Pm Abhisit Visits North

[WinnieTheKhwai]

PM vows to visit Chiang Mai despite threats

By The Nation

Published on November 23, 2009

Well done Abhisit for not being intimidated by the Thaksin Mafia.

PM may reconsider Chiang Mai visit

Published: 23/11/2009 at 12:32 PM

Online news: Politics

( From the other English language paper, the one that's slightly less radical, with some notable exceptions )

[hammered]

PM vows to visit Chiang Mai despite threats

By The Nation

Published on November 23, 2009

Well done Abhisit for not being intimidated by the Thaksin Mafia.

PM may reconsider Chiang Mai visit

Published: 23/11/2009 at 12:32 PM

Online news: Politics

( From the other English language paper, the one that's slightly less radical, with some notable exceptions )

Throw it in with Gen. Prem's commen tthat all sides must loiok to each other to solve problems and Thaksins thanking him for the statement and you have possibly a movement away from the edge. Possibly

[jayboy]

Don't patronise those who are as well informed or better informed on the Thai political structure as you are.You point is fatuous without the appropriate context.We know that Abhisit is constitutionally quite eligible to be Prime Minister of Thailand for the reasons you mention.However his path to to this post is certainly murky and "guided" and though it's unclear how much blame attaches to him personally, he has benefited from a criminal military coup, a rigged constitution, dubious court decisions and military patronage.The member who you unsuccessfully attempted to belittle has a perfectly valid point , namely that Abhisit needs to seek a popular mandate in fair elections as a matter of some priority.All the evidence suggests he will not obtain it.

Come on Jayboy. It is now the next day and I am still waiting for either you or your friend zzaa09 to back up his comment of stated fact that Abhisit wasn't elected as PM - but appointed by a judicial coup. Since you jumped in, can you back it up or do both you and zzaa09 have nothing?

I didn't say Abhisit was appointed by an official coup.Read my post quoted above which makes my position very clear.

Incidentally I try to respond to posts and failure to do so is simply having not spotted a question.

OK, we are back understanding each other (which is the way I prefer it). I responded to your support of someone else who said Abhisit: "wasn't elected - but appointed by a judicial coup." I don't want to get into a discussion as to what an official coup is, but if someone is going to say Abhisit was made PM by a judicial coup and state it as if it is a fact, I would expect them to back it up with fact. So far, there has been no fact presented to back it up.

Good.And while I'm here I would like to confirm my support of Siripon's remarks.There should be zero tolerance of this kind of violent language by the media or indeed in general political discourse.What was said - if reported correctly - about Abhisit is intolerable.Tempers are inflamed enough and it's all too easy for this kind of poisonous vitriol to spill over.(I've been reading Richard Evans' excellent book, first of a trilogy, dealing with the Nazis rise to power so the subject of political violence is fresh in my mind.)

Of course there's poisonous language used on the other side.See BP for analysis of what was said at a recent PAD rally although to be fair unlike the Chiangmai incident it generally seemed to be due to somewhat over excited rhetoric.

[jayboy]

Throw it in with Gen. Prem's commen tthat all sides must loiok to each other to solve problems and Thaksins thanking him for the statement and you have possibly a movement away from the edge. Possibly

I heard they might be going on holiday together (which is nice).

[Asa]

Verbal life threatening is one thing, another is life threatening action/ situation. We can hear the first clause everyday, in the news, at police precincts, in parliament debates, as well as on TV soaps. And if there is a possibility that the latter would happen as threaten, then the alleged maybe investigated for truth and the visit should be cancelled. This, even the PM himself does not see it as there is one. Do you think the risk of PM being kill with thousand alerted security hands is real? I think the chance is very very slim, unless there was a real crazed man.

Talking about bravery, Yes, I would take my hat of for another man, ML Sukhumbhand when he volunteered to ride the copter with the Karen rebels back from Bangkok to Kanjanaburi at gun point, but Abhisit advanced plan to visit the north a bravery? I'm afraid I could not give him that previlege yet.

[jif]

Court Approves Arrest Warrant for Chiang Mai Red Shirt Leader

UPDATE : 23 November 2009

Chiang Mai courts have approved an arrest warrant for Petcharawat Wattanapongsirikul, a red shirt leader who threatened the Prime Minister's life on community radio.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData...?DataID=1021437

[h90]

Even in the USA, where they have the constitutional right to free speech, threatening to kill the President is still a federal offence, punishable by fines and / or imprisonment of up to five years. Its not an outdated law it is often called upon by the Secret Service.

So its not exactly surprising to see similar laws in existence in Thailand. We have no way of knowing whether the PM or the Police believes this threat to be credible or not, but I think given what happened to Sonthi it would be foolish to take it lightly.

They have threatened the life of the PM. This at a time when confidence needs to be restored, not for the government's sake but for the sake of the working people, and not just of Chiangmai but for the whole of Thailand.

There are ways to express dissatisfaction, but death threats is over stepping the line, and the culprit should be punished for that. If the reds want to be taken seriously they should not resort to violence or even threats of violence.

Hat's off to Abhisit for making the trip, its a brave move and one that's needed, I just hope his security detail is tighter than what was provided for his Asean summit guests in Pattaya...

If I threat my neighbor to kill him, the police will arrest me and I'll be punished either by fines or imprisonment.

[animatic]

PM vows to visit Chiang Mai despite threats

By The Nation

Published on November 23, 2009

Well done Abhisit for not being intimidated by the Thaksin Mafia.

PM may reconsider Chiang Mai visit

Published: 23/11/2009 at 12:32 PM

Online news: Politics

( From the other English language paper, the one that's slightly less radical, with some notable exceptions )

Throw it in with Gen. Prem's comment that all sides must look to each other to solve problems and Thaksins thanking him for the statement and you have possibly a movement away from the edge. Possibly

Let's also consider that if a car bomb is used, as threatened on radio, in the hopes of 'getting the PM',

then many, many others would be injured or worse. So deciding to not go might be the act of

a responsible person thinking of the public safety and not just his right to travel freely in Thailand.

[Sao Jiang Mai]

We are having a charity party at our office near CMU on the same day and so I called Rak Chiang Mai 51 today to ask if we would be safe. They said they had more important things to do than bother with a bunch of expat and Thai shoppers and partygoers, and after repeatedly asking whether we had any political affiliations, seemed satisfied to guarantee that they would leave us alone...phew! I can't believe I have to virtually ask their permission to organise a charity event. Disgusting...But I felt that it was best to check because there are rumours of them shutting down roads, etc. So, according to them all is clear by the Canal Road!

[marshbags]

Court rejects request for arrest warrant against Chiang Mai red-shirt leader

Chiang Mai - The Chiang Mai Provincial Court Monday rejected police's request for an arrest warrant against a local red-shirt on ground that police's evidence is too weak.

The court refused to approve the arrest warrant against Phetchawat Watanapongsirikul, a leader of the Chiang Mai Loving 51 Group.

Police want to arrest Phetchawat on charge that he had made death threat against Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva.

But the court reasoned that police could not use only an audio clip of Phetchawat. The court said police also had to produce a weapon Phetchawat would use to assassinate the prime minister.

-- The Nation 23-11-09

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

marshbags

Edited November 23, 2009 by marshbags

[caf]

The bum got thrown out. Not shot or locked up

Then his puppets screwed up TWICE and got thrown out.

He got convicted when his own puppet government was in power too. Oops

He had complete freedom of movement till HE decided to leave the country.

Then by legal rules of parliamentary procedure,

the current government formed a coalition, which still functions.

All by the rules on the books as put there by Thais.

Let's see now which side is it calling for assassination ?

Oh yes, the red shirt side...

Which side didn't send commandos to top Thaksin?

Oh yes, the military and current government.

Who shows the courage to go to all place in the nation

even as assassination is being threaten against him?

Abhisit

Who doesn't have the stones to face a 2 year cream puff incarceration.

softened by the voluminous bribes he could make for creature comforts?

Thaksin.

So that makes a few things clearer.

Ah, so bum is ok when you use it but anatomical references used as a joke are not. Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

He did not get thrown out he was deposed when representing the Thai government overseas.

And what would have been the international response if commandos had been sent in to "top him"

Not sure what "voluminous " bribes are but are you supporting the current regimes tolerance of this bribe culture. Tolerated by all sides of course. Taksin and Abhisit.

Throwing mud in politics often has the reverse effect than that intended. I do not support Taksin but at least get the facts straight when you refer to him.

In the Uk some of the media took issue with Gordon Brown for poor handwriting, spelling mistakes and getting a name wrong in a condolence letter to the mother of a killed soldier. Many other members of the media also joined in. The conservative party took no side and in fact took no pleasure in the position he was put. they attack the party politics but they did not make cheap jibes. I trust you and others see the parallel

Getting personal gets nowhere.

[caf]

The arrest warrant issued for the DJ is welcome and proper and should be pursued aggressively. Officials public and private in Chiang Mai need openly and vocally to denounce the statement. These pre civil war conditions need to be dealt with strongly and swiftly.

If Chiang Mai cares about its country and about its tourism, it shouldn't be allowing conditions to develop which could result in the country's leader being assassinated there. Chiang Mai people have to pull their heads out of their <deleted>.

The conditions have not solely developed from Chiangmai people. This country has been in political turmoil for decades.

Talking of a pre civil war seems a little bit like incitement to me as does tarring all Chiangmai people the same and telling them to pull their heads out of their <deleted>. Presumably you can say that from China but I understand you spend some time in Chiangmai. You would say that to their face?

[caf]

Is this visit news worth posting in the forum?

Anyway, I wish he could leave the local people (and officers) to spend their weekend with families instead of waiting on him. Even better to find a way to secure Thai Engineer release from Cambodian jail.

He is PM and as such should be able to go anywhere in the country. In fact any person whatever status they have shoudl be able to do so likewise. There should be no no-go areas for anyone. The PM should be able to visit people of the country he is PM of. Quite simple really. That goes for a new PM if roles are reversed in parliament too.

A popular PM? We really wouldn't know, as he wasn't elected - but appointed by a judicial coup. Fair to proceed with sound and just elections. And then we'll see.

Not again. This should be simple enough. In Thailand, the PM is selected by all the elected MP's. Hence, Abhisit is an elected MP who has been selected by the rest of the elected MP's to be PM, just like the PM's before him. If this is still hard for you to understand, google Thailand and read.

the poster was commenting on the words "popular MP" and as he was elected as pm post-coup by mps and had no popular (ie peoples) mandate from an election the poster is right in his comment. He is of course the legal pm but not by the peoples choice. There is an important distinction.

[caf]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

[caf]

So it is a joke to say the PM will be killed. And PTP tell him to cancel the visit for his safety and yet never onjce call for calm and ask his opponents to stick to lawful dfemos and respect the right to visit.

The drumbeat of hatred goes on. LCM51's history is well knownb and they are a proven violent grouping with a belief based crede and claim they represent the people of the North. There is no debate on that.

And Publicus is drawing parallels between Chairman Mao and Taksin. Can't we all get back to the facts.

[marshbags]

Court Approves Arrest Warrant for Chiang Mai Red Shirt Leader

UPDATE : 23 November 2009

Chiang Mai courts have approved an arrest warrant for Petcharawat Wattanapongsirikul, a red shirt leader who threatened the Prime Minister's life on community radio.

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData...?DataID=1021437

Apologies for not adding my updated post 71 to this, as it should have been for continuity, IMHO.

I missed it.

marshbags

What a farce it is relating to the producing additional evidence.........material to be used ect.

Quote " The court said police also had to produce a weapon Phetchawat would use to assassinate the prime minister. "

TOT big time, what a joke

Edited November 23, 2009 by marshbags

[hammered]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

Of course Thaksin had nothing to do with the LCM51 action against the HIV awareness parade organized by gay groups. LCM51 are a lunatic extreme group who have judging form an interview, previosuly posted on this site, with one of their leaders decideed that they are the arbiters of what is acceptable Lanna culture in Chiang Mai and who have a proven track recored in threats and violence that includes actions against farmers and even other red groups. LCM51 should be condemned but that should not extend to routine condemnation or demonization against all red groups or their supporters and sympathisers. Most of these are reasonable people with mostly reasonsble demands who probably themselves dont even agree with what LCM51 gets up to. It is possible to condemn the actions of lunatics on any side in this without having to resort to demonizing all.

Although I use LCM51 as an example here it can be equally applied to other sides.

[Publicus]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

The fact is Thaksin does (and has had) a large number of the population he's been able to put in the streets of Bangkok especially at the snap of his finger. This is but another reason I shudder to think of the guy back in power as we know his record while PM and of his reprehensible behaviours since being deposed, such as Pattaya Asean and Black Songhran.

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

So it none the less does seem that, without my having thought of or about it, I do somehow manage to incite you fairly intensely.

[animatic]

Historians always make juxtapositions between smaller contemporary actors, such as Thaksin in this case,

and much more weighty and problematic historical figures. As in;

Not learning from comparing 'various pasts' to the present,

dooms you to far too often repeat the past in some fashion.

Often to a cultures detriment.

The all too apropos comparisons of Red Shirts and Red Guards is not illegitimate,

regardless of the relative scales or political divides. In several cases they have

served similar purposes for their masters.

Edited November 23, 2009 by animatic

[h90]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

The fact is Thaksin does (and has had) a large number of the population he's been able to put in the streets of Bangkok especially at the snap of his finger. This is but another reason I shudder to think of the guy back in power as we know his record while PM and of his reprehensible behaviours since being deposed, such as Pattaya Asean and Black Songhran.

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

So it none the less does seem that, without my having thought of or about it, I do somehow manage to incite you fairly intensely.

With a snap of a $$ you mean?

Without payment only 2000-3000 people of hardcore fans come. Everything else need money

[Publicus]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

The fact is Thaksin does (and has had) a large number of the population he's been able to put in the streets of Bangkok especially at the snap of his finger. This is but another reason I shudder to think of the guy back in power as we know his record while PM and of his reprehensible behaviours since being deposed, such as Pattaya Asean and Black Songhran.

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

So it none the less does seem that, without my having thought of or about it, I do somehow manage to incite you fairly intensely.

With a snap of a $$ you mean?

Without payment only 2000-3000 people of hardcore fans come. Everything else need money

Yes, yes agreed. I'm well on the record that Thaksin pays his reds. Yes, yes a snap of $$ as you must put it and have it put.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Of course Thaksin had nothing to do with the LCM51 action against the HIV awareness parade organized by gay groups. LCM51 are a lunatic extreme group who have judging form an interview, previosuly posted on this site, with one of their leaders decideed that they are the arbiters of what is acceptable Lanna culture in Chiang Mai and who have a proven track recored in threats and violence that includes actions against farmers and even other red groups. LCM51 should be condemned but that should not extend to routine condemnation or demonization against all red groups or their supporters and sympathisers. Most of these are reasonable people with mostly reasonsble demands who probably themselves dont even agree with what LCM51 gets up to. It is possible to condemn the actions of lunatics on any side in this without having to resort to demonizing all.

Although I use LCM51 as an example here it can be equally applied to other sides.

Very well said. Anyone willing to take the trouble of finding news sources other than the ones typically peddled here will find no shortage of reasonable people on any side.

[caf]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

The fact is Thaksin does (and has had) a large number of the population he's been able to put in the streets of Bangkok especially at the snap of his finger. This is but another reason I shudder to think of the guy back in power as we know his record while PM and of his reprehensible behaviours since being deposed, such as Pattaya Asean and Black Songhran.

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

So it none the less does seem that, without my having thought of or about it, I do somehow manage to incite you fairly intensely.

You are not inciting me to riot. I am merely pointing out the way you stir up feelings irrationally. Your words are incitments as they stir up possible violence amomgst Thais which is clearly your agenda. The parallel between the red guard and the red shirt mob is not accuarate. The red shirt mob was never part of a government army in control of an entire country with no democratic checks and balances. There are so many differences that the parallel is absurd

[LawnGnome]

Of course Thaksin had nothing to do with the LCM51 action against the HIV awareness parade organized by gay groups. LCM51 are a lunatic extreme group who have judging form an interview, previosuly posted on this site, with one of their leaders decideed that they are the arbiters of what is acceptable Lanna culture in Chiang Mai and who have a proven track recored in threats and violence that includes actions against farmers and even other red groups. LCM51 should be condemned but that should not extend to routine condemnation or demonization against all red groups or their supporters and sympathisers. Most of these are reasonable people with mostly reasonsble demands who probably themselves dont even agree with what LCM51 gets up to. It is possible to condemn the actions of lunatics on any side in this without having to resort to demonizing all.

Although I use LCM51 as an example here it can be equally applied to other sides.

Very well said. Anyone willing to take the trouble of finding news sources other than the ones typically peddled here will find no shortage of reasonable people on any side.

I would hold my breath waiting for Winnie to "Condemn" any red action resulting in violence or bigotry, but it hasn't happened to far, and I don't want to turn purple.

[jayboy]

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

True up to a point but as one would expect from such a partisan viewpoint misses the main issue.

If there was any parallel with the Red Guards (and I agree there was) it surely must be the PAD Yellow movement for a wide variety of reasons easily apparent to anybody with a grasp of history.Certainly the Reds reacted to the PAD intimidation and violence and obviously Thaksin was their backer (just as the PAD had their rich paymasters).But the yellows pioneered the phenomomen.The reds have grown and obviously represent a larger part of the country.At the same time the shadowy yellow backers grew nervous of the yellows democratic impulses (yes, there were some) and curbed their attack dog for time being anyway.

Really a case of attempting to sow a whirlwind but reaping a hurricane.

[KireB]

Certainly the Reds reacted to the PAD intimidation and violence and obviously Thaksin was their backer (just as the PAD had their rich paymasters).But the yellows pioneered the phenomomen.

The Red movement was a very cleverly doctored, marketed, reaction on the Yellows' street successes by the Thaksing government mafia. To say that the yellows pioneered in violence and intimidation is absolute nonsense, please get your facts right!

The completely harmless and peaceful yellow movement stood up againgst the uber-corrupption of the Thaksin government and endured daily beatings, urine filled plastic bags, m76 attacks at Government House and much more troughout the country! That's was the moment the guards stood up fought back!

[jayboy]

Certainly the Reds reacted to the PAD intimidation and violence and obviously Thaksin was their backer (just as the PAD had their rich paymasters).But the yellows pioneered the phenomomen.

To say that the yellows pioneered in violence and intimidation is absolute nonsense, please get your facts right!

Don't argue with me because I don't sense you welcome home truths.Consult current political historians of which Pasuk/Baker are the most accessible and reliable in English.It's beyond argument the yellow movement pioneered intimidation and violence on the streets, and as you suggest the reds followed suit.I'm not arguing one was worse than the other, simply noting the critical path which is incontrovertible.You can scream "nonsense" as much as you like but the facts are clear.

[Publicus]

Reds' openly stated threats of violence against the gay would be festival paraders in Chiang Mai who were prevented from having their day in the public streets reinforce the divisive, intemperate and polarizing nature of both Thaksin himself and of his personal red army.

I shudder to think of Thailand as a country if Thaksin were to regain power with his red army at his disposal for any of his purposes or whims. It makes me think of Chairman Mao and his Red Guards who during their ruthless and mindless ten year campaign against the 'enemies' of Chairman Mao halted the development of China, killed untold numbers of fellow Chinese and loved every minute of it.

Pardons and amnesties of Thaksin and his cronies who upon any retun would have their own personal Red Guard army throughout Thailand are absolutely out of the question, unless Thais want to consign their country to self immolation.

Do you have a source for saying Taksin was involved in that dispute. And incitement seems to be the order of the day, linking Chairman Mao and his deeds to what you take to be whims of taksin. you are on dangerous ground. incitement is actually against forum rules.

The fact is Thaksin does (and has had) a large number of the population he's been able to put in the streets of Bangkok especially at the snap of his finger. This is but another reason I shudder to think of the guy back in power as we know his record while PM and of his reprehensible behaviours since being deposed, such as Pattaya Asean and Black Songhran.

Neither am I the only forumist who's sought to point out a certain paralled between Chairman Mao's Red Guards and Thaksin's red shirts.

So it none the less does seem that, without my having thought of or about it, I do somehow manage to incite you fairly intensely.

You are not inciting me to riot. I am merely pointing out the way you stir up feelings irrationally. Your words are incitments as they stir up possible violence amomgst Thais which is clearly your agenda. The parallel between the red guard and the red shirt mob is not accuarate. The red shirt mob was never part of a government army in control of an entire country with no democratic checks and balances. There are so many differences that the parallel is absurd

Haha, you try to assign to me an importance and significance of impact I neither could nor do have. You also try to issue an outrageous accusation. Motive?

While 99% of forumists are focused on the Reds' initiative of the coming weekend and their violent record, to include Asean/Pattaya and Black Songkran, or on the Yellows, or the army, the police, the PM, Chiang Mai, the Thaksin tapes and interview transcript and so on and so on, you're accusing moi of inciting violence among Thais? Here from the TVF? You're focused on moi as the root of all evil in Thailand? Hah!

Who's your role model, Richard Nixon? The Grand Inquisitor?

Edited November 24, 2009 by Publicus

[Old Man River]

the poster was commenting on the words "popular MP" and as he was elected as pm post-coup by mps and had no popular (ie peoples) mandate from an election the poster is right in his comment. He is of course the legal pm but not by the peoples choice. There is an important distinction.

Actually no. For some reason people seem to think that post coup, the government installed by the junta is still the same government we have in power. The fact that there was an election seems to have been forgotten.

Post coup there was a national election and mostly everyone eligible to vote did so for the candidates of their choice. These elected MP's were the people's choice and they got together and chose a PM. As you know, for varying reasons, these elected people's choice MP's have had to meet several times to choose different PM's. The latest PM, selected by the elected people's choice MP's is Abhisit and he came in as some of the elected people's choice MP's switched their allegiance to him.

Personally, I think this coalition government system is crazy, but then the system in my country has flaws as well.

[Thai at Heart]

the poster was commenting on the words "popular MP" and as he was elected as pm post-coup by mps and had no popular (ie peoples) mandate from an election the poster is right in his comment. He is of course the legal pm but not by the peoples choice. There is an important distinction.

Actually no. For some reason people seem to think that post coup, the government installed by the junta is still the same government we have in power. The fact that there was an election seems to have been forgotten.

Post coup there was a national election and mostly everyone eligible to vote did so for the candidates of their choice. These elected MP's were the people's choice and they got together and chose a PM. As you know, for varying reasons, these elected people's choice MP's have had to meet several times to choose different PM's. The latest PM, selected by the elected people's choice MP's is Abhisit and he came in as some of the elected people's choice MP's switched their allegiance to him.

Personally, I think this coalition government system is crazy, but then the system in my country has flaws as well.

The system is the system, and I also agree it is crazy.

Coalitions that flip mid term without sparking an election are something that should be addressed in the constitution. Maybe all parties should bindingly declare their coalition preferences before they enter the election. A little bit of moral behaviour in the parliament would help, but then we might have to wait a million years for anyone in politics in Thailand to be above being bought. Under the Thai system, any alliance is possible and I think we can all agree it isn't on the basis of political ethos, but personal benefit.

However, after all the banning, and legal cases and coups and flights to Beijing, late night discussion and whatever else, Abhisit ended up being presented with the PMship on the back of Newin's support.

Not a great system, but a sort of a hotch potch of a system that delivers probably the weakest representation of the people's voice, but a mandate nonetheless. For us to sit here and debate that all mandates are the same is ludicrous. Abhisit has the weakest type of mandate and his conduct ever since shows it very obviously. It is his cross to bear. We will probably never know what kind of PM Abhisit would have been, because in reality he has never been given the true mandate to act like one. In fact the new constitution delivered exactly the type of neutered PM that the system wants.

The UK is suffering with a PM rammed that was rammed down it's throat without a vote. The electoral outcome in the UK will probably be the outcome in Thailand. The incumbent will lose his mandate because from the very beginning he was very weak ground. Fortunately, the Dems being less inept, I would expect the Dems not to be annialated politically, as Labour will be in the UK.

Unfortunately for Thailand, Abhisit probably could have been good for the country, Mr. Brown however is probably punching above his political weight by having his name in the same sentence as Abhisit. In a way though, it is a shame that Abhisit has to be a Democrat anyway. It would be so much more appropriate and refreshing if he went off and started his own party anyway.

He can hardly be a new face with new ideas in such an establishment dinosaur of a party within such a corrupt system.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Thai at Heart