Timesonline Refuses To Release Thaksin Interview Tape To Thailand

[george]

Timesonline refuses to release Thaksin interview tape to Thailand

Prime Minister’s Office Minister Satit

Wonghnongtaey

BANGKOK: -- A British daily has “unofficially” turned down a request by the Thai government to hand over its taped interview with fugitive, ousted former Thai prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra earlier this month which is thought to contain material considered offensive to the monarchy, according to Minister attached to the Prime Minister’s Office Satit Wonghnongtaey.

Speaking to the media on Sunday, Mr. Satit said the daily did not provide a reason why it could not provide the taped interview of Mr. Thaksin and said only that it was its right not to comply with the request. Mr. Satit said he had again ordered officials to send a request again and ask the daily to “reply officially” as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people.

The interview was conducted in Dubai where Mr. Thaksin is staying in self-imposed exile and was conducted by Richard Lloyd Parry, a British foreign correspondent who is Tokyo-based Asia editor of The Times of London.

The ex-premier, ousted in a bloodless coup in September 2006, has said his interview was “distorted” by the reporter.

Mr. Thaksin was sentenced in absentia in October last year by a Bangkok court to two years imprisonment for abuse of power by helping his then wife acquiring a parcel of prime Bangkok commercial property at a price far below its market value.

-- TNA 2009-11-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[doggie888888]

"..Mr. Satit said he had again ordered officials to send a request again and ask the daily to “reply officially” as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

Where is the evidece that the collective feelings of Thai people have been hurt? And even if this were the case, perhaps it's time for the Thai people grow up and grow thicker skins and while they are at it, get used to the fact that the rest of the world does not need to comply with silly self-serving requests of Thai politicians and thier coterie of "officials". And I am not even a Thaksin supporter!

[MSingh]

"..Mr. Satit said he had again ordered officials to send a request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

Where is the evidece that the collective feelings of Thai people have been hurt? And even if this were the case, perhaps it's time for the Thai people grow up and grow thicker skins and while they are at it, get used to the fact that the rest of the world does not need to comply with silly self-serving requests of Thai politicians and thier coterie of "officials". And I am not even a Thaksin supporter!

Thumbs Up..

[seaeagle]

"..Mr. Satit said he had again ordered officials to send a request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

Where is the evidece that the collective feelings of Thai people have been hurt? And even if this were the case, perhaps it's time for the Thai people grow up and grow thicker skins and while they are at it, get used to the fact that the rest of the world does not need to comply with silly self-serving requests of Thai politicians and thier coterie of "officials". And I am not even a Thaksin supporter!

Absolutely spot on!

But wait, doesn't "the world" begin somewhere in the north around Chiang Rai, and end just south of Phuket?

[jayboy]

The slightly frightening thing here is that the request came from the Prime Minister's Office.It is inconceivable that Abhisit himself, well aware from his long UK exposure how a free press operates, would have thought for a moment that The Times would hand over the transcript.One is left with the possibility that some half witted underling took the initiative though it would presumably have been relayed through the Thai Embassy in London.My theory however is that it was known by the PM's Office that The Times would politely tell the Thai diplomat fingered for this fun assignment to mind his own business or as it is put in technical language "go screw himself."Nevertheless the ritual move would have been completed, rather like the request for Thaksin's extradition from Cambodia, and no right wing nut job could accuse the Thai Government of not following up.

[rfukata]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

[lensta]

"..Mr. Satit said he had again ordered officials to send a request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

Where is the evidece that the collective feelings of Thai people have been hurt? And even if this were the case, perhaps it's time for the Thai people grow up and grow thicker skins and while they are at it, get used to the fact that the rest of the world does not need to comply with silly self-serving requests of Thai politicians and thier coterie of "officials". And I am not even a Thaksin supporter!

Agreed 100%

[marquess]

I agree the world does not beat to one drum, and the gov are trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill. And are really playing into Thaksin's hands!

[hammered]

No surprise there as everyone knew from when the request was made. And the request was purtely to be seen to be acting for home consumption as will the next one.

[toptuan]

I've taught journalism at the university level for six years running now, and one of the units I teach is regarding government control and censorship of the media. Disturbingly, each year I have more and more current examples of problems in Thailand to share with my students. In that time, I've had editors at the Bangkok Post and producers at Channel 11 tell me that they have no choice but to tow the government line on most controversial issues. As a westerner, it's a continual shock to me. My students handle it better than I do--like water off a duck's back--it's normal to them.

[hammered]

I've taught journalism at the university level for six years running now, and one of the units I teach is regarding government control and censorship of the media. Disturbingly, each year I have more and more current examples of problems in Thailand to share with my students. In that time, I've had editors at the Bangkok Post and producers at Channel 11 tell me that they have no choice but to tow the government line on most controversial issues. As a westerner, it's a continual shock to me. My students handle it better than I do--like water off a duck's back--it's normal to them.

Peforming content analysis of the NY Times before the Iraq invasion reveals equally troubling conclusions. The propaganda supplied by what is seen as a free media is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by what is seen as a partially censored media which in turn is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by a totally controlled media system.

The western media isnt as free as people think it is. The Thai media is worse. The important thing is to understand the reality of it all and not accept the myths.

[Nio]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Rubbish! The entire interview has been printed online and in fact it is very offensive to the Monarchy

Read the facts first before speaking

[zzaa09]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

The Thai officialdom feels that 'outside' press need to adhere to the norms of info distribution here. Suppression, censorship, manipulation, and control.

[h90]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Rubbish! The entire interview has been printed online and in fact it is very offensive to the Monarchy

Read the facts first before speaking

and it would be interesting if Thaksin really said so or if The Times lied like Thaksin is saying.

[rabcbroon]

My wife and her family and friends etc. etc. have their feelings fully intact and couldn't (collectively) give a toss.

The Times is correct in not playing infantile little games with these nobs. He said - she said -oh, thats not fair. Pathetic!

[Publicus]

Applicable principles, and in most of the West, law, are that anything published by privately owned and operated print media is the sole, exclusive and absolutely owned property of the journal and is thus unavailable to anyone, especially the government. However, an exception can occur in a criminal investigation or proceding because criminal law, which concerns public safety, is involved.

In instances of criminal law, a print news organization can either voluntarily comply with the request of the government for such property or contest the request in a court of law. The ruling by a court of law would be final and would need to be respected. This would be so whether the government were at the stage of investigating a charge or conducting a proceding in court. Normally, the court in either instance will side with the government. In other words, in criminal procedings the presumptive burden of proof generally lies with the press to prove its case that freedom of the press is of greater interest to the society than is the applicability of criminal law (also depending on the nature of the crime alleged, the accused person etc).

The question here is whether the government considers that Thaksin violated criminal law or civil law. Generally, if Thaksin were considered to be in violation of criminal law, the government should procede on that basis because doing so could make its case stronger in the UK. If the violation is considered to be of civil law, the government would need to know how the laws of the UK apply to the freedom of the press in similar cases of civil law and in applicable case precedent in the UK, especially pertaining to constitutional law. In an alleged violation of civil law, the presumptive burden on the government to prove its case is greater than that of the newspaper.

If the Thai government were serious in this matter, or if it knew the ropes, the government would go to a court of law to seek a legal ruling in Thai law. If the government were successful, its success in a Thai court of law would give the Thai government a legal basis on which it could appeal to the Times to release its taped interview with Thaksin. As we saw with the Thaksin case in the UK, the UK government was obligated to expel Thaksin by revoking his visa based on the principle that the UK government had to respect the ruling of the Thai judiciary in a finalized criminal proceding.

There of course would be the risk to the Thai government that it could lose its pleading in court, which certainly would weaken its claim to the Times. The government has to weigh this possibility. However, we have read the interview and we recognize that Thaksin trampled on Thai law so it's likely the government would win its case in a Thai court. The fact Thaksin already is a convicted criminal also would strengthen the position of the Thai government with the Times and in respect to the criminal laws of the UK, as would the fact the UK already had found itself legally obligated to the Thai government (judiciary) to respect its ruling in the Thaksin case.

If the government were serious.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Publicus

[brahmburgers]

"..Mr. Satit said .... ...the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people."

Mr. Satit sounds like a lapdog looking for some extracurricular lapping. If I was Thai, I'd take issue with him representing Thais as if they were a herd of limp-wristed dweebs.

Edited November 22, 2009 by brahmburgers

[zzaa09]

"..Mr. Satit said .... ...the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people."

Mr. Satit sounds like a lapdog looking for some extracurricular lapping. If I was Thai, I'd take issue with him representing Thais as if they were a herd of limp-wristed dweebs.

It's quite obvious {and universal} as to how public officials view their fellow common countrymen/women.

[doggie888888]

... However, we have read the interview and we recognize that Thaksin trampled on Thai law so it's likely the government would win its case in a Thai court. ...

Publicus, thank you for the very interesting piece. In relation to laws being trampled, I too have read the article on line, and I can only see one law as being potentially breached ie lese majesty. Somehow I don't think the UK will view a breach of Thailand's lese majesty laws as serious enough to compel The Times to release its tapes, but I am not a lawyer. Were there other Thai laws trampled in that interview???

[toptuan]

The western media isnt as free as people think it is. The Thai media is worse.

I had to laugh at this juxtaposition of western with Thai media. At least Americans aren't living in a country where five of the six nationwide TV stations are owned by the military. That ownership alone puts a Grand Canyon chasm between the two.

The New York Times towing the US government line in the pre-Iraq invasion days was just a lazy regurgitation of government press releases. Here, towing the government line is a necessity for survival. Just witness the scores of village radio stations shut down every year by Thailand's current military-installed government, especially in the pro-Thaksin northeast and north.

Edited November 22, 2009 by toptuan

[animatic]

No surprise there as everyone knew from when the request was made. And the request was purtely to be seen to be acting for home consumption as will the next one.

Exactly.

Effectively this is the government asking for his own words,

and if he DID say it as quoted, then that is already out there.

If he DID NOT say it as printed, then it actually exonerates Thaksin.

So for me the impression is the gov. trying to be

precise and fair on the issue by asking to exact clarification.

Thaksin slipped up big, and I don't see how this request could 'play into his hands'.

[animatic]

I've taught journalism at the university level for six years running now, and one of the units I teach is regarding government control and censorship of the media. Disturbingly, each year I have more and more current examples of problems in Thailand to share with my students. In that time, I've had editors at the Bangkok Post and producers at Channel 11 tell me that they have no choice but to tow the government line on most controversial issues. As a westerner, it's a continual shock to me. My students handle it better than I do--like water off a duck's back--it's normal to them.

Peforming content analysis of the NY Times before the Iraq invasion reveals equally troubling conclusions. The propaganda supplied by what is seen as a free media is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by what is seen as a partially censored media which in turn is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by a totally controlled media system.

The western media isnt as free as people think it is. The Thai media is worse. The important thing is to understand the reality of it all and not accept the myths.

I have a friend with decades editing at CBS and NBC and NYNEWS1,

she relayed this exact impression back then.

She just stated recently that things have significantly lightened up since Bush left.

[Publicus]

... However, we have read the interview and we recognize that Thaksin trampled on Thai law so it's likely the government would win its case in a Thai court. ...

Publicus, thank you for the very interesting piece. In relation to laws being trampled, I too have read the article on line, and I can only see one law as being potentially breached ie lese majesty. Somehow I don't think the UK will view a breach of Thailand's lese majesty laws as serious enough to compel The Times to release its tapes, but I am not a lawyer. Were there other Thai laws trampled in that interview???

Thanks and I'm not a lawyer either, only have formal study and working application of mass media law in the US. Yes, LM laws which I believe is the case the government is pursuing.

I speak of the government strengthening its request to the Times, not necessarily that the UK government would initiate legal procedings in the behalf of the Thai governmet against the paper. However, legal protections of the press in the UK are less than those provided in the US.

Also, I'd think there might be some monarchy to monarchy interests and mutual respect at play in this as well. And because the Times reply was "unofficial", I'd suspect the paper might be in less of a legal position in UK law than it might like........also in terms of the kind of pressures diplomacy can create.

[MrBrightside]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Rubbish! The entire interview has been printed online and in fact it is very offensive to the Monarchy

Read the facts first before speaking

Nio,

I have read the facts. I've read the whole interview. I have no preference for red shirts, yellow shirts, or any side of Thai politics, and I have to say as a neutral observer the interview didn't strike me as offensive to the monarchy. Can you point out EXACTLY what was said that was so offensive and "hurt the feelings of the Thai people"?

Thanks.

[george]

Do not quote anything from The Times regarding this issue. Thanks!

[zzaa09]

I've taught journalism at the university level for six years running now, and one of the units I teach is regarding government control and censorship of the media. Disturbingly, each year I have more and more current examples of problems in Thailand to share with my students. In that time, I've had editors at the Bangkok Post and producers at Channel 11 tell me that they have no choice but to tow the government line on most controversial issues. As a westerner, it's a continual shock to me. My students handle it better than I do--like water off a duck's back--it's normal to them.

Peforming content analysis of the NY Times before the Iraq invasion reveals equally troubling conclusions. The propaganda supplied by what is seen as a free media is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by what is seen as a partially censored media which in turn is far far more effective than the propaganda supplied by a totally controlled media system.

The western media isnt as free as people think it is. The Thai media is worse. The important thing is to understand the reality of it all and not accept the myths.

I have a friend with decades editing at CBS and NBC and NYNEWS1,

she relayed this exact impression back then.

She just stated recently that things have significantly lightened up since Bush left.

This too, {lightened up} has been a manipulated perception. Chances are things haven't changed for the better.

[givenall]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Damage is done. First Mr. T runs to Cambodia and then news of insult comes out. I am sure he has lost a lot of support anyways. He must really be desperate of stupid or both

[dukkha]

As a fully paid up pedant the word continually mispelt is "Kudos"....the apostrophe is incorrect...it is a greek derivative from my memory...but in the memorable words of Peace Blondie, I may be wrong as I have been a million times...but how important is it for me to bring such trivia to the attention of TV....teaching spelling for one hundred years, I just could not resist making a comment...but we all fall into the trap of self indulgence either linguistically or otherwise....must be time for this old man to hit the mattress....my concern is the alleged assemblage of one million red shirts next Sataday and the following weaks ahead..can I reccommend that people read the Sunday Bangkok Post column by Khun Voranai.....as a thai he writes some of the most insightful pieces of journalism despite the fact that he received his eductation in Texas...but is not afraid to write of his culture and politics of the country of his birth...he addresses current issues with clarity and intelligence, a refreshing change from a lot of babble that one is subjected to in the Thai Press...wonder how long he will be permitted to so...I dont think the threats to Abishit life are to be taken too lightly...I have heard that several NGO'S already have evacuation plans in place..not to be alarmed but rather to be alert.... ..Dukkha

[Nio]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Rubbish! The entire interview has been printed online and in fact it is very offensive to the Monarchy

Read the facts first before speaking

and it would be interesting if Thaksin really said so or if The Times lied like Thaksin is saying.

12 pages of interview would be quite a lot of lying if it was as you claimed? Use your head, this is not first time TK has popped off looking for sympathy

[Nio]

Kudo's to Timesonline. There is no obligation whatsoever.

"request again and ask the daily to "reply officially" as the article had hurt the feelings of the Thai people...."

what a bunch of bluff & hearsay. what the government wants to do with the tape is falsely accuse the Times.

Rubbish! The entire interview has been printed online and in fact it is very offensive to the Monarchy

Read the facts first before speaking

Nio,

I have read the facts. I've read the whole interview. I have no preference for red shirts, yellow shirts, or any side of Thai politics, and I have to say as a neutral observer the interview didn't strike me as offensive to the monarchy. Can you point out EXACTLY what was said that was so offensive and "hurt the feelings of the Thai people"?

Thanks.

Lese Majeste, before you go popping off read very carefully the Thai law and what Lese Majeste entails.

Thaksin makes several comparisons that are in plain English and several actions and this is not allowed under the law

Thailand's Criminal Code has carried a prohibition against lèse majesté since 1908^[2]. In 1932, when Thailand's monarchy ceased to be absolute and a constitution was adopted, it too included language prohibiting lèse majesté. The 2007 Constitution of Thailand, and all 17 versions since 1932, contain the clause, "The King shall be enthroned in a position of revered worship and shall not be violated. No person shall expose the King to any sort of accusation or action [wiki reference]

If you understand the law you realize that much of what TK was spouting on about was in fact a direct violation of the law.

He had requested action in clear violation of the law

TK is unfortunately guilty by this article and releasing the tapes either cements his guilt or free's him that the tapes and interview are not what he said.

Do you see TK rushing to release the tapes to prove what he said is different than what is in the interview? No you do not.