We've Been Scammed On Koh Samui!

[melissabain2002]

We need urgent help and advice, particularly from anyone with a legal background or from anyone who has fallen victim to this same scam.

We are Australian citizens on holiday in Koh Samui for three more weeks. Three days ago, we were tricked into going to a resort where we were kept for half a day by salespeople from **name removed** (they stopped us on the street, gave us a scratchie card and said we had won some fantastic prize and just needed to go the resort to collect it). When we arrived, they said we needed to sit through a 90-minute presentation about the hotel before we could collect the prize. Only one hour in did they reveal they were selling a membership to their vacation club (and that the presentation would last three or four hours, not 90 minutes). They told us a great many things that would be included in this membership, which we have since found out are almost all untrue. Essentially, we were manipulated, tricked and deceived into signing a contract with them to pay AU$4,500 for a three-year membership to their club. We paid an AU$1,000 (30,000 baht) deposit. After we paid the money and signed the contract, we didn’t receive any information about what we had bought. When we went back to our hotel and investigated the company, we found out that they had lied to us about the product they sold us and they are not able to deliver on their promises. We also found that they have deceived a great number of other people in the same way, who have all explained that the product being sold is not the product that is described (hundreds and hundreds of people all over the world have written about the parent company **name removed here also**, who runs this same scam all over the world under different company names).

We contacted the company less than 48 hours after we signed the contract to say we believed the contract was null and void because we were deceived and misled into signing the contract (i.e. they used excessive pressure, manipulation and deception to force us to sign) and they did not nor are they able to deliver the product they promised to us. We demanded a refund and confirmation that the contract was cancelled. They refused to comply. They said that because clause 6 in their contract says the contract cannot be cancelled, that they will not cancel it or give us a refund. I explained that we are not asking them to cancel a valid contract, rather in fact their contract is legally invalid. But they refuse to acknowledge this.

Today we visited the Thai Bo Phut Police Office. A police officer spoke to the company on the phone and the company promised to give us a refund today. They promised this over the phone to both the police officer and to us. They said the refund would be arranged today and they would contact us again to confirm when we would receive it. Instead, late tonight we received an email saying they would not be giving us the refund.

We are going to go back to the police station tomorrow to speak with the officer who was told by the company that we would be receiving a refund. We will also be arranging for a lawyer to send a letter to the company outlining the legal reasons why their contract is invalid.

I realise we must sound incredibly naïve and even stupid to have fallen for this scam, but these people are very good at what they do!

Does anyone have any advice on what else we could be doing to ensure we get our refund? We really can’t afford to lose this $1,000. It is actually the money we had saved to pay for the hotel booking for the last week of this holiday. The only reason we used the $1,000 to pay for the deposit for what was supposed to be this incredibly fantastic membership was because they claimed they would give us 7 free nights’ accommodation. Now of course even if they are able to give us 7 nights’ accommodation (although the hotel they claimed to have booked us at has no record of our booking) we couldn’t use it since we need to get out of this contract so we don’t have to pay the rest of the $4,500.

[Garry9999]

Congratulations.

[goldfinger]

forget the lawyer and his letter,what you think, how many letters they received already??

take 5000 baht, show them the police officer, and ask him to come with you to their office(if there is one at all)

if they refund your money, you pay the policeman.

[wintermute]

This is probably the most long winded troll i've seen on thai visa.

[lung]

sorry ... but

Edited December 11, 2009 by lung

[steven100]

This is probably the most long winded troll i've seen on thai visa.

Agree .... ThaiVisa Mods ...this should be closed.

[ukrules]

This is probably the most long winded troll i've seen on thai visa.

Agree .... ThaiVisa Mods ...this should be closed.

This kind of scam happens every day all over the world, I see no reason to disbelieve it. It is very common.

[lannarebirth]

forget the lawyer and his letter,what you think, how many letters they received already??

take 5000 baht, show them the police officer, and ask him to come with you to their office(if there is one at all)

if they refund your money, you pay the policeman.

Good Advice.

[MrHammer]

Timeshare 101?

I am sorry, but I don't think there's much hope to get any money back, but by bringing it to others attention, maybe others won't end up in the same situation.

[jupiler]

This 'trick' is 20 years old! Unbelievable that theyr are still people get trapped in it!

[kensingto]

To make a complaint regarding Tourism Service Standard, Tourist Attraction Service Standard, Tour Operator and Guide Standard, Tourism Service, Tourist Facility and Safety.

Please contact :

The Office of Tourism Development, Ministry of Tourism and Sports

Address : National Stadium, Rama 1 Road Bangkok 10400 Thailand

Tel : +66 2 219 4010

Fax : +66 2 216 6906

[Gaccha]

I "have a legal background".

No 1 You seem genuinely worried about them getting the rest of the money off you besides the deposit money. Don't worry. How are you expected to pay this? By credit card? By direct debit? How? If by credit card, explain this is a fraudulent misrepresentation to the credit card company and have them cancel the payment (in other words, they will dishonour the payment). If you are simply expected to pay via a bank transfer, then don't do it.

No 2 The only way they could reasonably get the money off you is to instigate a civil action against you in Thailand, then have the debt placed against you through the Australian courts. If they should give you notice of this (i.e. you actually see papers from the court with the date of action) then defend this action but I think this very unlikely, it is simply too expensive for them to pull if off. If they should, counter-claim that they owe you the deposit as it is at least a negligent misrepresentation in civil law.

No 3 Place an official complaint with the police that is a criminal fraud. Write this complaint to the major-general of the province and cc. in the governor of the province. Get any response and use this response as part of your defence in any civil action.

No 4 Unless you are prepared to go through the courts to get the money off them then your deposit is lost. It is certainly well below the amount that would be worthwhile to sue in the UK unless you DIY. But that is just not possible here in Thailand.

No 5 The informal route with the local police officer is valid and normal. You might speak to your embassy to see if they have better connections with the police, local judges.

Wish you well.

[Nignoy]

To make a complaint regarding Tourism Service Standard, Tourist Attraction Service Standard, Tour Operator and Guide Standard, Tourism Service, Tourist Facility and Safety.

Please contact :

The Office of Tourism Development, Ministry of Tourism and Sports

Address : National Stadium, Rama 1 Road Bangkok 10400 Thailand

Tel : +66 2 219 4010

Fax : +66 2 216 6906

They have a huge garbage bin , labelled FOR ONGOING SCAM COMPLAINTS, it gets emptied twice daily, the answering service is run by bernard manning, suggest you get in touch as soon as possible

[spongeman]

To make a complaint regarding Tourism Service Standard, Tourist Attraction Service Standard, Tour Operator and Guide Standard, Tourism Service, Tourist Facility and Safety.

Please contact :

The Office of Tourism Development, Ministry of Tourism and Sports

Address : National Stadium, Rama 1 Road Bangkok 10400 Thailand

Tel : +66 2 219 4010

Fax : +66 2 216 6906

They have a huge garbage bin , labelled FOR ONGOING SCAM COMPLAINTS, it gets emptied twice daily, the answering service is run by bernard manning, suggest you get in touch as soon as possible

Mmmm. Why would anybody give up their holiday cash for anythinjg, never mind this.

How about a crackdown on foolishness ?????????

[Donnyboy]

troll or no troll

obviously the timeshare scam still works as the scammers are still at it, seen them in the past in Phuket & Samui. When approached on Samui by a farang with a ponytail showing me a hotel resort brouchure, promising me a great deal with some free nights if i attend a 'presentation' i told him no thanks!!

[nam-thip]

Are you for real or what?

[manarak]

I realise we must sound incredibly naïve and even stupid to have fallen for this scam

yes.

...

hmmm...

Now that I think about it, I have a good investment plan that I would like to offer to you.

Good returns of over 8% a year, bulletproof!

You'll have made back your 4500 AUS in no time, trust me.

PM me for details.

[needforspeed]

Agree, go back to the police offer him 25% if you recieved deposit back, good for him as likely he got 20% already yesterday .

[rick75]

Read back through Her posts, this is no troll.

Melissa as others have said, go to the same police and offer Him 25% of any money recovered, make sure you are present at negotiations or the company will most likely offer Him 50% and you lose out.

Best of luck with getting something back.

[KarenBravo]

The OP keeps saying that they were "forced" to sign.

Rubbish! was a gun pointed at their head?

[ThaiPauly]

Bad luck Melisa,

Unfortunatley I am sure that everyone trys to get their money back and they have "not paying it back" down to a fine art.

My advice for what its worth would be to suck it up and learn from it.

Sorry

[Dave the Dude]

To make a complaint regarding Tourism Service Standard, Tourist Attraction Service Standard, Tour Operator and Guide Standard, Tourism Service, Tourist Facility and Safety.

Please contact :

The Office of Tourism Development, Ministry of Tourism and Sports

Address : National Stadium, Rama 1 Road Bangkok 10400 Thailand

Tel : +66 2 219 4010

Fax : +66 2 216 6906

They have a huge garbage bin , labelled FOR ONGOING SCAM COMPLAINTS, it gets emptied twice daily, the answering service is run by bernard manning, suggest you get in touch as soon as possible

I'm impressed. They must have a mighty good phone system on Samui.........

HE'S DEAD

[ajahnlau]

It's actually called "air share". Like they say" see ya wouldn't want to be ya".

[LaoPo]

forget the lawyer and his letter,what you think, how many letters they received already??

take 5000 baht, show them the police officer, and ask him to come with you to their office(if there is one at all)

if they refund your money, you pay the policeman.

Good Advice.

I second that; the OP is not trolling I think since I read their previous posts.

OP: better talk to the police again and follow goldfinger's advise. You guys are still young and a hard lesson is learned.

Good luck.

LaoPo

[oevna]

This 'trick' is 20 years old! Unbelievable that theyr are still people get trapped in it!

True. However, as long as there are people who haven't heard about it, then it should work now as well as it did then. It's just a numbers game for the scammers. Many will be wise enough to ignore them. Others will fall for their scam.

[lioness]

This scam is very popular in Bali, no they don't point a gun at your head, but they are good at what they do and if your at all naive well... you end up like the OP.

Try the methods mentioned, I wouldn't bother with a lawyer, it will cost you far more than the 1,000 you have paid. Cancell any direct debits and or Visa payments for the future.

[geriatrickid]

Keep trying with the police. The fact that you received a sympathetic hearing and assistance speaks volumes. You are obviously not the first person the police have dealt with on this if they reacted that quickly. There is just so much they can do because you were a willing participant. All they can do is pressure the sales people.

I wouldn't count on the credit card company helping. Depends on the bank that sponsors our card. I recall an incident 2 years ago when I purchased an airline ticket on EVA through a travel agency that sold be a purported business ticket that was really a premium economy ticket. The travel agency had quite a history, unbeknownst to me including an investigation by a major TV affiliate's consumer advocacy show. ( I lived in a different city and the travel agency is found on most web engine sites. Indian owned and run out of NYC.) Despite the support of EVA and an existing history, my Visa gold card bank said, sorry, not our problem. So what if what was bait and switch. They said, go get a judgement. Of course that would have been costly and time consuming. I did it by the book, no monkey business and went after the travel agency. I got most of my money back, but these guys are still in business.

I will go one step further, it is a urban myth that credit card companies will quickly intercede on behalf of agreed to commercial transactions. If that was the case, western consumer agencies wouldn't be up to their eyeballs with credit card company complaints. That's why I think your best bet is to keep working with the sympathetic cop.

Whatever you do, be polite and appreciative with the cop. He gets a crappy salary and is going up against people that have money to burn to get out of this type of a mess. There is no incentive for the policeman to help, so consider an incentive to encourage his diligence.

[maccaroni man]

This 'trick' is 20 years old! Unbelievable that theyr are still people get trapped in it!

True. However, as long as there are people who haven't heard about it, then it should work now as well as it did then. It's just a numbers game for the scammers. Many will be wise enough to ignore them. Others will fall for their scam.

the so called scam can not work if the greed factor is not in play; as long as there are people who want something for nothing the sellers will have more than enough mooches to pitch.

the op played with fire and got burnt

[nonthaburial]

It should be compulsary that tourists to Thailand must hold a degree in "streetwise" before getting a Visa

[zorro1]

"We contacted the company less than 48 hours after we signed the contract to say we believed the contract was null and void because we were deceived and misled into signing the contract (i.e. they used excessive pressure, manipulation and deception to force us to sign) and they did not nor are they able to deliver the product they promised to us"

They couldn't deliver after 48hours so you want out? what did you expect after 48 hours, a set of keys? they "forced you to sign"? maybe the jet ski mafia guy changed jobs

Time share suits many people so it defiantly wont go away, ever. It got a bad reputation simply because everyone gets warm n fuzzy in those presentations and dont think it through so they sign and then claim force? oh puleeze you signed a legally binding contract and I assume your an adult right. I have had time share in a yacht in Oz and it was fantastic , a share in a 600k yacht which I could only dream about but guess what? only half the users kept on regularly sailing after 6 months so I had triple my normal time.

Edited December 12, 2009 by zorro1