Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

Hi, last month I asked a few Qs about the purchase/fuel usage etc etc of a new Kubota M5000su.

Many thanks to Tim (maizefarmer) for his help and advice, and it was a shame we never managed those phone calls whilst we both in the UK. - Tim please see your PM

Anyway for you budding tractor buyers, I have attached a basic P&L in excel format here for you to see along with some notes so you can see where the figures have come from. (please note the sales figure is under where it should be, as the first few jobs were discounted to get it known so people could see it out and about)

Tim - My main consern is the fuel usage, and if you have time can you cast you eyes over it. Perhaps the fuel cost are high because of new engine and will level down once the engine is worn in.???? Tim also pointed out on another thread, the cost of Kubota finace. The family did not use this route, they used a cash deposit and borrowed the balance from the Torporsor office (local farmers club / association) which is a much cheaper option by far.

I have set a yearly budget, with varying degrees of income rates as the rate charged varies per job / season and if all goes to plan the tractor will wipe its face every year and leave a handsome profit. All the family has asked me is show / teach them that they are on trac with the amount of hire they must do each month to ensure it pays for its self.

The tractor will also be used on the family land of 55 rai at cost.

Hope the attached info is useful to some of you.

T B

Profit_and_loss_statement1.xls

Posted

Your average fuel usage seems quite high. If the tractor is running constantly in a straight line using near maximum horse power, the fuel usage would probably be about right. My 31 HP Yanmar turning a 60 inch rotary tiller burns a little more than two liters an hour. Keep in mind that with small rice paddies, much of the time is spent maneuvering at just above idle speed. Running 40 meters in a straight line and having to turn around doesn't use a lot of fuel.

Posted (edited)

Yup - it will drop in due course, around 3% or so, once run in.

It's hard to evaluate fuel consumption without knowing just what type of work is been done - is it ploughing work, is it roto-tiller work on soil, or in wet paddy fields? - and tool set-up.

What gear is the machine been worked in, and at what rpm - Thai drivers love running tractors at full power rpm (with the M5000 thats around 2600 - 2700rpm) and quite often in a gear or so below what it should be working in - so the engine runs fast and the tractor runs slow[er]. They do to avoid stalling or getting stuck - it's a bad practise.

Watch the tractor at work - especially in a wet paddy field, but also on land, with a digital watch for 5 minutes - and keep a record of the total time working, distance covered, and gear/rpm the tractor is been used in - versus the total time of wheel slip - convert that to a percentage: that percentage will convert to anything between 5% - 15% of total fuel consumed wasted.

Tractors are best run at max torque rpm - which is almost always slower than max hp rpm - in the case of the M5000 I think its around 2200 - 2300rpm, and avoid high range setting on the transfer box

So thats about tractor usage - the other part of the equation which potentialy has an even bigger impact on fuel consumption, and if anything is probably even more of a "fault" in Thailand is tool setting e.g. setting the plough up incorrectly, or setting the tiller up at the incorrect "attack" angle - both will see fuel consumption go up as much as 50% - if not more.

I have witten up detailed notes in the past (more than once) regards both setting up ploughs and setting up tillers correctly, so that they do what they are designed to do, and do not result in excess fuel consumption - I'll look around and see if I can find those links.

Lastly - follow the daily maintenence schedule - religously, especially (but not only) the airfilter when used in dry/dusty conditions - air filters clog up at a rapid rate in Thailand and I know Thai tractor drivers are not too good at keeping them clean.

If you post a couple of pictures - straight on from the rear of the tractor - with the tool(s) fully raised on the 3point hitch, and with the tool(s) then let down to just just touch the ground - I'll give you a heads up regards what i think about its setting on the hitch, and how to correct the settings - if they need corerecting.

Edited by Maizefarmer
Posted

Gents....thank you, this is TV at it's best. I am looking at buying an M5000 and your comments and working spreadsheet (TB) are invaluable.

I spent some time using/abusing tractors many moons ago, but that's about the extent of my expertise and knowledge, so please excuse my silly questions.

I am in countryside Surin, so it's typical flat, single crop per year rice farming land. Intended use is working and improving our own land and hopefully enough contracting for better than break even.

1. What are the 'must have' add on's and what is just nice to have?

2. Kabota service - is it necessary to get the machine to a dealer periodically or can service be done at home? Any significant specialized tools required?

3. Contract work - I understand some tasks are charged by hour, some by rai. Any guidelines on rates and 'best' return vs work/abuse on the machine?

Again, thank you all for your input.

Posted

I've had a M5000SU for 3 or 4 yrs now and never had a problem with it. "Add-ons": I have are baler (which is profitable for contract work at 14baht/bale this yr), heavy duty plough and rotary - last yr we charged about 120baht/rai for each.

First service was with Kubota, then on our own, no special tools required.

Posted
Gents....thank you, this is TV at it's best. I am looking at buying an M5000 and your comments and working spreadsheet (TB) are invaluable.

I spent some time using/abusing tractors many moons ago, but that's about the extent of my expertise and knowledge, so please excuse my silly questions.

I am in countryside Surin, so it's typical flat, single crop per year rice farming land. Intended use is working and improving our own land and hopefully enough contracting for better than break even.

1. What are the 'must have' add on's and what is just nice to have?

2. Kabota service - is it necessary to get the machine to a dealer periodically or can service be done at home? Any significant specialized tools required?

3. Contract work - I understand some tasks are charged by hour, some by rai. Any guidelines on rates and 'best' return vs work/abuse on the machine?

Again, thank you all for your input.

Chinavet

You don't say how much land you guys will be working with your new tractor (which is one of the most imporntant issues when it comes to deciding on the size of tractor to purchase)?

Yes - the M5000 is a nice machine, and I don't say that lightly with 20years of hand on experience buying/selling and repairing tractors (it is well designed and well setup - excellent engine, gearbox and drive train), but I still feel folk are better off investing in a Ford 6610/7610 .... or similar. The Kubota gives you around 50hp, the 6610/7610 gives you anything from 75 tru to around 95hp depending on the model/year and engine installed. The Ford will consume more fuel and it wieghs a lot more, but that extra weight/size and power does convert into a significantly higher productivity rate, so at the end of the day the extra fuel cost is off-set by the extra work it is able to get through in the same amount of time.

The practical issue I have with Kubota is their maintenence cost and depreciation - basic maintencne is okay, but if something does break, it will cost you. Come sell it, the depreciation over the first year is really quite shocking.

By contrast, the Ford will cost little to maintain, parts are abundantly avaliable the length and breadth of Thailand and in 95% of cases (no matter what the part), on a same day bassis, and best of all - they keep their value and can increase in value if you buy carefully to start with.

The 6610/7610 comes in a variety of configurations - and some reading up before hand wil do you good when it comes to deciding which one to buy. There are various engine options, they come with a variety of gearboxes, hydraulic flow rates, lift capacities, some are 2WD, some are 4WD (4WD is a must), some have ZF front axles, some have Carraro front axles (Carraro is better, though ZF's will do fine - so long as it isn't a porous casting), some have been "opened" (refuled for more power - stay away unles you know your subject). So - yes, some caution is required buying a used Ford 6610/7610, but you're not likely to ever break a 6610/7610 gearbox or back axle, and they are "Thai tractor driver proof" by and large - something your M5000 will certainly not be - and if renting out or doing work for others is on the cards, then just forget the Kubota, it has to be a Ford.

....... I could go on all day about the virutes of Ford versus Kubota, all I want to say is - think it through carefully before committing yourself.

Posted

Thanks for sharing your valuable knowledge, it is really appreciated. Maizefarmer...that really is food for thought.

We only have 28 rai, but most of that needs substantial improvement, but if I'm going to start owning machinery it would help justify more land. That and lot of work to be done on the 4 rai of our house block are the primary drivers for buying. That done, contracting needs to be better than break even or I would sell the tractor. This makes your comments re depreciation very relevant.

The same issue would suggest a low hours second hand Kubota (all second hand risks considered) could be good value.

But no beating experience...I'll take a hard look at the Fords.

Thanks a bunch.

Posted

28rai .......... rather small for a big Ford, but by the same token it's even less of a justification to tie up fast depreciating capital a new M5000. I'd get the Ford, work it and also rent it out if you can to recoup the capital outlay.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.


  • Topics

  • Latest posts...

    1. 148

      Israelis in Thailand on Alert After Security Warning

    2. 1

      The Broken Promises of the Budapest Memorandum and Its Stark Lessons

    3. 1

      The Broken Promises of the Budapest Memorandum and Its Stark Lessons

    4. 0

      World War III Has Already Begun": Ukraine's Former Military Chief Warns of Global Conflict

    5. 0

      White House Retreats from Public Eye After Trump Victory

  • Popular in The Pub


×
×
  • Create New...