Stir Over Girly Calendar

[getgoin]

http://absolutelybangkok.com/beautys-moral-decay/

[eek]

Saw it on the news. One girl sounded pretty irate talking to the press, then a bit of footage of them dancing about doing that vacant model expression thing thats practiced the world over.

Edit: Ok, on a more serious note..and as lambasted as i may get from this..I can actually see the point about image and role models and all that stuff really.

"Who doesn’t like women’s movements – as long as they’re rhythmic."

http://absolutelybangkok.com/beautys-moral.../#ixzz0aFA1Q5DI pretty much sums up the general male POV on this one, so there is no way in hel_l anyone here is likely gonna see any other side other than "we wan our nakked girlies" and "get yir tits out for the lads". My mere suggestion of seeing it from a different point of view likely labels me as a puritanical feminazi who is obviously jealous and fat and all that other stuff, as there is no middle ground with folks. The girls are beautiful, but (imo) ive seen naked calenders that are tasteful as well as sexy, this one just gives out the trashy lads mad feel. Its my understanding these girls are representative of the higher end of Thailands models (?), so i guess its considered not appropriate in that sense? Edited December 20, 2009 by eek

[garyh]

"but with no constructive or educational information of value to society" Says who?

[britmaveric]

Nice looking birds, if they want to model for a calendar why not?

[EvilDrSomkid]

Heavily photoshopped, and most of the "models" are luk kreung. I think one of them is a LB.

Not particularly appealing to me.

I've seen better.

[bonobo]

Edit: Ok, on a more serious note..and as lambasted as i may get from this..I can actually see the point about image and role models and all that stuff really.

"Who doesn’t like women’s movements – as long as they’re rhythmic."

http://absolutelybangkok.com/beautys-moral.../#ixzz0aFA1Q5DI pretty much sums up the general male POV on this one, so there is no way in hel_l anyone here is likely gonna see any other side other than "we wan our nakked girlies" and "get yir tits out for the lads". My mere suggestion of seeing it from a different point of view likely labels me as a puritanical feminazi who is obviously jealous and fat and all that other stuff, as there is no middle ground with folks. The girls are beautiful, but (imo) ive seen naked calenders that are tasteful as well as sexy, this one just gives out the trashy lads mad feel. Its my understanding these girls are representative of the higher end of Thailands models (?), so i guess its considered not appropriate in that sense?

I tend to agree with eek on most of her posts, but I guess here my misogynist side pops up, except that I don't think it is misogyny. I feel that any woman who wants to pose nud_e or semi-nud_e has the absolute right to do so.  It is her body to do with what she pleases, and that is no different from any other female or male model.  If a beer company wants to have a calendar like this, that is up to them. And if the population really thinks this is wrong, well, then the sales will decrease. 

I don't think it is right to 1.  Assume that posing nud_e is being a "bad" role model, and 2. Projecting onto anyone the requirement that they must be a role model.  I see this with sports stars, too.  While I might personally admire a good role model, who says that someone who can shoot a basketball or defend a goal has to live his or her life as a role model?  Why can't they just live as they wish?

Now, in keeping with full disclosure, I do have an old Mekong Whiskey calendar stashed away somewhere, so I am defending something I actually like.  But I still believe firmly in the points I have made.

[midasthailand]

I am surprised this thread is allowed given the links on it to a rather uncomplimentary thread from another forum about Thai Visa ?

As to the beer calander.....nothing special to see there.

Edited December 21, 2009 by midasthailand

[carmine]

Where can i get one! i think they look great !

[neverdie]

Heavily photoshopped, and most of the "models" are luk kreung. I think one of them is a LB.

Not particularly appealing to me.

I've seen better.

So What?

[IanForbes]

Why bother looking at girly pictures when there are so many beauties walking around in the flesh? And, for the price of a drink or two you can spend an evening playing pool and flirting with one.

[IanForbes]

I tend to agree with eek on most of her posts, but I guess here my misogynist side pops up, except that I don't think it is misogyny. I feel that any woman who wants to pose nud_e or semi-nud_e has the absolute right to do so. It is her body to do with what she pleases, and that is no different from any other female or male model. If a beer company wants to have a calendar like this, that is up to them. And if the population really thinks this is wrong, well, then the sales will decrease.

I don't think it is right to 1. Assume that posing nud_e is being a "bad" role model, and 2. Projecting onto anyone the requirement that they must be a role model. I see this with sports stars, too. While I might personally admire a good role model, who says that someone who can shoot a basketball or defend a goal has to live his or her life as a role model? Why can't they just live as they wish?

Now, in keeping with full disclosure, I do have an old Mekong Whiskey calendar stashed away somewhere, so I am defending something I actually like. But I still believe firmly in the points I have made.

And I agree with you on 99% of these topics. I pass no judgement on what others tend to do with their lives. I may see the pitfalls when anyone does something I think has some risk involved, but I won't impose my morals on others.

[moe666]

Sorry boyzes the inside scoop is that there all Ladyboys.

[neverdie]

Sorry boyzes the inside scoop is that there all Ladyboys.

So what?

[gotlost]

I find it highly comical that the high road of morality is telling us we can not buy a girlie calender published by a beer company. Maybe they be LB's, but they are only striking so called sexy posses. This is what infuriates the moralist. Well I do not hear the moralist screaming about a Thia magi zen called ZUPZIP (Thai only) published weekly on all news stands. Based on Thai movies stars gossip. This rag has what us order people call SOFT PORN on all pages. Where are the moralist when we need them?? I never did need them or wanted them.

[sceadugenga]

Sorry boyzes the inside scoop is that there all Ladyboys.

So what?

I don't exactly envy them all that experience required to tell the difference.

[MyphuketLife]

I don't get it, bangkok has areas that are dedicated to buying the models... thats ok, at the same time pictures/video is not??

[Hssl]

Where can i get a copy?

[Birdman]

Sorry boyzes the inside scoop is that there all Lady boys.

Nowadays almost all sexy models everywhere are lady boys

So what?

I prefer ladies

So what?

[NancyL]

Here's the input of a mature western woman who remembers when this sort of calendar was common. My problem isn't with the calendar, per se, and I agree with everyone who says that it's OK if women/whatever want to display themselves this way. I don't have a big problem with the company producing this calendar, either. My problem lies in how "customers" choose to use their calendars. It's one thing for a teenager to put one on the back of his bedroom door. It's quite another for a business executive to put one on his office wall.

In the 1970s and 1980s I worked as an engineer in a job where I visited many customer offices. I was very glad when big American corporations finally "outlawed" this type of office decoration. Yes, the Ridgid Tool calendar was very well done. Hubby even scored them from the Ridgid Tool salesman who visited his office, but he didn't display his calendar in the office.

[eek]

I tend to agree with eek on most of her posts, but I guess here my misogynist side pops up, except that I don't think it is misogyny. I feel that any woman who wants to pose nud_e or semi-nud_e has the absolute right to do so.  It is her body to do with what she pleases, and that is no different from any other female or male model.  If a beer company wants to have a calendar like this, that is up to them. And if the population really thinks this is wrong, well, then the sales will decrease. 

I don't think it is right to 1.  Assume that posing nud_e is being a "bad" role model, and 2. Projecting onto anyone the requirement that they must be a role model.  I see this with sports stars, too.  While I might personally admire a good role model, who says that someone who can shoot a basketball or defend a goal has to live his or her life as a role model?  Why can't they just live as they wish?

Now, in keeping with full disclosure, I do have an old Mekong Whiskey calendar stashed away somewhere, so I am defending something I actually like.  But I still believe firmly in the points I have made.

Hi bonobo, I always respect your posts and read what you have to say, because you give your opinion in a measured way. Even if your view doesnt match mine, you give me opportunity to have a rethink. I certainly do see your point.

But im thinking that people are often role models, even if they dont intend or want to be. IE (sorry this "ie" seems a bit broad, but anyway..): In our everyday lives, we are role models to our kids (for those who have them). When we travel, we are representative of our countries, etc. Im not saying that its right, and sure its ok to think "the hel_l with it!". But, i do understand the point when something like that calender is deemed inappropriate. If you are in the limelight, you are in the public eye, and public judgment does kind of go hand in hand with that. Yes, a person should do what they want with their own body, but when you put yourself "out there", its open to comment. I dont think posing nud_e is a "bad" role model, heck i was a life drawing tutor for many years, the naked form is beautiful! I would say the objection they had wasnt so much about the nud_e form, but the way the nud_e form was presented. Sex sells and its easy to be provocative. I dont personally object to the calender, but i do understand why Thailand would consider it inappropriate to have its (top class?) models presented in this way.

[Donnyboy]

Heavily photoshopped, and most of the "models" are luk kreung. I think one of them is a LB.

Not particularly appealing to me.

I've seen better.

cmon link us the pics

[docholiday123]

Number, Price and Location?

[absolutelyBangkok]

Well sorry about the women's movements joke - got it from a woman actually.

UnThai girls or not? The whole issue is about this:

"It’s like a lot of things in Thailand; you can get away with them as long as you aren’t too “in your face” about it."

A quote from the (workplace-friendly) blog AsianSweetheart.

Couldn't agree more.

[Chunkton]

Saw it on the news. One girl sounded pretty irate talking to the press, then a bit of footage of them dancing about doing that vacant model expression thing thats practiced the world over.

Edit: Ok, on a more serious note..and as lambasted as i may get from this..I can actually see the point about image and role models and all that stuff really.

"Who doesn’t like women’s movements – as long as they’re rhythmic."

http://absolutelybangkok.com/beautys-moral.../#ixzz0aFA1Q5DI pretty much sums up the general male POV on this one, so there is no way in hel_l anyone here is likely gonna see any other side other than "we wan our nakked girlies" and "get yir tits out for the lads". My mere suggestion of seeing it from a different point of view likely labels me as a puritanical feminazi who is obviously jealous and fat and all that other stuff, as there is no middle ground with folks. The girls are beautiful, but (imo) ive seen naked calenders that are tasteful as well as sexy, this one just gives out the trashy lads mad feel. Its my understanding these girls are representative of the higher end of Thailands models (?), so i guess its considered not appropriate in that sense?

It is just political correctness Eek, and I dislike all it's manifestations as I don't see why we should have to submit our lives to the guidelines set out by others because they claim to higher ideals. Those are merly their viewpoints, they are welcome to inflict it on their offspring but spare me. It is a control issue.

And if you want to go out and get the naked fireman's calendar, go ahead. What business is it of mine what you choose to kook at? I don't find it demeaning to men despite not having a body like that.

[StreetCowboy]

As I understand it, the original controversy over the calendar was that it was illegal under legislation to control the promotion of alcoholic drinks. I understand that the legislation bans advertising or promotion intended to increase the consumption of alcoholic beverages, and the court presumably felt that the calendar might do that - in which case, money well spent by the advertisers.

In terms of negative role models, are the naked girls a negative role model because they promote alcohol, or should people in beer adverts be positive role models and dress and behave in an exemplary way? As part of the target audience, I no longer aspire to look like those girls...

Remember the Tartan Pimpernel!

SC

[Gaccha]

As I understand it, the original controversy over the calendar was that it was illegal under legislation to control the promotion of alcoholic drinks. I understand that the legislation bans advertising or promotion intended to increase the consumption of alcoholic beverages, and the court presumably felt that the calendar might do that - in which case, money well spent by the advertisers.

Exactly. This legislation is identical to British legislation that forbids any association of 'success' with women and drink, youth and drink etc. that are found in the guidelines to the Advertising Standards Agency.

It is interesting that this is not though the topic for discussion, instead the topic has become-- isn't it awful how women's bodies are objectified. Besides this being a pointless complaint as it merely comments on a social totality, I would point out that the exact opposite complaint has recently reached the headlines in the British press. Young men have now such astonishing access to photos of girls in various poses and of exceptional quality they have lost interest in the women around them.

The woman today must then position herself as agreeing with two contradictory positions: they must object to objectification and must complain of not being objectified any longer.

At least Thailand has kept a relaxed approach to this area of advertising.

Edited December 22, 2009 by Gaccha

[eek]

Well..purely for equalities sake (not for personal reasons..of course), i think its about time we had MUCH more gratuitous objectification of men.

[sbk]

I think eek needs to start a hot men thread in ladies

[bonobo]

Hi bonobo, I always respect your posts and read what you have to say, because you give your opinion in a measured way. Even if your view doesnt match mine, you give me opportunity to have a rethink. I certainly do see your point.

But im thinking that people are often role models, even if they dont intend or want to be. IE (sorry this "ie" seems a bit broad, but anyway..): In our everyday lives, we are role models to our kids (for those who have them). When we travel, we are representative of our countries, etc. Im not saying that its right, and sure its ok to think "the hel_l with it!". But, i do understand the point when something like that calender is deemed inappropriate. If you are in the limelight, you are in the public eye, and public judgment does kind of go hand in hand with that. Yes, a person should do what they want with their own body, but when you put yourself "out there", its open to comment. I dont think posing nud_e is a "bad" role model, heck i was a life drawing tutor for many years, the naked form is beautiful! I would say the objection they had wasnt so much about the nud_e form, but the way the nud_e form was presented. Sex sells and its easy to be provocative. I dont personally object to the calender, but i do understand why Thailand would consider it inappropriate to have its (top class?) models presented in this way.

And I respect your opinions, too (of course, I generally agree with them, so that makes it easier!)

And I do understand that people are often role models whether they want to or not.  And I respect people who rise to the role.  BUt I cannot force my own views of what a role model should be to the people actually in the limelight, in the position.  If someone chooses not to be a good role model, chooses not to change their life or who they are, I have to accept that as their choice.  

Tiger Woods is a good example.  Why is it worse for him as a person to have an affair than the 86% or so of other westerners who have had them?  Why is every one in a tizzy about that? Taking the hypocrisy out of it of his clean cut persona, his act is at the base no different than that of anyone else.

His actions will have consequences, of course.  he has already lost his contract with Accenture, so there is a price to pay for his actions.  BUt many people are seemingly incensed with his "betrayal."  As for me, the only betrayal here is to his family, not to the public.

I know a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient who has been at odds with the military ever since he he was awarded it. They wanted him to be a "hero."  He wanted to fade into the background.  He acted under instinct and overcame tremendous odds in Vietnam, but he was not comfortable in the limelight.  He is now a bitter alcoholic because he could not meet the  demands of the military to be a good public figure.

Yes, when you are "out there," as you put it, you are open to scrutiny and judgment. It comes with the territory. BUt I think it is rather selfish of us, as the public, to demand that certain people meet our parameters of what a role model should be.

[bonobo]

Well..purely for equalities sake (not for personal reasons..of course), i think its about time we had MUCH more gratuitous objectification of men.

Well, I keep volunteering to be the target of gratuitous objectification, but no one seems to want to take me up on that!  They rather seem to run away screaming (or laughing!)