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[Sabre]

Suing in Thailand is as redundant as a glass door on a <snip>

Absolutely right. Waste of money in most cases.

What needs to happen is more "ordinary people" (tourists) make comments about Thailand from within their own countries. An example headline could be something like;

"Imbeciles, please grow up.

This is what some tourists from <insert country> said after experiencing the airport shutdown in Thailand. They also said......"

So much for wishful thinking

Despite the way some of us may feel, Thailand is not the centre of the world - most of the rest of the world probably doesn't care that much about what is going on here.

[brahmburgers]

Now I just need to know who to sue for the Songkrang problems, as I was working all of those days too.

What exactly did you loose at Songkran?

I can't speak for TAWP, but I almost lost my hearing in one ear. I was driving on a secluded road with a few kids in the front seat of my pickup. They saw the big guy with the bucket full of water, and dutifully ducked. I didn't, and the guy broadsided me, point blank, through the open window. I nearly crashed. I pulled over with a pain in my ear that didn't go away for days. I was a lucky one. Many many many (mostly Thais) are injured and killed during the mayhem known as Songkran. Who to sue? Well, perhaps some people who think like Thai Airways execs can sue the Thai government for allowing Songkran to happen.

(from Brahmburgers) What have the Reds accomplished? The Yellows, with their more peaceful rallies (keeping with the spirit of civil disobedience), were able to expose Thaksin's crimes (against Thailand and the Thai people) to the extent where he got booted out. Their demonstrations also played a part in ridding Thailand of two of Thaksin's puppets, namely Samak and Somchai. One was a bulldog with a frying pan, the other was a whimper of man.

In the past months, the Reds have done nothing more than threaten violent protests, and haven't had one (violent or peaceful) of any consequence recently.

Back to the OP: If Thai Airlines can sue the Yellows for losses, then that could open the floodgates for lawsuits filed on a daily basis. - by every person, business, entity that's inconvenienced by protests. Civil protests are part of the painful birth process and sustaining of democracy. Protests are viewed subjectively. If the people on this thread thought the Yellows had a strong cause, then they would be against the lawsuit.

France, US, Russia, ....nearly any country you can name, has had its share of protests. Whether you agree with what was being protested is subjective. Yet, imagine if lawsuits were fired off for the Boston Tea Party, The Falling of the Berlin Wall, or The French Revolution - everyone would be spending all their calories on nothing but litigation for their entire working careers. Incidentally, the first court date for proceedings is August 3, 2010. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

So let me get this straight, it's all about results? The reds are wrong, because their demonstrations have not been as effective as the yellows?

So following your logic, the attacks of 9/11 were good, because they were extremely effective? If every politician and civil servant in Thailand guilty of a crime were kicked out of the country, there wouldn't be enough seats to fit them all on planes.

Perhaps we should take a look at what you're smoking instead.

Ok, I'll take the bait. First off, of course 9-11 was not good. It was an attack on my country. If I had one of those Arab perpetrators in my grip, he wouldn't look like a person when I finished with him. Ok, 'nuff of that.

I can't see how you misread my earlier post so thoroughly. I mentioned that protests are subjective and how they're viewed is also subjective. If there was a protest in your neighborhood against child molestation, you'd probably support it. If there was a protest against girls being allowed to go to school, you'd probably be opposed to it. And so on. If you want to take issue with something being stated on this thread, go ahead, but try to stick with what's being stated.

[IMA_FARANG]

Interesting....but there are things I dislike about the suit.

While I feel that there might be a reason for Thai suing to recoup it's losses, I wonder if:

1. Will passengers ever be compensated by Thai..or anyone..for the disruption pf their travel plans?

2. Will the Thai airline employees ever recieve any compenstaion if and when Thai wins it's case?

3. Or will the monetary rewards from the case just to as "bonuses" to the Thai airline management?

4. And if they do win...how and from whom will the money be collected?

I agree with making political parties accoutable for the results of their political actions, but I'm willing to bet that nothing will ever come of this case for the bnefit of Thai International...and far less for the real people of Thailand.

The whole point of seizing the airport was to get international...not just Thailand"s, attention for the PAD demands.

On that point it suceeded brillantly. Even my landlord here in Greece, who knows nothing of Thai politics and cares less about Thai politics, knows that protester's took over the airport in Bangkok. Why and who, he doesn't know or care, but he saw the story on the nightly news as it happened.

I may not agree with PAD...but the airport takeover was a brillant media coup for them wordwide.

I would like to see them compensate those who lost money and time for their actions...but I'll bet no money will find it's way to Thai International...and far less as any compensation to the poor people...Farang and Thai...who hapened to be caught up in the events.

Edited December 10, 2009 by IMA_FARANG

[schlog]

What a show, nothing will really happen

[TAWP]

Since my 'family's' business was affected by the airport closure, I hope that we get some money too. Now I just need to know who to sue for the Songkrang problems, as I was working all of those days too.

I guess that would be UDD. What exactly did you loose at Songkran?

Same as people over the airport-deal. Time = money.

[MaiChai]

If anyone knows about the Thai legal system, this kind of case could have so many twists and turns that it could still be going on when most of us are in our graves! I don't see how you could blame the whole thing on a couple of individuals since it was a mass demonstration? I mean Sondhi could not have done it on his own (or with the other 35)? So who do you blame? You can bet that you will be reading about this case for many years!

[FatherF]

If anyone knows about the Thai legal system, this kind of case could have so many twists and turns that it could still be going on when most of us are in our graves! I don't see how you could blame the whole thing on a couple of individuals since it was a mass demonstration? I mean Sondhi could not have done it on his own (or with the other 35)? So who do you blame? You can bet that you will be reading about this case for many years!

I would imagine that the suit would be against the leader(s) of the PAD, as it was they that organized/orchestrated it in the first place. But, I am certainly no expert in Thai (or any other) law.

FF

[givenall]

Good. Hope Thai Airways wins.

Whether or not you agree with the PAD cause, effectively closing an international airport wasn't the right way to go about it and the leaders should face the consequences.

They also hurt my business since my business mostly with turist. Can I also join the sue and get my losses back

[Sabre]

Ok, I'll take the bait. First off, of course 9-11 was not good. It was an attack on my country. If I had one of those Arab perpetrators in my grip, he wouldn't look like a person when I finished with him. Ok, 'nuff of that.

I can't see how you misread my earlier post so thoroughly. I mentioned that protests are subjective and how they're viewed is also subjective. If there was a protest in your neighborhood against child molestation, you'd probably support it. If there was a protest against girls being allowed to go to school, you'd probably be opposed to it. And so on. If you want to take issue with something being stated on this thread, go ahead, but try to stick with what's being stated.

OK, perhaps I misread your earlier post. But you ask what have the reds accomplished, and seem to praise the yellows because they were much more effective.

I support neither side, but you have to bear in mind that the playing field is not level. The yellows were allowed to run riot all over the Thai capital, occupying parliament house, closing down the airports ... pretty much doing whatever they pleased. They caused immense damage to Thailand's economy and reputation, and they got away with it.

On the other hand before the reds could even get warmed up the army and police - who had been so crippled during the yellow protests - came down on them with much vengeance.

If it had been the reds who tried to occupy the airports, they probably would have opened up on them with machine guns.

Yes the yellows achieved a lot more, but the game was rigged from the start.

[Sabre]

Ha, if it were not for PAD's protest I would not have found or joined this forum, or had such a grand week long full expense paid vacation at a nice 5-star hotel, compliments Thai Airways. I also understand this was not the case for many travelers that week. But what I noticed the most was that most tourists/business people that come from a "democratic" country, is how intolerant they are were when faced with democracy in action. I guess freedom is only for those that already have it, and for those that do, they can't be inconvenienced when others want it. Just my opinion:)

What you observed was the opposite of democracy in action. It was the demolition of democracy. A small group of a privileged few, backed by the old power clique of Bangkok, held the majority to ransom, effectively declaring that they would destroy the country before relinquishing control to the rural majority.

It was economic terrorism, at the very least.

[brahmburgers]

What you observed was the opposite of democracy in action. It was the demolition of democracy. A small group of a privileged few, backed by the old power clique of Bangkok, held the majority to ransom, effectively declaring that they would destroy the country before relinquishing control to the rural majority. It was economic terrorism, at the very least.

Change the words on the how you paint the Yellow take-over of the airport, it would fit for Thaksin's antics for the past several years.

A small group of privileged few (controlled and paid by Thaksin) held the majority to ransom, effectively declaring that they would destroy the country before relinquishing control to the rural majority (change to: current government).

Thaksin declared publicly, recently, that if the Thai government acquiesced to his demands (to keep him from going to jail) he would call off his Red Shirts from continuing their violent acts and threats.

Your description of the Yellows is off the mark, whereas my description of the Reds, using your words, is right on - n'est-ce pas?

The Yellows didn't partake in 'a demolition of democracy.' You believe that because perhaps it inconvenienced you or others you care about. For the most part, it was a peaceful demonstration in the tradition of civil disobedience. Even it's most violent facet was merely some punks using a van and/or luggage carts to block a road. Peaceful demonstrations are designed to cause inconvenience, as that's often what it takes to get the right people to take notice. If simply writing letters to the Editor, or submitting legislation would suffice, then they'd do it the simpler way. In demonstrations, innocents are often caught up, and it's unfortunate.

Similarly for Songkran: meant to be a public celebration, yet millions of people's jobs are jeopardized, thousands are injured, hundreds are killed. The difference between Songkran and the airport demonstration is no one was physically injured at the airport. Let's see Thai Airways sue the government for allowing Songkran to grievously disrupt Thailand's commerce.

All of us, regardless of what countries we hail from, have benefited from (or at least been affected by) demonstrations within those countries in times gone past. Ok, it's up to subjective interpretation. Perhaps some Americans would just as soon have kept paying taxes to the British royals as a Crown Colony.

Edited December 11, 2009 by brahmburgers

[rfukata]

Let's hope the suit follows through with Thai Airways, AOT, and other Entities who were directly and indirectly affected by

the PAD Rogue movement.

One Snag remains as Kasit the (FM) is named in the suit, is this guy getting off the hook? probably yes.

[jayboy]

Similarly for Songkran: meant to be a public celebration, yet millions of people's jobs are jeopardized, thousands are injured, hundreds are killed.

And with this demonstrable lie your credibility on the subject evaporates.

For those who live in the real world there is no doubt which act caused the greatest economic damage and harm to the country's reputation.

[Samuian]

Good. Hope Thai Airways wins.

Whether or not you agree with the PAD cause, effectively closing an international airport wasn't the right way to go about it and the leaders should face the consequences.

They also hurt my business since my business mostly with turist. Can I also join the sue and get my losses back

If you have water tight proof, you may have a chance larger then 0!

Tourism business has been on the decline for quite some BEFORE this happened - remember "Worldwide financial crisis"?

To blame it on the few day's of the airport closure is a try, but it may ran just that, because:

# King Power files 68 Billion Baht suit against Airports of Thailand

# Don Mueang Airport reopened costs Airports of Thailand loss 70 Million Baht a month

# Who was sued for the faulty runways?

# Who is to be sued if the airport is closed due to weather conditions - poeple lose out on businesstoo!

# Who is being sued in the case of strikes?

# Cargo Flights resumed on the 2nd. Dec.

[Oberkommando]

Who is to be sued if the airport is closed due to weather conditions - poeple lose out on businesstoo!

Airports are insured against those types of things.

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

[TAWP]

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

Your description of mostly middleage women and kids with hand-clappers as para-military is indeed ridiculous.

And what most seem to forget is that while the occupation of the airport was neither violent nor threatful, the inept PM at the time (remember who it was, often ridiculed for having smaller cojones than his wife?) was under duress due to the catastrophic handling of the down-town demonstrations that left several protesters dead and gravely wounded by the hands of the police - several that was clearly not any real physical threat in any sense of the word - and the following support at the young woman's funeral made it clear that going in hard at the airport, or even medium-hard but having it escalate to any real violence if they failed to 'talk them out' (I wonder how the police here deals with Greenpeace and human chains etc, probably not in a way we do in the west) and having both sides become more agitated as each protester tried to remain inside during removal, increased the risk that more non-hardliners in the population might start to support to yellow movement and that would be a bigger backlash than any airport being closed, costing money etc...so in many ways the lack of response towards the airport 'occupation' (sit-in) was a political one and a very clear signal of the former governments inability to handle things firmly or with any confidence. The puppet didn't feel the tugging of his strings and so remained motion-less, grinning like the fool he was.

[TAWP]

Similarly for Songkran: meant to be a public celebration, yet millions of people's jobs are jeopardized, thousands are injured, hundreds are killed.

And with this demonstrable lie your credibility on the subject evaporates.

For those who live in the real world there is no doubt which act caused the greatest economic damage and harm to the country's reputation.

I am sure the numbers quoted was referring to the faked ones screamed by Thaksin and a few of his fans on this board.

We all know now that the death-toll for any side, for all days, was lower than the number the police killed from the Yellow camp during the October demonstration. Luckily the military seemingly knows how to deal with these things better than the RTP.

[Sherlocke]

Suing in Thailand is as redundant as a glass door on a shithouse.

What needs to happen is more "ordinary people" (tourists) make comments about Thailand from within their own countries. An example headline could be something like;

"Imbeciles, please grow up.

This is what some tourists from <insert country> said after experiencing the airport shutdown in Thailand. They also said......"

So much for wishful thinking

well over all Thailand is still a good country.

When I read about the checks for foreigner at US airports, than I see the inconvenience about the airport shutdown 50 % easier.

...and the relevance of that comment is??

[Oberkommando]

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

Your description of mostly middleage women and kids with hand-clappers as para-military is indeed ridiculous.

The "middleage women and kids with hand-clappers" arrived well after the paramilitaries had blockaded and already taken control of the airport.

I should know, I drove past them into the airport as they were setting up the road blocks and there weren't any women and kids amongst them. There were however, young, fit men dressed in camo and dark clothing, armed with sticks and poles, and wearing masks and balaclavas over their faces.

Get your facts right please.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Oberkommando

[sabaijai]

Let's hope the suit follows through with Thai Airways, AOT, and other Entities who were directly and indirectly affected by

the PAD Rogue movement.

One Snag remains as Kasit the (FM) is named in the suit, is this guy getting off the hook? probably yes.

Some people think that the AOT or its chief officers should be among the defendants for their compliance in the Suvarnabhumi takeover.

There's also a line of thought that Thaksin told his cronies on the AOT board to relinquish the airport, knowing it would backfire on the PAD leadership.

[Sherlocke]

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

Your description of mostly middleage women and kids with hand-clappers as para-military is indeed ridiculous.

The "middleage women and kids with hand-clappers" arrived well after the paramilitaries had blockaded and already taken control of the airport.

I should know, I drove past them into the airport as they were setting up the road blocks and there weren't any women and kids amongst them. There were however, young, fit men dressed in camo and dark clothing, armed with sticks and poles, and wearing masks and balaclavas over their faces.

Get your facts right please.

yes - and you make sure you actually know what you were looking at too!

[Oberkommando]

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

Your description of mostly middleage women and kids with hand-clappers as para-military is indeed ridiculous.

The "middleage women and kids with hand-clappers" arrived well after the paramilitaries had blockaded and already taken control of the airport.

I should know, I drove past them into the airport as they were setting up the road blocks and there weren't any women and kids amongst them. There were however, young, fit men dressed in camo and dark clothing, armed with sticks and poles, and wearing masks and balaclavas over their faces.

Get your facts right please.

yes - and you make sure you actually know what you were looking at too!

I know exactly what I was looking at, and it was a group of men dressed as paramilitaries setting up roadblocks on the roads entering the airport.

There were no yellow-shirts present until the airport was secured by these guys, then the main crowd of the PAD marched in.

I flew out to Phnom Penh on Air Asia FD3616, one of the last flights to leave that day.

Maybe people like yourself should just not bother to comment on things they know absolutely nothing about, especially when confronted with first-hand eyewitness accounts?

[Oberkommando]

I remember thinking at the time that they were official security forces, such was their style of attire and appearance.

When I went to recover my car from the car-park several days later, the same groups of men were controlling vehicles entering and exiting through the roadblocks, however at this time they were accompanied by women with hand-clappers, albeit quite far behind the front line.

Edited December 11, 2009 by Oberkommando

[TAWP]

You give other possible reasons why the airport could close, in a vain attempt to justify the actions of a paramilitary takeover of an international airport.

Ridiculous.

Your description of mostly middleage women and kids with hand-clappers as para-military is indeed ridiculous.

The "middleage women and kids with hand-clappers" arrived well after the paramilitaries had blockaded and already taken control of the airport.

I should know, I drove past them into the airport as they were setting up the road blocks and there weren't any women and kids amongst them. There were however, young, fit men dressed in camo and dark clothing, armed with sticks and poles, and wearing masks and balaclavas over their faces.

Get your facts right please.

Your factitious comments are to be expected from your kind.

You are trying to paint it like a large group of masked and armed individuals arrived at the airport and pushed their way through and started setting up roadblocks, hindering people from reaching their check-in ques in the hall etc - that is not how it went down and we could see it basically live on TV when it happened, if you remember. I'm sure someone with more time on their hands will dig through the Thai Youtube submissions and find some good clips showing just what kind of people that was the brute of the sit-in in the airport and what kind of non-danger the normal tourists inside it was in.

Was their masked individuals outside later, setting up roadblocks when the rumor came that a big pull was about to be launched? No doubt. The hired guards isn't interested in clothing-style, as we see in both camps. They aren't concerned about PR. But they where never any force directed or mostly seen for the tourists inside. Do please remember that when this went down the yellow camp was attacked almost nightly with grenades and other things, hence the need for armed guards. Now, if only the Police would have done their job in making sure no-one could have attacked the yellow camp in the night...o-well, one could dream...

Edited December 11, 2009 by TAWP

[LawnGnome]

"Oberkommando" was a rank in the Nazi Germany armed forces. That tells me all I need know about the poster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberkommando_der_Wehrmacht

[Scott]

Just a reminder to stay on topic. Remarks about the names used on ThaiVisa are not a part of this discussion. In the previous post, which I will not delete, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

[LawnGnome]

In the previous post, which I will not delete, it's a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I wasn't aware that "Lawngnome" was a rank used in any kind of military organization. Maybe the Teletubby Expeditionary Forces.

Back on Topic, I have no problem with THAI sueing the PAD. They were crazy to disrupt the airport, and I am also not happy that judicial proceedings against them are moving so slow. That being said, I don't think I have ever seen the Thailand Judiciary move fast, ever, so this is just more of the same.

(It serves as a foil for the "Shotgun" trial of the Thai man in Cambodia. Change 'im, Try 'im, Hang 'im, Next!

[JulesMad]

Right on !

I hope Thai Air wins and I wish them all the luck!

[volk666]

The hardest part of the case would be to trace it back to the individual leaders, but no doubt they have all been caught on videotape.

The search might find something interesting:

"I remember Chamlong showing the open letter demanding that the Airport stayed open."

http://asiancorrespondent.com/bangkok-pund...it.htm#comments

[jayboy]

Some people think that the AOT or its chief officers should be among the defendants for their compliance in the Suvarnabhumi takeover.

There's also a line of thought that Thaksin told his cronies on the AOT board to relinquish the airport, knowing it would backfire on the PAD leadership.

Which people are these? Any supporting details? I suppose the PAD leadership thinks that way.Is that what you mean?

As to the "line of thought" any details on who might hold it?