How Pedantic Can They Get? Another Sakon Nakhon!

[chiang mai]

OK, OK. Lopburi3 and Thaiphoon have spoken, and I retract my statement that you should put the 800K in a local fixed deposit account.

Of course you can do whatever you want with your 800K baht during the 9 months after the extension.

But the spirit of the law is that you have that 800K baht readily available in case an immediate, unexpected and large payment in country is required. For example, the Phuket ex-pat whose parked pick-up was hit by a motorcyclist at 3 a.m. and is being sued by the family for 500K baht. Immo doesn't want a retiree in that situation to do a runner to avoid a legally-binding payment -- as must have happened in the past.

As other posters have pointed out on this thread, that is also why Immo doesn't allow presentation of long-term treasury bonds or other less liquid holdings as proof of the 800K baht in your possession.

When "chiang mai" transfers his 800K baht out of the country to invest in Sterling at 3% he needs to make sure he has a secondary source of funds that can be quickly transferred to Thailand in the case of catastrophe. You can also take your 800K and run to Yawarat to buy gold bullion and then sell it back 9 months later. Or invest in the SET for 9 months. But if your investments during the year take you below 800K -- readily in hand, in country -- then this goes against the intent of the law, though it may meet the letter of it.

And I guess that was my (lame) point.

You misunderstand - I agreed with he example given and I do the same thing, I transfer money in on a regular basis, spend some of it and when visa renewal time comes along I transfer some more funds in and "top-up" at the three month mark. What I don't do is set aside 800k and leave it in a bank account in Thailand all year long, just so that I always have 800K minimum in country, that's not required, not asked for and certainly not cost a cost efficient use of funds.

[marshbags]

Agreed, personally I would rather get 3% on Sterling for nine months than 0.75% on Thai Baht for the same period, it only makes sense.

Save for the wholly improbable contingency that Sterling might take a bit of a knock, of course.

IMHO, if you can afford to do so, leave it in your Thai savings account.

By the time you,ve replenished you funds to satisfy the 3 month requirement, you could be worse off than 2.75% or whatever, after taking into account the aditional costs of replenishment.

Then add to this the inconvenience, frustation and ball aching messing about you will inevitably experience ect. ect.

It will, very importantly, also serve as an instant emergency fund should you be unfortunate enough to need any of it in a hurry.

There is so much inconsistancy re the fixed deposit method that for me it is not worth the hastle if at the end of the day, you are told by X,Y or Z that it is no longer acceptable.

Things as we all know change at a whim in lots of cases and can do in any 24 hour period, or indeed less, depending on the mood and the interpretation of the officer dealing with your applications.

Also as I have mentioned before * and K22 highlights, in some cases and mine especially re the UK £, the depreciation of the currencies can play a big part in the valuation of your voluntary leaving it on a long term basis.

Remember also to get a decent and securely guaranteed return on your investment in the your relative homeland ect. it needs to be tied up for a decent period of time and again more importantly you problably cannot access it urgently and as needed, immediately.

Should you wish to urgently access it for whatever reasons, you will be penalised and may loose a large chunk of the interest you expected to make on it.

The wise old hands Lopburi and Thaiphoon also make pertinent points and one hat does not fit all heads.

* The range for the £ baht for mine was in the 73-75 range, look at it now................53-54ish on a good day.

Not a bad return IMHO ( definitely not a gloat, just an example of what I have experienced over a longer term of leaving it here. )

Yes at times I have gone under a bit in an emergency, but I top it back up as soon as possible.

marshbags

It is down to personal and affordable choice at the end of the day, this is mine at present, while awaiting alternative methods of enhancement.

Wouldn,t it be nice if the powers that be were to introduce a dedicated and specific account, recognised and accepted by all authorities providing a reasonable return, whereby all visitors of a longer stay, could keep their visa funds in and in doing so provide an additonal incentive.

400K / 800k ect. plus a little bit for flexability and movement, mind, not one satang more.

Then again, pigs may fly................ now where was I up to, 799 thousand 999 baht, 98 satang, 99 satang, 800 K yippee !!!!!

Lo lynnnnn

[SurfRider]

.

"gimme a break, pal...then why is it that we have reports on this forum describing arbitrary 'interpretation' of the law by various local immigration offices resulting in extreme inconvenience for the extension applicant who only wants to adhere to the law as it is written?"

Very True! -- And has been suggested many times in the past, a well positioned "Bottle of Black" can sometimes work miracles . . .

.

[farangpattaya]

Complainers on TV.com want to have it both ways. If Thailand doesn't follow strict laws, they complain. If they do follow the law, they complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

Most complainers do not complain about the lack of laws, but more about the inconsistent way of interpreting the existing rules.

One year an extension of a visa is a piece of cake, the next it's a real pain in the *ss.

Take just the way of proof of address: one year a rental contract will do, th next you have to produce pictures of your home, the rooms, the street and of course, the applicant must be visible on every picture.

The rule is: Produce a proof of address, it doesn't tell how to produce it.

[lopburi3]

Those photos are not required for proof of address - they are to demonstrate you are living with spouse at that location. I have never seen reports of such photos being asked of those on retirement.

[Artisi]

Hardly pedantic. Thai civil servants cannot interpret the rules as they wish, or may want to. They have to abide by them exactly or risk losing their poorly paid jobs. ..................................

They interperet the rules everyday as they wish, like asking for things not required by the rules - medical certificates come to mind for some offices which are not part of visa extensions.

[asiawatcher]

........so he gave her his ATM card saying to her only take 10,000 Baht. She took 15,000 out.......

I would NOT have liked to have been in her shoes!!!

Are you kidding - he is lucky she didn't empty it out!

[scorpions]

The only situation I can imagine where you might need to withdraw funds from the 800K fund is if there is some personal disaster that needs immediate payment of a large sum. Otherwise you should transfer funds from your off-shore account to cover necessities.

Quite a few folks use the 800k funds for living expenses after renewing their extension of stay, and then 'top-up' the Thai bank account from abroad at least 3 months ahead of extension renewal. This avoids keeping unnecessary funds in Thailand and otherwise paying for monthly funds transfers from home country for living expenses. But everyone has their own reasons for doing it their own particular way.

Agreed, personally I would rather get 3% on Sterling for nine months than 0.75% on Thai Baht for the same period, it only makes sense.

The £ is going downhill and taken the devaluation into account your choice is worse off ...

[phetaroi]

Complainers on TV.com want to have it both ways. If Thailand doesn't follow strict laws, they complain. If they do follow the law, they complain.

Be careful what you wish for.

Most complainers do not complain about the lack of laws, but more about the inconsistent way of interpreting the existing rules.

...

I understand completely and I sympathize. Perhaps someday I will be the one suffering.

My point is this, if you had absolutely strict enforcement of all laws related to visas and extensions, I am willing to bet that there are a fair number of posters to TV who wouldn't be in Thailand today.

People who live here only through repeat border runs. That is not the intent of the law. Do the collective "we" wish it was enforced 100%?

[Jingthing]

For obvious human glitch cases like this, I think everyone would be served if they instituted a second level review process. For example, we rejected you based on this rule non-compliance, but we will now put your application under a formal review (and you will pay a fee for this). There you formally explain the reasons for the non-compliance. Under such a review process, minor human behavior type glitches could be formally allowed to pass with some extra hassle. As it is now, the officers really have no choice in such matters if for example their office policy is 3 months always above or no extension. Such a formal second level system also preserves the face of immigration. They would still be very serious about the rules, and there would still be consequences for not meeting them to the letter. Blatantly non-compliant applications would still be rejected.

[britadders28]

Hardly pedantic. Thai civil servants cannot interpret the rules as they wish, or may want to. They have to abide by them exactly or risk losing their poorly paid jobs. While I have every sympathy for the 'victim' at least he was offered a way out of it. I'd agree that keeping the 800K locked up in a fixed term account is the way to go.

How naive you really are, you will find different rules vary on different embassies etc.. You can be turned down just because the staff have had a bad day or fight with the wife

This is why more and more people are leaving thailand they are making it just too difficult

[phetaroi]

For obvious human glitch cases like this, I think everyone would be served if they instituted a second level review process. For example, we rejected you based on this rule non-compliance, but we will now put your application under a formal review (and you will pay a fee for this). There you formally explain the reasons for the non-compliance. Under such a review process, minor human behavior type glitches could be formally allowed to pass with some extra hassle. As it is now, the officers really have no choice in such matters if for example their office policy is 3 months always above or no extension. Such a formal second level system also preserves the face of immigration. They would still be very serious about the rules, and there would still be consequences for not meeting them to the letter. Blatantly non-compliant applications would still be rejected.

A very good suggestion.

[phetaroi]

How naive you really are, you will find different rules vary on different embassies etc.. You can be turned down just because the staff have had a bad day or fight with the wife

This is why more and more people are leaving thailand they are making it just too difficult

Do you have some data to show that the number of farangs leaving Thailand residence is more than the number coming in?

[bdenner]

For obvious human glitch cases like this, I think everyone would be served if they instituted a second level review process. .......

This process was in place in Nong Khai about 4 few years ago. In fact there was a sign on the wall inviting clients to see the Supervisor if he/she had a problem. I did use it when 'Mr Happy' refused to issue a 'letter of place of residence' on a very minor technicality. No worries walked out with the letter.

[Lite Beer]

Defamatory post deleted.

[darrelmv1]

If one finds themselves below the 800K (either for the 2 months required for initial extension or the 3 months for renewal) and they have some form of monthly income that when multiplied by 12 months and added to their bank deposit will exceed the 800K, they can combine the two to meet the financial requirement. Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration does not require the bank deposit be "seasoned" when using a combination of money in bank and income.

The information above is from the farang at the information desk at Chonburi Immigration as he periodically gives talks to the Expat Clubs on recent Immigration matters. He is the UK Honorary Consul and volunteers his time at the Immigration Office. Although his information is usually accurate as the same staff process the retirement extensions, things can always change if other staff are filling in or there is a change in instructions to them in the interim.

[thairet]

OP said "Yesterday a friend went into Sakon Nakhon Immigration to renew his OA (Retirement Visa) Extension for the 6th time (1st in that office) and was knocked back!"

Commiserations...I did exactly the same a few weeks ago, and applied at Chaengwattana along with passbook details showing a deficit (790000 baht) in Nov, but then topped up (Extension due 4 Jan 2010). No problem, no questions!

Guess I got lucky!

Thairet

[DtemJai]

- @ UT I-office last wk, I saw several ppl [AKA farangs] wondering why they did not a yr ext [800,000k no problem]. Commotion with their g/f, [ not reading stuff here – my read]. Also saw a Thai women, [Pattaya (sic)] married/b/f trice, within 9 yrs I’ve seen her – I got a look like: pls don’t tell anything. Have a Nice Day!

[jackspratt]

- @ UT I-office last wk, I saw several ppl [AKA farangs] wondering why they did not a yr ext [800,000k no problem]. Commotion with their g/f, [ not reading stuff here – my read]. Also saw a Thai women, [Pattaya (sic)] married/b/f trice, within 9 yrs I’ve seen her – I got a look like: pls don’t tell anything. Have a Nice Day!

I tried google translate, but that couldn't help.

Anyone?

[Mario2008]

1 off topic comment deleted.

[Jingthing]

If one finds themselves below the 800K (either for the 2 months required for initial extension or the 3 months for renewal) and they have some form of monthly income that when multiplied by 12 months and added to their bank deposit will exceed the 800K, they can combine the two to meet the financial requirement. Chonburi (Pattaya) Immigration does not require the bank deposit be "seasoned" when using a combination of money in bank and income.

The information above is from the farang at the information desk at Chonburi Immigration as he periodically gives talks to the Expat Clubs on recent Immigration matters. He is the UK Honorary Consul and volunteers his time at the Immigration Office. Although his information is usually accurate as the same staff process the retirement extensions, things can always change if other staff are filling in or there is a change in instructions to them in the interim.

That is correct information.

However, a question I have been asking for years now, and have never had answered with any authority, is if the income represented in your embassy letter is very small (for example 30K baht per year) would that still qualify to nix the money seasoning rule. For example, income letter 30K baht, banked account money 770K baht ...

[marshbags]

Logic says total income = 800k.

However we then take into account the local interpretations and then it,s anyones guess.

We really do need the government to lay out a standard set of requirements that everyone can understand and refer to when in doubt.

On the other hand rules should be flexable, but also within reason.

Hmmmmm....oh well, back to the drawing board.

marshbags

[tutsiwarrior]

Well...I for one would demand that there are an inflexible set of rules that both immigration staff and foreigners must comply with...like with this khor sor 2 business to apply for an extension based on marriage...is the bloomin' document required or not???...'quit complainin' tutsi, ye'll just haveta find out when ye make yer application...' well, <deleted> that...

on the other hand...my marriage document (issued by the Abu Dhabi embassy) is also a certificate of registration of the marriage and the marriage cannot be registered twice...this has been advised to my wife by the local registrar here in Suphan and, he's right...my marriage at the AD embassy 10 years ago is on a database somewhere in BKK...

but, what if Somchai down the immigration office says 'sorry, falang but if there is no khor sor 2 there will be no extension...'...but the local registrar says, etc., etc...'please leave falang, you are making my life complicated, falang...'...but the marriage cannot be registered twice...'no khor sor 2 means no extension, falang...'

flexibility is indicated in this instance, one would imagine...

.

[marshbags]

If applied with common sense and fairly it works both ways and does indeed allow for slight differences.

So long as there is a second source of appeal within the Immigration offices who can fairly re adjudicate the ruling, that can be seen as such, then it makes flexible meaningful and should usually be in your favour.

IMHO

marshbags

[tutsiwarrior]

yeah...presuming that common sense does prevail which is not always the case, as reported by others in nong khai, krai, whatever where aggressive fat women shout and hurl pamphlets in the faces of confused applicants...

my local office is supposed to be cool...never been there before...but the usual thai way of dealing with unusual circumstances is to simply clam up and refuse rather than admit confusion and lose face...

nothin' to do but hope fer the best...

[Mario2008]

No, it is not the blooming document. it is a document with lists the name of the people having registered the mariage, where, etc. it gives a lot more personal details and is just a pint out with a big red sgtamp on it.

[tutsiwarrior]

in my case, a document entitled 'Certificate of the Registration of Marriage' printed in both english and thai that's issued by a Thai embassy should be accepted by whatever thai agency for purposes of verifying marriage registration...has a big red stamp an' all...

but, mebbe that's too much to expect...

[rgs2001uk]

^^

TIT, just go to your local amphur and register again, painless.

[tutsiwarrior]

^^

TIT, just go to your local amphur and register again, painless.

that would mean that we would haveta get married again which I doubt anyone would accept...unless, of course, we were to be divorced first?

hmmm...who wants to buy the movie rights? ...line up Pedro Aldomovar or Woody Allen to direct...

[lopburi3]

No you do not get married. You just register the document/translation that shows that you are married at the local District Office for the record. Just as you can do the same at some Embassies (UK for sure) that gets it on the register in the UK.