products (burn being one option) that can't be recycled so they don't stay in a landfill for 30 years. Plus the plastic bags pretty much last longer than our recorded history. Even if the 30 year number is accurate, that beats 10,000+ years. Not to mention the paper bags in the ocean will break down much much faster then in a land fill or dry land. The plastics ones, never.

Problem here is we're talking about Thailand. Would you rather have the unknown neighbors mention earlier burning plastic or paper bags? The benefit on beach/ocean pollution of paper vs. plastic should be obvious. The paper bag solution may not be a panacea but seems better than plastic.

Careful about the propaganda you read. It might inaccurate information (rain forest) or use statistics (decomposition time) in a manner that makes their case without accurately telling the entire story. Remember what Benjamin Disraeli (later paraphrased by Mark Twain) said. There are three kinds of lies. Lies, dam_n lies and statistics.

[Grey13]

Very good move. I hope it catches on and spreads throughout the country.

Unfortunately it doesn't include the worst givers of plastic, 7-Eleven, where you get a bag regardless of the size of your purchase, plastic bags inside plastic bags, a plastic straw if you buy a litre of milk etc.

You can refuse a plastic bag. When I buy a coke @ 7-Eleven I tell them that I don't need a bag. Here in Phuket there needs to be some law - or if there is a policeman being visable occasionally - to stop shop owners from dumping their garbage in the klongs. There is trash pickup in front of their businesses but most prefer to just dump their trash. My wife and I have used bags made of other material for years. If you drive through the eastern side of Phuket, it is becoming more and more of a dump. If this helps one iota it is worth it. But, I wish the governor of Phuket would enforce littering.

[brahmburgers]

best news in awhile. Sea turtles would thank you, if they could. Untold thousands of sea turtles (and other aquatic fauna) choke on discarded plastic crap all the time. We only hear about it rarely, as 99.99% of such fatalities are out of sight, out of mind.

I often take my store bought item(s) out of a plastic bag, if I'm not quick enough to say "mai aow toom, Kap" before it's bagged.

Let's see this sensible policy develop further to a ban on plastic bags, as exists in some other countries. I heard, years ago, that shoppers in Germany would take the packaging off products at the check-out counter, and leave it there with the company.

That would also be excellent. A short while after the store had to deal with all that horrible over-packaging, it would make a fuss, as its trash cans would fill up in no time. Then would come the ripple affect back to the manufacturers, to quit packaging so intensely. If you buy a little mouse for your computer, it's got the hard clear plastic, plus plasticized cardboard, plus other layers of plastic over that. Same for most other consumer items. It's disgusting, and ought to be stopped any way possible.

[jb5music]

"Major retailers start mandating shoes that charge you 1 baht for every step you take

in order to cut down on the amount of cracks in the sidewalk"

[Spalpeen]

My wife eats in the car - well let's face it, she eats all the time, in or out of the car. But she has the habit of just rolling down the window and chucking out the paper, plastic and food waste. At home she's fastidiously clean but she just can't get the idea that chucking rubbish is a bad thing.

[Luxius]

This sounds like a great idea....and it should work......but it's not new by any means. Charging for plastic bags had been done for years in western countries. All the supermarkets in my home town in Canada started doing it and what actually happened was that most people just paid for the bags instead of getting them free....so the result was that the supermarkets got a new and very profitable product line. A few stalwarts use cloth bags for sure....but often forget to bring them when they go shopping...so after all the initial promotion dies down....its plastic as usual. If the Phuket stores charge 2 baht a bag....and a bag actually costs them 0.3 baht....they will have a bigger margin on the bags than on most of the other merchandise they sell.. The only way you will ever stop Thailand from being littered with plastic bags is to ban then altogether.....and what a shock that would be to the poor 7-11 staff.....

The other one of course is plastic bottles......wrapped in plastic....which is then put in plastic bags........double plastic bags... ..... plastic plastic everywhere....

and now we have to pay....

I do hope I'm wrong because I hate the bloody things............but that is what happened back home..........

This guy is absolutely right.

Charge on plastic bags can be compared with the extra fee banks put on withdrawals from oversea recently. Remember? You already paid a fee to your own bank, but the Thai banks thought they wanted a piece of cake too.

I do not believe that this move has to do with anything but PROFIT!

[brahmburgers]

Asia is a rice based culture, why can't any one of the billions of Asians figure out a way to make thin plastic out of rice? It would have to be made in such a way as to be bio-degradable.

Next, maybe one in 4 billion Asians can figure a way to make a biodegradable substitute for styrofoam. Styrofoam is used much too often for 'take-away'. Banana leaves work well. I will offer $5,000 for anyone who can invent a Styrofoam substitute that's bio-degradable. The caveat would be, I'd be half owner of the patent (which I can arrange), and the product would bio-degrade in two to four weeks in moist soil, with no toxic residue.

Note, I planted giant bamboo on my property in northernmost Thailand. The sheaves that fall from the stalks are very big. I have cut a circular shape as big around as a beach ball from one (experimented with disposable picnic dinner plate). Perhaps someone can find a way to use some of those billions of sheaves to make take-out containers (without toxic glue). Some people already make pith helmets out of them, I bought one in Burma which lasted for years - insulating and extremely lightweight.

Lets see how long this "crackdown" on plastic bags will last. They will get thousands of complains of the local Thai people who don't share the same view about this as you rich & strange farang. In a few weeks everything will be back to normal and if ever ask then initiators of this idea will admit that western style living is not for thais....

If you think that Thailand ever will be like you home country better stop dreaming and go home because this will never happen

I've been residing in Thailand for 1/5th of my life, and I don't give a hoot for offending Thais who live in ignorance and pollute. They already adopt hundreds of farang ideas, some of which are harmful (violent videos, for example), so what's wrong with Thais adapting environmental attitudes like using/burning less plastic

and learning to be less litter-prone. If husbandry of outdoor places is any indication, farang care a whole lot more for Thailand than Thais do. If you don't believe me, take a look at any outdoor venue after a public gathering. Where there were Thais, there will be trash everywhere. Where there were farang, the trash will be in receptacles.

Edited November 16, 2009 by brahmburgers

[OldgitTom]

A step in the right direction. Time to buy those cloth shopping bags people.

Never mind cloth bags, bring back the string bag. Strong, durable, & they roll up into a small thing you can shove in yer pocket. Come on OTOP, give us back our string bags.

OGT

[SunsetT]

Just wanted to complain about 7/11 wasting plastic too, but about 10 people already said the same thing.

They usually get those straws in my bag before I think to stop them, so I just put in on the counter. I know it get's thrown away, but at least they might start to ask (foreigners at least) if we want a straw for our half gallon of milk and liter of coke.

Wherever you shop in Thailand, or, for that matter, in the World, you can refuse the bags and straws; say "Mai Aouw" in Thailand, or with sign language (and a smile) anywhere. And if you have to remove your goods from bag(s) already provided and make a bit of a fuss, then sobeit, maybe staff, management, and other shoppers will then take notice and catch on to this serious environmental problem. Does anyone know simple Thai (for simple me to remember!) for "Too much plastic!", "Bad for Thailand!", "Bad for the World/Environment!"

[Brewsta]

Fantastic news!

It's about time this country begins to cut down on it's waste.

Rubbish is everywhere. Plastic bags but also plastic bottles.

When will they start a recycle program for bottles of all materials?

"mai ow tung, na khrap".....

- no bag,thank you....try it, sometime people.

etc,

Brewsta

[ballzafire]

A step in the right direction. Time to buy those cloth shopping bags people.

Seconded.

[ballzafire]

A step in the right direction. Time to buy those cloth shopping bags people.

Never mind cloth bags, bring back the string bag. Strong, durable, & they roll up into a small thing you can shove in yer pocket. Come on OTOP, give us back our string bags. OGT

Whatever. Just pack one.

[fsuthai]

I am not stupid enough to buy this <deleted> arse endever.

If they wanted to stop the amount of bags being used, they could train the staff to use them more sparingly. If they only cost 0.3 baht to buy and they sell them at 2 or even 1 baht, the stores will encourage staff to use MORE bags for customers.

Thai customes won't argue as it will look like they are arguing over a few bahts worth of plastic and farang customers aree too few and far between to have a significant country wide effect. This about making more money disguised as enviromental concern, and I am surprised you lot haven't clocked it yet.

Hey, Trianglechoke, I don't think everyone is as cynical as you appear to be. Too many of us westerners living in Thailand seem to 'look for negatives' and are too quick to criticize! Of course the Thais can adapt to change, and 'our' ideas aren't always better! As someone above said, "What about organizing all of those little plastic bags into our car or taxi?". Most Thais are carrying those little bags on the handlebars of a motorbike and heavy products frequently bust through a single plastic bag, especially if you live 20-30 K out in the country. Plus its easier to balance the load with several small bags. I'd like to see the govt. start developing a country-wide garbage disposal system. But, in the meantime I'm opposed to plastic and in favor of hemp!

[ernieK24]

I hate to admit it, but the very first thing I thought of when I read this article was, "Ah, another scheme to up their already obscene profit margin, and rip off the very people that keep them in business".Picture, if you will, a customer buying a couple kilos of loose tomatoes, onions, carrots, potatoes, or a bunch of broccoli or a head of cabbage. Shall we just gently lay them all, loosely into the shopping cart and place them gently on the checkout belt and let the checkout lady decide what to do with them, because you absolutely refuse to pay an extra one or two baht for a receptacle to transport them to your car. Or do you just pile all of them in the same plastic bag, and let management decide how to figure it out, to save the one or two baht for each bag? Where I came from, the checkout employee ALWAYS asks, "paper or plastic", and MOST people, I have noticed, prefer paper. And I'll guarantee it does not take THIRTY YEARS, for a brown paper bag to disintegrate, and become fertilizer for the soil. Whoever said that is an "air-head".

Something has to be done, there's no question about that, but making the customer pay for it isn't the answer

[jombom]

Excellent news.

Unfortunately, important information seems to be missing from the report ---- e.g. Where does the extra money go?

In my country it is a 100% Gov't tax, supposedly used to fund various recycling schemes etc.

[vicco]

Saving the enviroment has become a huge new industry....(Al Gore is making a fortune out of it).....

It's far too expensive to maintainthe enviroment......we should just get rid of it..... ..

[tmark]

If you had to say no thank you every time its required i would be mumbling it 50 times a day LOL, hand the straws back with a smile would be offensive? I doubt it very much.

If you go to 7-11 50 times a day .. I guess you have a problem bigger than I can suggest a remedy for. "Hand" them back .. sure ... but drop them on the counter? If you understand Thai culture you would know that's a bit rude.

I only hope I don't get any straws that have already been manhandled by previous customers.

Just take the damm things .. save them up and donate them to the local school for art projects or whatever .. toss them in the bin on the way out .. whatever .. just don't throw them back on the counter .. unless you like being viewed as a pig (by the Thais)

[dadisbell]

A step in the right direction. Time to buy those cloth shopping bags people.

1116_reply.txt

[liloldspirut]

Several Questions come to mind:

1. 500 Tons? A day a month or a Year?

2. Why does everybody think it will work? It has not in more prominent countries.

3. Is there a more alternative purpose, like the large retailers finding a way of obtaining more money from its customers under todays economic conditions.

4. How much of this 500 tons is plastic bags.

5. Did you know that plastic can be made biodegradable? Last only six months before breakdown.

6. Who has been complaining? The Thhais are not, at least where I have been.

Never go blindly in the status without knowing the results.

[Samuian]

Just wanted to complain about 7/11 wasting plastic too, but about 10 people already said the same thing.

They usually get those straws in my bag before I think to stop them, so I just put in on the counter. I know it get's thrown away, but at least they might start to ask (foreigners at least) if we want a straw for our half gallon of milk and liter of coke.

Everyone can participate actively in reducing rubbish in asking the cashier to keep the straws, the extra plastic bag, usually have my day pack and things which are packed already don't need to be put into another plastic bag ....

Anyway mostly the "fast biodegradable" plastic bags are used these days...,

however it can be done:

[ernieK24]

I hate to admit it, but the very first thing I thought of when I read this article was, "Ah, another scheme to up their already obscene profit margin, and rip off the very people that keep them in business".Picture, if you will, a customer buying a couple kilos of loose tomatoes, onions, carrots, potatoes, or a bunch of broccoli or a head of cabbage. Shall we just gently lay them all, loosely into the shopping cart and place them gently on the checkout belt and let the checkout lady decide what to do with them, because you absolutely refuse to pay an extra one or two baht for a receptacle to transport them to your car. Or do you just pile all of them in the same plastic bag, and let management decide how to figure it out, to save the one or two baht for each bag? Where I came from, the checkout employee ALWAYS asks, "paper or plastic", and MOST people, I have noticed, prefer paper. And I'll guarantee it does not take THIRTY YEARS, for a brown paper bag to disintegrate, and become fertilizer for the soil. Whoever said that is an "air-head".

Something has to be done, there's no question about that, but making the customer pay for it isn't the answer

One way to partially relieve, but not completely, the waste of plastic bags would be for the store managers, and owners and franchisees of the various 7/11's, family markets, and mom & pop stores to take an employee break occasionally and instruct their help to cooperate in saving money for the company that pays their wages. The employer could certainly appoint someone to patrol the checkout counters, and make sure the checkout employees are following new guidelines concerning conserving plastic bags. I know it's expecting a lot to expect the owners, managers, and employers to actually THINK, and do something on their own to conserve. It's too easy to pass legislation forcing the consumer to take ALL the responsibility.

Wake up.....and join the human race.

[Dpolenz]

I think its a good idea,hope that rule makes it way down to pattaya also

[rheinwiese]

The charge will be 1 or 2 baht per bag?

I strongly doubt that this will have a significant impact.

At least 5 or 10 Baht makes people think.

[oldexp]

So how will I ever know that I m in Thailand when there are no more "white platic bag" filled grasslands?

[steveromagnino]

I have NEVER had an issue with asking for no plastic bag or straw, and I frequently hear other people (thai and foreign alike) saying much the same thing.

The key is to ask as they are about to use, not after they've already packed your stuff and asking them to take it all out again. It isn't impolite, it isn't that unexpected and lots and lots of people already do this all the time. For something like a straw, obviously there are perceived issues of someone handling someone else's straws prior to putting them in a bag; you might have just come out of the john or being touching yourself (I want you to know me) so that's why speaking up ahead of time (and it isn't exactly the 6th sense here, you know they are going to give you a straw for each drink when you place the drinks on the counter....just like we all know he is a ghost and was dead the whole time.....OOOPS too soon?!) works a treat.

I don't really care where the extra money goes; the point is if you want a bag, you pay, if you don't then you don't and this requires a conscious choice to buy a bag.

Let's assume that there is some price elasticity; obviously people are going to take less bags. Simple economics. And it forces a decision.

Yes, plastic bags CAN be biodegradable. Most are not. They are and will break down with UV...however if buried under the ground then there isn't UV and they don't break down.

Yes, wood used to make paper bags theoretically might be better; however the bleaches, process and amount of native wood used to make bags is not that much better so instead of using a disposable bag, perhaps just using a canvas cloth or reusable or no bag at all is a better solution.

At a top level many of the retailers ARE running education schemes, but combine that with a very transient work force; the relatively low cost of the bags; the lack of motivation of some of the staff and in the case of 7:11, the issues of communicating through the franchise system to owners who will talk to their staff, and you have a low importance nice to do but not essential activity - Quadrant 4 type stuff. But....should something be done? Absolutely. And this has been brewing for a while and there will be a few small steps in the right direction each year; those of you who imagine some massive giant leap forward where all the plastic disappears from 1 edict....it just doesn't happen in the world like that for the most part - people don't realise their lifestyle choices while having a minute impact on the environment individually, collectively have a massive impact.

The fact that someone would NOT bother to ask not to have a plastic bag thanks to an assumed lack of understanding or odd look indicates this is not a trait only belonging to 'The Thais' who apparently in this thread and many others are such a homogeneous lot that we can base a conclusion on the few thousand we've met and run that out to 61 million people effortlessly. Nice work if you can get it.

The main issue Thailand has in disposing of the plastic is that unlocking the caloric value of the plastic (which is good) is that it usually is including wet food stuffs; noodles, sauces, etc; to separate the two is very difficult....so we end up throwing away the biodegradable food content with the plastic at the same time. And it makes a massive mess for tips and incinerators; if just plastic then it makes a feedstock....food mixed with plastic mixed with lumps of junk....not so much.

If the end result is people take crates and boxes and bags to supermarkets to shop, and use a few less pointless bags, then I'm all for it.

As for the west learning all this centuries ago....the amount of trash produced by western countries is for the most part higher per capita and comprises a higher proportion of non organic trash such as plastics. Strange when you consider how much stuff is actually made in China and the developing world which probably hides the lifestyle choices of nike wearing starbucks disposable cup drinking SUV driving soccer mums with their coffee makers automoatically on at 6am and their aircon in their nice 10000 sq foot condo and ready to eat TV dinners type people.

It's mostly their garbage is processed out of sight.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/env_pol_...aste-per-capita

And for those of you who think about statistics, obviously this isn't the best guide since it isn't waste generated per person, it is waste collected. Big diff. However, I have little doubt Americans would both generate and collect the most. Having lived there. If this is to believed, the Americans outperform the entire EU with on average over a ton of waste per person.

http://www.climatebiz.com/blog/2009/03/12/...untry-trashiest

Thailand generates a moderate amount. Does a horrid job of collection in places.... so generating less make collection easier dunnit.

1b may not have as much of an effect as 5b, but certainly more effect than 0b. Assuming any price elasticity in plastic carrying bags. And by adding a price the retailers have an incentive to also not give out bags except to people who pay.... everyone wins. Well except the person wanting the bag, in which case 1b is a small price to pay.

Edited November 16, 2009 by steveromagnino

[stolidfeline]

I don't know if the plastic bags used by Carrefours and Tescos (where I shop) are in fact biodegradable already. I've noticed that every day the locals dump hundreds of plastic bags onto a strip of public/waste land nearby. Nobody is responsible for this land so it certainly never gets cleaned. Yet there is no buildup of rubbish from the plastic bags. They break down into small bits under the UV from the sunlight and within a week or two have all but disappeared.

I counted my bags yesterday. I had 13 bags from the supermarket. I too use them for rubbish, and so does everyone else in my building. In future I will have to buy bin liners instead.

Is that an ad for Villa I see above with a cloth bag giveaway?

[CrossBones]

Good and bad

In Australia shops have starting giving out really flimsy plastic bags, so unless you are careful bags break and shopping goes all over the road... broken glass, oil and worse.

Aldi are a cheap supermarket, they wont give you a bag unless you pay 20 cents each! They say this is to save the environment but its rubbish because they spam your letter box weekly with large catalogs and their deliver people often leave them all over the street. You see Aldi customers wrestling with overfilled cardboard boxes full of groceries because they are too cheap to give you a bag.

7-11 in Thailand are discusting... i really think they need to change. I am surprised 7-11 USA doesnt step in??

Paper bags seem to be an obvious advantage, made from renewable sources etc.

Edited November 16, 2009 by CrossBones