Red Shirts Expect 1 Million People To Join Rally From Nov 29

[mojaco]

Remember Thaksin's projections for elite card sales? This revolution, same same. Wake up. His political career in Thailand is FINISHED.

I've saved this statement for future use.

I hope you're right though.

EDIT: And I gained another 25 cents.

BTW, this is a summary of every time you mentioned the word "Thaksin". It's 19 pages of posts, including only your own posts: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/search.html&...lite=%2BThaksin

Seems to me YOU are the one with a fixation on that person's name? Amazing the fervency to work to gather 19 pages of someone else's posts!!

[Siripon]

Apart from the possible seizure of his money, Thaksin is also worried about the popularity of Apisit's populist programmes which are coming into effect. The present rice, sweetcorn and tapioca subsidies cover a potential 5 million farmers, far more than the 600,000 covered in Thaksin's term before the subsidy ran out. The farmers council will be set up next year too.

And starting very soon is the project to transfer loan shark debts to state banks, this should cover one million people.

[Thailand]

I wish I got a quarter for every time Jingthing wrote down the word "Thaksin". Why the obsession?

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

And don't forget the "Black Songkran" quote every time red & Thaksin are mentioned!

[Siripon]

I wish I got a quarter for every time Jingthing wrote down the word "Thaksin". Why the obsession?

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

And don't forget the "Black Songkran" quote every time red & Thaksin are mentioned!

I'm glad you mentioned the word' meddle' Winnie for there was not greater meddler than Thaksin- meddling in armed forces reshuffle to promote his ineffective cousin, brother-in-law in the police, independent organisations, 2 million baht in a lunch box to the court, if the red shirts want democracy without meddling they'd better get rid of Thaksin first.

Regarding Samak's removal- he had the right to stand again as PM and did- but Thaksin wanted his more malleable brother-in- law instead, betraying Samak.

And regarding Panlop's claim of Suthep bribes- Panlop has a very big credibility problem, to put it mildly.

Don't eat so much of the early morning grass Winnie, it's still lush at this time of year but can lead to blinkered vision.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

I wish I got a quarter for every time Jingthing wrote down the word "Thaksin". Why the obsession?

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

And don't forget the "Black Songkran" quote every time red & Thaksin are mentioned!

Yes, I don't understand the eagerness to tout that around to be honest.. If anything it establishes a link between the Red's struggle and past 'black' events in 1992 and 1976.

This cartoon depicts that link quite clearly.. Back then it was a witch hunt against 'communists'.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

I'm glad you mentioned the word' meddle' Winnie for there was not greater meddler than Thaksin- meddling in armed forces reshuffle to promote his ineffective cousin, brother-in-law in the police, independent organisations,

Sorry, but elected government is SUPPOSED to manage organizations like the military and police; it's their job. It's not meddling when you do your job of managing state organizations. It's called 'doing your job'. We now know that the reality is quite different, and that the military for one really isn't managed by elected government at all.

And regarding Panlop's claim of Suthep bribes- Panlop has a very big credibility problem, to put it mildly.

Don't eat so much of the early morning grass Winnie, it's still lush at this time of year but can lead to blinkered vision.

Well, we'll see in court won't we? Either Panlop has the factual evidence, or Suthep will nail his balls to the wall in court.

Edited November 18, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[animatic]

Thaksin was never bothered by the courts being under political pressure

when it was HIS side applying that pressure and it was working.

When he wins all is fair and sunny lightness, when he loses it;s biased and unfair.

When someone shoves back, he cries foul.

Tough luck Doc. Can't have it both ways.

[hammered]

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

I'm glad you mentioned the word' meddle' Winnie for there was not greater meddler than Thaksin- meddling in armed forces reshuffle to promote his ineffective cousin, brother-in-law in the police, independent organisations,

Sorry, but elected government is SUPPOSED to manage organizations like the military and police; it's their job. It's not meddling when you do your job of managing state organizations. It's called 'doing your job'. We now know that the reality is quite different, and that the military for one really isn't managed by elected government at all.

And regarding Panlop's claim of Suthep bribes- Panlop has a very big credibility problem, to put it mildly.

Don't eat so much of the early morning grass Winnie, it's still lush at this time of year but can lead to blinkered vision.

Well, we'll see in court won't we? Either Panlop has the factual evidence, or Suthep will nail his balls to the wall in court.

Come on Winnie we all know that whatever happens in court the lsoing side will state it was poltiical interference

I personally think the Panlop thing is aimed at trying to get the 111 back on the train by riling them. To date many have sat quietly or moved more into back seat control of what is now quite lucrative, largely unnoticed and hence risk free local government

[webfact]

Thaksin supporters plan mass rally on Sunday

BANGKOK, Nov 17 (TNA) – Supporters of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra plan to hold a mass rally at Government House to expel the current government, beginning Sunday, according to Jatuporn Prompan, a top leader of the anti-government United Front for Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD).

An official date and location will be announced later, Mr Jatuporn said, adding that he expected about one million demonstrators to join the rally, which will be prolonged to December 3.

They will then suspend their protest for the celebration of His Majesty the King's birthday on December 5 and will return to the rally site if the government still remains in power, he said.

He gave assurances that the Red Shirt protesters will not move to other locations and not seize government offices to avoid any inconvenience to the public.

Insisting the protesters will apply peaceful means in their fight, he said they will not back off no matter what kind of security act Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva declares.

"We call on Mr Abhisit to dissolve the House to pave the way for a new election," Mr Jatuporn said. (TNA)

-- TNA 2009/11/18

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Wolfie]

When they get 100,000 people, let alone one million, monkeys will fly out of my butt.

What *have* you been eating?

[Mrjlh]

True "Democracy" at work here. I guess the other 50 million Thai people who can vote have no say! The "Red Shirts" have decided what is good for the country and they are right and evetryone else is wrong, even if they are not the majority.

What makes you arrive at that conclusion? The Red Shirts want elections. That means everyone gets to vote whichever way they want.

The reason they want elections is:

1. They feel that past "Red" leaning governments have been removed unjustly, and undemocratically through:

1a. Military Coup

1b. Courts that were under political influence, resulting in the removal of an elected government over matters as trivial as being in a cooking TV show, or because of faked evidence by bribed witnesses, or by new laws forced into place under the military junta government that were specifically designed to be able to selectively ban entire parties based on relatively minor irregularities.

2. They feel that Abhisit and the Democrat Party never received a mandate directly from the voters; rather he formed a government by coercing/enticing/bribing Newin's clan to defect to their side.

Anyway, that's their story, and their reasoning for wanting elections.

It is in the way it is presented that I made my comment, although a little tongue and cheek at that. They "say" or someone is saying "they say", a new government by years end, period. That means most likely another coup. And that is not what this country needs again. If they really want an "Election" why not say we want to have an election by this or that date, period. And get the masses on their side.

This country has to stabilize inorder to become successful. The people causing all the demonstrations need to start recognizing the process that will get things done. Instead of fighting the government all the time they to start talking to the masses about what is wrong. You need to get the masses on your side and not against you. Right now the majority of the masses hate both the yellow/red shirts for the damage that's been done. They need to repair their image. Accept what they have for now, then have legitimate election. Both sides agreeing to be poll monitors if needed. Accept the results. Elections can not be every year. That's too short of time for change to take place. Every 4 years would be better. If the people don't like what they see, vote the politicians out.

In the mean time they can use existing laws to remove corrupt or incompetent politicians if that be the case. It may seem slow but it works. You have several "thorns" that need to be removed. As much as people may like them for whatever reason, they must be removed. Because it is those individuals who are constantly stirring the pot creating friction. Both sides need to get fresh leaders who can lead. It is a very hard thing to do but it must be accomplished. The current government must bring all those party's to justice once and for all.

You can't teach "Democracy", you have to live it to fully understand it. It's not always perfect but it's better that being under some other form of control. With the turmoil in this country over the years, Thais have never really felt the full impact a "free and Democratic society" has to offer.

I sometimes think there are many Expats here from all over the world that would like to be able to physically step into the Thai government and act as advisers in order to get the Thai people what they need. But that is not our job and it is up to the Thai people like in any other country to take care of their own internal affairs.

[Meridian007]

I wish I got a quarter for every time Jingthing wrote down the word "Thaksin". Why the obsession?

The Red Shirts want an election, and they want democracy without meddling from other forces including the military, coups, etc. It's not that strange a thing to ask for.

Pheu Thai Party remains unfazed

Decline in Thaksin's popularity not worrisome because no polls ahead

Though many key Pheu Thai members conceded that most people did not approve of their boss's friendship with Cambodian PM Hun Sen, they don't seem to be worried and are not looking for any methods to rebuild this sagging popularity. Many of the followers seem to think it does not matter if there are no elections coming up.

"When it comes to an election, the voters would consider the government's achievements. But the election is far away because this government is likely to stay until the end or until the House is dissolved," a Pheu Thai source, who asked not to be named, said. "Thais forget easily. They will forget this soon."

In the scheme of things, the source said, Thaksin did not really lose. At least, he has a safe haven where the government cannot hound him.

Another key Pheu Thai member said the party did not need to adjust any of its strategies because there were no elections coming up.

"We have to see who in the long run gains or loses this game," he said.

Pheu Thai and Thaksin were making a desperate "do-or-die" attempt to stage a comeback, the source said, and even though their approval ratings are sagging, Pheu Thai is quite happy to take the risk as long as they can topple the Democrat government.

However, it is clear that Thaksin remains very influential in the party, the source said.

Sorry Winnie, democratic elections and reform are not what the red shirt leaders or Pheua Thai want. I think this article makes it quite clear that they don't expect an election to happen soon, and that they seem to not even care about that. The "obsession" as you have said, is still on Thaksin and the court decision on his money in December. This is probably why Hun Sen is on board as well, I'm sure Thaksin has made promises as to what he will do if he gets his money back.

The ongoing protest to begin at the end of the month is only to put pressure on those deciding the fate of the 76 billion. If they can't award it back to him, this will cause pressure to at least futher delay the final decision again. It's all the about the money.

I do agree however, that the red shirt supporters are primarily focused on democratic reform, and economic equality. The problem is that they buy into the propaganda that their leaders feed them, because they believe that only a pu yai with a lot of money and power can do anything, and they then hope for a trickledown of some form of concession for their loyalty. The idea of a leader from the people, for the people is lost on them, no matter how many of them wear Che Guevara T-shirts. It is sad that they are being exploited in this way, but not surprising.

[otherstuff1957]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 100,000 people WILL show up, if not at this rally, then at subsequent ones. However, the problem is still Thaksin. He is such a polarizing figure that many people who think a new general election is a good idea will be opposed to the rallies.

I doubt if this really will be the endgame, unless Thaksin has less money than he has indicated. The next month or so should be interesting.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Thaksin was never bothered by the courts being under political pressure

when it was HIS side applying that pressure and it was working.

When he wins all is fair and sunny lightness, when he loses it;s biased and unfair.

When someone shoves back, he cries foul.

Tough luck Doc. Can't have it both ways.

I completely agree as it pertains to Mr. Thaksin. However, the bigger pictures is that not having independent courts affects every Thai citizen. So as much as one can stick out one's tongue and say 'serves you right, dude' the reality is that everyone has to live with the situation. When justice and basic freedoms are lost or impeded on, everyone loses.

It seems that just about every other post I make is related to pointing out that there's more going on in the Thai world than Mr. T.

Edited November 18, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Steve2UK]

Thaksin was never bothered by the courts being under political pressure

when it was HIS side applying that pressure and it was working.

When he wins all is fair and sunny lightness, when he loses it;s biased and unfair.

When someone shoves back, he cries foul.

Tough luck Doc. Can't have it both ways.

"Can't have it both ways"? As I recall, just about every incoming Thai administration has initiated investigations (usually leading to charges) into members of the preceding administration (now opposition) becoming "unusually wealthy" - and thus "had it both ways". It's Thai political S.O.P.

Much as I dislike cliches....... TiT. As Hammered says, the losing side will always say it's "political interference".

[Meridian007]

It seems that just about every other post I make is related to pointing out that there's more going on in the Thai world than Mr. T.

I wish that were true, but right now he is playing chicken with the Dems, and that puts him into central focus. (Which I'm sure a megalomaniac like him must love)

This is why Red Siam broke off from the rest of the red shirts. They got fed up by everything being dominated by Thaksin's self-serving mandate. They were quickly quieted however, I guess money talks to idealists too.

[SpoliaOpima]

Who cares about Thaksin? Other than yourself of course?

One million Thai Rouge carrying portraits of Chairman Thaksin, that's who.

Edited November 18, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[SpoliaOpima]

Thaksin was never bothered by the courts being under political pressure

when it was HIS side applying that pressure and it was working.

When he wins all is fair and sunny lightness, when he loses it;s biased and unfair.

When someone shoves back, he cries foul.

Tough luck Doc. Can't have it both ways.

"Can't have it both ways"? As I recall, just about every incoming Thai administration has initiated investigations (usually leading to charges) into members of the preceding administration (now opposition) becoming "unusually wealthy" - and thus "had it both ways". It's Thai political S.O.P.

Much as I dislike cliches....... TiT. As Hammered says, the losing side will always say it's "political interference".

True.

[rixalex]

It seems that just about every other post I make is related to pointing out that there's more going on in the Thai world than Mr. T.

Come on Winnie. Have a bit more respect for others posters who know your posting history. Telling others they should spend more time focusing away from Thaksin is a little rich, to put it mildly.

So tell us, what nonsense have you read on Thaksin's Twitter site today?

[SpoliaOpima]

True "Democracy" at work here. I guess the other 50 million Thai people who can vote have no say! The "Red Shirts" have decided what is good for the country and they are right and evetryone else is wrong, even if they are not the majority.

What makes you arrive at that conclusion? The Red Shirts want elections. That means everyone gets to vote whichever way they want.

The reason they want elections is:

1. They feel that past "Red" leaning governments have been removed unjustly, and undemocratically through:

1a. Military Coup

1b. Courts that were under political influence, resulting in the removal of an elected government over matters as trivial as being in a cooking TV show, or because of faked evidence by bribed witnesses, or by new laws forced into place under the military junta government that were specifically designed to be able to selectively ban entire parties based on relatively minor irregularities.

2. They feel that Abhisit and the Democrat Party never received a mandate directly from the voters; rather he formed a government by coercing/enticing/bribing Newin's clan to defect to their side.

Anyway, that's their story, and their reasoning for wanting elections.

Spot On... agree

In that case, what's the hurry? Once the current term is up, there will be an election. Demonstrating to topple the government 'by New Year's Day' will accomplish nothing but further instability. Two wrongs don't make a right.

It's obvious that Col T, who is pulling the strings, is the one running out of time. He and his minions must at all costs avoid letting the Dems finish their term successfully.

If the Redskirts get their way, then there will simply be another lengthy round of protests and unrest. If the Reds *truly* stood for democracy, then they would wait for the next election. Simple.

Edited November 18, 2009 by SpoliaOpima

[h90]

I can't see this being over until elections are called. Whether Thaksin will retain the popular support, and political allies, don't know.

Why do you think it is is over after elections?

After elections

PTP government: yellow on the street

Any other government: reds on the street.

no matter if there is an election or not. No matter if the government is democratic or not.

[virtualtraveller]

There goes another tourist season down the drain.

When they don't get the numbers or public reaction they're aiming for, they'll resort to something radical like Songkran, draw the army in again, scare all the tourists away, and they still won't get their election. Stop me if you'd heard this story before...TIT

[angiud]

Winnie, to be a red t-shirt sympathizer, your avatar remember me more a yellow t-shirt supporter

[sabang]

The people around me in rural Ubon are basically apolitical, and to be honest I've only actually heard the name of Thaksin come up once in conversation, from a pro- Thaksin chap. I steered the conversation away. Personally, I'm not pro Thaksin but I think he did have some sound policies. His faults are well documented also.

Thaksin is used as a polarising point by politically motivated people of both 'pro' and 'anti' persuasions, but it seems to me that at ground level the popular disgruntlement is that three consecutive times now the popular vote has been overthrown, once by a military coup, once for the 'crime' of Samak accepting expenses for a televised cooking show, and then the subsequent 'judicial coup' resulting in the latest tacked together alliance. There is no 'Thaksin cult' that I'm aware of. I can't help feeling that Abhisit (whom I personally like) is a bit of a stooge in all of this- it seems that in the Halls of Parliament it is the Military/ Newin faction alliance that really calls the shots these days.

So at the end of the day, and I'm not guessing when or how, the only real way out will be when elections are called again. Of course there are all sorts of rumours behind the scenes but we can only guess at their veracity. Personally, I'm amazed that the Democrat Party is not doing more- especially in the North and North East- to cement a more meaningful regional support base. Elections will come one day, of that I think we can be reasonably assured, and it seems that mentally at least they look upon themselves as based in Bkk and the South, and requiring another political faction to form a national government. But the facts speak for themselves if you look at the electoral numbers-a slight majority of voters in the Nth East and (I think) North did not vote for 'Thaksin or proxies', whereas 48% of the popular vote in metro Bangkok did. So the real picture is a lot more complex than the stereotypes that abound.

Edited November 18, 2009 by sabang

[Dpolenz]

Same bs different day/year/government excetra.

[rixalex]

The people around me in rural Ubon are basically apolitical, <snipped>

Excellent post sabang.

Yes, you are correct, what is needed is elections.

But the timing of those elections should not be at the bequest of a group that at its rotted core is the fight for a fugitive, and the return of his power and money.

[Lunar]

One Million??

thats a lot of people on one area anyone plan on where the restrooms are?

Right.. 1 million is simply impossible. 100K would already be a major burden/disruption. I just hope that after Black Songkran we're not due for a Black December; let's see how far the military / government is willing to go.

Tell the redshirts to protest at Swampy & Donmueang. The 2 were the safest places to protest as Thai army won't interfere.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Winnie, to be a red t-shirt sympathizer, your avatar remember me more a yellow t-shirt supporter

Yeah, would you believe I changed it to Red for a while.. But then the Reds started talking and pulling such bullshit that I honestly didn't want to be in that camp unconditionally. I support some of the stuff the Reds want, and even a couple things the Yellows want, so decided to go back to my old avatar. For reference, this was the other one. It also looked ridiculous.

(Shows also that Thaivisa slightly tweaked the background color not too long ago.. The reason I look so good is because I blend into the page background so you don't see the square edges of the avatar image. )

It seems that just about every other post I make is related to pointing out that there's more going on in the Thai world than Mr. T.

Come on Winnie. Have a bit more respect for others posters who know your posting history. Telling others they should spend more time focusing away from Thaksin is a little rich, to put it mildly.

So tell us, what nonsense have you read on Thaksin's Twitter site today?

There wasn't much that was noteworthy to be honest. To frame this Twitter business: with mainstream news publications being so biased and reporting news one-sided, you're pretty much forced to look at alternative news sources to stay informed. There are a couple really interesting people reporting and commenting on things on some sites, as well as social media including Twitter and Facebook. (Especially Facebook, I'm not a huge Twitter fan)

Edited November 18, 2009 by WinnieTheKhwai

[NedKelly]

It is interesting that Mr T has camped himself next door.....maybe they really are confident of a change and a vacuum to be filled by the almighty from across the border. But why oh why at the start of the high tourist season when some things are just starting to perk up in the tourism industry........gees a mans gettin real tired of it all. Who needs terrorists when the locals stuff it up for themselves !

[Samuian]

well lucky it wasn't Noppadon who said there will be a million......

I have the feeling that this is some sort of an direct thread into a very particular direction, the man behind all this must be convinced about who is the one who owes him his demise!

His move to Cambodia, the "spy" story, shows how determined he is!

Yes he wants his money back and would suit him well to come back to power, but he lost the plot,

this won't happen, no matter what, those who wanted him gone, will insist that he has to stay out of it and agreed, it would be much,, much better for the country and the long term welfare of it's citizens!

Interesting what the hunger for power can do with a human being...