Farm Land And Marriage

[brian1314]

Me and the GF have been together now for over 3 years. She is tired of the city life and wants to move back to the country - aprox 50km NE of Nakhon Sawan. She also wants to buy 10 rai of farm land to grow rice/oi on a rotational basis. she has been offered land at aroung 45k / rai is this a fair price or has word got out she has a farang bf? I have been told this is a good farming area with 3 crops / year.

I would like to get married but she tells me if she is married and has a farang name - eg Yo Smith - that the land people will be suspicious of the sale and will confiscate it. Because farang money used to buy. I would like to hear opinions of this. I read recently that the government has threated to confiscate any land bought with non-Thai money but have not heard of any actual cases of it being enforced.

[rgs2001uk]

I would say at that price it may well be too good to be true, good farming area with three crops per year for 45k per rai.

What type of land deed does it have?

Is it full chanote?

Two weeks ago I looked at land, on one side of the road, land starting from 50-60k and up to 80-100k per rai, these had no chanote.

On the other side of the road, land with full chanote status was offered for sale at 300k per rai, this was not an inflated farang price, a Thai friend recently paid the same price.

Who is offering the land for sale?

I ask, because you wont be the first farang who has bought a girl land her family already own, hand over a couple of million and mom heads off to the amphur office and signs the land over to the daughter.

Could you actually handle living right next to the girls family?

The land people will not confiscate it, but it makes no difference to your position if she is married or not, as the land will be in her name.

The more cynical who know Thai divorce law better than I, may comment the girl is actually covering herself in the event of a divorce. property and assets owned prior to marriage are not part of the settlement.

If however you buy this property after marriage it may well be considered joint property, and disposed of accordingly in the event of a divorce.

Never mind what the girl wants to do, what do you want to do?

Have you ever spent anytime in the back of beyond, I assume we are talking Chaiyaphum area?

Could you live there full time, where are you living at the moment and what do you do for a living if you arent able to retire?

[Gary A]

The price sounds good if the land is good and has a chanote. Your wife can own land married or not. You will be required to sign a document saying that you have no financial interest in the property. My wife changed her surname to mine and has purchased several pieces of land with no problems.

[Maizefarmer]

Putting a price on a piece of farm land is like putting a price on a used car - untill you see it and consider all the factors involved it's close to impossible to put a value on it, but that aside, earning anything but a "hand to mouth" living off 10rai of rice paddy will be neigh on impossible.

Your question regards land purchase with forex touches on just a point I have tackled in the General Topics section (in reply to an OP who feels Thai land ownership policy is racist) - it's perfectly safe and legal if you give the money to your Thai partner and she then pays for the land and registers it in her name - no prob's. If you guys are concerned about "Smith" on the land doc's - then complete the land pruchase and re-reg prior to the marrige so the and is on the books in her Thai name.

.....all the best for married life.

Edited December 12, 2009 by Maizefarmer

[Somrak]

1)Two weeks ago I looked at land, on one side of the road, land starting from 50-60k and up to 80-100k per rai, these had no chanote.

On the other side of the road, land with full chanote status was offered for sale at 300k per rai, this was not an inflated farang price, a Thai friend recently paid the same price.

Who is offering the land for sale?

a)I ask, because you wont be the first farang who has bought a girl land her family already own, hand over a couple of million and mom heads off to the amphur office and signs the land over to the daughter.

Could you actually handle living right next to the girls family?

2) @The land people will not confiscate it, but it makes no difference to your position if she is married or not, as the land will be in her name.

The more cynical who know Thai divorce law better than I, may comment the girl is actually covering herself in the event of a divorce. property and assets owned prior to marriage are not part of the settlement.

If however you buy this property after marriage it may well be considered joint property, and disposed of accordingly in the event of a divorce.

Never mind what the girl wants to do, what do you want to do?

Have you ever spent anytime in the back of beyond, I assume we are talking Chaiyaphum area?

Could you live there full time, where are you living at the moment and what do you do for a living if you arent able to retire?

1) tHIS are prices, for may bild a house. Never for start groving rise And they thai. friend may took out a credit from the bank and if he can not pay back, the bank can do nothing about (i speculate) there is nothing to take. ?

a) Never But everybody knows that she has a forigner.

2) As long you are not married, you can give a credit to your GF and and writhe this money as credit in the landpaper. This will give you

protektion for the investet money!

But this is only possible as long you are not married!

There are some farmer - websites who can help to calculate landpreises accurate .

Or very "flimsy", as i do it : Take 6-7 % of the landprice and all the other inverstments and then look if you can make the same amount of money by selling the crops. (With all the risks i woud calculate 10-1x %)

I did buy, as we all have to do , a few rai many years ago for 5 - 10k per Rai. But we had very few years, when it woud not be better let my money working alone. Ok the landprices did skyrocketing. But i think this times are over.

But if you like to do it, that your GF (and you) have something to do (and your GF may can make later any money from rising landpreises (?)) look for any moore offers. There is a lot of land fore sale!

And do not pay the price they tell you, they have to pay back to the bank. If the do, you can buy the land neary jure later cheaper from the bank!

Good luck

Edited December 12, 2009 by Somrak

[dave_boo]

I would like to get married but she tells me if she is married and has a farang name - eg Yo Smith - that the land people will be suspicious of the sale and will confiscate it. Because farang money used to buy. I would like to hear opinions of this. I read recently that the government has threated to confiscate any land bought with non-Thai money but have not heard of any actual cases of it being enforced.

I'd like to add my voice to those who have stated that it isn't a big deal; you just sign a paper that essentially says you provided the monies for her to purchase the land and you have NO financial interest in it.

I'd be worried about that price; it's too high for So Por Kor land (which technically can't be transferred) and too low for Chanote land. Here on the western end of Nakhon Sawan we usually buy at 15,000/rai (signed off by the puu yai) for So Por Kor but the price has been creeping up.

Another thing that may be something to consider is leasing some land. The wife just had someone offer to lease her 10 rai for 34,000/year. This will give your lady a chance to try her hand at farming and give you an idea of how much money will be coming out of your pocket to keep the farm running.

It's a harsh reality that farming is not a way to get rich; especially with the odds stacked against you. Our resident expert, Maizefarmer, has indicated (least ways from the way I read it) that you can expect about 40% profits from a corn harvest. That is raising it as a grain crop. So let's do the math real quick; at 1000kg/rai you'll earn all of 6000 THB (6THB/kg) each time you sell a crop. 10 rai will be 60,000THB. But only 40% of that is profit. So you'll have earned...drumroll...24,000THB. Raising corn as a cash crop would require a planting of only twice, unless you're going to pay to dry the corn out, because you need it to stand in the field until dry. So per year you'll have earned enough to recoup your investment on on rai (i.e. you'd need to farm corn at the same level--barring any famines, plagues, etc--for 10 years to earn what you spent on the 10 rai). I'm not hip to rice cultivation, but the various comments I've read on the forum seem to indicate that it's mostly production for the family.

Another forum member that has earned my respect is Khonwan (just don't believe him that it's a quick drive to his place...especially during wet season). PM him and get more info.

[Maizefarmer]

....... and maize earns more per rai than rice does!

They only way I think one is going to get by on 10 rai rice paddy with a decent income to show for it, is to fillit all in and set up greenhouses to grow something intensive - e.g. canteloupe: I know someone earning/netting between Bat 7700 - 9300 per month per rai from 12 rai of canteloupe in greenhouses. There is an element of rotation to his farming model, so for any month round the year there is 4rai ready for market.

Thats Baht 30,2k - 37,2k per month nett off 12rai .

He needs 12 rai to be able to harvest 4rai per month on a constantly rotating basis - in very simple terms each 4rai of greenhouse area has cantaloupe at a different stage of growth.

By Thai ag production standards, this is a superb and very productive farming model.

Each pair of greenhouses shares a beehive - the hive is located mid-way between the greenhouses (only about 5 meters or so between the greenhosues - lengthways). The hive has 3 entrances/exits - one leads outside to "free air", the other 2 are tunneled along clear plastic corridors - one to each greenhouse. I don't think it needs any explaining - bees are responsible for nearly all crop pollination - and pollination is required for crop production.

Irrigation is drip type - fed from about 10 or so large raised tanks, which are feed through about 3 - 4 solar powered pumps drawing up underground water. I never checked the solat panel rating, but from the size of the panels (3 for each pump) my guess is they wre around 150watt each - so around 0,45Kw per pump

Yes - thats a sizable investment which will take time to recoup, but with that set up there is no monthly energy/diesel/electricity bill to be paid.

Pesticide usage/cost? - next to zero: greenhouses are seldom totally pest free, but are close on damnit to been pest free, and when a breakout does occur, it's contained and quick to deal with.

Extended artificial lighting? - none. I asked about that: it was considered and, yes, it does increase crop yield but the extra income would be more than offset by the energy cost - so it simply wasn't worth it, even if it was solar energy based the capital outlay would be enormous.

Organic? - yes and no: some of the greenhouses are organic, but most of crop production is supported with commercial fertiliser which is fed through the drip irrigation system

Capital outlay? - good question: it's on filled in rice paddy land, so there would have been the land cost, then the cost of filling in, the cost of the greenhouses (actually they're not to expensive in Thailand as the frames and covering is all made here (and setup labour is cheap), and then the cost of setting everything up in the greenhouses (large commercial plastic paint and chemical containers are used) and last but not least the cost of the irrigation system and solar pump setup (which would have been a sizeable slice of the overall budget).

All in I would have thought one would have little change from Baht 2mill.

If you;re wondering how it is a small Thai farmer can afford to set this all up, the guy who owns this setup (Thai) has other interests - he doesn't just farm cantaloupes, so this doesn't represent his primary income - in fact, it's probably a small part of his income (a very small part!): he owns a large Hino truck dealership in Loei, and also keeps horses.

Is it worth it?

Well, you certainly aren't going to earn +/0 30k per month at current bank rates with 2mill in an account, and the land will keep it's value - so, in my opinion - yes, it's a good call, and if gauged against farming and net farm incomes for similar land sizes across Thailand, it starts to look very good.

So - can you earn a decent income from 12 rai [farming]?

Depends what you're growing and how much you're willing to invest - and, dare I say it: if those greenhouses were setup as hydroponic greenhouses, it wouldn't suprize me if you could reduce growing times and also increase crop yield to close on double these income figures.

[Sakeopete]

Keep in mind 2 factors, theft is a big problem so you will need to either live on the land if you plan on doing he green house idea or you will need to hire someone to guard it 24 hrs/day. Also if you are thinking about having Thai family members getting involved in the operation your looking for trouble, they don't think as a foreigner, Thais often don't take things seriously nor pay attention to detail this can cause stress in the relationship.

[somo]

In my part of Chayapoum, not that far from Nakhon Sawan, farming land sells for anything between 10 and 15,000 Baht/rai

although some are asking a lot more if it is near a decent tarmac road. You can also rent it for between 500 and 700 baht/rai/year.

45k sounds expensive but like maizefarmer says it is like buying a second hand car.

If you are doing it to earn money then you should try to get sound advice on the likely profit you are likely to make from whatever crop you are going to grow.

If you think you can get your money back in say 8 years then the price is probably ok.

I grow cassava and can earn around 3k Baht/year/rai from it so prices in my area make it worthwhile especially renting land.

I have heard through a family member (she saw it on the TV) that the gov. is about to change the law on So Por Kor land so that it can be legally transferred. Has anyone out there heard the samething??

I'd love to know as this whole land title thing really confuses me. My wife bought some land a couple of years ago which I assume is So Por Kor land as it is up in the hills but it had some extra paperwork (no idea what?) that meant it could be put in her name.

The local land office said it wasn't necessary to do so but our poo yai insisted the lady did it.

I have been looking at buying another parcel of land but was put off when told that there was no way the name could be changed and that sooner or later I would most likely have problems as the owner could well pass away in the next few years and her sons would claim the land!

It is one of those typical situations where the family is fighting each other so I don't want to be caught in the middle.

However if it is true that the name could be changed the I'd look at it again.

Any info appreciated especially if anyone knows if some So Por Kor land can be transferred and some not and the reason why.

[Maizefarmer]

Speculation regards SPK/G land is never ending - open any Thai paper on any day and you;re sure to see some or other editorial or comment about it.

The law is set in concreate - Samak (Bangkok mayor around 2003 if I recall correctly), Lek Pai, and more recently, Thaksin (while he was PM), all attempted to push through legislation during their time, that would make the changing of names on SPK/G land doc's easier and more flexible - and all failed by the 2nd reading.

I can't see it happening, at least not for the foreseeable future - to do so would risk pricing poor farmers out of the market - potentialy political suicide.

SPK/G rules are national (they apply to all parts of Thailand) - to detail it all here would take up a few pages (search the farming in Thailand section for "Sor Por Kor" - lots of notes come up). In short its agriculture land that is transferable within in family (e.g. father to son/daughter, husband to wife ..... not 7th cousin once removed, or uncle so and so ......) , and usualy only on the death/retirement of the lease holder, but like most rules & regs in Thailand, lots of way to skin a cat and this land changes hands/names on a regular basis - so long as the name change is never challenged, you should be fine, but if it is challenged for whatever reason a few years down the road you;re hardly likely to have much recourse.

[catwho]

gee MF do you ever sleep,you must look up everything and never stop looking,i have noticed brian 1314 has not got back to TV yet, rockmelons sound good but that setuo too xzz for me but i woild like to know where i could get some seeds for a bit of organic testing.

ta cat

[torrenova]

I know very little about land types so I'll not comment on that issue but in terms of risk and marriage, is there any reason why a Thai woman has to take the surname of her husband ?

Handing the cash for land over before marriage would preclude it from being part of any future divorce settlement whereas any purchase afterwards would.

I suppose that the non Thai could set up a loan against the land value akin to a mortgage on the chanote, with peppercorn interest payments and a balloon payment in X years. If the marriage failed, the loan would have to be repaid and presumably, certain conditions could be written into the loan contract. The land need not be sold but the ex wife would have to raise finance against the land to repay the husband, according to the original agreement. Clinical, but a potential safeguard, if it could be written up in this manner.

[BangRon]

45k seems reasonable prices as long as you get a Chanote in her name free and clear. She has to state money is hers with no falung money tied too purchase. Imagine this is true love. Rice typically generates two crops per year, if you have water access in dry season. One rai produces approx 900kg or 2,000lbs per picking. After labor and or machinery costs, 10 rai in NE area should generate about 70,000 thb per crop (7,000thb is going rate in Korat for about a ton of rice), based on past seasons rice prices (un-shooked, un-processed rice price was 8thb/1kg). Good luck getting percent or portion of this. Anyway, her having falung name does not matter, she and you the falung husband will be asked to sign a document stating money used to purchase land was from her with no foreign ownership claim to it. Basically your love will own it, and you have no claim to this land whatsoever. Good luck farmer Brian.