The Six Dreaded Immigration Pilgrimages

[SurfRider]

A Farang retiree living in Thailand, is required to report to a Thai Immigration office six times each and every year. Once to apply for an Extension of Stay ( Retirement ), another visit to pick up the Passport ( hopefully including the coveted extension stamp ); and four more times at 90-day intervals to report details of an address that never changes.

On the day my 90-day report was recently due, I was incapacitated due to illness. Fortunately, I was able to trek there within the 7 day "grace period", which I understand is sometimes arbitrarily not granted-- depending on the whim of the Immigration Agent.

These requirements got me to thinking about the consequences that aging retirees living with frail deteriorating health would face if one or more of the six Draconian pilgrimages to Thai Immigration each year were legitimately not possible, due to incapacitation. ( accident, illness, injury, hospitalization, recovery from surgery, etc., etc. )

With respect to 90-day reporting, I assume you would be faced with heavy mounting fines for whatever period you were not able to report.

In the case of the yearly Extension, I assume you would go into "overstay" status and eventually be facing all of the severe penalties associated with that dilemma-- even though the circumstances are out of your control.

Among the various possible consequences rearing their ugly heads would be: travel to a country outside Siam to obtain an "O" Visa to re-start the laborious process of hopefully regaining retirement status once again; possible severe fines; deportation, etc.

Has anyone had any actual experience with situations like these and been forced to face the wrath of Thai Immigration?

What actually happens if you are physically unable to present your future-cadaver or walking ATM machine ( choose your preferred metaphor ) to Thai Immigration according to the appointed schedules?

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[Heng]

It's actually just one or two at most dreaded pilgrimages AFAIK. Unless you count the other four as the dreaded pilgrimage to your local post office or can't find anyone else who can do the address reporting for you.

[mahtin]

The Thai Visa forum comes highly recommended.

Thai visas, residency and work permits

//Edit: fixed link -- Maestro

[Jingthing]

Move really close to your immigration office.

[t.s]

Move really close to your immigration office.

hire an agent to submit your passport for you. every company i have worked for in thailand has an agent who did this for us. once a year we show our faces when the visa is renewed.

[SurfRider]

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"Move really close to your immigration office."

Hmmmm... Interesting concept and potentially a cash-cow for Thai Immigration.

They could add a wing to every immigration office and charge rent for the opportunity to be within a few wheel-chair rotations of the Imm. Agent.

Kinda like a Geezer-Hostel, they could call it something like the "Vegetable Wing"

Great Idea!

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[SurfRider]

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"every company i have worked for in thailand has an agent who did this for us. once a year we show our faces when the visa is renewed"

Sounds like you're talking about working for a company that has authorization to obtain Visas with work-permits -- much different than an independent Expat who has to fend for himself.

I have a doctor friend from the States in BKK who teaches at Mahidol and has been here for 20 years. He's never stepped foot into an immigration office and doesn't even know where it's located. Everything is taken care of for him by Mahidol.

There are those fortunate people and then there are the rest of us.

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[Heng]

Regular expats can still get someone else to do the 90 day reporting. As for the required visit for face to face visa renewal, a positive person I would think would find it less troublesome than say the periodic prostate exam that you probably have to go through at your age.

[RubbaJohnny]

Or as perhaps they'd love

1 A new Elite scheme be a Hi-So local 10 billion

2 Build them a nice aircon office in your garden/hospice/suite

3 Live on steps of their office

I am of course beiing ironic and apreciate for the ailing infirm its beyond a joke.

Hopefully as technology improves this will be possible online by fourth millenium sometime between the airport rail completion and the last falang receiving PR

[sceadugenga]

Move really close to your immigration office.

I know an Aussie who's fond of a beer who lives about 50m from the MaeSai border crossing point.

When duty calls he just pops across on his way to the pub.

[pipchatel]

Move really close to your immigration office.

I know an Aussie who's fond of a beer who lives about 50m from the MaeSai border crossing point.

When duty calls he just pops across on his way to the pub.

I posted a thing about old age/visa runs last year. For my self when i reach that certain age were you look in the mirror, if it steams up you shave, 80+?? I for one just wont bother to go any more. The biggest fine they can give you for over stay is 20,000 baht. So if they catch up with you at 90+ good value i think.

One day these guys are going to send us all home anyway, they just need a nice strong army general,another coup, bye bye Farangs.

[Spaniel]

I have a 83 year old friend who has been bed ridden the past two years due to a stroke and unable to get to the Immigration office. His wife goes to Immigration and does his 90 day reporting and the past two years took the paperwork to Immigration and got his retirement visa too. She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I dont know if Immigration required this or not.

[pipchatel]

I have a 83 year old friend who has been bed ridden the past two years due to a stroke and unable to get to the Immigration office. His wife goes to Immigration and does his 90 day reporting and the past two years took the paperwork to Immigration and got his retirement visa too. She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I dont know if Immigration required this or not.

great post . Certainly this will continue to be a problem as we all age. We can only hope the younger immigration (new generation) with good computer power will adress this and let those say with 10 years consecutive visa's, go through a rubber stamp operation (electronic of course). I asked CM immigration once about what would happen if I were sick and could not come "YOU MUST" that was it.

[Spaniel]

I have a 83 year old friend who has been bed ridden the past two years due to a stroke and unable to get to the Immigration office. His wife goes to Immigration and does his 90 day reporting and the past two years took the paperwork to Immigration and got his retirement visa too. She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I dont know if Immigration required this or not.

I forgot to add that all this is done at the Bangkok immigration office.

[SurfRider]

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"She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I don't know if Immigration required this or not."

He's very fortunate to have a loving and caring Thai wife who is capable of and willing to make the six pilgrimages to Thai Immigration every year and it's very considerate of Thai Immigration to accommodate him in such a generous manner.

However, if they should suddenly start to enforce the Thai Immigration Laws and things don't go quite as well as they've become accustomed to, she could always wheel his bed over to the Cambodian border and take some photos with the border Imm. agents-- might not be a bad idea to make sure the casino is in the shot in the background, just so there's no confusion about location-- then she could wheel him back to BKK Immigration and hope for the best ( TiT ) . . .

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[ccarbaugh]

I agree - Everytime I go to Immigration, I am thinking to myself that all

this could easily and quickly be done online. But, then a lot of "officials"

wouldn't feel the huge "power-rush" that they're accustomed to.

[thaihome]

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"She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I don't know if Immigration required this or not."

He's very fortunate to have a loving and caring Thai wife who is capable of and willing to make the six pilgrimages to Thai Immigration every year and it's very considerate of Thai Immigration to accommodate him in such a generous manner.

However, if they should suddenly start to enforce the Thai Immigration Laws and things don't go quite as well as they've become accustomed to, she could always wheel his bed over to the Cambodian border and take some photos with the border Imm. agents-- might not be a bad idea to make sure the casino is in the shot in the background, just so there's no confusion about location-- then she could wheel him back to BKK Immigration and hope for the best ( TiT ) . . .

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This post alone shows you are just looking to complain and not really interested in solutions.

As others have said, you do not have to do the 90 day address report in person. You can have someone do that for you or do it by post. You can also have someone do all the paperwork for the extension and all you have to do is show up one time. They can collect the passport later for as well if the stamp is not put in right then. Also, if you are incapacitated in some way, Immigration is well known for not even requiring you to show up at all.

So the dreaded 6 times is in reality only once. The other 5 are your choices.

TH

[Ulysses G.]

The thing is that 90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money.

[beechguy]

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"She explained to them (Immigration) his situation and also took a photo of him in bed though I don't know if Immigration required this or not."

He's very fortunate to have a loving and caring Thai wife who is capable of and willing to make the six pilgrimages to Thai Immigration every year and it's very considerate of Thai Immigration to accommodate him in such a generous manner.

However, if they should suddenly start to enforce the Thai Immigration Laws and things don't go quite as well as they've become accustomed to, she could always wheel his bed over to the Cambodian border and take some photos with the border Imm. agents-- might not be a bad idea to make sure the casino is in the shot in the background, just so there's no confusion about location-- then she could wheel him back to BKK Immigration and hope for the best ( TiT ) . . .

.

This post alone shows you are just looking to complain and not really interested in solutions.

As others have said, you do not have to do the 90 day address report in person. You can have someone do that for you or do it by post. You can also have someone do all the paperwork for the extension and all you have to do is show up one time. They can collect the passport later for as well if the stamp is not put in right then. Also, if you are incapacitated in some way, Immigration is well known for not even requiring you to show up at all.

So the dreaded 6 times is in reality only once. The other 5 are your choices.

TH

Agreed, seems more interested in complaining than accepting the facts. Under normal circumstances, there is no need to go 6 times in one year. But, also agree, the 90 day reporting process could be improved upon.

[neverdie]

The thing is that 90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money.

Ohhh UG, comeon, they are trying to keep the paperwork flowing and track of whos who in the zoo

[hhgz]

You can do the 90-day reporting by mail, regardless of your age.

[Heng]

The thing is that 90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money.

Should be a mandatory 90 day report + compulsory 3-5 minute presentation in talent show format (what else are you going to watch while you're waiting) with proceeds from donations at said daily event going to charity and of course the RTP. 'Next up... Ulysses G. from Phetchaboon... now serving, #A298..."

cc: [email protected]

[SurfRider]

"This post alone shows you are just looking to complain and not really interested in solutions."

"Agreed, seems more interested in complaining than accepting the facts."

Unfortunately, you're both missing the point. This is not about personalities, complaining, or devising creative solutions -- it's about outdated, archaic, draconian, and unnecessary immigration laws. I've only been to 16 countries, but the Thai Imm. laws are the most insidious of any country that I've been to.

A few years back, I lived in the Philippines and had a business there. The only Visa reporting requirement was to take your passport to a legitimate travel agent every six months. Their runner takes that day's stack of passports to Immigration and has the stamp applied.

Cost? -- The equivalent of 500 Baht. Two-thirds of that went to Immigration and one-third to the travel agency. For an additional 65 Baht equivalent, they would deliver your passport to your residence.

No bank-books, no bank-letters, no Embassy-letters, no application to be filled out, no visa-runs, no traveling outside the country to pick up a stamp allowing you to return to the country-- In essence; No Hassles!

The Philippines has *MANY* more Expats than Thailand -- they don't see the need to make their Expats jump through draconian hoops several times per year and they don't have any problems to speak of with managing their Expats.

And yes, I'm ready for the standard retort "then why don't you go there?" - Save your keystrokes because one again, you'd be missing the point.

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[thaihome]

"This post alone shows you are just looking to complain and not really interested in solutions."

"Agreed, seems more interested in complaining than accepting the facts."

Unfortunately, you're both missing the point. This is not about personalities, complaining, or devising creative solutions -- it's about outdated, archaic, draconian, and unnecessary immigration laws. I've only been to 16 countries, but the Thai Imm. laws are the most insidious of any country that I've been to.

A few years back, I lived in the Philippines and had a business there. The only Visa reporting requirement was to take your passport to a legitimate travel agent every six months. Their runner takes that day's stack of passports to Immigration and has the stamp applied.

Cost? -- The equivalent of 500 Baht. Two-thirds of that went to Immigration and one-third to the travel agency. For an additional 65 Baht equivalent, they would deliver your passport to your residence.

No bank-books, no bank-letters, no Embassy-letters, no application to be filled out, no visa-runs, no traveling outside the country to pick up a stamp allowing you to return to the country-- In essence; No Hassles!

The Philippines has *MANY* more Expats than Thailand -- they don't see the need to make their Expats jump through draconian hoops several times per year and they don't have any problems to speak of with managing their Expats.

And yes, I'm ready for the standard retort "then why don't you go there?" - Save your keystrokes because one again, you'd be missing the point.

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No, I got your point exactly, and I think you have just made it again.

TH

[t.s]

The thing is that 90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money.

not necessarily true, especially if you are up for renewal on a non imm b for and your work permit.

i once had to cut a holiday on koh phan ngan short to return to bangkok for 1 day because i had missed a 90 day report (that is i was lazy and didn't give the agent my passport to do it for me).

i had to go to the immigration office and personally verify my adresss and status before i was able to appear a month later in person to collect my visa. that was a waste of time and money.

90 day reporting USED to be irrelevant. in the last 2 or so years not report can come back to bite you in the ass

[SurfRider]

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"No, I got your point exactly, and I think you have just made it again."

If it makes you feel better to describe the discussion of bizarre draconian unnecessary silly regulations as complaining, be my guest.

It's always fun to hear from the people who enjoy being squished by the steam roller. Maybe we can continue the discussion at some point in the future in the vegetable-wing of your local Imm. office

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[Gary A]

Perhaps the Philippines have changed their visa rules. I had a friend who lived in Cebu and he had to leave the country once a year. He always came to Thailand so he really didn't mind it.

[SurfRider]

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"90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money...not necessarily true, especially if you are up for renewal on a non imm b for and your work permit...90 day reporting USED to be irrelevant...to not report can come back to bite you in the ass"

t.s., it's none of my business, but it seems that you and Ulysses G. have a different understanding of "irrelevant" -- if 90-day reporting is irrelevant ( which I believe it is ) it should be eliminated and you could have continued your holiday on koh phan ngan without worries and never had to trek to Bangkok.

This concept might sound a bit Utopian for Thailand, but other neighboring SE Asian countries got there a long time ago.

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[Ulysses G.]

The thing is that 90 day reporting does not need to be done at all - A complete waste of time and money.

not necessarily true,

90 day reporting USED to be irrelevant. in the last 2 or so years not report can come back to bite you in the ass

Sorry, I was not clear, I meant that we should not have to do it, but since we do, it would be stupid not to.

[phetaroi]

Unfortunately, you're both missing the point. This is not about personalities, complaining, or devising creative solutions -- it's about outdated, archaic, draconian, and unnecessary immigration laws. I've only been to 16 countries, but the Thai Imm. laws are the most insidious of any country that I've been to.

I certainly wouldn't mind if we could do all our 90 day reporting via the web...or only every 6 months, or only every year, or only when we change addresses.

I guess where I part company with you is in the vocabulary you use to describe the problem:

Draconian -- excessively harsh?

Insidious -- intended to entrap; treacherous?

Gee, I took two hours to take the Skytrain to Mochit area, walked a short distance to Rasa Towers, spent about 6 minutes in the office, and returned home. Where was the draconian or insidious nature of that?

Now, if you had said annoying or inconvenient, okay.