Desperate Thaksin May Go For Broke

[Jingthing]

If the court doesn't rule in Thaksin's favor, a good chunk of the money will probably end up in someone else's pocket. I'm sure the perpetrators of the coup are eagerly waiting to get their piece of the pie.

What is your evidence for this? It comes off as a flippant charge based on nothing.

<deleted>?!

Have you got reading comprehension problems? READ my post carefully. I was merely stating an opinion, not a flippant charge as you so eloquently put it. Knowing how things are in this country, I'd say it's a distinct possibility.

I think your opinion is based on no facts. OK now? Are you saying the court case should not proceed because everyone is corrupt anyway so they may as well not bother? Why not just steal the money a long time ago and not bother with a trial? Hard core nihilism if you ask me.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Jingthing

[anon8]

animatic, yes, of course.

this sounds very, very cynical, but..

say, you do want to get this T problem over, once and for all.. can't be done quietly, that is understood.

How would you go about it?

War with Cambodia? Perhaps, but only as the last resort. Close his bank account and effectivly cripple the guy? Naturally! You might want to have all conditions in place for 'perfect storm' because mister T will be very upset reading his next bank statement. So you do it close to the biggest State event of the year. in June Martial Law may seem out of place and too strong of a response, many would find. In Dec everybody agrees, Martial Law is necessary to save the State

[Supernova]

I think your opinion is based on no facts. OK now? Are you saying the court case should not proceed because everyone is corrupt anyway so they may as well not bother? Hard core nihilism if you ask me.

So the "brains" behind the coup went through all the trouble of removing Thaksin for nothing? Sorry, I find it hard to believe...

I never said the case should not proceed; I'm all for it.

[Publicus]

animatic, yes, of course.

this sounds very, very cynical, but..

say, you do want to get this T problem over, once and for all.. can't be done quietly, that is understood.

How would you go about it?

War with Cambodia? Perhaps, but only as the last resort. Close his bank account and effectivly cripple the guy? Naturally! You might want to have all conditions in place for 'perfect storm' because mister T will be very upset reading his next bank statement. So you do it close to the biggest State event of the year. in June Martial Law may seem out of place and too strong of a response, many would find. In Dec everybody agrees, Martial Law is necessary to save the State

In case you missed it, animatic is not Thaksin nor is animatic a red organizer or leader who chose to have mass 'gatherings', or chose to have them on the particular dates and time or in the various locations.

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions. We don't want violence, bloodshed, another coup, martial law or anything resembling such horrors. So whatever you are on about is quite off center.

[Publicus]

I think your opinion is based on no facts. OK now? Are you saying the court case should not proceed because everyone is corrupt anyway so they may as well not bother? Hard core nihilism if you ask me.

So the "brains" behind the coup went through all the trouble of removing Thaksin for nothing? Sorry, I find it hard to believe...

I never said the case should not proceed; I'm all for it.

It's simplistic to suggest or think the generals executed the coup primarily or in any substantial part because they were looking down the road supposedly to get their take of Thaksin's loot.

Conversely, Sonthi presently is saying a deal between the government and Thaksin might be possible by which Thaksin could recover some of loot, which is a new development I'd believe could conceivably provide fiduciary benefit to Sonthi.

All in the interests of Thailand of course.

[Supernova]

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions. We don't want violence, bloodshed, another coup, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

Bad timing indeed.

A coup is the last thing this country needs. That'll really put the nail in the coffin.

If it wasn't because of personal responsibilities, I'd be a long way from here. I've had enough of this nonsense.

[anon8]

understood, i only sayd 'of course, animatic' in agreement with his last post about Thailand and political nuance.

I should have quoted him, but I CANT stand quotes, I simply CAN'T, kilometers and kilometers of endless quotes.. and look where it got me, quite off center

To be clear, I was posting on topic: "Desperate Thaksin May Go For Broke, ANALYSIS"

[Publicus]

understood, i only sayd 'of course, animatic' in agreement with his last post about Thailand and political nuance.

I should have quoted him, but I CANT stand quotes, I simply CAN'T, kilometers and kilometers of endless quotes.. and look where it got me, quite off center

To be clear, I was posting on topic: "Desperate Thaksin May Go For Broke, ANALYSIS"

Yeh, I was wondering exactly what you'd meant, but not being familiar with your posts I took at face value what you did state. So we four are indeed in agreement the timing of the reds' street 'gatherings' is so awful as to be deliberate, calculated and reprehensible.

Cheers.

[Supernova]

It's simplistic to suggest or think the generals executed the coup primarily or in any substantial part because they were looking down the road supposedly to get their take of Thaksin's loot.

No, that's not what I meant.

I'm sure the generals had plenty of objectives set forth.

They already have the power, so what's to stop them from "looting the loot" should the courts rule against Thaksin...

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions.

<snip>

Is he also aghast at the timing of the court case?

[Publicus]

It's simplistic to suggest or think the generals executed the coup primarily or in any substantial part because they were looking down the road supposedly to get their take of Thaksin's loot.

No, that's not what I meant.

I'm sure the generals had plenty of objectives set forth.

They already have the power, so what's to stop them from "looting the loot" should the courts rule against Thaksin...

So let's get back to saying exactly what we mean, that's all. Anyone occasionally can make a quick read or a quick post and end up being less or more off center. We see what happens when we do so, including myself, so let's all agree be more attentive to saying what we mean to say / read. It saves time and unnecessary work, eh? Cheers.

And yes, should Thaksin lose all or a part of his loot a lot of the elites will be in line to stick their face in the trough to include the angels with dirty faces, the coupmakers

Edited November 24, 2009 by Publicus

[Publicus]

<snip>

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions.

<snip>

Is he also aghast at the timing of the court case?

The burden of proof is on Thaksin because he was an elected (haha!) political office holder. The case has been aired in the press. This kind of complicated white collar crime investigation takes time to fact find, analyise, organize to prosecute and to litigate. I suppose the case could have gone into, say, the middle of next year, but I doubt it could have been concluded six or even three months ago.

Thaksin if you've noticed has been out of the country (for some time now!) which further complicates any expeditious handling of the totality of the procedings.

Thaksin unsuccessfully tried to abort and to preclude the court's procedings and judgement with his assault against Asean in Pattaya and then again with his Black Songkran. So now he's back again. However, short of some imminent but unlikely deal between him and the government, his next bank statement is likely to turn his face square and deservedly so.

Edited November 24, 2009 by Publicus

[brahmburgers]

In this morning's Nation newspaper, there's a piece titled;

"'Paper' companies set up to conceal assets : DSI chief"

which mentions some of the testimony coming forth in regard to T's transgressions. In particular, the paper companies and paper trails which he clumsily put together to shuffle money around and hide assets. It also mentions a sweet deal for the Burmese generals (4 billion with deferred %) , one billion baht of which went right back to T's and Poj's pockets in the guise of AIS deals.

I commend the people who are coming forth and testifying. It takes time and courage to do so. No kidding. They're doing their civic duty, and it must be a drag to go tp downtown smog-addled Bkk for such a thankless duty.

As for who's going to benefit if/when the 2.2 billion ill-gotten $$'s are taken from T's grasp? Good question that's been bandied around on this forum. It's likely it will go to military. However, since it was stolen from the Thai people, it should be returned to them, but how? Tax breaks? (though Thais don't pay much tax, and nearly no tax on properties). Not all Thais are property owners.

I suggest environmental issues and building a few parks, but not just for Bangkok, although Bkk has a dearth of park space. How about an educational program, using celebrities, to show Thais the benefits of putting trash in bins, etc. If it was smartly put together, the celebrities would donate their time for free - in exchange for the positive publicity. That would leave money left over to start building animal shelters (NIMBY), plus enact spay/neuter programs for the tens of millions of abandoned & uncared for dogs throughout Thailand.

p.s. message to Sondhi: Please shut up about making deals with Thaksin and mentioning forgiving some or all of his transgressions. He was the top tamale. If he breaks the law, he should be punished.

Sondhi is a whimpering windbag who should shut himself in his bathroom and talk to the mirror, if he can't keep his mouth shut.

Edited November 25, 2009 by brahmburgers

[animatic]

animatic, yes, of course.

this sounds very, very cynical, but..

say, you do want to get this T problem over, once and for all.. can't be done quietly, that is understood.

How would you go about it?

War with Cambodia? Perhaps, but only as the last resort. Close his bank account and effectivly cripple the guy? Naturally! You might want to have all conditions in place for 'perfect storm' because mister T will be very upset reading his next bank statement. So you do it close to the biggest State event of the year. in June Martial Law may seem out of place and too strong of a response, many would find. In Dec everybody agrees, Martial Law is necessary to save the State

Well it IS an interesting question:

One flippant, yet workable solution was mentioned awhile back;

Hand the Mosad 40 tons of Kosher Chicken and tell them to take care of the problem discretely in Dubai.

Of course this doesn't encompass any moral element in it's calculations, on the other hand seemingly

little of that is considered on the other side too.

One way or another Thaksin while alive was headed towards this endgame since he just can give it a rest.

Chances are, like most deposed PM's of Thailand's past, if he had shut up backed off and stopped stirring the pot,

much of his headaches would have magically disappeared, but his ego couldn't settle for a huge palatial estate,

his investments to run or ruin and a comfortable quiet life of the ridiculously rich.

Worst worry will Oak screw up and have to get bailed out.

Well Dr. T. doesn't care about who he has taken to the cleaners, only about that

HE got taken to the cleaners, after a long run of winning. He got used to winning,

he LIKES winning, and the building of face and power...

snatch that away and he's got money,

but a severely bruised ego and that is essentially the tool of his undoing.

He can't just lick his wounds and chew the bone he has,

he wants the bone of the dog in his old yard too,

even if that dog is younger and stronger now.

Edited November 25, 2009 by animatic

[Artisi]

duty.

That would leave money left over to start building animal shelters (NIMBY), plus enact spay/neuter programs for the tens of millions of abandoned & uncared for dogs throughout Thailand.

Don't know about animal shelters and a spay/neuter animal programme, a one way trip to the dog pound sounds more like a far better solution.

It seems there is more important things to be done - like decent facilties and care for the abandoned and homeless kids of Thailand before they waste money on animals. I'm sure Thaksin would love to see his illgotten gains go to such good use.

[Valentine]

Looking at the news this morning it seems Mr T & some of the reds want to back off from this weekend's protests in repsect for HM & birthday celebrations. I suspect they would not have had a good turnout for exactly that reason. The assets court case will not conclude until sometime next month so do not expect a decision until the new year which leaves the reds plenty of time to regroup although I sense they have lost a lot of ground & support with the recent actions in Cambodia etc. The word traitor is cropping up more & more.

Like many my feeling is if the ill gotten gains are not returned to Mr T then I really hope they will be put to good use for the majority of the people & provide good benefits for the country as a whole.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Valentine

[WinnieTheKhwai]

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions. We don't want violence, bloodshed, another coup, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

Let me wholeheartedly join you in not ever wanting another coup, violence, bloodshed, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

That said, what's aghast about the timing? The Berlin Wall fell around this time, the Velvet revolution happened around this time, the Orange protests in Ukrain happened around this time.. What's bad about it? And, would you rather that those people also woulnd't have bothered standing up for their desire for democracy, due to 'bad timing' or otherwise? I'm genuinely puzzled why you'd feel that way.

( Also, any time is better than Songkran. I like Songkran. )

[BigC]

i thought that thaksin bought thailand out of debt when he came into power. now where is the money going to cme from to stop thailand going back into debt.

[LawnGnome]

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions. We don't want violence, bloodshed, another coup, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

Let me wholeheartedly join you in not ever wanting another coup, violence, bloodshed, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

That said, what's aghast about the timing? The Berlin Wall fell around this time, the Velvet revolution happened around this time, the Orange protests in Ukrain happened around this time.. What's bad about it? And, would you rather that those people also woulnd't have bothered standing up for their desire for democracy, due to 'bad timing' or otherwise? I'm genuinely puzzled why you'd feel that way.

( Also, any time is better than Songkran. I like Songkran. )

None of us want violence, but people who are sympathetic to groups whose members use it regularly, are contemptible. If you support the yellows, reds, blues, etc, then you are no better then those causing the violence. You can say, not all reds are bad - guess what - a lot of them are, and its guilt by association. But blocking the airport was justifiable - no it wasn't, again, slimeballs at work. I stand with the silent majority of Thais who think that reds and yellows are all idiots, and want to see some honest capable people in charge. We have a PM who is that way, and the longer he is allowed to stay there, the more good he can do to move the system in a more positive direction.

I don't wish death on anyone, but thinking about Samak's style of politics, it reminds me of something my wife had said, that we have to wait for the old generation to die away, before real change can begin to take place.

Peace please - Thaksin &lt;deleted&gt;, reds go home and honor HM, yellows &lt;deleted&gt;, PTP try to act like public servants, and not Thaksin's bitches, and all of us work to educate the young and help the less fortunate. Im out.

[LawnGnome]

i thought that thaksin bought thailand out of debt when he came into power. now where is the money going to cme from to stop thailand going back into debt.

It was Chuan and the democrats who instituted major financial changes what helped Thailand recover from the 1997 crisis. Thaksin was there at the crest of global economic times, and took advantage of it fully for personal gain, which is what a good businessman should do, but not a good leader of a nation.

[Publicus]

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions. We don't want violence, bloodshed, another coup, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

Let me wholeheartedly join you in not ever wanting another coup, violence, bloodshed, martial law or anything resembling such horrors.

That said, what's aghast about the timing? The Berlin Wall fell around this time, the Velvet revolution happened around this time, the Orange protests in Ukrain happened around this time.. What's bad about it? And, would you rather that those people also woulnd't have bothered standing up for their desire for democracy, due to 'bad timing' or otherwise? I'm genuinely puzzled why you'd feel that way.

( Also, any time is better than Songkran. I like Songkran. )

Check your calendar then get back to me.

[Samuian]

I think your opinion is based on no facts. OK now? Are you saying the court case should not proceed because everyone is corrupt anyway so they may as well not bother? Hard core nihilism if you ask me.

So the "brains" behind the coup went through all the trouble of removing Thaksin for nothing? Sorry, I find it hard to believe...

I never said the case should not proceed; I'm all for it.

It's simplistic to suggest or think the generals executed the coup primarily or in any substantial part because they were looking down the road supposedly to get their take of Thaksin's loot.

Conversely, Sonthi presently is saying a deal between the government and Thaksin might be possible by which Thaksin could recover some of loot, which is a new development I'd believe could conceivably provide fiduciary benefit to Sonthi.

All in the interests of Thailand of course.

Urgent preventive measures, executed with pinpoint accuracy, very Thai -

the man concerned was safely overseas, no pressing ugly circumstances,

no secret release, clean sweep, nobody harmed, soldiers welcomed by the residents!

The "Coup" portrayed the clear message:

"Thailand isn't for grab, not now and never ever later at any time!"

Those who keep on bringing up the baseless argument building on twisted, manufactured "facts"

that an "democratically elected government", has been replaced by a "Military junta"

well they trying to use cheap "blame it on them" polemics to fight a hopeless cause!

At the time when the coup was executed there was no Government, it was dissolved and the Prime Minister was

therewith only a "caretaker" without genuine function, he said that he will step down, but then this Rap Song titled:

Yes/No/Yes/No was performed in an endless loop...

I hope his supporters for this, remember his tears after a certain audience!

The reasons are buried sometime before the coup, what exactly happened after the elections, which he

wanted to show his reinstatement, have been boycotted!

This is genuine Democracy!

Not a pone party, absolute majority, where no vote of confidence ever could have chance... as we had experienced as a fact already, anything the opposition started was voted out by a majority - a situation like this never has it's proper way

of checks & balances!

This is in fact a sublime, hidden, de facto dictatorship! Just look at the set up and think about it!

And hewas going for the all out reinstatement for it!

It is like I wrote in an earlier post: the UDD and those people behind all this trouble, trying to make a Z out of an A,

with manipulated half truths, they try to lure people into believing that the only thing they want is "genuine democracy"!

What did their master say when he was Prime Minister?!

"we dont need democracy!"

What did he do?

Tak Bai, Krue Sae, disappeared Somchai Neelaphaiji, the "war on drugs"... the manipulation of laws for his companies gain, and, and, and...endless "real democracy"or democracy "You (he) can eat"?

Doesn't that an honest, working citizen make think?

Does he mean it when he says "I love Thailand and xxxx"! If he orders his red bouncer armies to start roits on songkrahn and soonn around a very auspicious date?

Who can trust someone who knowingly did hide his assets to take the top government position and then stated in court for his defense that he made an "honest mistake"as Radjadapisek was supposedly acquired for their children that they didn't have to drive too far for social engagements - it's all "slap, slap, slap, bang, bang, bang in the face"

with the attitude "see... I can do what I want..." it seems..

He does hardly ever mean what he says, watch his words and then compare with his deceitful actions,

enacted through mindless, enslaved people who are willing to tip this country and it's people into an abyss, where

nobody ever can know the final outcome!

Maybe for a promise, maybe for exclusive post's, doing nothing and receiving a nice salary - who in his good mind would give himself in to something like this "red cause"?

That is why I as a long term resident here in the kingdom, support ANY move to keep the balance and those people who afre ready to cause harm at random, at bay!

A good look at the facts and circumstances surrounding this specific situation tell all one needs to know!

Why would people, security forces who make an Oath to protect the country, its supreme leader and it's poeple, look on while someone slowly dismantles the existing boundaries and tries to turn them for his very own gains, on a very large scale and keeps telling the people "I will erase poverty!"?

edited to add text

Edited November 25, 2009 by Samuian

[hammered]

While finding certain things that Thaksin quite abhorent and having my own opinion on things even as a long term resident with a Thai family, I wouldnt go so far as to say what is right or wrong for the country. That is up to the Thai people to decide. There are many reds or PTP supporters and these belong to many factions with divergent ideas but one uniting aspect. There are quite a few PAD/NPP/yellow supporters. Some of those have different opinions form each other too. There are quite a lot of Democrat voters and supporters. There are as with many countires small groups of very very powerful and rich people whose influence goes beyond their numbers Etc etc

Somewhere along the line at least a majority form these diverse groups have got to come to gether and agree a set of rules that all can abide by. Until that happens there will not be any solution, and I persoanlly feel that the longer this takes the worse things will get. In this context I dont really think my opinion however strong or weak really matters although discussing things on here is at times is enlightening, often entertaining but too often fraught with anger.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

None of us want violence, but people who are sympathetic to groups whose members use it regularly, are contemptible. If you support the yellows, reds, blues, etc, then you are no better then those causing the violence. You can say, not all reds are bad - guess what - a lot of them are, and its guilt by association.

Sorry, but that's a fascist statement to make. Though you're right that for this reason I would not claim to 'support the reds', but instead spell it out in full so often.

I don't wish death on anyone, but thinking about Samak's style of politics, it reminds me of something my wife had said, that we have to wait for the old generation to die away, before real change can begin to take place.

YES, and you know what, that's a very Red statement to make. You wouldn't know it if you just read The Nation, but a person that I respect a lot wrote a rather scathing article on Samak's legacy, and he's very much a Red Shirt activist.

Google: " His role in the 1970s is very similar to the roles of ASTV fanatics like Sonti Limtongkul and Censorship Boss Satit Wongnongtuay. "

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Check your calendar then get back to me.

Nice dodge!!!

Any opinion on the larger point: If the forces of change had to look at a calendar then not a whole lot would change for the better in the world, and tyranny would still rule in many places.

Guess not? Fine with me; stick to toeing the Nation line.

[KevinB]

I'm new so would like to ask a question.

If all your assets are seized - do people (very important people) who have borrowed money from you still have to pay it back? - to the Government? or are they forgiven their debts because they borrowed from a rich "criminal"?

Well if the answer is NO - you keep the money, no questions asked and then maybe the rumours I've heard about who owes who, will be very happy and that could be the reason why this process seems to have worked much quicker than dealing with other so called "acts of corruption" in this country.

As a newie I'm amazed at most respondents lack of understanding of the class struggle in this country (and I don't mean it in a Marxian sense) - the red movement has discovered that the poor in Thailand have a vote and they know how to use it to their advantage - they, who ever their leader is, what ever colour they use, are simply not going to go away - they are here to stay - they grow everyday as the rich get richer and the poor stay marginalised and there is only one person who has ever demonstrated to them that something can be done and it doesn't matter what name he goes by. Nor does it matter what the elite class does to him or about him - even if they produce evidence none of those at the bottom of the pyramid are gonna believe IT. Even if us at the top of the pyramid know it to be true and know their hero to be full of holes. Remember he is their hero not ours - wait for the next election and see who the people choose.

In case you haven't noticed not just here in Thailand but all over Asia people are voting for change - change in a economic system that benefits a few and ignores the majority - it is not about patriotism - its not about a system of government - its a universal movement - people want better Government - people want leaders who care about them - and hey eventually, as history has shown in Europe and the Americas. the people are gonna get what they want and us elites are just gonna have to lump it and adapt.

[animatic]

understood, i only sayd 'of course, animatic' in agreement with his last post about Thailand and political nuance.

I should have quoted him, but I CANT stand quotes, I simply CAN'T, kilometers and kilometers of endless quotes.. and look where it got me, quite off center

To be clear, I was posting on topic: "Desperate Thaksin May Go For Broke, ANALYSIS"

Yeh, I was wondering exactly what you'd meant, but not being familiar with your posts I took at face value what you did state. So we four are indeed in agreement the timing of the reds' street 'gatherings' is so awful as to be deliberate, calculated and reprehensible.

Cheers.

No foul I commented on his comment above.

I can't quite fathom hios Nik, nor pronounces it,

but no problem with what he said.

40k kilos of Kosher chicken wings to the MOSAD and the case is closed.

Silently the problem goes away and is blamed on bad shellfish or some such.

Not advocating that course, but it is the simplest route to peace....

[animatic]

<snip>

animatic is among the great number of us who are aghast at the timing of the coming reds' street actions.

<snip>

Is he also aghast at the timing of the court case?

I have already said as much here.

It is blindingly obtuse to the long tern goals of Thailand.

[animatic]

i thought that thaksin bought thailand out of debt when he came into power. now where is the money going to cme from to stop thailand going back into debt.

It was Chuan and the democrats who instituted major financial changes what helped Thailand recover from the 1997 crisis. Thaksin was there at the crest of global economic times, and took advantage of it fully for personal gain, which is what a good businessman should do, but not a good leader of a nation.

Exactly.

He just got lucky for a spell, then got greedy and never looked back...

till they too a long look at him and found him wanting.

[LawnGnome]

None of us want violence, but people who are sympathetic to groups whose members use it regularly, are contemptible. If you support the yellows, reds, blues, etc, then you are no better then those causing the violence. You can say, not all reds are bad - guess what - a lot of them are, and its guilt by association.

Sorry, but that's a fascist statement to make. Though you're right that for this reason I would not claim to 'support the reds', but instead spell it out in full so often.

I don't wish death on anyone, but thinking about Samak's style of politics, it reminds me of something my wife had said, that we have to wait for the old generation to die away, before real change can begin to take place.

YES, and you know what, that's a very Red statement to make. You wouldn't know it if you just read The Nation, but a person that I respect a lot wrote a rather scathing article on Samak's legacy, and he's very much a Red Shirt activist.

Google: " His role in the 1970s is very similar to the roles of ASTV fanatics like Sonti Limtongkul and Censorship Boss Satit Wongnongtuay. "

Exactly which part do you consider "Fascist". I am curious. The part where people who support groups that harbor fugitives and thugs are themselves guilty? Yes, i can see how that might touch a nerve.