Visa Clarification - Family, Teaching English

[travelgirlut]

Our family of four -- mom, dad, 5 year old, 3 year old -- are planning on moving from the U.S. to Thailand in the end of January. The TEFL course my husband is doing offers assistance getting a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant B visa as part of the course which when he gets a job he'll get a work permit and year extension based on that. Where does that leave me as the spouse and the kids? What type of visa should I be getting, Non-Immigrant O? And I've seen on a few forums that the kids don't need to worry about visas, but I've never seen any official word on that. What U.S.-based consulates and/or embassies are the best bet for getting the visas we need? Any help or direction you could give us would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[beechguy]

You and the children should get Non-immi "O" visas, and when he obtains his one year "Extension of Stay", you and the children will then also qualify for extensions as his dependents. With the documents from his employer, you can apply for a visa at an Honorary Consulate in the U.S. Several have a reputation as being helpful, Houston, TX is one of them. A single entry visa will allow a stay of 90 days, allowing time to process the "Extension" application. Also, consider obtaining re-entry permits so that you can exit Thailand as needed, without canceling your permission to stay.

Edited November 24, 2009 by beechguy

[Lite Beer]

As said you and the children can get 12 month extensions as his dependants once he has his extension.

[lopburi3]

1. First a caution. Many teachers are not working legally and do not have extensions of stay - that status would not help you - pay is not high and there is very little security (especially if not an experienced degree holder with some experience). If he is a qualified teacher and could obtain employment at one of a handful of International schools it would be a different wage range. I hope he has read the teaching forum and understands all the pitfalls.

Second is another caution that healthcare/schooling/unemployment insurance/family support/police protection/fire protection/EMS/social networking/employment opportunities and such will not be available or at a much different level. This should not be taken as a move to the next town. Kids are good at adapting but they will have the learn a new language in this case.

2. Above posts have covered visa situation - children do need visas or visa exempt entry the same as adults - the difference is they are not charged for overstay so some, if they do not travel, stay long periods without a valid permitted to stay stamp.

[beano2274]

A TEFL does not guarantee a job in Thailand, even these so called companies cannot guarantee your husband a position. If he has a degree then another story, but if you read other teaching sites in Thailand, you will find people with Masters still looking for work.

I would do my TEFL in my home country, then start looking on the net for a position, as if you are all here and he cannot find work, then it will be very difficult.

Check out sites like:

www.ajarn.com

www.ajarnjobspace.com

Get an idea of the salaries involved, also the work hours (most places 0800 to 1700, all day everyday), then make a decision about coming over.

[travelgirlut]

I appreciate all your concerns about certifications and jobs, etc. We've got all that as much under control as we can right now. We're just trying to figure out the visas at this point.

An additional question, if the kids and I were to enter on a 60-day tourist visa, can we extend that under his work permit once he gets it, or would we have to make a visa run, get the Non-Immigrant O, and then come back and extend?

I'm also looking at maybe doing a Thai course that would also get me an ED visa. Can the kids tack onto that somehow?

Just all the random questions I keep coming up with. Thanks for all your help!

[beechguy]

Technically you are extending because of his extension of stay, not his work permit alone. It may be possible for you and the children to apply for an extension with at least 21 days remaining on the tourist visa stay, or on the 30 day extension that's possible with a tourist visa. But, it would require an extra step changing your visa status at the immigration office when applying for the extension. I don't think you being on the Ed visa is going to be an advantage for visa or stay purposes for the children

Edited November 25, 2009 by beechguy

[Mario2008]

Getting a non-immigrant visa straight away if you can would be much easier.

It is possible to convert a tourist visa to a non-immigrant visa, if you have at least 21 days left on your permission to stay. (You can always extend tourist visa with 60 days). Most (if not all) immigration office will send you to Bangkok to do that.

[lopburi3]

I believe you will be asked to obtain a non immigrant O visa at a Consulate from what I have seen reported. You take a copy of husbands passport with his extension of stay to do so. Along with marriage/birth certificates.

[travelgirlut]

Okay, so I have been crunching visa cost numbers and looking at various options and wanted to run this by everyone to see if it's possible/not too crazy. The "easiest" option is to get us all Non-Immigrant B/O visas at $175 apiece, with the possibility of a visa run after 90 days if my husband doesn't have a job/work permit yet. Total cost minus visa run, $700.

The next easiest option, but cheaper from the numbers I'm finding, would be to get the Non-Immigrant B for my husband and the 60-day tourist visas for myself and the kids. The tourist visas are free right now (does that include the dual entry ones if anyone knows?), and it will cost us 2,000 baht to convert our tourist visas to Non-Immigrant O once husband has a job/work permit. We will most likely have to pay to extend the tourist visas from 60 to 90 days at 1,900 baht apiece. And if husband doesn't have a job after 90 days, there would be a visa run on this one too. Total cost minus visa run, $544.

On either option we will have to pay the extension fees for the year extension, so I didn't factor that into the cost. Did I get all the costs in there that you all know of? I realize there is extra paperwork and trips to immigration on Option 2, but we are trying not to turn this year-long adventure into a money sucking beast. I also realize that $160 is not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of things, but think of all the food you can buy with that in Thailand! We are not hard up for money, but I do like saving it where I can. Are there difficulties in converting from a tourist visa to a Non-Immigrant? Or as long as you have the right paperwork and pay the fee will you be fine? We'll be in Bangkok, so it won't be a problem getting to the office that does this. I'll leave it at this for now. I'd love opinions/feedback on these schemes of mine. And I'm sure I'll have more questions as things come up. Thanks!

[thaiphoon]

Do not believe you can convert tourist visa to Non-O visa to extension of stay where the extension being requested is a dependant's extension piggy backing your husband's own extension of stay. (You can for some extensions of stay, but not I believe for a dependants extension). Likely you will need to start the application process for dependants extensions of stay with Non-O visas obtained from embassy/consulate abroad.

[CosmicSurfer]

Our family of four -- mom, dad, 5 year old, 3 year old -- are planning on moving from the U.S. to Thailand in the end of January. The TEFL course my husband is doing offers assistance getting a multiple-entry Non-Immigrant B visa as part of the course which when he gets a job he'll get a work permit and year extension based on that. Where does that leave me as the spouse and the kids? What type of visa should I be getting, Non-Immigrant O? And I've seen on a few forums that the kids don't need to worry about visas, but I've never seen any official word on that. What U.S.-based consulates and/or embassies are the best bet for getting the visas we need? Any help or direction you could give us would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

In reading this original post of yours, I will bluntly come out and say what a few of my fellow members have been alluding to in their responses to you, above....

This sounds like a VERY BAD IDEA to us.

I have been living and teaching in Thailand for almost 9 years... It is not all glamor, and there is NO WAY that your husband will be able to support a family of 4 here in Bangkok on a teachers salary.!!!!!

Unless there is a lot of information that has been left out of your post.... Like Your Husband has a Masters in Education... and your family is Independently wealthy.... Otherwise there is no way he will get into a Private "International" school... They mostly hire teachers in their home countries, and rarely hire teachers already here... and almost never hire anyone that is not already a licensed teacher, with a minimum of a Masters.

First.. coming here to take a Tefl course at the end of January... TEFL courses are generally one month long... meaning that taking one in Feb, March (There is probably no April course offered) would be necessary so that he is available to start teaching in May/June which is the start of the Academic year. So he will have No income until then... and aThai teachers get paid once a month at the beginning of the Following month, or end of the month worked, he would have no income until end of June or July 1.

Second, with no experience he would find it very difficult to find a job paying more then 30-35,000 baht, if real lucky, maybe 40,000 and this is at a government Elementary or high school.... and very few inexperienced teachers can make it past the First semester, let alone the first year. Also job security is NON-Existent. Thai schools are not easy to adjust to... and many teachers can't hack the lack of discipline, heat, noise, and illogical approach of the education system here.

Next... you can absolutely NOT rely on a TEFL school to get him any job at all, or if they can, it may be VERY far from the area you would like to live in, and far from any comforts you may require. Thai schools are big on promises.. but very short on keeping them. A promise to help find a job is not a Job.. just a promise! If they get you a job, you will probably have to move.. and that would mean possibly forfeiting your deposit on an apartment you already rented... deposit can be anywhere from 2-3 months, and they are required almost everywhere. If you can get it back, you may have to wait a month, so you would need to pay the new deposit while you waited for the old.

Decent apartments of a size we would normally require for a family of 4 will cost almost 25-50% of your husband whole monthly salary... add utilities, food and travel expenses... now You are BROKE !!! Unless you plan to live like a Thai.. 4 people in a one room studio with no Air Con.... and that is not EASY.. trust me. We "Farangs" have different needs and requirements.

Plus the hassles regarding your children's inadequate education, (by USA standards), their uniforms, any medical expenses (unless you buy insurance yourself) entertainment cost, etc.. etc...

OH.. forgot to mention that here it is unlikely that he will get a full 12 month salary.. most public schools only pay for months when he teaches.. No Summer.. no semester month break... 9-10 Months salary max... So there goes more income.

Next the work permit.. very elusive these days.. always promised.. not always produced.. very complicated and rules constantly changing!.. Plus Teacher's License... Just read the Teachers' forum...

To be blunt about it.... If you love your family, and don't want to stress out your marriage, either stay home in the USA, or pick another more reliable stable place to move to!!!

Sorry, but I hate to see you turn your Dream into the reality of a nightmare!

CS

[Mario2008]

Cosmic surfer makes some good points, I would even say that you must expect to earn no more than 30,000 a month if you start.

But for more information and questions I would recommend having a look in our teaching forum:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Teaching-Tha...-Forum-f46.html

[travelgirlut]

We have researched the teaching side of this quite a bit over on the Ajarn forums. We know and understand all these various things you have brought up. There are other factors that were not posted here that I didn't think were relevant to a question solely involving visas. But just to put your minds at ease, here's how things stand with us. We are coming with a large amount of savings. I have my own job that I will continue doing in Thailand. My children will not be attending school as they are very young. We don't expect the TEFL school to get us a job. They've only offered the Non-Immigrant B visa, which we'll take to eliminate the hassle of doing that ourselves/later. Since the school year starts in May and we will be doing the course in February, that gives us plenty of time to find a job. And if the market is so horridly bad, which I doubt, that we can't find a job anywhere in Thailand in a few months, then we will travel the rest of the country and call it good and come home. No big deal. The school arranges short-term lodging while taking the course, and then we plan on moving wherever the job is. So for what it's worth to everyone, there it is.

[CosmicSurfer]

Good luck!

But I hope you understand that the TEFL course can't provide you with a B visa... maybe they can get you an Ed but not a B.. only your employer can help with that.. or if you set up your own business... For the TEFL you would have to come in on a tourist visa, probably a 2 month maximum.. and when you (or your Husband) finish the course then he would go for the B after he gets a Job... only after he has one, then you and the kids could get an O....

But no extension until he gets a work permit!!!... and that is Not guarranteed these days!!.

CS

Edited November 25, 2009 by CosmicSurfer

[PeaceBlondie]

Most TEFL schools used to get their student a 12-month B visa.

[CosmicSurfer]

Most TEFL schools used to get their student a 12-month B visa.

I really don't see how TEFL schools could qualify to request them.

"B" means Business and being a student, even one training for employement is not the same as actually being employed.

I can't talk from my own personal experience here, as when I first moved to Thailand I already had a Business up and operating with a Thai partner for more than a Year. My request for a Multi entry "B" was support by all sorts of Business documentation.

I just can't understand how a TEFL school can legitamately qualify to get their students "Bs" just to study.. On the other hand they may be promising to assist in getting one AFTER the student gets a job that they may arrange.... "If" and "When" !!!

Of course TIT.. and there are always "Ways" and "Friends" that may grease things along!!!

CS

[dessyman]

I read your comments with interest. I have been involved with English language teaching for years. I am afraid he Tesol course and teaching in Thailand pays very poorly and I have a daughter in Vietnam teaching and is also very disappointed in the system. There are plenty of teachers in Thailand and if you love Thailand as we all do, it is an occupation of love only.

[ccdeleo]

Hello TravelgirlUT!

Sounds like you have everything covered for a nice adventure with your family! While everyone is trying to be helpful by discouraging you, seems a little unnecessary!

I was living here for 6 months until my Visa options ran out and I had to return to the States. I applied for a TEFL course, and they sent me a letter to submit with my passport for a Non-Immigrant B Visa, and I was granted a 1 year Visa. Still had to leave the country every three months, but that was okay.

One word of advice, try to apply for your Visa as close to your date of arrival as possible. My course was in October, I applied in August, and as soon as your Visa is approved the time starts on it, so even tho I didn't arrive here until October, I only had until August. I was able to add an additional 3 months by leaving the country before it expired (a fun little trip to Bali did the trick!), but I still lost some valuable time on my Visa. I am living in Chiang Mai, and everyone that took the course with me were able to find work. Some at schools, others at Language centers.

Good luck with your adventure!

Edited November 29, 2009 by ccdeleo

[naboo]

A lot of good advice about visas here, but terrible scaremongering about teaching!

And for the OP, I can't work out your sums....

Based on conversion of visa prices from UK-

90 day Non imm O = $75/person *3 = $225

Your husband's 12 month multiple entry will be $175. Once he gets his extension of stay, you can extend your stay to the date of expiry of his work permit as well.

Total cost - $400 + extensions

If you're sure he will get a job within 90 days, you could even get away with him applying for just a 90 day non imm B which can be extended to the length of his work permit. This would knock another $100 off your costs.

Just to confirm, to get an extension of stay (normally a year), you don't need a year long visa, just 21 days remaining on your non imm visa.

[thaiphoon]

Just to confirm, to get an extension of stay (normally a year), you don't need a year long visa, just 21 days remaining on your non imm visa.

There is no rule saying you must have 21 days left on Non-Immigration visa to apply for extension of stay. You could apply the very last day your visa is valid, but I would not recommend in case immigration call for additional documents. You do, however, need 21 days remaining on your permission to stay if you intend to go through conversion process from tourist visa/visa exempt entry to extenson of stay (assuming you meet the requirements).

[xerostar]

To the OP - you sound very sure of yourself and what you want to do.

I hope your husband feels the same way, otherwise I think you will be

putting your marriage at risk.

It's good to be positive but you seem resistant to all the good, practical

advice that has been offered.

Yes, you can say it's none of our business and that is true!

We offer this advice because we know the consequences of a bad idea

and we don't like people to suffer needlessly.

I have been in your husband's position.

I left my home country to work overseas in my wife's home country.

For my wife it was a breeze!

No stress for her, no new job, no new language, family members around, lovely.

We had two children, a 4 year old and a 1 year old.

I found work in my profession but it was a difficult, stressful job with long hours

and I had to learn a new language. The weather was incredibly cold for me too.

My 4 year old who spoke English was bullied by other children. He could not

communicate at all. He had a hard time but he eventually adjusted.

Unfortunately he lost his English along the way.

We had been married for 5 years in my home country.

After we arrived in the wife's country, our marriage lasted 6 months.

The stress of the change for me was overwhelming.

My advice, having experienced a few months of teaching in Thailand ..

Try before you buy!

Find out if you like it first before you make any huge commitment.

Come here with the idea of it being a holiday with a difference.

It will use up a slice of your savings but you'll expect that because it's a holiday!

Do some voluntary teaching! Shorter hours and less stress.

If you come here expecting to save some money or to break even, you will be

disappointed. Expect to leave poorer than when you arrived.

As mentioned by CosmicSurfer, teaching here can be a harrowing experience.

Trying to teach a class of 50, noisy, undisciplined children without air-conditioning,

in high humidity in 35 degree heat from 8.00AM to 4.00PM on a low salary is NO PICNIC!

Not to mention all the other hassles in Thailand of which there are many ..

Have you yourself tried working in those conditions?

Standing there with clothes soaked with perspiration, sweat dripping off the forehead

and stinging your eyes.

Yell loud enough to overcome the ruckus.

Only a few will be interested in what you have to say.

The rest will continue chatting with each other in Thai.

This can be very annoying to say the least.

Give them homework? A 15% response would be nice.

Most don’t bother to hand in a single sheet of paper during the whole term.

10% will merely be copying from others, duplicating the mistakes already made.

You live for those 5% of students that need you, the rest are a nuisance.

Teaching under these conditions can only be sustained by a Thai teacher who is

committed, acclimatised and born into that culture.

A single foreigner can do this job for a while. They only have themselves to support.

They can partake of the abundant night life, do some touring, learn the culture etc.

I can fully understand anyone wanting to come to Thailand for retirement (as I have)

or for a holiday. To come here with a young family to a low paid, very difficult job

without any obvious benefits makes me wonder.

In any case I wish you good luck because you will need lots of it.

[sneary7]

I guess it's my turn to add a 60% positive 40% negative comment. I have worked in a Gov. ALL BOYS High School in Bangkok. I must say I have it pretty good compared to others. It's on the BTS so no traffic nightmares, the Thai teachers are quite nice, they got my work permit with weeks of when I started and the pay is decent when the school is open. They pay by the class, I teach 22 classes a week at 700 baht an hour. They do all the lesson plans and I show up and teach. When I don't have class I do not need to be there. So Monday I have a few classes and I am home by noon. I average 50K baht a mth, and I also teach private to college kids, 6 hours a week at the same 700 an hour. Example this mth, is close to 80k, not too bad, Do I get paid for school in April when they are closed, no..But Summer programs are everywhere. DO I yell at the kids all day...no I use to, but I fixed that and now they control them self with my extra points for the whole class routine. The 5 that care, shut the rest of them up. Yes things can be expensive, and yes I think this is a single man's lifestyle, not a family. But maybe he will get lucky. Good luck to you.

[CWMcMurray]

I say go for it....

It sounds like you are not planning a long stay, but just a short adventure. It also sounds like perfect timing, your kids are still too young to go to school and you have savings to support you.

Will your husband find work as a low paid teacher, most certainly... You mentioned that you can still continue your job, so depending upon how much you are able to make, you may not need top eat into your savings.

If you need to spend some of your savings, you appear willing to do so, so I can not find any problem.

Again, I say go for it now... once your kids are old enough to go into school you will not have this opportunity again until after they graduate.