Honda Pcx

[Scuddy]

Below is a link about Hondas latest scooter technology that will hopefully answer your queries regarding the new stop/start idling system and it's impact on the PCXi battery, there is also information on the their new ACG starter/alternator and how it works.

You can even read about how many sensors there are monitoring your bikes performance for the PGM Fi, just in case you were miss guided in thinking there weren't any.

Hope it proves useful.

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/index.html

[b19bry]

well put Jack. PCXi is not the way to save fuel. Increased weight, wide tyres, PMFi means fuelinjection WITHOUT sensors, IOW not adaptive.

The start and stop thing may save fuel, but battery costs will be higher.

But who cares about fuelconsumption on these bikes? They run almost for free

finally got to compare PCXi with Elegance 135cc up the Phuket hills. same same with 100kg riders, not different.

so basicly what you get for the extra money is more, nicely sculptured plastic panels. looks nice

I told you almost exactly 100 posts back to save the 15-18k and stick to the Elegance. From your previous comments it was obvious that the PCX was not for you. There's no doubt that some people will still prefer the Elegance and I'm sure it's a fine bike, just not to everyone's taste.

By the same token the PCX is not to everyone's taste but there are those who will be glad to pay a premium and who see the extra value in the PCX, which is more than merely 'nicely sculptured plastic panels'.

b19bry, thanks for your advice, but I actually got a grey pcxi a week ago. Like the style and it feels smooth and heavy, but otherwice Elegance brakes and handles better. Idle stop is witched off most of the time to keep the battery alive.

The funny thing thai parking attendants allow this bike to park with the bigbikes, rather than the cramped small bike parking.

so far. dont know why, cause it aint bigger than Elegance, rather shorter I d say, beam is same.

Wow..... so you actually bought one ?? I really am surprised, most of your comments up to now seemed to be pretty negative about the PCX.

May I ask what convinced you to part with your money, especially since you seem so happy with the Elegance ?

Do you notice a major difference between the two when riding in traffic ?

[katabeachbum]

well put Jack. PCXi is not the way to save fuel. Increased weight, wide tyres, PMFi means fuelinjection WITHOUT sensors, IOW not adaptive.

The start and stop thing may save fuel, but battery costs will be higher.

But who cares about fuelconsumption on these bikes? They run almost for free

finally got to compare PCXi with Elegance 135cc up the Phuket hills. same same with 100kg riders, not different.

so basicly what you get for the extra money is more, nicely sculptured plastic panels. looks nice

I told you almost exactly 100 posts back to save the 15-18k and stick to the Elegance. From your previous comments it was obvious that the PCX was not for you. There's no doubt that some people will still prefer the Elegance and I'm sure it's a fine bike, just not to everyone's taste.

By the same token the PCX is not to everyone's taste but there are those who will be glad to pay a premium and who see the extra value in the PCX, which is more than merely 'nicely sculptured plastic panels'.

b19bry, thanks for your advice, but I actually got a grey pcxi a week ago. Like the style and it feels smooth and heavy, but otherwice Elegance brakes and handles better. Idle stop is witched off most of the time to keep the battery alive.

The funny thing thai parking attendants allow this bike to park with the bigbikes, rather than the cramped small bike parking.

so far. dont know why, cause it aint bigger than Elegance, rather shorter I d say, beam is same.

Wow..... so you actually bought one ?? I really am surprised, most of your comments up to now seemed to be pretty negative about the PCX.

May I ask what convinced you to part with your money, especially since you seem so happy with the Elegance ?

Do you notice a major difference between the two when riding in traffic ?

Not really negative, just asking questions why to pay more........

Convinced me? I like new stuff, innovative stuff, as said like the style. Elegance is 2 years old model by now, time to move on. Besides PCX 10% reminds me about yammy Tmax500, a bike I like a lot.

Only used it short trips, max 15 km roundtrip. Prefere Ninja 650r going further distance

In traffic they are the same. Same with(handlebar and pegs), Elegance perhaps slightly longer. Up the hills, same power. Like the large fuel tank PCXi, and the fuel cap in front of seat.

11k more than Elegance, not really worth it, but looks good

and i get to park it with the big bikes

[FrankHKT]

well put Jack. PCXi is not the way to save fuel. Increased weight, wide tyres, PMFi means fuelinjection WITHOUT sensors, IOW not adaptive.

The start and stop thing may save fuel, but battery costs will be higher.

But who cares about fuelconsumption on these bikes? They run almost for free

finally got to compare PCXi with Elegance 135cc up the Phuket hills. same same with 100kg riders, not different.

so basicly what you get for the extra money is more, nicely sculptured plastic panels. looks nice

I told you almost exactly 100 posts back to save the 15-18k and stick to the Elegance. From your previous comments it was obvious that the PCX was not for you. There's no doubt that some people will still prefer the Elegance and I'm sure it's a fine bike, just not to everyone's taste.

By the same token the PCX is not to everyone's taste but there are those who will be glad to pay a premium and who see the extra value in the PCX, which is more than merely 'nicely sculptured plastic panels'.

b19bry, thanks for your advice, but I actually got a grey pcxi a week ago. Like the style and it feels smooth and heavy, but otherwice Elegance brakes and handles better. Idle stop is witched off most of the time to keep the battery alive.

The funny thing thai parking attendants allow this bike to park with the bigbikes, rather than the cramped small bike parking.

so far. dont know why, cause it aint bigger than Elegance, rather shorter I d say, beam is same.

And how much did you pay for your PCX here in Phuket?

[jackcorbett]

I do want to be clear about one thing. I did not mean to be critical of either the 125 Honda PCxi or those who are buying them. I've said I like its style a lot. And I do like the idea of a machine that will do a better job of smoothing out speed bumps and other problems in the road. I like a machine that's more stable at speed. But I do think that even I've felt like one of the other posters here....."Yeah, just wait until Yamaha's got fuel injection in its Elegance, it will be a lot better machine then because only then will it deliver good gas mileage and power." It's a great machine as is, but so is the Honda PCxi. What I don't like are the absurdities spread by Honda or any company for that matter just to get you to buy the latest model when the latest model is no better and often a great deal worse than the last one. And why has Honda for example waited this long to introduce the 150 SHi to the American market? A lot of Americans would love that bike. But they'd like the Honda SHi 300 i even more because it will do a great job on interstates while still being small enough to easily weave in and out of traffic. I think Honda might think it would take too much away from their higher profit margin motorcycles such as 1000 c.c. plus 125 horsepower plus behemoths or Harley look a likes not to mention their crotch rockets favored by young water bugs. Even BMW is not exempt from failing to produce the bikes their customers really need and would prefer if they only produced them. Doing a little more reading on the old 650 R-65 horizontally opposed twin. At 408 pounds and balanced the way it was it wouldn't be bad in Pattaya traffic except for the width of those cylinders sticking out sideways and from the latest reading I've done on it the little 650 was a better highway cruiser than its larger 1000 c.c. machines. But BMW killed it because it only sold for $3300 and must have figured it was too good of a bike since how could BMW convince people to pony up $6000 or more for a 1000 c.c. bike touring bike when the little 650 was an even better long distance mount (Now I know why I drove mine two up in one day covering 500 miles and still wanted more). It really was that good, but I think BMW along with the other bike manufacturers were successful at convincing everyone that 650's were really too small and not much good for anything more than the occasional ride around the block.

Edited January 19, 2010 by jackcorbett

[b19bry]

Not really negative, just asking questions why to pay more........

Convinced me? I like new stuff, innovative stuff, as said like the style.

Fair enough, just seemed a tad negative to me, but we agree on some things as those are some of the reasons I chose it !

Only used it short trips, max 15 km roundtrip. Prefere Ninja 650r going further distance

Most of the time I use it for short trips downtown but I've used it for much longer trips, c.100km roundtrips or so and it's really pretty comfortable for such a small bike. I'm also hoping to get a Ninja 650 later but have to talk the wife around first !

In traffic they are the same. Same with(handlebar and pegs), Elegance perhaps slightly longer.

Thanks for agreeing with me on that. I've been saying that all along.

11k more than Elegance, not really worth it, but looks good

and i get to park it with the big bikes

Well better than 15-18k I guess, I still think it's worth it but happy trails anyway

[PeaceBlondie]

My partner bought his PXI three weeks ago. Likes it so much he's getting rid of the Nuovo Elegance. Says he gets 52 km/l.

[CMX]

We should all be delighted every time a PCX’ is purchased and applaud their success, as the more slow-witted Yamaha marketing execs will realize that they’re missing the profit boat by not introducing a fuel-injected Elegance, here and now. A new and successful price-point will have been established here. Falling sales of the present Elegance model, doubtless fetching in yen smartly to Yammie beancounters, might help them decide as well.

[Spoonman]

Nearly ran over a Farang on a Pcx today at the traffic lights down near the Banglamung Police station....... Im guessing something wrong with the stop/start deal as he appeared/sounded to be cranking the crap outta it trying to get it going.

[Richard-BKK]

Apparently, the on-off switch for the stop-idle is something what people play with at the traffic lights. But remember that the switch on the right handlebar is the off-switch.. so if your engine is in idle, you need to restart the engine manual, if you switch it to off, if the is engine-running, you need to manually switch off the engine.

So not play with the idle-stop-off/On switch at the traffic-light, if you did, you will need restart the engine manually.

Edited January 19, 2010 by Richard-BKK

[irisheyes]

Apparently, the on-off switch for the stop-idle is something what people play with at the traffic lights. But remember that the switch on the right handlebar is the off-switch.. so if your engine is in idle, you need to restart the engine manual, if you switch it to off, if the is engine-running, you need to manually switch off the engine.

So not play with the idle-stop-off/On switch at the traffic-light, if you did, you will need restart the engine manually.

Actually I do not think you are correct.. I just went and looked again at my bike to make sure..the switch turns the engine idle stop feature on/off but you cannot turn the engine off as with some off the larger bikes have. the only way to switch the engine off is with the key.

[tropo]

The Honda Wave has a big setback in moving around traffic. It has gears. That makes it clumsy in traffic compared to the automatics. The foot brake makes the comparison even worse.

Not trying to be snide, but this is only a problem for absolute beginners. Changing gears and even using a clutch (on other bikes) becomes second nature and for many is actually part of the fun...

I expected someone to return such a reply. You were nice about it but I respectfully disagree.

It doesn't matter how experienced a rider is, there is no way that anyone with gears can manoeuvre in traffic as easily as on an automatic. Second nature doesn't come into it because even an experienced rider will be caught out in the wrong gears at times, and even more so in heavy traffic where you're starting and stopping frequently. How do you manage to change down to the correct gear when you're in an emergency braking situation?

You also cannot compare a foot brake with a hand brake for speed of operation, and again the length of person's leg comes into play for that lever too. The Honda Wave wasn't designed for tall people. It was designed for short Asians.

Because the Honda Wave doesn't have a clutch it's even worse. The gears are hard to get to if you have long legs because of the angle of your foot on the gear lever. Even if you can get to them easily, they often stick and are not smooth to change.

Just in case you think I don't know the Honda Wave, it was my primary means of transport in the Philippines from 1999 until 2006. I've probably done more miles on a Wave than most other people on this forum, most of it in heavy traffic far worse than what you see in Pattaya.

I am surprised that someone would consider changing gears on a Honda Wave to be fun.

Edited January 19, 2010 by tropo

[tropo]

*deleted*

Reason: double post due to slow internet connection.

Edited January 19, 2010 by tropo

[tropo]

What I'm saying, after having ridden the bike for close on 1700kms, is that I find little difference between the PCX in this regard to the Click and Wave that I was riding and an Airblade that I tried. The main point is actually that the difference is marginal if any at all and certainly no reason to hold back in buying the bike.

We agree! The difference in manoeuvrability will be minor (depending on how "crazy" a person gets in traffic), but it would not be enough to be the decider on whether to buy one or not.

[tropo]

We should all be delighted every time a PCX’ is purchased and applaud their success, as the more slow-witted Yamaha marketing execs will realize that they’re missing the profit boat by not introducing a fuel-injected Elegance, here and now. A new and successful price-point will have been established here. Falling sales of the present Elegance model, doubtless fetching in yen smartly to Yammie beancounters, might help them decide as well.

Were you aware that the new AirBlade model has fuel-injection?...for over a year now. It's not a new Honda event.

[CMX]

Sorry. I did know about the AirBlade. I was attempting to speak to the cost of the PCX and its result in corporate thinking about the market here, that perhaps it would not only support 59 thousand baht machines but those selling at 70-72.

For myself, I could not agree more about the usefulness of auto transmissions in Thai traffic, and I admire greatly those able to shift into first gear while barely rolling at that suddenly green traffic light - I cannot do it with the clutchless manual transmission in spite of decades of experience on two-wheelers of many sizes and three sorts of xmissions. In that situation here, always find myself instantly in everybody's way as I putt away in 2nd gear. Perhaps that's just my lack of anticipation.

[PeaceBlondie]

12,000 km/year, and I find myself in the wrong gear (counting six and neutral) maybe 2 or 3 times a week - not often. I still prefer manual. But I understand the mindless comfort of automatic.

[tropo]

12,000 km/year, and I find myself in the wrong gear (counting six and neutral) maybe 2 or 3 times a week - not often. I still prefer manual. But I understand the mindless comfort of automatic.

What about the mindless safety of an automatic.

Surely you don't think about gear changing when you've been doing it a long while. It becomes just as "mindless" as riding an automatic but far less safe because in emergency situations you don't have time to think about the gears when in fact you must.

[katabeachbum]

The Honda Wave has a big setback in moving around traffic. It has gears. That makes it clumsy in traffic compared to the automatics. The foot brake makes the comparison even worse.

Not trying to be snide, but this is only a problem for absolute beginners. Changing gears and even using a clutch (on other bikes) becomes second nature and for many is actually part of the fun...

I expected someone to return such a reply. You were nice about it but I respectfully disagree.

It doesn't matter how experienced a rider is, there is no way that anyone with gears can manoeuvre in traffic as easily as on an automatic. Second nature doesn't come into it because even an experienced rider will be caught out in the wrong gears at times, and even more so in heavy traffic where you're starting and stopping frequently. How do you manage to change down to the correct gear when you're in an emergency braking situation?

You also cannot compare a foot brake with a hand brake for speed of operation, and again the length of person's leg comes into play for that lever too. The Honda Wave wasn't designed for tall people. It was designed for short Asians.

Because the Honda Wave doesn't have a clutch it's even worse. The gears are hard to get to if you have long legs because of the angle of your foot on the gear lever. Even if you can get to them easily, they often stick and are not smooth to change.

Just in case you think I don't know the Honda Wave, it was my primary means of transport in the Philippines from 1999 until 2006. I've probably done more miles on a Wave than most other people on this forum, most of it in heavy traffic far worse than what you see in Pattaya.

I am surprised that someone would consider changing gears on a Honda Wave to be fun.

Changing gear on Honda Wave does not have much with experience riding manual gear to do. The gear is opposit, 1st up rest down.

30+ years of riding bikes, 1800cc Vtwin the largest, Ninja 650r presently, I never got used to the 2 Honda Waves I had (12 k km each) before yammy autos where purchased.

Auto is absolutely superb in slow traffic, even for experinced riders, being able to consentrate fully on traffic.

[katabeachbum]

Below is a link about Hondas latest scooter technology that will hopefully answer your queries regarding the new stop/start idling system and it's impact on the PCXi battery, there is also information on the their new ACG starter/alternator and how it works.

You can even read about how many sensors there are monitoring your bikes performance for the PGM Fi, just in case you were miss guided in thinking there weren't any.

Hope it proves useful.

http://world.honda.com/motorcycle-technology/index.html

Just had some injection problem on my GF Airblade PGMFi, 6 months old/2k km. Top speed 60kmh. Seems like there is no OBD and most dealers dont have a computer to diagnose. Sometimes carbs rule, can be fixed by anyone

No doubt idlestop will drain battery riding in town. 20 minutes trip is normally sufficient to charge a battery full, but 3 idlestops with headlights on, 2 minutes each, during this 20 minutes ride, trip ends with less voltage than before starting.

Seems Honda is a bit optimistic on idlestop/charging/battery. All info is at temp 25C, leadbattery doesnt accept as much charging at 35-50C which will be the normal battery temp in LOS. However equipping idlestop with an off-switch, allows rider to keep engine running for those needed 20 minutes to fully charge battery

[CMX]

Have had the apparently atypical experience here in Chiang Mai of having two dealers offering me test drives. Did not yet try them as I want to be certain that I get on one as fully informed as possible.

Yes, the battery issue - as there is no kickstarter - is one an owner would have to confront. I was grateful for Scuddy's reference and I'm impressed by the Honda explanation and description but.... I suppose that the best bet is to keep reading here for real experiences - or risk them myself.

[FrankHKT]

@ katabeachbum:

How much did you pay for the PCX?

[PeaceBlondie]

We paid 72,000 for our PCX.

[katabeachbum]

@ katabeachbum:

How much did you pay for the PCX?

71k all included + 200 baht refundable redplate deposit

[Gippy]

Would love to hear more reports from members who have bought the PCX. I was kind of following this thread but after seeing the pictures thought the bike was ugly and too expensive. Yesterday we went to a Honda dealer to look at a new Wave, I was complaining about how small it is now when I noticed a good looking big scooter, of course it was the PCX and now it's top of our list .

[nikster]

No doubt idlestop will drain battery riding in town. 20 minutes trip is normally sufficient to charge a battery full, but 3 idlestops with headlights on, 2 minutes each, during this 20 minutes ride, trip ends with less voltage than before starting.

I seriously doubt Honda didn't think of that, and test it like crazy. It's not the first new motorcycle they've ever built....

[katabeachbum]

No doubt idlestop will drain battery riding in town. 20 minutes trip is normally sufficient to charge a battery full, but 3 idlestops with headlights on, 2 minutes each, during this 20 minutes ride, trip ends with less voltage than before starting.

I seriously doubt Honda didn't think of that, and test it like crazy. It's not the first new motorcycle they've ever built....

I belive Honda has very short experince with idlestop

12 volt 5 amph lead/acid battery.

pcxi doesnt charge battery the initial seconds after start up to give engine max performance for acceleration. then it charges 14,50 volt for an extended period of time, which if its true harms the battery in LOS temperature, but charges it quickly

while idle stop, lights still require 12volt 7,5 amp from battery, thats 15 minutes no more battery power. so 2 minutes drains 15% of battery power. several redlights here in Phuket are 190 seconds, thats 3 minutes. Stop and talk with a friend for 10 minutes and see if it starts. Its like the footrest on airblade/click, since the engine stops automaticly some dont bother to switch off with ignition key.no problem click/airblade, since lights are off too.

Iv been dealing with batteries and charging for +30 years. boats, yachts, first mobilephone in 1986 had lead battery(only 4 kg ) and of course bikes and cars. simple solution, my Pcxi has idlestop disconnected in daily short trip riding

Edited January 21, 2010 by katabeachbum

[Spoonman]

Seems kinda retarded to buy a bike at such a hefty price only to disable one of it's main selling points.

[katabeachbum]

Seems kinda retarded to buy a bike at such a hefty price only to disable one of it's main selling points.

then Honda must be retarded providing a switch on right side of handlebar to disable one of its main selling points

actually I find it intellegent by Honda to do so, realizing battery problems may occure with idlestop.

Honestly, I do not look at the idlestop feature, saving me perhaps 100 baht a year on gas, as the bikes main selling point.

I like the style and increased weight with smoother ride compared to competition. I also dont mind the remote security system, rear combibrake, wide tyres, fuel flexibility, brilliant headlights, footrest enginestop, gastank size (range) and fillercap position, underseatstorage size, all compared to competition

[FrankHKT]

@ katabeachbum:

How much did you pay for the PCX?

71k all included + 200 baht refundable redplate deposit

I paid 71k, too, but no redplate deposit.

Which type of gasoline do you recommend 91, 91Gsh, 95 or 95Gsh? Which brings the best performance?