Thailand Elite Members

[the795Telite]

Hey

From what I have read and understood it seems that we have entered the last phase regarding the fate of TPC and ....its "2570" members

The future doesn't look that bright for at least 31% of its members as some sources have directly involved 795 of them, stating they had infringed the qualifications set by TPC, having used their status to remain in the Kingdom.

Checking their website and the "contract" issued at the time by the TPC I fail to see how this could be seen as a disqualification especially when it is the immigration who issue an extension/renewal of visa of 90 days, each time, for a mere 1900 baht

Another thing I do no get:they are talking about the remaining 1775 members as if each and everyone of them had paid the entrance fee, but it is common knowledge that some (I could not give any figures) were honorific guests of this program and certainly did not put a penny in it so....that means they are entitled to a refund, if any, when the time comes?

I don't think that the majority of the TE members read the Thai visa thread as they come from all walks of life and it seems that most of them are from Japan and Korea but surely it is worth a try to get in touch with each other asap to avoid a freezing cold shower in the days to come and also to be able to monitor as close as possible the evolution of the situation.

Thanks

PS: as you understand, this thread is aimed at discussing the outcome of a situation and plan ahead of it, so, please, do not start with the usual "you were told", "you have the money so it is peanuts to you" and whatever non productive interventions that the words "Thailand Elite" seem to ignite.

Regards

[the795Telite]

As from today, November the 18th, it has been decided by the cabinet to sell the Thailand Elite operator to a private company in an auction.

If there is no take over within three months the project will be terminated as the existing members will be transfered to the care of TAT and no new members will be accepted

[lopburi3]

As I recall membership was never open to residents of Thailand - from day one - and was so stated.

[the795Telite]

As I recall membership was never open to residents of Thailand - from day one - and was so stated.

Please define Residents (I should add that it is stated Permanent Resident: the way I read it, is that holders of PR, thai likewise, were not allowed to apply)

Do Non O / Non B / ED fall into that section as they remain in the Kingdom for long period of time?

Should I stress the fact that the Immigration have been involved in the renewal of member's visas, and therefore have renewed them whether or not the member has remained in the country since day 1, in 2003

[the795Telite]

To be a bit more precise:

The termination clause states that the the membership will be terminated if the member fails to maintain any of the qualifications set out in the Clause ..

Clause..

1) 2) 3) and 6) irrelevant to the case

4) The applicant / member is allowed to stay in Thailand in accordance with the immigraton laws or any related law of Thailand

5) The applicant / member is not a Thai citizen (or is not a permanet resident in Thailand)

[majorpacman]

why the hel_l would you want to be in "elite" club? To show that you have better pedigree then the regular people. I remeber that thaksin had the elite club member, it is now dead. Thailand really need to get over the "elite" things. elite = corrupt rich/politicans

[humbug]

sunbelt asia would have more answers on the visa status, as they started thai visa thread a while back on this programme stating that this government passed a law which has now been activated by being posted in the royal gazzette which allows all members to have their visa's renewed not for the lifetime of the programme but the lifetime of the individual.

if i remember it was the sunbelt asia lawyer who wrote the letter on that thread

[doggie888888]

As I recall membership was never open to residents of Thailand - from day one - and was so stated.

Please define Residents (I should add that it is stated Permanent Resident: the way I read it, is that holders of PR, thai likewise, were not allowed to apply)

Do Non O / Non B / ED fall into that section as they remain in the Kingdom for long period of time?

Should I stress the fact that the Immigration have been involved in the renewal of member's visas, and therefore have renewed them whether or not the member has remained in the country since day 1, in 2003

When I enquired, I was ENCOURAGED to join the program by TE managers (representatives of a company backed by The Royal Thai Government, no less) to sign up because "it is intended for people who want to stay here without exiting all the time; we want you to spend your money here"...I was and still am under 50. Consequently, I am surprised it is even an issue that TE members are staying here long term. I know of at least 1 member, who works for a large company. He joined because of the flexibility re travel and facilitation re work permits etc; as he is also resident here albeit on a work permit, has he breached the conditions?

Nowhere and at no time (at least when I joined) did the literature, advise, representations indicate that staying here on their Special Entry Visa would be a problem and I have been living here for last 2 years with full knowledge of Immigration (vis a vis their 90days reporting) and even of TE (via my advise to them of my "permanent home address" in Thailand). If there is now to be a differentiation between members who live here vs non resident members, it is TE who has breached their contract.

[RipperJack]

My situation is the same as doggie888888, I retired here, I fully declared my address as bangkok and status as retired and it was TE who marketed to me with full knowledge of this and approved the application inclusive of this information plus it was the Immigration Dept who issued the visa and every entry and extension since then with the same truthful information provided. It is insulting to see Thailand try to blame we foreign members for the financial losses that were largely caused from within TE and the government by TE management and the governments mal-administration.

We foreigners simply bought what the Thai government marketed, on the terms and conditions that were marketed to us. Similarly to if we had bought a Government Bond, we legitimately bought what the government marketed. Its not about we being "elite" or aligned with Thaksin or others, its a simple case of we innocent consumers being blamed for the dubious government and management issues that have deliberately eroded TE's financial reserves to the detriment of we members. Do the maths, it not hard to verify in a macro sense so don't blame members.

What happens next with TE will have a huge impact of the influential foreigners who help to attract and stabilise foreign investment and spending in Thailand. What are you doing to bring the real culprits to justice? Perhaps its just easier to blame foreigners instead of facing up to the real homeland issues but beware of biting the friendly hands that are trying to help feed you.

[alyx]

why the hel_l would you want to be in "elite" club? To show that you have better pedigree then the regular people. I remeber that thaksin had the elite club member, it is now dead. Thailand really need to get over the "elite" things. elite = corrupt rich/politicans

Sorry but this not the topic and really don't want to go down that lane once more

[alyx]

Actually, as it is stated in the OP, not only the members who think they fit that category, but also every single member, honorific and else, should get in touch with each other so an exchange of email addresses via PM is in order

[alyx]

As a matter of fact I started this thread and was not aware of the double nick name rule

[PeaceBlondie]

I'm not a Thai Elite member, so I won't comment. IMHO, neither should other non-Thai Elite members. Thank you.

[doggie888888]

PeaceBlondie aka Super Moderator, thank you very much indeed.

[p_brownstone]

I am not an Elite Cardholder but from previous Threads on this subject I am sure the 5 Year Visa was what attracted many, if not most, Members.

I am a Permanent Resident (note the capitals) of Thailand and always assumed that status prohibited me from joining.

If the earlier Quotation from the Terms and Conditions is exactly correct as:

"5) The applicant / member is not a Thai citizen (or is not a permanet resident in Thailand) "

and the words "permanent resident" do not have intital capitals it would appear there is a loophole in the regulations which the issuing Company is now going to exploit.

It seems very strange to offer a 5 year Visa, renewable without exiting the Country, and them complain when Cardmembers stay here full time however!

Patrick

[sambai]

I too have checked the terms and conditions from 2007 and it states...

"Any Member who resides in Thailand for more than 90 days continuously will have their visa endorsed and extended by the local immigration office at a fee of Bt1,900 per extension. The member is thus not required to leave Thailand."

In addition to this, there was marketing information provided, of which I remember the words, but do not have the promotional document in front of me at the moment... "effectively never needing to leave Thailand".

Of course, this is all typical Thai nonsense. The situation is that it is reported in Bangkok Post that some members have violated the terms and conditions. But clearly if those terms and conditions exist (which they certainly appear otherwise), then they are TPC's terms and conditions - not the Immigration department's. So if they violate TPC's terms and conditions, why do TPC state that it's possible to remain in Thailand?

Furthermore, why do TPC allow us to book a visit to the Immigration Department in Bangkok, if by so doing, we are violating the terms.

Well, the answer is simple - Thais don't usually consider things clearly and logically. It's just normal for this country I'm afraid. It sounds as if the inquiry yesterday has revealed that some members remain in Thailand all the time and that they didn't get their facts right - that this isn't allowed under the terms of the card.

I'm sure the facts will come out in the end, and probably nothing will change at all. But in the mean time, Thai Elite members would certainly do well to cooperate together and ensure that we are properly represented.

The more I think about this saga, the more ridiculous Thailand becomes to me. They set up a scheme and promote the visa advantages and the ability to remain in the country. Then the scheme falls down and they say you shoudn't have done that. Only in Thailand eh?

[doggie888888]

I too have checked the terms and conditions from 2007 and it states...

"Any Member who resides in Thailand for more than 90 days continuously will have their visa endorsed and extended by the local immigration office at a fee of Bt1,900 per extension. The member is thus not required to leave Thailand."

In addition to this, there was marketing information provided, of which I remember the words, but do not have the promotional document in front of me at the moment... "effectively never needing to leave Thailand".

Of course, this is all typical Thai nonsense. The situation is that it is reported in Bangkok Post that some members have violated the terms and conditions. But clearly if those terms and conditions exist (which they certainly appear otherwise), then they are TPC's terms and conditions - not the Immigration department's. So if they violate TPC's terms and conditions, why do TPC state that it's possible to remain in Thailand?

Furthermore, why do TPC allow us to book a visit to the Immigration Department in Bangkok, if by so doing, we are violating the terms.

Well, the answer is simple - Thais don't usually consider things clearly and logically. It's just normal for this country I'm afraid. It sounds as if the inquiry yesterday has revealed that some members remain in Thailand all the time and that they didn't get their facts right - that this isn't allowed under the terms of the card.

I'm sure the facts will come out in the end, and probably nothing will change at all. But in the mean time, Thai Elite members would certainly do well to cooperate together and ensure that we are properly represented.

The more I think about this saga, the more ridiculous Thailand becomes to me. They set up a scheme and promote the visa advantages and the ability to remain in the country. Then the scheme falls down and they say you shoudn't have done that. Only in Thailand eh?

Keep every piece of email, document, brochure that you have!!! It's all evidence that you have been misrepresented to by a government backed company.

[Abrak]

To be honest I do think that a high number of Permanent Residents did join the club. Despite not being allowed to , TE was happy for them to join. I am certainly one of those. If the TE comes crumbling down, I do not expect to get a penny. I have received much reward in the past and I was not theoretically allowed to qualify.

I do not really think that TE misrepresented it self - as it was purely a Thaksin led scheme to promote highend tourists. I in no way misrepresented myself as being anything other than a PR. I have no problem, if upon its demise, 'compensation' is only paid to those who should have qualified for the scheme in the first place.

[humbug]

the trouble with this situation is that members are having to scour through two articles written in 2 publications, when the sunbelt asia lawyer wrote about the new law on 5 year visas none of these publications printed this info and as such members would be left in the dark on what was happening with the new law on 5 year visas.

this is all specualtion but i presume when this government produced a cabinet resolution this year for the renewal of all 5 year visa for the members lifetime not the programme's lifetime then they already planned this manoeurvre of trying to lose all the other perks and excess staff needed to cover those perks on the programme but keep the cheapest and most importartant 5 year visa.

as for the subject of members staying in thailand, i wouldnt read too much into that, as it isnt illegal to renew your visa every 90 days, maybe someone is trying a thai trick to silence dissent amongst members

if the TAT takes over then for the members it will probably be for just taking calls with simple questions regarding renewal of visas or staying in thailand, without any new members and priviledges then this would be very cheap.

the other option going private could then affect the ongoing membership, as the new operation would then either have to introduce cheaper visa lifestyle programmes to attract new members and then to charge existing members certain fees to keep the new operation in profit.

its all specualtion at present but i hope the sunbelt asia lawyer has some news on the legal aspects of the 5 year visa law passed this year on what happens if the programme goes into private hands or kept with the TAT, will the government have to pass a new law regarding this?

[alyx]

The fact remains that members need to be acquainted

I have written to the members whom I have the address (a lot of messages came back as the address was not active anymore), some haven't answered yet and the rest were not aware of the situation

In the answers I have got, apart from the obvious disbielief in such a situation and the surprise to learn what was going on in Thailand regarding the future of the company, I really have got mixed feelings: in particular a couple of members who state they do not want anything to do with the country, cancelling their plan to invest and to retire in the Kingdom, prefering malaisia and Hk where their money is worth the number written on the notes, other are willing to meet to find a solution.

It is true that these are only speculations based on two (contradictory) articles from the two main English speaking newspapers and it is also true that I have not seen the Gazette but the facts are here: the TPC is up for an auction within three months and these news were also published by a Thai newspaper where it explains at length what we already know except that King Power is a potential bidder and it makes reference to people having obtained their membership card in an undelicate way

[sambai]

To be honest I do think that a high number of Permanent Residents did join the club.

Can you confirm please, Abrak, if you're saying that you have the offical PR status (Permanent Residency status) with an 'alien book', or just simply that you have been staying in Thailand permanently.

This would help to clarify the situation for me here.

[alyx]

To be honest I do think that a high number of Permanent Residents did join the club.

Can you confirm please, Abrak, if you're saying that you have the offical PR status (Permanent Residency status) with an 'alien book', or just simply that you have been staying in Thailand permanently.

This would help to clarify the situation for me here.

I am sure that it is what Abrak means and from what I have read in the Thai Newspapers it is the same kind of reference

If you PM me I will let you know what I have been told over the phone today

I remind you that it would be a good thing to get in touch with all members as a lone cowboy will only pee against the wind

[humbug]

i agree that those 2 publications have a mix of truth and bullet points of previous articles on this programme mixed together in a shambolic fashion.

the facts remain this government probably planned this and thats why they allowed the new law on 5 years visa to be passed this year, for anyone who wants to know the ins and outs of that law then the lawyer at sunbelt asia would be the best bet, this is also not an advert for sunbelt but there is nothing coming out here or in the papers which allows members to really grasp what is going on behind the scenes like sunbelt or other such persons on this programme can detail.

as for the auction, well do you really want to start paying more fees to have a private operator or just keep the 5 year visa for life and have TAT run the show?

and what happens maybe next year with a new election and new government who are favourable to this programme?

after all the one thing the thai democrats are famed for are slow beurocratic solutions which take years to be pushed through!

[leoalex]

I think we (members) need now to

1. be sure what visa will lifetime

2. ask for compensation about losted priviledges. (which i really not used except visa, airport meeting & taxi).

I not have any idea why tpc want to sell this company and who will want to buy it (company with debts only). It will not important, because will losted goverment priviledges - only one real benefits from this program.

[alyx]

he hunbug

are you a member?

[Rockefeller]

The math doesn't add up, but maybe it never does on this thing. They say 2.39 billion baht is to be refunded to members should the program be cancelled. Keep in mind most members signed up when dues were 1 million baht and the contract states cancellation is membership fee minus services used.

If 2570 total members are refunded then the average payout is 930,000 baht. This sounds too high since surely members have used more than 70K in privileges on average. If only the 1775 "legitimate" members are refunded excluding the 795 accused of residing in Thailand in an alleged violation of the contract then the average refund is 1.35 million per member. Such a payout is higher than the membership fee which is inconsistent with the contract. So who is the 2.39 billion really going to?

As a member I am concerned over the announcements being made in the press vindicating members for the demise of TPC. Meanwhile TPC has had nothing to say to us regarding the recent news releases. The Bangkok Post articles are the most thorough information source I have received thus far. I would really appreciate it if anyone can please post or PM me any information during this difficult time and would be happy to reciprocate.

[alyx]

Hey Rockfeller

The time is not for the maths (by the way if the 795 members, which supposedly have purchased the card while being a permanent resident or have become one since - from what I understand it is not about people staying in the Kingdom on their Elite visa, mind you this might change again - the balance would not be added to the refund, if any, of the remaining member

As for how much each member has spent I guess you would be surprised to know that a few of them have used near to nothing of the privileges, for one because they stay abroad and come on business trip here and have no time to indulge in it, and also because the one staying here have taken this card for the visa , not for the massage and golf. Of course some have made the use of all the advantages for more than what they paid but after all it is their rights. To put an end to this math matter, when the time comes, the newspapers won't be doing it, so wait and see to know about it

Let's just get in touch and try to find as much informations as possible: all we know now is that a bidding is out, it has to be dealt with before the 20th of February (give or take a couple of days), if no buyer is interested (why should they?) it will all go to the TAT (new president since yesterday I believe) who will then stop all new comer and do whatever (we will know then)

The fact is that nobody is able to confirm the visa thing, which is of high interest to a lot of members on this site, as for the other they do not seem to care about that, nor the status of the 705 members.

[grantbkk]

To begin, I am not an Elite Card holder. However, I have followed the saga since the beginning when the first cards were handed out gratis at the APEC event in October 2003. I did consider the card simply for the no hassle 5 year renewable visa. Sorry to those who think that you should have a Thai Elite Card to post on this thread. Perhaps they can start their own website and can be truly elite.

I procrastinated and watched the privileges decline and thought the program should have been scrapped by 2005. I consider myself privileged for not buying into the program. While all the blame is being foisted on the PM that created Thai Elite, he hasn't been in power since 2006. The billion plus Baht that have been lost on the program cannot simply be attributed to a former government. Like a lot of Thai business with ties to the government the corruption must have been epic. The management's failings in marketing could be an entire semester for some graduate course. Did anyone see one spot on TV or in print somewhere that didn't elicit a smile and a shake of the head.

In the end I think the worst that will happen is that the program will be dissolved and the card holder's money will be returned. The best thing that can happen is that the program will canceled, the card holder will be returned his investment and he will get a lifetime visa. This is a public relations disaster involving investor/business types that Thailand want to cater to.

Subsequent governments, albeit short lived ones, could have killed this turkey anytime after the coup in 2006. Amazing Thailand is becoming Burma with Electricity.

[alyx]

Hey Grant

Thanks for the insight

Nobody said nor thinks that you cannot post as a non member. Peaceblondie rightly issued a warning to the non members who would be tempted to post unrelated to the topic as it has happened every time Thailand Elite has been on stage, bashing at members for believing themselves ELITE (which is far from being the truth but one can stop anyone from resenting the members for whatever reason/pretext)

Any constructive advice or information is needed

We all know what has happened but what worries members is the outcome of it. Trust me, some of them have been on a roller coaster since day one after they had bought their membership: they need peace of mind, after all they have paid for a service, I am talking about the visa, as for the other advantages most haven't used them and, as in any club, they would be happy to participate if they were to play golf or any other hobby.

[alyx]

The math doesn't add up, but maybe it never does on this thing. They say 2.39 billion baht is to be refunded to members should the program be cancelled. Keep in mind most members signed up when dues were 1 million baht and the contract states cancellation is membership fee minus services used.

If 2570 total members are refunded then the average payout is 930,000 baht. This sounds too high since surely members have used more than 70K in privileges on average. If only the 1775 "legitimate" members are refunded excluding the 795 accused of residing in Thailand in an alleged violation of the contract then the average refund is 1.35 million per member. Such a payout is higher than the membership fee which is inconsistent with the contract. So who is the 2.39 billion really going to?

As a member I am concerned over the announcements being made in the press vindicating members for the demise of TPC. Meanwhile TPC has had nothing to say to us regarding the recent news releases. The Bangkok Post articles are the most thorough information source I have received thus far. I would really appreciate it if anyone can please post or PM me any information during this difficult time and would be happy to reciprocate.

hey rockfeller PM your email

Thanks