Red Shirt Rally November 29

[Insight]

Will Jatuporn still host Truth Today?

[hammered]

Will Jatuporn still host Truth Today?

The question is will Thaksin want him to after being caught lying and undermining the information campaign. It is one thing to make outrageous stuff up. It is another if you actually get caught.

[Publicus]

[

Or chalerm then he could quickly organize for one of his sons to step into the role. Or even jatuporn or even a return of somchai. Wow, so much talent.

So much wasted talent, yes it's a shame they haven't been "wasted" like in "make my day"

Sad and pathetic to say, but Thailand hasn't produced an actual or transformative leader since............................................. since.............since..........................

Edited November 20, 2009 by Publicus

[LawnGnome]

Look at the collection of morons fronting the red shirt brigade - Jatuporn, Charlerm, Noppadon, Thaksin, etc. These are the people that some want back in charge of Thailand. My god, my testicles shrink up faster than plunging into icey water, at that thought.

PM's Office Minister in charge of bullshit Jatuporn, FM in charge of bribing judges and whinging Noppadon, Secretary of Crappy Fathers Charlerm, Prime Minister of Changing country policy to enrich himself Thaksin, Secretary of <deleted> Samak, Deputy Secretary in Charge of Carrying Thaksin's jock strap Somchai. Secretary of Killing woman and shooting up their refrigerators Yongyut.

Give me Abhisit and Suthep- any day. (Although you can keep Kasit, he's another loudmouth lout).

[LawnGnome]

[

Or chalerm then he could quickly organize for one of his sons to step into the role. Or even jatuporn or even a return of somchai. Wow, so much talent.

So much wasted talent, yes it's a shame they haven't been "wasted" like in "make my day"

Sad and pathetic to say, but Thailand hasn't produced an actual or transformative leader since............................................. since.............since..........................

Chaun and Anand. Abhisit might be there, given that he seems to be able to run the country despite the red shirts best efforts to destroy it.

[lensta]

[

Or chalerm then he could quickly organize for one of his sons to step into the role. Or even jatuporn or even a return of somchai. Wow, so much talent.

So much wasted talent, yes it's a shame they haven't been "wasted" like in "make my day"

Sad and pathetic to say, but Thailand hasn't produced an actual or transformative leader since............................................. since.............since..........................

Is Bill Clinton doing anything at the moment? I think he would be the perfect person to be the PM of Thailand, and think of the fringe benifits he could have.

[baht&sold]

PM to visit Chiang Mai on Nov 29 despite assassination threat

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said Friday that he will attend the Chamber of Commerce meeting in Chiang Mai on November 29 despite an assassination threat.

He said he would not change his schedule although a community radio station in Chiang Mai said the prime minister would be assassinate with a bomb attack.

He said he is confident in security measures of security agencies.

Abhisit said it was illegal that the radio programme host made the death threat during his programme and police would take legal action against the host.

-- The Nation 21 Nov 2009

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

If there is even an attempt on the PMs life I think the @#$% would hit the fan. The timing of red rally, PM visit (complete with allegations of assasinmation threat) and then yellow rally and asset case outcome are all running into each other. Conditions for the perfect storm.

[way2muchcoffee]

Conditions for the perfect storm.

Yes. So it would appear. The events of the last 2 months, ramping up over the last 2 weeks, and the impending conclusion of the assets case, all point to the possibility of very troubled times ahead in the very near future.

[ham]

Conditions for the perfect storm.

Yes. So it would appear. The events of the last 2 months, ramping up over the last 2 weeks, and the impending conclusion of the assets case, all point to the possibility of very troubled times ahead in the very near future.

maybe a red airport this time? The timing is "good" all advance booking payments are done ;-). Would they let it happen? I guess they can't. Are "they" all in their own trap? No good at all! There is not much space left, thank to all those "concrete heads"! Climbing high, falling deep, comes to my mind.

[Valentine]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase. The powerbase that Thaksin built his rise on is still growing faster, just look at the demographics of thailand. Of course there is a chance that officers only get recruited from certain circles of society, but that is also a dual edged sword. Talent dont follow social status.

I dont see how the elite junta can keep to their absolute power without moving toward a less democratic and more oppressive society. Its a power change you see in any country with a rapid growing population.

This so called powerbase is rapidly eroding after Mr T's Cambodian debacle. Those who were ready to forgive his indiscretions in the past have taken to calling him a traitor.

[cm das]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase. The powerbase that Thaksin built his rise on is still growing faster, just look at the demographics of thailand. Of course there is a chance that officers only get recruited from certain circles of society, but that is also a dual edged sword. Talent dont follow social status.

I dont see how the elite junta can keep to their absolute power without moving toward a less democratic and more oppressive society. Its a power change you see in any country with a rapid growing population.

This so called powerbase is rapidly eroding after Mr T's Cambodian debacle. Those who were ready to forgive his indiscretions in the past have taken to calling him a traitor.

I can second this point. My wife's family (from Chiang Mai) all used to support Thaksin & they voted PPP in the first post-coup election. They've been gradually getting less and less enthusiastic over the last 2 years though & now they say they're sick of Thaksin - they wish he'd just give up & shut up.

[Ricardo]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase.

I don't quite follow your logic here ?

Why would the military go looking for Thaksin-supporters, in their recruitment, and aren't most of the military conscripts anyway, drawn at random from the general population ?

[xminator]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase. The powerbase that Thaksin built his rise on is still growing faster, just look at the demographics of thailand. Of course there is a chance that officers only get recruited from certain circles of society, but that is also a dual edged sword. Talent dont follow social status.

I dont see how the elite junta can keep to their absolute power without moving toward a less democratic and more oppressive society. Its a power change you see in any country with a rapid growing population.

This so called powerbase is rapidly eroding after Mr T's Cambodian debacle. Those who were ready to forgive his indiscretions in the past have taken to calling him a traitor.

Wishfull thinking and what the propaganda would have you believe. This is not only about Thaksin. Its about the people that he used to rise to power. They are still there and the issues that he could play on to gain populist support is still there.

Why would the military go looking for Thaksin-supporters, in their recruitment, and aren't most of the military conscripts anyway, drawn at random from the general population ?

Because its a demographic thing. Birth rates are double the death rates and population increase is double in the north compared to Bangkok. Also all experience from any country is that the middle/high tiers of society will have more people that manage to stay away from conscription. A higher percentage of people with a poor background will also see advantages in continuing a military career. And the use of "thaksin-supporter" is wrong. This is a more fundamental change in thai society, and Thaksin is just the first who used this to rise to power outside the established power network. The only thing that is working for the old elite in the military is the factor "I know someone that know someone", and even that will divide the military further. Nothing like beeing passed in promotion by someone that is incompetent and happened to have the "right" father.

[h90]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase. The powerbase that Thaksin built his rise on is still growing faster, just look at the demographics of thailand. Of course there is a chance that officers only get recruited from certain circles of society, but that is also a dual edged sword. Talent dont follow social status.

I dont see how the elite junta can keep to their absolute power without moving toward a less democratic and more oppressive society. Its a power change you see in any country with a rapid growing population.

This so called powerbase is rapidly eroding after Mr T's Cambodian debacle. Those who were ready to forgive his indiscretions in the past have taken to calling him a traitor.

Wishfull thinking and what the propaganda would have you believe. This is not only about Thaksin. Its about the people that he used to rise to power. They are still there and the issues that he could play on to gain populist support is still there.

Why would the military go looking for Thaksin-supporters, in their recruitment, and aren't most of the military conscripts anyway, drawn at random from the general population ?

Because its a demographic thing. Birth rates are double the death rates and population increase is double in the north compared to Bangkok. Also all experience from any country is that the middle/high tiers of society will have more people that manage to stay away from conscription. A higher percentage of people with a poor background will also see advantages in continuing a military career. And the use of "thaksin-supporter" is wrong. This is a more fundamental change in thai society, and Thaksin is just the first who used this to rise to power outside the established power network. The only thing that is working for the old elite in the military is the factor "I know someone that know someone", and even that will divide the military further. Nothing like beeing passed in promotion by someone that is incompetent and happened to have the "right" father.

Well it is only about Thaksin...All the red shirt bosses visit or call Thaksin all the time and follow his orders. As well he is financing that all. So there is no red movement without Thaksin.

As for the army: In general as more educated as less support for Thaksin. I would doubt that it is any difference in the army. So in the middle to top of the army there is a lot resistance against Thaksin.

[Valentine]

Wishfull thinking and what the propaganda would have you believe. This is not only about Thaksin. Its about the people that he used to rise to power. They are still there and the issues that he could play on to gain populist support is still there.

Not wishdul thinking at all but based on conversations with people from the NE. Mr T's red shirts are so fearful "populist support" will swing away from them which is why they vigorously oppose any visits by government reps.

[webfact]

Fierce political battles brewing

By SATHIEN WIRIYAPANPONGSA,

PANYA THIEWSANGWAN

The Nation on Sunday

Published on November 22, 2009

Ex-intelligence chief warns of violence as Thaksin and his allies might unleash all their might to topple govt

Political tensions are building to danger point as fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra steps up his struggle to regain power over the next several months, an intelligence expert and political observers warned yesterday.

Serious political confrontation - and possibly violence - could erupt during the upcoming months when Thaksin and his allies inside Parliament and on the streets employ an arsenal of tactics in a bid to effect a change in government, they said.

Pummarat Thaksadipong, former director of the National Intelligence Agency, said that given the recent movements of the Thaksin camp, "this upcoming festive season is unlikely to be the same for Thais".

The ex-leader was expected to "make his heaviest blow with the use of all the means he's got", Pummarat said.

Thaksin's allies who are MPs would disrupt the work of Parliament, and those who are protest leaders would instigate hatred against the government and possibly incite violence, he said.

The goal was to force the government to dissolve the House of Representatives before the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders rules on a corruption case against Thaksin, he said.

As much as Bt76 billion of Thaksin's assets rides on the verdict, which is expected sometime next month.

"Politics over the next three months, up to February, will see the fiercest fight between the two sides. Thaksin will try to use all means possible in his bid to return to power. And there is a tendency that violence may be used. This is the intelligence I have received," Pummarat said.

Senator Paiboon Nititawan said violence could explode as it did in April when Thaksin's supporters stage street protests again late this month.

"The aim is to cause violence and deaths. But in the April incident, the attempt failed because there were no deaths," he said, referring to the Songkran riots. "Now all the actors from the April incident have come back."

Leaders of the pro-Thaksin red shirts said earlier that the anti-government rally would continue until the government collapsed.

Senator Kamnoon Sithisamarn said he was convinced next month would be a "really difficult period" |for politics, starting with the red shirts' rally late this month.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will chair a meeting of security agencies this Wednesday to discuss measures to deal with the impending rally by the red shirts, a security source said.

Besides Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who is in charge of security affairs, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan, top military brass and acting police chief General Patheep Tanprasert will attend, the source said.

"It remains unclear whether the government will invoke the Internal Security Act. There is a concern the imposition could affect celebrations for His Majesty the King's birthday," the source said.

The rally is not expected to turn violent, as there are cracks within the red-shirt movement, which is now divided into three factions, he added.

"It appears the rally is simply aimed at causing headaches for the government and the military," he said.

-- The Nation 2009/11/22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[hammered]

Fierce political battles brewing

By SATHIEN WIRIYAPANPONGSA,

PANYA THIEWSANGWAN

The Nation on Sunday

Published on November 22, 2009

Ex-intelligence chief warns of violence as Thaksin and his allies might unleash all their might to topple govt

Political tensions are building to danger point as fugitive ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra steps up his struggle to regain power over the next several months, an intelligence expert and political observers warned yesterday.

Serious political confrontation - and possibly violence - could erupt during the upcoming months when Thaksin and his allies inside Parliament and on the streets employ an arsenal of tactics in a bid to effect a change in government, they said.

Pummarat Thaksadipong, former director of the National Intelligence Agency, said that given the recent movements of the Thaksin camp, "this upcoming festive season is unlikely to be the same for Thais".

The ex-leader was expected to "make his heaviest blow with the use of all the means he's got", Pummarat said.

Thaksin's allies who are MPs would disrupt the work of Parliament, and those who are protest leaders would instigate hatred against the government and possibly incite violence, he said.

The goal was to force the government to dissolve the House of Representatives before the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders rules on a corruption case against Thaksin, he said.

As much as Bt76 billion of Thaksin's assets rides on the verdict, which is expected sometime next month.

"Politics over the next three months, up to February, will see the fiercest fight between the two sides. Thaksin will try to use all means possible in his bid to return to power. And there is a tendency that violence may be used. This is the intelligence I have received," Pummarat said.

Senator Paiboon Nititawan said violence could explode as it did in April when Thaksin's supporters stage street protests again late this month.

"The aim is to cause violence and deaths. But in the April incident, the attempt failed because there were no deaths," he said, referring to the Songkran riots. "Now all the actors from the April incident have come back."

Leaders of the pro-Thaksin red shirts said earlier that the anti-government rally would continue until the government collapsed.

Senator Kamnoon Sithisamarn said he was convinced next month would be a "really difficult period" |for politics, starting with the red shirts' rally late this month.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva will chair a meeting of security agencies this Wednesday to discuss measures to deal with the impending rally by the red shirts, a security source said.

Besides Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban, who is in charge of security affairs, Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan, top military brass and acting police chief General Patheep Tanprasert will attend, the source said.

"It remains unclear whether the government will invoke the Internal Security Act. There is a concern the imposition could affect celebrations for His Majesty the King's birthday," the source said.

The rally is not expected to turn violent, as there are cracks within the red-shirt movement, which is now divided into three factions, he added.

"It appears the rally is simply aimed at causing headaches for the government and the military," he said.

-- The Nation 2009/11/22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

Sounds a realistic appraisal. It isnt often that people spell it out so openly.

[jayboy]

[quote name='hammered' date='2009-11-22 02:46:15' post='3156171'

Sounds a realistic appraisal. It isnt often that people spell it out so openly.

Not really clear which part you are referring to.Pummarat Thaksadipong's comments are the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish - "the aim is to cause violence and death" - echoing the most bone headed elite elements.Paiboon Nititiwan is more of the same although somewhat more measured in tone.On the other hand the unnamed source at the end is quite sensible and using your expression a "realistic appraisal" and of course completely contradicting the earlier comments.

[jayboy]

Look at the collection of morons fronting the red shirt brigade - Jatuporn, Charlerm, Noppadon, Thaksin, etc. These are the people that some want back in charge of Thailand. My god, my testicles shrink up faster than plunging into icey water, at that thought.

PM's Office Minister in charge of bullshit Jatuporn, FM in charge of bribing judges and whinging Noppadon, Secretary of Crappy Fathers Charlerm, Prime Minister of Changing country policy to enrich himself Thaksin, Secretary of <deleted> Samak, Deputy Secretary in Charge of Carrying Thaksin's jock strap Somchai. Secretary of Killing woman and shooting up their refrigerators Yongyut.

Give me Abhisit and Suthep- any day. (Although you can keep Kasit, he's another loudmouth lout).

As a matter of interest I wonder whether you are aware of Suthep's background and reputation?

[KireB]

Not really clear which part you are referring to.Pummarat Thaksadipong's comments are the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish - "the aim is to cause violence and death" - echoing the most bone headed elite elements.Paiboon Nititiwan is more of the same although somewhat more measured in tone.On the other hand the unnamed source at the end is quite sensible and using your expression a "realistic appraisal" and of course completely contradicting the earlier comments.

Well I guess most of us must be blind and idiots in believing the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish , but the aim of causing violence and death is not new is it? Remember Black Songkran? Thaksin calling out for a People's Revolution? His supporters drove LPG tankers though the streets! Do you remember the daily grenate attacks on the PAD rallies? Dou you remember the violence in Chiang Mai and Issan?

Thaksin wants his money back, and not just Thaksin but all these so-called Red Democracy Leaders who will have their promised cuts and influencial positions.

The end game hasn't been played yet and could get significantly violent!

Edited November 22, 2009 by KireB

[animatic]

There are all kinds of interesting quotes in that article!:

Jakrapob admits meeting Thaksin in Cambodia

By The Nation

Jakrapob said the struggle to bring down the present administration would continue, but the opponents would no longer rely on conventional forms of protest.

Different tactics would be used to confront the government, including possible clandestine subversion or armed attacks,

"I am not certain whether democracy would resume after the downfall of the government," he said.

An intelligence source said he is taking refuge in Burma.

-- The Nation 2009/11/19

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

I think we can expect a twitter from Thaksin saying that virtually everything in this article is a misquote!

Certainly sedition is not a stretch as lable for these remarks.

Tlak like this in a foreign land, one which is holding a Thai national

as essentially hostage on a spurious charge, would certainly not be acting in the best interests of thais.

He may imagine in his head he is doing the right thing,

doesn't mean he can't be labeled 'traitor to his homeland' pretty easily.

[jayboy]

Well I guess most of us must be blind and idiots in believing the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish

If the cap fits....However you have no more right than I do do to speak for "most of us"

The PAD movement's bullying and violence is a matter of record, and set the tone for street politics.For a time there was an active effort on the yellows to court martyrdom through provocative acts.I have never incidentally excused the red acts of violence.

Overall - and both sides tend to be uncomfortable with this - the striking aspect given the bitterness of the division is actually how little violence there has been.I say striking because its relative absence doesn't fit in with the myth building (of which the rather low key Songkran riot is a prime example).

[rixalex]

of which the rather low key Songkran riot is a prime example

Seems that your low key is my mayhem and havoc.

[animatic]

Don't Taksin and co realise the military will never let them get in power again? Its just not an option. I can't believe they think they can win against the military.

I've always been under the impression that there were 2 kinds of military....red and yellow? One of them more dormant than the other, depending on the present situation and government in power...

True or not true ?

LaoPo

Regardless.....it's sad that we subconsciously {subliminally} accepted, even understand, the reference to a steadfast system of militarism entrenched within political and civil infrastructures.

Only two kinds of military? Hardly.

There are dozens of factions, some that change allegiances with the wind,

others like the 'graduate cadet class year' allegiances that rarely change for some reason.

And then there are also the strict allegiances yo to your commanding officers.

Where the officers go , so go the men.

But to call it either red or yellow is a very shallow analysis.

Or even red, yellow, blue; just a superficial overlay.

And this doesn't even get into graft driven allegiances

What is clear is that Thaskin as trying to gain the upper hand in the military and they stopped that.

Another thing is the modern military, for good or ill, has been acting as a relief valve as politicians

Seem to NOT be able to get the jobs done and not rape the country in the process.

The implied threat of military intervention seems the only thing keeping some pols from

going the whole ten yards into total domination and evisceration of the country's coffers.

I think of it as an additional non-typical checks and balances mechanism.

Not a perfect one, but apparently still needed in some rather Thai fashion.

Do I approve of the military's domination? Not particularly, as with most things Thai,

there is no black and white westernized perfect answer. As if that even exists in the west.

There are inter-locking shades of gray cogs, all turning with or against each other.

The military is just one more piece in that over all puzzle.

Hand Thaksin back that 2 billion baht with his current, obvious mindset and it WILL be civil war,

and as noted above they are hardly likely to allow that to happen are they?

Hence the need for a suitably large body of force to keep order.

If politics were being fought in a civilized, orderly manner this would not be needed,

but that also is not the case.

Edited November 22, 2009 by animatic

[IvanDobsky]

Well I guess most of us must be blind and idiots in believing the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish

If the cap fits....However you have no more right than I do do to speak for "most of us"

The PAD movement's bullying and violence is a matter of record, and set the tone for street politics.For a time there was an active effort on the yellows to court martyrdom through provocative acts.I have never incidentally excused the red acts of violence.

Overall - and both sides tend to be uncomfortable with this - the striking aspect given the bitterness of the division is actually how little violence there has been.I say striking because its relative absence doesn't fit in with the myth building (of which the rather low key Songkran riot is a prime example).

low key Songkran riots?

[animatic]

[

Or chalerm then he could quickly organize for one of his sons to step into the role. Or even jatuporn or even a return of somchai. Wow, so much talent.

So much wasted talent, yes it's a shame they haven't been "wasted" like in "make my day"

Sad and pathetic to say, but Thailand hasn't produced an actual or transformative leader since............................................. since.............since..........................

Chulalongkorn.

[KireB]

Well I guess most of us must be blind and idiots in believing the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish

The PAD movement's bullying and violence is a matter of record, and set the tone for street politics.For a time there was an active effort on the yellows to court martyrdom through provocative acts.I have never incidentally excused the red acts of violence.

Overall - and both sides tend to be uncomfortable with this - the striking aspect given the bitterness of the division is actually how little violence there has been.I say striking because its relative absence doesn't fit in with the myth building (of which the rather low key Songkran riot is a prime example).

The world saw a bloodless coup with soldiers holding riffles and getting flowers from girls, the world saw a airport seizure with ' Kum-Ba-Yah my Lord singing' grandmothers and children. The world also saw the Songkran Riots with red shirted idiots taking over armoured military vehicles, placing LPG tankers in residential areas and creating absolute mayhem in the streets of Bangkok. Low key? Yeah right, headlines everywhere in the world!

[animatic]

Over time the "red" faction of the millitary will get more numbers. Simply because the military statistically will recruit more people from the red powerbase. The powerbase that Thaksin built his rise on is still growing faster, just look at the demographics of thailand. Of course there is a chance that officers only get recruited from certain circles of society, but that is also a dual edged sword. Talent dont follow social status.

I dont see how the elite junta can keep to their absolute power without moving toward a less democratic and more oppressive society. Its a power change you see in any country with a rapid growing population.

But those increasing red numbers will not be in ANY leadership position for 10-15 years at least,

and by then the red movement will likely be a marginalized faction. Just another historical anomaly.

Thakwsi will be a desgraced, displaced old man, and not be able to lead before these 'red recruits

ever become a viable force with in the military.

[jayboy]

Well I guess most of us must be blind and idiots in believing the typical reactionary and dishonest rubbish

If the cap fits....However you have no more right than I do do to speak for "most of us"

The PAD movement's bullying and violence is a matter of record, and set the tone for street politics.For a time there was an active effort on the yellows to court martyrdom through provocative acts.I have never incidentally excused the red acts of violence.

Overall - and both sides tend to be uncomfortable with this - the striking aspect given the bitterness of the division is actually how little violence there has been.I say striking because its relative absence doesn't fit in with the myth building (of which the rather low key Songkran riot is a prime example).

low key Songkran riots?

By the standards of political street violence, yes..very.All credit to the law enforcement agencies involved.