Farming Close To Thai Family

[anthoma]

Close to our ricepaddies we have one small river, one small canal and a pond. For long time i tried to find out if it could be profitable to pump water from these sources to the paddies and put a second harvest with rice. The water is almost at the same level as most of the paddies.

So this year i liked to try with one paddie (about 1 rai). Flood it with water, spray seeds, a little bit fertilizer and keep the paddie flooded and then se what expences and yield we got from that paddie. If proffitable i would maybe try wit 7-8 rai next drye season.

So yesterday we borrowed a pump and went to the farm and flooded the paddie. I took us about 2 hour to pump. We pumped from the small canal to the closest paddie.

Todag my GF's familie been up to our farm and pumped the canal empty because they liked to harvest the fish. So no we dont have any water left close to that paddie. They also say that they will go up tomorrow to empty the pond to harvest fish there to.

They all knew that i would like to do that experiment and they also see the flooded paddie this morning, but they just dont care. Well its my girlfriends land (bought with my money) so what can i say?

[aitch52]

You have my sympathy Anthona, as soon as you start to think outside of the box someone throws a spanner in the works. I don't think there is much you can say apart from trying to get your wife to explain what you are trying to do. They have probably been doing this for generations and assume they know better than you.

Good Luck

[dave_boo]

Cut off their money supply.

Seriously. The inlaws tried to do similar to me (I wanted corn planted and they put in cassava) so I made it clear that if they weren't going to listen to me I was going to return the favour when they needed a bit of cash.

And they will need it. Those Thais I know (most of them anyways--a very overgeneralistaion but you get the drift) are very poor planners and at some point there will be a request of funds.

I respect people, but if they will not treat me as an equal, especially when I am providing so much, they'll suffer for it.

It sounds a bit egocentric (my way or the highway), but any relationship is a give and take ordeal. I'm assuming you've worked for your money and are now trying to help those people out; admirable but if you lose everything in the process where are you?

[anthoma]

Last year i financed putting rice on 30 rai including my father in laws paddies. It cost med 70 000 bath and i said thousand times to them that they should not put sticky rice because of the price when selling. Did they care? No. Half of the paddies was sticky rice and they did not tell meg before we went to sell the shit. 5 bath pr kilo. I lost money and they did not get any profit from the work. I'm fed up with them.

I try to find new ways so we can make som money on our 70 rai. Ask questions but nobody knows ore they say that things are not possible. I ask them if they ever tried?

So i have to find out everything myself + i get some help from this forum but every time i try something i looks like they sabotasje me.

I told them long time ago that they not get any money for free from me. If they like to work with us, we use our land and i pay the excpences, but they dont bother.

[Maizefarmer]

What complete bastards ....... I'd give them a piece of mind if I was you, anthoma.

dave_boo has a really cool idea: tell them "ATM-farang no work while klong no have naam!" - see how they take to that!

On a more serious note, you didn;t by any chance do any calc's to try and establish the cost effectiveness of pumping water to increase/maximise rice cultivation. You say the water source and paddy are next to each other, and that the respective levels are much the same. Pumping water to increase rice yields is a fine line - get it right and yes, it can be worth it, get it wrong and it doesn't pay off.

Was this project against a background of any calculations, or were you just going to give it a go and see what happens?

If you have no calc's could I trouble you to share with me please, anthoma - what type of pump setup you were planning on doing this with i.e. diesel engine hp and rpm and pump model/type and/or rated pressure/volume (should be stamped on a little plate riveted to the pump body).

I've been collecting these figures now for about 4 years to draw up some x/y type graphs in an effort to establish some cut off points for the cost effectiveness of irrigating rice paddies to increase yields.

Thanks.

MF

[jubby]

Maybe you pumping water has just triggered some Neurons and given them an Idea to do the same in order to catch some fish and its not sabbotage at all.

If your lucky and indeed have enough water the Pond & canal will fill back up with water shortly anyway. If they don't then its unlikely you've enough water for a second crop anyway, So they could be doing you a favour.

Its just something they enjoy doing, I see them doing it near me. Diesel pump going all day to empty a pond . Lots of thai's sitting about in expectation of catching a few fish. No way the catch covers the cost of the Diesel and effort. Let them have there Fun and Chill a bit

Tell me I'm wrong tommorrow

[anthoma]

As i said, this dry season i only like to try with 1 rai to see how offen i have to pump to keep the paddie flooded at all time and to see how much yield we can get in 1 rai in dry season. . We borrowed a Honda gasolin pump from the village for 20 bath pr. day. I know that this way to pump is way to expencive but i dont like to invest in a dieselmachine before i learn more about this.

Today when family emptied the canal they used a huge steelpipe (4-5 meter) with a built in pump and they connected it to a two wheel tractor. We can not rely on family help (tractor)in the future so im shure if i will try on a bigger scale nest year i have to invest in a machine.

If i choose to do in a bigger scale next year and invest som money in this i sure would appreciate som help from you Maizenfarmer because i dont have a clue about this and i would not trust any advice from the family here.

The canal is small buth i choosed it because its only 2 meter from the canal to the paddie and since i only like to keep water in one paddy i think the canal would be enough. After flooding the paddy i see the level on the canal go down about 10 cm and today i can se that the canal was more than 1,5 meter deep . As i said, we also have a river on our land. Much bigger than the canal, but its about 100 meter from the river to the first paddie so its a little bit more difficult to take water from there. Off course if we next year will try with 10 rai we will use water from the river.

I also think we can benefit from pumping water in main harvest. Some of our paddies did'nt get flooded before in july this year. We put seed i early may. The result was alot of weed in the paddies and some of the paddies we almost not get any rice. So if we can pump water into the paddies that not get flooded from raining, maybe we can get a better harvest. This year we just spayed the seed to do it cheap but the harvest was only 150 kg pr rai. It should be possible to do better than that even witt spraying the seeds.

I will go up to the farm tomorrow to see if water came back in the canal. We not have rain here now for at least 3 weeks so the aerea starting to get very dry.

[Somrak]

As i said, this dry season i only like to try with 1 rai to see how offen i have to pump to keep the paddie flooded at all time and to see how much yield we can get in 1 rai in dry season. I will go up to the farm tomorrow to see if water came back in the canal.

We not have rain here now for at least 3 weeks so the aerea starting to get very dry.

And may there will be no rain for the next month too.

I did like, that my wife did the same kind of sings. 2end harvest, other rice, other crops in the "offseason",.....

Only change the rice did work.

About this i think it is good to test new ideas on a smal scale as you like to do.

The farmers do some things not only about they don't know it, they have also a lot of experience in farming.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Somrak

[Lickey]

About3 years ago an Aussie fella & his mrs called at our Salon, I got chatting with him, he was looking for farming land, about 30rai, my Mrs knew of some and offered to show him later in the afternoon, he agreed, and of we went to look at the for sale stuff around Namsom, he said he need a river,concrete road and electricity, Mrs found a few places and we went to view, on a trek through one of the farms, i asked him where his Mrs lived, he said about 15ks away, I asked if her family had land? he replied yes, they do, BUT, i want our land to do what i want, so i think 15 ks is a CONVENIENT distance away from them, Good thinking on his behalf, bit late for the OP, but something for newcomers to think about i reckon,

Cheers, Lickey,,

[D-MAX]

Last year i financed putting rice on 30 rai including my father in laws paddies. It cost med 70 000 bath and i said thousand times to them that they should not put sticky rice because of the price when selling. Did they care? No. Half of the paddies was sticky rice and they did not tell meg before we went to sell the shit. 5 bath pr kilo. I lost money and they did not get any profit from the work. I'm fed up with them.

I try to find new ways so we can make som money on our 70 rai. Ask questions but nobody knows ore they say that things are not possible. I ask them if they ever tried?

So i have to find out everything myself + i get some help from this forum but every time i try something i looks like they sabotasje me.

I told them long time ago that they not get any money for free from me. If they like to work with us, we use our land and i pay the excpences, but they dont bother.

We have about 70 rai of wich 60 is used for rice farming.

10 rai is used for fishponds, waterstorage, garden and house.

For the first crop we use water from the irrigation canal.

For the second crop we use water from the ponds.

Then there is stil water left for about half a crop.

Every year we harvest around 150 rai rice at a profit of about 800 to 1200 baht a rai.

Profit is after cost for - ploughing 2x each harvest (tractor hire), fertilizer 2x , diesel for pumping, harvestingmachine (hire)

Labour cost are not included.

This operation is run by my brother in law.

90% of labour is done by himself.

Last April he bought a Kubota 4wheel drive tractor (34 hp)

He says that the tractor is doing really good.

he is also ploughing for other farmers for 350 to 400 bath a rai.

He is doing quit well for a thai farmer.

But that is because he doesn't pay rent for the land and because I suplied the cash for the innitial startup costs.

In return we have a nice well kept after place in the middle of nature for our vacations and family gatherings.

[anthoma]

Tonight the family came together to eat fish harvested from the pond on our property. 2 days ago they emptied the canal and today they emptied the pond. So my little experiment flooding 1 rai to put rice is probably over ore i have to find a cheap way to led the water from the river to the nearest paddie (100 m). The paddie we already flooded we just can forget. To far from the river. I se today after 3 days its still flooded but we dont have water there to flood again. Off course if we like to do this on a bigger scale we have to take from the river, but this year i only liked to try with 1 rai to see how it works without using to much money on the experiment.

Another argument they have for not putting second crop here is that you will be the only one having rice on that time and the birds and grasshoppers will come to the farm and eat the crop. Maybe that can be a problem but that was one of the things i liked to find out with my little experiment, but they dont even let me try.

Edited November 19, 2009 by anthoma

[Lickey]

70 rai and you could not do what you wanted on 1 rai, I think 1 rai of rice looks after 1 family member a year? give them whatever,rent out the rest and move away, at a convinent distance, of course,your wifes feelings come into the mix, but surely she can see you are not happy,

If you are still working or have a good pension, then rice,sugar cane or cassava, is usually a break-even option, from what ive learnt in the 3 years ive lived here permantly is that Thais have no conception of money, unbeknown to my mrs i kept a book on what it cost to do 9rai of cassava, inclusive, it cost 33,000, [ok, the world economy went badly wrong] but mrs was estatic that we got 15,000 bht after 11 months??????? why was that i hear you ask, well, she didnt know how much we spent on getting the stuff in the ground, looking after it, and the harvest, [bit like our neighbour last week, spent 4k bht on the lotto, won 1k, and had a party for all his mates??]

For me, long term crops are not on my agenda, because once the crop is harvested, the money should see you through to the next seasons harvest, the ground does nothing,because the thais are waiting for rain, and plant the new crop, if you want to live like a thai farmer, this is fine, but if you want UBC tv and internet, you need to make a profit to cover the price ect, Gary A started a topic some months ago titled, Think you can make money farming in Thailand? Think again!!!!! he is quite right, farming is a hobby for us retirees, it gives us something to do, with our pension money ect,

The mrs fruit farm was establised about 22 years ago by her mum & dad,it was done in a way that there would be different fruit ready every month, this provided an income or food every month, the whole 40 rai is Nor Sor Sam, so in extreme difficulties, a part could be sold of at the top going price,

Anthoma, in your case, [and if you have got the money] move away to your own piece of paradise, dont let the family rule you,,

Lickey,,

[anthoma]

Luckily my life in Thailand does not depend on any income from farming althoug i would'nt mind to get some 50-100K income (bath) pr year so we could go for an extra holliday.

Its more like a hobby and to have something to do. I'm "only" 51 years old and to sit all day and have notting to do is very booring. We have 20 rai with cashewnuttrees 5 years old and 20 rai with palmoils only 1 years old. Me and my wife take care of these 40 rai by ourselves. Cutting grass, spraying herbicide and put fertilizer. I very much enjoy to see that our palmoils grows faster than on the neighbourfarm. That our cashewnuttrees looks good and starting now to give us some harvest.

But now when drye season starts, finish harvest the rice, we suddenly have notting to do. Notting grows, not even weeds. I wake up in the morning thinking about what to do today. Thats why i'm thinking about growing something in drye season since we have (ore at least had) watersources on our farm.

My wife is fed up struggeling with here family too and we many times talked about moving away, but what about our house. Althoug its not a palace i dont thing any of the thais in our village can afford to pay a fair price for it, and what about our 70 rai of land? Just leave it to the family and let them get that pleasure? So we kind of stuck here and we have to try to do the best of it.

[finner]

Anthoma, maybe any water you have in the dry season would be better used for irrigating your oil palms. They are only 1 yr old now but will take a lot more as they grow. If the water is too far away, remember me, I'm the guy who bought the excavator. What for? We just dug a big "bo nam" about 3M deep near our oil palms and the the thing never goes dry. Just a 3 inch pump to fill the channels that we dug along the tree system once or twice a week. If you have a river nearby you may not have to dig too far.

Don't know where they came from but the "bo nam" is full of fish now and is officially a "bo pla". I've actually seen fish walking on the ground to get to the pond. Don't laugh, I've seen it!

Edited November 20, 2009 by finner

[JatujakShopper]

Last year i financed putting rice on 30 rai including my father in laws paddies. It cost med 70 000 bath and i said thousand times to them that they should not put sticky rice because of the price when selling. Did they care? No. Half of the paddies was sticky rice and they did not tell meg before we went to sell the shit. 5 bath pr kilo. I lost money and they did not get any profit from the work. I'm fed up with them.

I try to find new ways so we can make som money on our 70 rai. Ask questions but nobody knows ore they say that things are not possible. I ask them if they ever tried?

So i have to find out everything myself + i get some help from this forum but every time i try something i looks like they sabotasje me.

I told them long time ago that they not get any money for free from me. If they like to work with us, we use our land and i pay the excpences, but they dont bother.

Tough break, sorry to hear of your troubles. Stop the flow of money to these idiots. Put up a tall fence and lock the gate to keep the in-laws out.

[slapout]

I have about come to the conclusion that the only way to finance any business including farming, is to require the participants/partners to put cash into the venture also. Granted if they supply the labor their investment can be somewhat less but if they want to do what they decide, when they decide, they need to be aware that they have money to lose. Many of the farmers do not seem to consider their labor as worth much, unless they are being paid by someone else, and this is an expense that you seldom see the farmers consider at the end of the season. There are some exceptions but they seem to be fast disappearing.

[lannarebirth]

Assuming you can stop the inlaws from draining the canal, and since it is m/l the same level as your paddy, could you not use siphon tubes to irrigate rather than pump the water?

[anthoma]

Many good advices here. As I said i just like to try with 1 rai this year to see if the locals are right about the birds and the gresshoppers. I will get some experience about how much water i need, and i will se what kind of yield i can expect. I like to do this as cheap and simple as possible not to loose alot of money on my experiment. But if we like to do on bigger scale next year i have to look closer to what options we have to distribute the water to the paddies.

I was also thinking about using the water for irrigating the palm oils. The pond we have is in the bottom of the palmoilfarm. That farm is a little bit upphill and the top of the farm is about 200 meter from the pond and goes all the way down to this pond. I just think that digging kilometers with canals to all these trees have to be a very big jobb. Did you do this by hand finner? Then we certanli will have something to do the next months . By the way, do you think it will work with canals to the trees since the land is a little bit downhill? I just just afraid the the water will run in the canals and than go back to the pond again?

We are a little bit stuck here now. 3 weeks ago we hired at tractor to plough the ricepaddies and som other work too. He came 2 days, then he didnt show up. After 3 days my wife went to ask him if he didnt like to finnish. He said h would come next day. He came 1 day and then he dissapeared again and since we not see him (he got paid every day). So we hired another tractor and he promissed to come 2 days ago but he still not showed up. So this i frustrating.

Today I went to the nearest Kubota shop an looked at at new 24 HP 4WD. Maybe i will buy so i dont have to depend on other people but can do most of the work myself. We need tractor for plouging ricepaddies and cassavafarm, pumping water, cleaning the palmoil and cashewnutfarm, and for transport when we start to harvest palmoils in 2-3 years.

Edited November 20, 2009 by anthoma

[kikoman]

I do not know much about rice farming, but living in a rice farming village for going on 4 years I have seen the amount of labor, that goes into rice farming. Here the farmers harvest two crops of rice per year and know what the cost of their operation is and how much profit they get per Rai/ crop. They do not count in labor cost because it is their way of life.

They spent most of their time in the fields, they sleep at the fields during the time, during the rainy season they have to pump the water out of the fields. They have to include labor cost for out side labor to throw rice seed in the fields at 100 baht for 1/2 day of work.

Before you get to uppity with the tillers of the land and fences and stuff, posters that have given you suggestion on what actions to take . I would look into some legal aspects that may raise their ugly head, who owns the water rights, do you have a work permit, legally a Thai women married to a falang have no legal right to own land in her married name, because , if she passes away, you as her husband may not inherit the land!

I am not a lawyer or well versed on Thai law , I observe many things that happen in my village, including a court case that involved my brother in law that owns land fronting a stream, that was cut off from the water supply because he did not own the water rights. He filed a claim in court and the person that owned the rights had to allow him access to the water, because of a grandfather clause, but the court also ruled that he must pay for the water. Now he has another expense for his crop.

Also Thais in my village buy fish hatch-ling and place them in their fields, at harvest time the rice and fish are harvested at the same time the fish are cooked and included in the harvest offering to Buddha, for the harvest the rest are dried and salted for later use.

Also do not take Thai actions as a personal affront ,It may only be their traditional way of doing things, that have worked for them for centuries.

Again, only my opinion, have no legal knowledge or background in Thai Law,

Good luck!

Cheers:

[slapout]

kikoman; Maybe you should read back from the beginning to determine that the girlfriend owns the land (not wife), work permits do not seem to be a requirement for many farang in Thailand (police volunteer, farmers, volunteer teachers etc). Your statement that a "Thai woman married to a farang has no legal right to own land" is not correct. To take offense to someone not doing as they were instructed in this case has nothing to do with centuries of tradition. Most of the advice given on the farming sector has utilized much more than 4 years experience as an observer in the village. Thai law is readily avaliable for you and any one who has a real interest to read and has even been by several TV members. best regards.

[kikoman]

kikoman; Maybe you should read back from the beginning to determine that the girlfriend owns the land (not wife), work permits do not seem to be a requirement for many farang in Thailand (police volunteer, farmers, volunteer teachers etc). Your statement that a "Thai woman married to a farang has no legal right to own land" is not correct. To take offense to someone not doing as they were instructed in this case has nothing to do with centuries of tradition. Most of the advice given on the farming sector has utilized much more than 4 years experience as an observer in the village. Thai law is readily avaliable for you and any one who has a real interest to read and has even been by several TV members. best regards.

I did as you suggested, At the top of the post he refers to his girlfriend owning the land!

In his post dated 11-20 -2009 and 11-21-09 he refers to her in both posts as "My Wife", maybe you should also read back!

Work permits are required for a falang to do any type of work in Thailand. Many people do work without a permit because no one knows they are working. My Statement was if you chose the path of confrontation, someone in the village may report you!

Even volunteers working on the Wave that hit Thailand were required by the authorities to have work permits, until overruled by higher authorities.

When I went with my girl friend to purchase her land at the land office , I was asked to sign a statement ( Which I did) that I had no interest in the land purchase before they allowed her to acquire the land! As you say the law is readily available.

In the last few months there was a statement from the government that any nominee person that purchased land with a falang involved must prove that the funds that the purchase was made with were their own funds, which included wife's and girl friends.

I stand by my opinion , As I stated I am not a legal expert on Thai law. In my 9 years in Thailand, I have read Thai law that applies to my personal situation. Best Regards !

Cheers: