Thailand Elite Members

[soi41]

Hate to say it: But I told you !

[alyx]

Yes, but as you may not know, I did start this thread. And the title is "better ready than sorry" meaning that I was/am worried about the situation

At least I will not die ignorant: I know now that being ready may not prevent from being sorry....lol

Edited January 11, 2012 by alyx

[alyx]

I can't believe how blind (stupid) I have been......

The company may terminate the program at any given time, equalling to the IMMEDIATE cancellation of the membership and the company will refund the remaining membership fee (IF ANY) to the member within 30 days after the card has been returned to the company, less the following balances (IF ANY) and costs

1) The penalty charge and/or outstanding fees (IF ANY) .......whatever that is

2) THE COST OF PRIVILEGES USED BY THE MEMBER

For those who are into bondage it is a trip to heaven

O, I almost forgot, I found this note in the brochure entitled "Experience the finest"

Edited January 11, 2012 by alyx

[leoalex]

if it was not in agreement which we have signed, it not matter.

looks like them don't know about visa. i got one answer, you got another, now also information what them don't know.

anyway, not a good news. it a classic ponzi scheme.

Edited January 11, 2012 by leoalex

[leoalex]

anyway, is in thailand it was in news or not? such news in us/europe/asia can make investors/business owners worry.

[KoreaElte]

I am back from holidays and find this survey. Looks like they have run out of excuses / ways to delay the inevitable.

I will seek legal advice on Monday but I can already imagine what the outcome will be.

The issue is this:

Our contracts are between us and a private company. Not the Thai government. That company is now folding. Actually getting any money back will be tough. And getting any visa assistance or courtesies from a dying, bankrupt company is a long shot, too.

Monday afternoon I will have more clarity on this. In the meantime I did not respond to the survey because I do not want to prejudice my legal options.

For someone under 50 who doesn't think it's a good idea to get married, TE was a good concept. It's a shame it was mis-managed and corrupt.

[leoalex]

at temembers private members area was added some important information.

KoreaElte: but how private company can offer special type lifetime visa? and offer before right to land ownership? It a easy to see this connection.

Edited January 11, 2012 by leoalex

[smallbear]

I strongly recommend that all members consider raising an official complaint with the Office of the Consumer Protection Board, whose web address is ocpb go th However, it may be that members need to wait until it becomes official that Thailand Elite is withdrawing the benefits members paid for. At present, to a large extent, services are still available.

I understand from acquaintances who used the OCPB to excellent effect against a corporation, that the Board is powerful, protects the interests of all, irrespective of nationality and has powers which it can exercise over companies, service providers and others. The Board has the power to arbitrate between the consumer and the organisation and does this through face-to-face meetings. The outcome was very positive. Furthermore, the Board operates under a very strongly written consumer law, which has been well thought out and serves the interests of consumers.

There is a form for foreigners... If you click on "Complaint Form" at the top-right, it will take you to a login page. However, just click Complaint Form Foreigner Only and it will download a PDF in English, which you can submit. It is attached with this post also. I recommend, given some of the members' examples of English on this forum that the form is completed not necessarily by a legal professional but at least someone who can interpret the claims of the Thailand Elite programme and convey these eloquently in a form which can add weight to the member's claim.

To add a comment regarding one of the member's posts about a potential claim being unsuccessful against the Thailand Elite Company because it is not part of the Thai Government, please note that the Company is funded by TAT, the Tourist Authority of Thailand and in any case, benefited from the backing of Government when it was promoted.

I hope this helps and that all members who care to do so, exercise their rights and do not assume that as foreigners they will be immediately disadvantaged.

[smallbear]

Here is the OCPB form.

ComplaintFormForForeignerOnly_081254.pdf

[alyx]

Say, smallbear, nice to find some people with sound advice, and for once not idiotically angry at a blown out of proprortion Members'status if any

I should add that your remarks are spot on but, from what I have just read, this board reports directly to the Governmemt, doesn't it?

Edited January 12, 2012 by alyx

[duan]

If my memory serves me correct I recall that at the time the cabinet was considering their options with regard to a disposal of TEC they passed a resolution changing the law in relation to the TE visa linking it to the life of each member as opposed to the life of TEC. I also recall seeing an article from Sunbelt confirming that this amendment had gone through all necessary legal hoops and been put on the statute books.Due to my limited computer skills I have been unable to verify the position. Whilst I appreciate that the current or any future government can change the law at anytime and may do so when they wind up TEC surely if this is the case it strengthens any negotiating position we may have.

Can someone please post a link to Sunbelts confirmation of this legislation?

[alyx]

Never heard of this and, honestly I doubt it, as this is the main demand of the members I know, everyone being disappointed in a possible cancellation of this privilege

[humbug]

as duan has stated, i also remember this, as it was stated by a sunbelt asia lawyer on this subject on thaivisa and it was then posted in the royal gazette to become officially a law or something along those lines, so as the sunbelt lawyer at the time had access to information that very few would gain the same access too, would it be possible that the law is still active or they passed a new resolution to abandon this law and we just had no notification of it

i also dont think that customer service staff manning the callcentre will know about the visas etc, if as some state it could be cancelled then what happens to the visa already in the passport if it say expires in one year or 2 years, would be the same as if you have a work permit and then leave the job so the permit instantly is cancelled or would they still allow extensions up unitl the expiry of the 5 year visa in your passport and no longer allow re-newels

there really is alot of unaswered topics here and if there is alaw still active on the 5 year visa then what happens to that law

[KoreaElte]

I had my legal briefing today and it was confirmed that consumer protection law will apply, sort of as smallbear has suggested.

This is good news, because the consumer protection law is quite well written and packs a bit of a punch.

I used it to "win" out of court, an 8M baht dispute last year and relatively quickly, too (3 months from when I engaged my lawyers until I had a bank draft in hand). I say "win" with quotation marks because it never went to court as such. The other party played hardball and stuck to their guns but when they saw we were dead serious they settled at the pre-trial arbitration hearing which you can get scheduled fairly quickly.

My guys reckon that we have not much hope of "forcing" a permanent visa out of them. Maybe one last 5 year extension... But they don't believe it feasible that we will get PR or that a new visa class is going to be created for ex-TE members.

I shall look for other visa options once things get a bit clearer. For now I will commence legal action and elicit a proper response from TE.

I remember seeing an article in a large english-speaking BKK-based newspaper half a year ago that said something like "Ten cardholders already plan to sue Thailand Privilege Card (TPC) for damages of up to 30 million baht each."

If you are one of those ten members, I wanna hear from you. The legal advice I have received says that whatever compensation / refund we can go for will be a lot less than 30 Million Baht

[smallbear]

I'm pleased to read the information from KoreaElite just now. I understand from a colleague in the legal profession that the consumer law is extremely well written.

It may be worth remembering also, that the Thailand Elite Programme is Government-backed, as the image below claims. This was copied from the Thailand Elite web site just a few moments ago. The web site appears to indicate that the programme is still open for new members.

Given the claim of Government-backing, this influences potential members' perception of the viability and stability of the programme.

[leoalex]

KoreaElte : nice idea! as soon we will have official explanation on tpc closure we can try to go this way. not sure if it will work or not, but it a good way. but if it not will work we can go into more legal if will not agree with tpc offer.

PS : i never heard of such news/members. need to check google if we can find their names/contacts.

Edited January 16, 2012 by leoalex

[leoalex]

sorry forget to mention also thanks to small bear! good idea, at least we can try it to see what can happen if it will require legal action later.

[alyx]

I had my legal briefing today and it was confirmed that consumer protection law will apply, sort of as smallbear has suggested.

This is good news, because the consumer protection law is quite well written and packs a bit of a punch.

I used it to "win" out of court, an 8M baht dispute last year and relatively quickly, too (3 months from when I engaged my lawyers until I had a bank draft in hand). I say "win" with quotation marks because it never went to court as such. The other party played hardball and stuck to their guns but when they saw we were dead serious they settled at the pre-trial arbitration hearing which you can get scheduled fairly quickly.

My guys reckon that we have not much hope of "forcing" a permanent visa out of them. Maybe one last 5 year extension... But they don't believe it feasible that we will get PR or that a new visa class is going to be created for ex-TE members.

I shall look for other visa options once things get a bit clearer. For now I will commence legal action and elicit a proper response from TE.

I remember seeing an article in a large english-speaking BKK-based newspaper half a year ago that said something like "Ten cardholders already plan to sue Thailand Privilege Card (TPC) for damages of up to 30 million baht each."

If you are one of those ten members, I wanna hear from you. The legal advice I have received says that whatever compensation / refund we can go for will be a lot less than 30 Million Baht

Hey

Regarding "For now I will commence legal action and elicit a proper response from TE"

Would you care to elaborate? Or do you mean that you will have legal assistance to draw a letter to the attention of the company asking for clarifications?

Edited January 17, 2012 by alyx

[alyx]

As for the ten members who does really care as these are not realistic figures and it is certainly not the goal to ask for more money, if any, than initially paid, wouldn't you agree?

[alyx]

Hey smallbear , I wonder why you are doing this, but it does make some of us feel less alone compared to the time when harsh comments where fusing towards members

Thank you for keeping track

[alyx]

I'm pleased to read the information from KoreaElite just now. I understand from a colleague in the legal profession that the consumer law is extremely well written.

It may be worth remembering also, that the Thailand Elite Programme is Government-backed, as the image below claims. This was copied from the Thailand Elite web site just a few moments ago. The web site appears to indicate that the programme is still open for new members.

Given the claim of Government-backing, this influences potential members' perception of the viability and stability of the programme.

As you said, it is a claim and the company is solely taking responsibility for this but when one knows its situation it won't get us too far although that is the reason why I engaged the program....because I could not believe that such a thing could happen given that I was relying on that assurance.

[luudee]

How can they just offer a "refund" ???

Because of the ThaiElite Visa, I have developed real estate here,

which I now won't be able to enjoy and might have to sell at a loss.

Will they reimburse me the 30++MB I have invested here as well ?

I think the most important thing is to understand what they CAN offer

and what they can not.

- Do they have the power to offer a life time visa when they cancel the program ?

- Do they have the power to offer a Residency Permit ?

- Will they reimburse me for money I invested here in the hopes to be able to stay

in Thailand ?

I am with KoreaElte, we need legal action now. We should join together and bombard

the with law suites and threats ....

Cheers,

rudi

[KoreaElte]

I am with KoreaElte, we need legal action now. We should join together and bombard

the with law suites and threats ....

Cheers,

rudi

Well law suits and threats is not what I had in mind. In my experience here it doesn't work very well to go that "American Route". My legal action this week will consist of having briefed my lawyers and having them initiate contact, show that I'm serious about *negotiating*. Local quirks and customs aside, we couldn't sue yet anyway. As long as I get picked up by AoT, ushered through immigration, the Elite call center number is being answered and my visa is accepted for entry at the borders, I have nothing to sue them about.

My goal is to stay ahead of the game and commence *negotiation* now. An actual lawsuit may never be necessary and even if we initiate one, chances are we will settle out of court.

My regards once more to smallbear for bringing up the excellent point of consumer protection law.

With regards to bankruptcy, it's possible here to do business with a firm, the firm goes bankrupt and you end up holding the baby, not recovering a single baht.

But this case it clearly a special case. Political background. Close ties to govenrment. The overall intention of the programme, etc. I am pretty sure we can reach settlement out of court but I am worried that we have no way of demanding any visa if they fold. If they find a way, good. If not, there's no way we can sue for a visa and expect to win. We could sue for damages if our visa gets canceled however that too would be an uphill battle and we would need to think about that on a case by case basis.

If you have another way to get a different visa, you should try to recover your money and let it be IMHO.

Despite the concept of "Class action lawsuits" not being applicable in Thailand, there is clearly benefit in approaching them as a group (bring legal costs down, too I supposed because a lot of the paperwork would be a cut and paste job once the overall thing has been written up).

If anyone is interested in moving ahead now, perhaps we could all get together (get my / someone else's lawyers in as well) to discuss options and see if we have a congruent strategy. In my case, I cannot afford to sit on the fence any longer. This thing has beeen brewing for years and time is money. You got to get your claims into the system before it's all gone.

[KoreaElte]

As for the ten members who does really care as these are not realistic figures and it is certainly not the goal to ask for more money, if any, than initially paid, wouldn't you agree?

I agree absolutely. You do need to over-shoot a little bit, thats a standard legal tactic, but saying "You screwed me for 1.5M and a visa, I demand you pay me 30M baht and give me a Thai passport" would be a little bit.... ridiculous Still i would love to talk to these members that newspaper talked about. I am sure it's just a poorly researched article.

Hey

Regarding "For now I will commence legal action and elicit a proper response from TE"

Would you care to elaborate? Or do you mean that you will have legal assistance to draw a letter to the attention of the company asking for clarifications?

Correct. That's all you can do at this stage. Initiate formal disccusion and negotiation. Calls and e-mails to the callcenter are a waste of time, yield no real intelligence and have no weight whatsoever. Registered mail on lawyers letterhead with clear demands and a "please respond by... or else" is the way to start.

It's too early to sue. And even if it comes to suing, our expectation is that it will be settled during arbitration.

[alyx]

Fine by me as I do not intend to sue to get any money back as I have always viewed the program as a club offering privileges ( actually I still do not understand why they have never charged any fee, small participation, for all services, that is how it works in every club of the kind: it would like being member of a rotary like club, drinking and having food for free whereas we are supposed to be treated as VIP such as having special access, preferred seat, special attention and maybe a discount) That being said, I do not want to be held responsible for that policy especially that, as I am sure it is the case for a majority of us, I have used very little of it set aside the visa

What I deplore here is that there is nobody representing some/all members seating at the table , table setting the member's fate through an arbitrary dissolution

Right now we do not need noise but a commun agreement

I know you already have my contact so feel free to do so

[leoalex]

Well law suits and threats is not what I had in mind. In my experience here it doesn't work very well to go that "American Route". My legal action this week will consist of having briefed my lawyers and having them initiate contact, show that I'm serious about *negotiating*. Local quirks and customs aside, we couldn't sue yet anyway. As long as I get picked up by AoT, ushered through immigration, the Elite call center number is being answered and my visa is accepted for entry at the borders, I have nothing to sue them about.

You are correct, it exactly what we need - clear final answers from tpc about company closure. what will offered us or not. Only after it we can do something.

My goal is to stay ahead of the game and commence *negotiation* now. An actual lawsuit may never be necessary and even if we initiate one, chances are we will settle out of court.

yes, we need to do it now. and research the ways how we can do something if we will unhappy on final offer from tpc.

My regards once more to smallbear for bringing up the excellent point of consumer protection law.

this at least can give us idea what can expect from legal action at thailand. check temembers private forum - here some ideas on this matter (in th or not in th).

[leoalex]

With regards to bankruptcy, it's possible here to do business with a firm, the firm goes bankrupt and you end up holding the baby, not recovering a single baht.

again very correct, we need to know what we have chances to win something or at least go futher negotiations with us.

But this case it clearly a special case. Political background. Close ties to govenrment. The overall intention of the programme, etc. I am pretty sure we can reach settlement out of court but I am worried that we have no way of demanding any visa if they fold. If they find a way, good. If not, there's no way we can sue for a visa and expect to win. We could sue for damages if our visa gets canceled however that too would be an uphill battle and we would need to think about that on a case by case basis.

If you have another way to get a different visa, you should try to recover your money and let it be IMHO.

check private forums for some current ideas.

Despite the concept of "Class action lawsuits" not being applicable in Thailand, there is clearly benefit in approaching them as a group (bring legal costs down, too I supposed because a lot of the paperwork would be a cut and paste job once the overall thing has been written up).

If anyone is interested in moving ahead now, perhaps we could all get together (get my / someone else's lawyers in as well) to discuss options and see if we have a congruent strategy. In my case, I cannot afford to sit on the fence any longer. This thing has beeen brewing for years and time is money. You got to get your claims into the system before it's all gone.

this thing also better to discuss in private place (and here already some ideas).

[leoalex]

How can they just offer a "refund" ???

Because of the ThaiElite Visa, I have developed real estate here,

which I now won't be able to enjoy and might have to sell at a loss.

Will they reimburse me the 30++MB I have invested here as well ?

I think the most important thing is to understand what they CAN offer

and what they can not.

- Do they have the power to offer a life time visa when they cancel the program ?

- Do they have the power to offer a Residency Permit ?

- Will they reimburse me for money I invested here in the hopes to be able to stay

in Thailand ?

I am with KoreaElte, we need legal action now. We should join together and bombard

the with law suites and threats ....

Cheers,

rudi

them not able to do such decisions, however them can forward it to peoples who able to make such decisions. It why we need to talk and write what we need visa and it can affect our positions on this matter if visa will grandfathered or switched to something similar (another type may be)

[leoalex]

Fine by me as I do not intend to sue to get any money back as I have always viewed the program as a club offering privileges ( actually I still do not understand why they have never charged any fee, small participation, for all services, that is how it works in every club of the kind: it would like being member of a rotary like club, drinking and having food for free whereas we are supposed to be treated as VIP such as having special access, preferred seat, special attention and maybe a discount) That being said, I do not want to be held responsible for that policy especially that, as I am sure it is the case for a majority of us, I have used very little of it set aside the visa

What I deplore here is that there is nobody representing some/all members seating at the table , table setting the member's fate through an arbitrary dissolution

Right now we do not need noise but a commun agreement

I know you already have my contact so feel free to do so

exactly, alyx! we need now to do researches, consult lawyers about possibly steps (what we can do and possibly to get from it) and best way to do if it will required. consumer protection law can be tryout to see better to do it in thailand or not. and we need to get some kind of community agreement (not legal - but to know what the actions/expectations of most of members on this matter and who can join such legal action if it will required)- what the best things we can do together if will not satisfied with tpc final offer (in exact amounts, visa, etc).

[trawler]

Did everyone get the new questionaire recently..........I notice the answers have gone from various to either refund a unspecified amount and cancel or keep going as current.........??????????Cheers

Edited February 23, 2012 by trawler