Ed Visa Crackdown

[tropo]

ps: americans and brits have it so much more easy to learn a new language

People with only one language are the slowest to learn a 2nd or 3rd language as their brains are not geared for languages.

Europeans who hear a lot of different languages and possibly speak 2 or 3 will pick up another language more quickly. I'll bet on it.

I'd put Brits and Americans on the bottom as the slowest learners of additional languages.

[moskito]

so if you are just intrested in the education of people, why you highlight he VISA conditions always?

I dont understand the hassle anyway. There are LAW, + Visa&Accounting offices where everyone can buy a year Visa for 25k without visiting a shool.

Cheaper and more holiday

You are dreaming, law and accounting offices where you can buy an ED visa that you can extend? Hm...., can you give us some examples because Im hearing this for the first time. I would be interested to know who is doing that as this would be indeed against the law. I would not call such a firm a law firm.

excuse me but I wrote nowhere something about 1year ED VISA ! One thing you can belive, there are these firms and I personally hate it. I have to bring the paperwork to the immigration every year since 8 years now and it will not change, even if I am married since nearly 9 years. If one have enough money, there is always a way to get a one year Visa without leaving the country.....and I doubt these firms are intrested what you want call them

bit of Topic

Germany aggravated the foreign law some time ago. Foreigners who wants to stay longer have to speak and understand some normal phrases, but its still easier to immigrate to Europe as to Thailand, even if there is absolutely NOTHING here what THEY do for US. just the other way around it is in Europe, free medical treatment, jobcenters, social fair all things Thailand doesnt provide but make it every year harder to stay for Longnosed foreigners.

Edited December 17, 2009 by moskito

[writeshack]

Ok the thread is running down, but let's get back to the basic issue -- if you want to stay here for an extended period you should make to effort to learn at least basic Thai. It's not that difficult to please these officials. You just need to show that you're willing to try, to make an effort learn and especially speak Thai. You don't have to be fluent, just make an effort, show some respect. I've found the response is always positive.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Just as the UK Border Control demand immigrants speak English, so are the Thais insisting that ED visa holders speak Thai.

This is one area where Thailand has got it right at last.

I wonder how long it will be before English teachers have to be able to speak English?

There are many I know personally whose command of written and spoken English is absolutely abysmal.

[asiawatcher]

I agree completely .. the only way is to make sure you get the visa is to go to the lessons & really learn the Thai...

Why would anyone pay for an education and then not turn up for the course? Cheaper to keep flying in and out to Singapore on cheap flights and stamp on arrival! I would rather be shopping than crunching books - pillow dictionary always works to get you past the basics id the ed visa is the only option! .

[the_webninja]

See what happens when you guys make restrictions on your Thai Visa Forum that states "you cannot use Thai except in the Thai Language Section". Maybe you should have thought about that before, you might have passed.

Looks to me like the Thai Government is just trying to filter out the Scam Artists and Con Artists and giving the Benefits to those who actually show a sincere effort to Love Thailand, instead of creating a haven for unscrupulous individuals who just want to come rape and pillage the Thai people for their own personal gains.

My Suggestion is to appeal to the Thai Visa Forum administrators to let you speak more Thai.

Finally you guys are getting

what you got coming to you.

I'm so glad.

Sua*

[robertson468]

About time

Thai Immigration doing tests on Thai Language - you are having a laugh - aren't you ? I went to have my new retirement visa done on Koh Samui and they said, "where letter to prove you have 800K baht in Bank". I pointed out that I did not need that, but instead was able to produce a letter from the Embassy confirming a certain level of monthly income. They tried to say that this was not right, but instead I had to have money in the Bank. I then insisted they phone Immigration HQ in Bangkok and after much to-ing and fro-ing, they finally conceded I was right. So maybe we should start having tests for Thai Immigration on Immigration Law and just forget about the language tests?

[canuckamuck]

I find that the students at Walen, and probably everywhere else that fail to make progress are those who refuse to take it serious.

My experience has been that the regular attenders learn quite quickly. There are certain students that suck azz at learning.

[Jonathanpattaya]

And good riddance to you who would be the epitome of the sort they want to weed out.

Oh, he has been deleted.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Jonathanpattaya

[HappyInCM]

I am on an ED visa and am learning Thai but not at the classes as I don't find them well suited for me - why should I have to go to classes as long as I am learning? I can read Thai (minus the tones although I am working on that now) and speak passably. I go to the classes every 3 months to get photographed and pick up my renewal paperwork.

As for the testing in Jomtien, this is my experience:

3 month renewal - no questions

6 month renewal - (in english) how do you say 8am in Thai? how do you say 9pm. I responded with the 24 hour clock and she was fine with it.

9 month renewal - first she said something in Thai about the airport a tuk tuk and 9am, which I didn't fully understand which, in turn, irritated her. She then asked me how to spell Suvarnabhumi in Thai, which she didn't let me finish as I was having some trouble with the vowels so had to repeat it to myself a few times. She then asked me to sing a Thai song and suggested the Thai national anthem. (I wasn't aware they had a national anthem ) I countered with the alphabet song and she said OK but still had a sour face.

Fair enough that they should weed out people who aren't learning at all, but she should be professional about it - I think most of her questions at 9 months to me were pretty unreasonable and unproductive to determining if I had been learning Thai for 9 months. BUT, I can understand their frustration.

Edited December 17, 2009 by eljefe2

[MacWalen]

This is just BS. Your school sucks. Your book sucks. Your method sucks. 1,000 of your 1,200 students never show up for classes, myself now included. Your teachers are your one redeeming asset but few of them can control their classes for shit and most times the classes end up getting sidetracked by lame stories and jokes and discussions about Thailand - the teachers willingly participating, everybody just waiting for those 50 minutes to be over...

Can you tell me which teacher or teachers? Also which school are you studying at? Maybe you have a bad day that's why you are nasty. Anyway, I give guarantee on my lessons, if you feel they were not worth your money I will not charge for them and you can take extra classes in their place.

Edited December 18, 2009 by macwalen
Reduced quoted text. No need to quote the entire, lengthy post with multiple nested quotes - Maestro

[MacWalen]

32 lessons is not so enough to have a conversation in Thai, also the wanting to speak Thai factor.

Edited December 18, 2009 by macwalen

[hhgz]

"Why would anyone pay for an education and then not turn up for the course?"

I would guess that, although more expensive than traveling to and from the border, it's a lot cheaper just to hand over a bunch of money.

I have a friend who asked about the coursework at one of the schools mentioned. He was told that he could start on any day, and attend whenever he wanted. He paid his money, and was immediately told that classes weren't available for that specific day. Regardless, even without attending a single class for several months, the school has reported that his attendance and progress are satisfactory...and his visa is extended.

[thaiphoon]

Two posts that continue to discuss Thai language have been deleted. This topic is about Educational Visas, as reminded in Scott's post below:

//Edit: Now increased to 3. Warnings will be issued for further such posts. Please stay on topic.

One post has been deleted. Let's take care to respect other posters.

This thread is about Educational Visas, it is not about the Thai language. Educational visas include other educational facilities besides language schools.

Stay on Topic. There is a language forum for those wishing to discuss the language.

[jb5music]

Thailand was he first place I came to while traveling and I was able to get by okay with only English. I wanted to speak the language so I could understand people during transactions or socializing. My family said I should definitely learn Thai also but I just could not begin to memorize any of the vocabulary. I have a problem forcing my self to remember things I'm not interested in. I only speak one language and my memory is slipping to where I get stuck in the middle of sentences for a word speaking the only language I speak. I can't begin to remember a single shape that is supposed to be a word if it is not western alphabetic to boot.

In other countries where there are a lot of immigrants from 2 or more foreign countries they use English as a common language so they can barter. Their native language is not something you are ever tested on and then branded for exclusionment for not speaking it. It sure helps though but you can get by without it and it's not going to go away because the immigrant population will only ever increase. Thailand is creating more and more hurtles for westerner foreigners in the immigration category so as to be able to segregate the original population from the new comers. Mostly to charge money for merely being in the country and mostly to charge money to transport these people back and forth in and out of the country on constant visa runs as a means to drum up money. Eventually I feel Thailand will make it very difficult for foreigners to even enter. If you are still living there when they finally gridlock your existence there your probably going to lose everything. ie: maybe a house and a car and a wife or kids. Your sure going to love your brain crash course jammed with thai that you barely still can even speak usefully with - especially on that day when you will go out and not come back in. You'll never see another Thai word or hear the language. So I bailed now before this happens and even not speaking any Thai or wasting one minute actively trying to learn it it was weird to be in the absence of all that code communicating and writing that I couldn't understand. It was a remarkable relief actually and I've found that where I am the English is spoken with a determination to make it understandable because the people use it to barter with me and themselves. The entire population. It's not something they do because a marginal percentage of their business comes from English speaking foreigners so they have to. They speak English because they like to speak English and it is a life saving easy to learn common communication tool for non westerner foreigners to understand each other as they interact. Thailand's obviously supplying ever new hurtles to you just to remain in there. There's no need for that. The constant jumping through hoops and being herded around. It's not going to get any better. There's other similar countries that don't do this to that same degree or that way. You can just sit and live your life and buy your daily needs without being run around to the border like clock work cattle and charged for transporting hither to and fro. constantly, uselessly.

[whatchamacallit]

32 lessons is not so many to have a conversation in Thai, also the wanting to speak Thai factor.

thus explain why you need 10 years to study Thai..

[harrry]

...Thailand's obviously supplying ever new hurtles to you just to remain in there. There's no need for that...

There is no requirement for anyone (other than Permanent Residents) to speak thai. But if you have an ed visa based on attending a school and learning thai for a period attendance should be required. It is fairly obvious if someone has not complied and it is probably those who are questioned.

[MHM]

To Mac walen : jai yen yen na? People might think you were worried about income streams.

[Jirapa]

A friend of mine has an ED-visa for studying martial arts. I wonder if immigration will ask him to demonstrate his abilities as well.

Maybe his ability to dodge bullets. They have guns!

[cup-O-coffee]

At ease, ladies and gentlemen, and I say that respectfully, of course.

I can assure any of you that the interrogations are a ruse and cannot be any kind of criteria for denying an ED visa holder their extension.

A simple, polite call by the language school GM to the discriminating officer will quickly reveal that the officer is simply "trying to get to know the person" and is "not really interviewing" the person.

For numerous reasons, and mentioning only a few of these, Immigration is NOT the Department of Education, which in fact sets the standard of testing.

Furthermore, the officer must be a certified and qualified test provider, by the Department of Education, and therefore cannot legally conduct an "on the spot" D.ED standardized proficiency test. Anyone who knows about getting certifications in order to conduct testing also knows that there would need to be a representative from the D.ED who regularly visits the imigration departments and sets aside the required space in order to conduct these proficiency tests - and, last time I checked, the Thai Language Proficiency Test in Bangkok once a year is not yet compulsory, nor am I aware of any off-site testing area; specifically at the desk behind table number 5!

Ask the officer to show you the D.ED test questions.

Tell them that you want to speak to the on-site D.ED representative to be sure that your test will be fair and supervised under D.ED guidelines.

Ask them to show you the Thai law that states they have the right to refuse you an ED visa, and by what criteria.

Ask to see the Officers teaching certification and teaching license from the D.ED.

Ask the Officer how they can discriminate against your inalienable human right to be allowed to learn at a rate of speed that is within your mental capacity to access the information and retain it satisfactorily; for any given time period!

Additionally, unless the officer first conducts an I.Q. test before determining the skill level that you should be at, BASED ON THE TIME YOU HAVE HAD THE VISA, then they CANNOT deny you an ED visa extension without treading on international human rights that protect you from discrimination, racism, etc.

The length of time that you have had an ED visa in your passport has nothing to do with a persons understanding of a curriculum, nor should it be equated with being more skilled in that curriculum. I teach Thais who have been in English classrooms for many, many years, and their levels are atrocious.

At the end of the day, a simple and very polite, yet firm call from an attentive and caring language school GM will suffice. Life will go on as it should...

The content of this OP is understandable, but simply a bluff. Call it, and you will see. Have your GM from school alerted when you go and ring them up as you sit there. Watch the officer's face and attitude change after they put the phone to their ear. When you show them that you do not have to put up with this crap, they will back down.

Actually doing all the "horrible" things that these officers claim would be pulling on the thread that unravels the proverbial sweater.

[Jonathanpattaya]

About time

Thai Immigration doing tests on Thai Language - you are having a laugh - aren't you ? I went to have my new retirement visa done on Koh Samui and they said, "where letter to prove you have 800K baht in Bank". I pointed out that I did not need that, but instead was able to produce a letter from the Embassy confirming a certain level of monthly income. They tried to say that this was not right, but instead I had to have money in the Bank. I then insisted they phone Immigration HQ in Bangkok and after much to-ing and fro-ing, they finally conceded I was right. So maybe we should start having tests for Thai Immigration on Immigration Law and just forget about the language tests?

You are certainly not the brightest light on the Christmas tree, are you, as you have completely missed the point?

This topic is referring to ED visas.

[Dap]

How about someone whom is already almost fluent in Thai .... or would his Thai be to good after only 6 months

W

THAT is a good call. What if your Thai language skills are more than passable? Will that end your ED visa? Interesting. Just curious. dap

[cup-O-coffee]

No, it will not. You have a right to learn here in Thailand as a wonderful gift from Thailand. The ED visa is the same in a language school as it is in a Uni. Just because you excel, does not exclude you from the right to continue your education. By the same token, just because you are slow, does not give an immigration officer the right to discriminate against you by singling you out on a whim and clearly badger, harrass and threaten you, which is outside their jurisdiction.

This OP content does not take into consideration any method that will clearly indicate any single individual's ability to access knowledge in a fashion that is normal for their IQ, nor does it clearly demonstrate any legal method currently being conducted by Thai immigration authorities, that makes them think they have the right to invoke it upon said individual without treading on human rights.

[Mario2008]

That was more than enough. This discussion is about ed-visa's and immigration, not about specific Thai language schools. Off topic comments will be deleted without further notice and if necesarry warnings will be given.

[Parvis]

"Your Consideration" should be - that - it becomes EASIER to learn a language AFTER your 2nd language - not more difficult.

I actually experience a "strange phenomenon" in the process of learning Thai - namely I sometimes "fall back" to Spanish in Thai conversation (and Spanish is not my "native language" - but I speak it fluently). Recently a waitress returned change to me and I instinctively said "esta bien".

This has happened to me previously in different circumstances. I find it interesting - since there appears to be a "brain - software - connection" between languages as one learns new languages.

[Luxius]

*A lot of paranoid babble*

You are way too paranoid, dude. Maybe that's why you can't find the concentration effort to learn another language, or maybe it is as you stated in the beginning: you are not interested.

Well, ED visas should only be for those, who are actually interested in studying (what ever it might be).

[wildframe]

Attended today to have my 90 day extension. Had to wait until bai moong while the entire Customs Division had lunch at the same time--tad odd.

No exam or test although that may have something to do with me complaining about boorigan mai dai after waiting some 2 hours while they favoured the "unofficial business" end of visa processing via agents and alike. Can't blame them as the pay the government employees get sucks and when a cheapskate lame'o like me chooses to do it by myself instead of using an "agent" ...well there's no extras in it for them. So your application gets set quietly aside on the table for an hour--in plain view.

I remembered holding my head in my hands and moaning "mai pen ...mai pen ...mai pen" until an Immigration officer asked me "Mai pen arai?" I felt like telling him "wannii, mai pen dii borigan!" but instead I wimped-out and just said Mai pen rai and waited marvelling at the spec new building with it's non-functioning LED Service Number System ...ahhh some things never change

[lazygourmet]

ps: americans and brits have it so much more easy to learn a new language

People with only one language are the slowest to learn a 2nd or 3rd language as their brains are not geared for languages.

Europeans who hear a lot of different languages and possibly speak 2 or 3 will pick up another language more quickly. I'll bet on it.

I'd put Brits and Americans on the bottom as the slowest learners of additional languages.

Completely agreed...

First of all, three national languages, in my case -I am from Belgium- Daddy being a diplomat, I was supposed to follow his steps and learn all of them... then Mum is from Indonesia, which makes four... English is only coming at place seven, well after Spanish and Italian

I am not proud about that, because it's normal... and now, regardless my Thai basic knowledge, I am interested to learn Mon dialect with our new maid.

[Scott]

Numerous posts have been deleted. Again, this thread is NOT about language schools or who can learn a language and who can't. It is about Educational Visas. Please stay on topic.

[TonyBkk]

I've been in Thailand since March 06 on a type ED visa, first it was for AAA thai language school (Best in bangkok), as soon as I passed the bor 6 Thai exam that december I went to study an international BBA program at AU, and have been getting yearly type ED visas from them for the past 3yrs, they do my visa letter once a year and together with my transcript and receipt of fees, bring me in a minibus with other students, an usually within 2hrs of waiting we are all issued with new 1yr visas, never any interviews. I dont even need to go to immigration for report 90days, AU has a service where we just leave them our passports and collect them 2 weeks later with a new stamp. Everything is legit, and I don't really care if i get stopped without a passport as I have 5yr driving licences for both car and motorcycle along with a legit uni card.

Edited December 17, 2009 by TonyBkk