Thailand's Abhisit Government Rules Out Return To Ante-coup Playing Field For Talks With Ex-pm Thaksin

[LaoPo]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Always so quick with the "obsession" accusations LaoPo. Nothing obsessive about it. People just expressing an opinion on a negative force. Fine, so you think there are other issues as troubling/more troubling than our square-faced friend, so start some threads on those matters and express yourself. Stop telling people how they should feel. They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Very well said.

One more John.

LaoPo

[Publicus]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

Always so quick with the "obsession" accusations LaoPo. Nothing obsessive about it. People just expressing an opinion on a negative force. Fine, so you think there are other issues as troubling/more troubling than our square-faced friend, so start some threads on those matters and express yourself. Stop telling people how they should feel. They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Very well said.

One more John.

LaoPo

But a new one who may have a future, ya never know.

[LaoPo]

But a new one who may have a future, ya never know.

We'll see, but not if he's the one I think he is....

Merry Christmas!

LaoPo

[rixalex]

I know an ass whuppin' when I see one - and LP just received one. Wax on, wax off baby. There is nothing bitter about Anim's views. They are just more well thought out, constructed, and argued than yours. The only bitterness I see, is in your post. (i.e. "I'm taking my ball, and going home")

I spotted you already since day one you became a(gain) new member.

Which number of your new member names is this BangkokJazz/John ?...30th, 40th ? Do you have a list, nailed next to your PC with all the new names and passwords?

Let's see how long it lasts this time but you're getting more cautious...of course; It's hard to get banned all the time isn't it?

LaoPo

Still seeing "Johns" in every shadow then Mr LaoPo.

That man must have really got under your skin.

Anyway, you've been here long enough to know there is a "report" button. Why not use it? Accusing members publicly i believe is considered to be flaming.

[baht&sold]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Ditto.

[Ricardo]

We're given to understand that the Thai judiciary acts independently. So, was it "the previous (PPP-led coalition) government, under PM-Somchai (Thaksin's brother-in-law), which permitted Thaksin to leave the country while his court-cases were underway" - or the Supreme Court?

"Earlier, there had been speculation as to whether the couple would return to report themselves to the Supreme Court's Criminal Division for Political Office Holders, which has granted them permission to leave the country on a case-by-case basis."

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/rea...newsid=30080169

"The Thai Supreme Court found him guilty of abusing his position as Prime Minister, the first of a series of verdicts due against the former leader, who was deposed in a bloodless coup in 2006.......... He was allowed by the court to attend the opening of the Olympic Games in Beijing in August."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4984120.ece

Fair comment, Steve.

If the courts are independent, and the court gave him permission to go, then it cannot be the current government's fault that he got away. Although you still have to pass through Immigration, controlled by the government, on the way out.

Of course if the courts are less-than-impartial, as Thaksin and many of his supporters regularly like to claim, then which government/PM were in-power, when he was given leave to go ? Right PPP/PM-Somchai, not the Dems/PM-Abhisit !

So either way it is spurious, to try to claim that it's the same government now trying to get him back, who let him go. Although it does make a nice rod, to beat PM-Abhisit's back, which is why the accusation seems to resurface so regularly on TV.

[LaoPo]

That man must have really got under your skin.

Administrations' skin; not mine

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Ditto.

Not ditto.

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice but a few here on the forum are not unbiased and have "throned" themselves Thai Judges.

Not me.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[baht&sold]

And I really pity that man since such an obsession is a sickness....an addiction which kills a human being slowly but surely since it's pure hate and hate is a very bad thing.

They feel pissed off with Thaksin and think he is one of the biggest problems facing the nation then up to them. Why should that bother you so much, that you continually have to come on here and tell people to back off him - doing your merry dance of defending him whilst at the same time "not supporting" him?

Ditto.

Not ditto.

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice but a few here on the forum are not unbiased and have "throned" themselves Thai Judges.

Not me.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

re quote from "LaoPo" : "I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased... "

Yet even Stevie Wonder could see the obvious...

And Shaggy as in "wasn't me"

Merry Ho-Ho to you and yours as well.

PS: Not being one of your meek sheep, please choose your blinkered herd more carefully.

and er, sorry, I've no special self-aggrandising "own name' high-lights after every post...ala "LaoPo"

Rather squarely reminds one of a megalomaniac (or a willing blinkered devotee with an agenda;)

Edited December 22, 2009 by baht&sold

[LaoPo]

re quote from "LaoPo" :

1. "I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased... "

2. PS: Not being one of your meek sheep, please choose your blinkered herd more carefully.

3. and er, sorry, I've no special self-aggrandising "own name' high-lights after every post...ala "LaoPo"

Rather squarely reminds one of a megalomaniac (or a willing blinkered devotee with an agenda;)

1. That's correct.

2. I'm not seeking any meek sheep, there's no need since I have my own opinion and everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion, like you have and express accordingly.

That doesn't mean we have to agree with one another, do we ?

3. Signing messages, letters, notes, drafts, contracts and emails with my own name (in this case member-name) is and was a normal behavior, taught to me since I was a teenager and very normal in my family. I still do that but you don't have to look at it.

I consider it as a sad and degrading behavior that most people in society as well as on forums no longer use a -written- signature (not automated).

Maybe I'm old fashioned but at least a signature was considered VERY normal as well as correct after one wrote a note, letter, contract or any other document in the times we didn't have a virtual world yet.

It's my own way of being polite. That has nothing to do with -sometimes- my sharpened pen, having a different opinion than others....

I don't know about you and others, but the Christmas Cards we receive are ALL signed with the name(s) of the loved ones who sent them. Isn't that normal ?

So, why not sign on a forum ? I did so on more than 11,000 messages and if you don't like it, it's your problem, not mine.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[baht&sold]

re quote from "LaoPo" :

1. "I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased... "

2. PS: Not being one of your meek sheep, please choose your blinkered herd more carefully.

3. and er, sorry, I've no special self-aggrandising "own name' high-lights after every post...ala "LaoPo"

Rather squarely reminds one of a megalomaniac (or a willing blinkered devotee with an agenda;)

1. That's correct.

2. I'm not seeking any meek sheep, there's no need since I have my own opinion and everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion, like you have and express accordingly.

That doesn't mean we have to agree with one another, do we ?

3. Signing messages, letters, notes, drafts, contracts and emails with my own name (in this case member-name) is and was a normal behavior, taught to me since I was a teenager and very normal in my family. I still do that but you don't have to look at it.

I consider it as a sad and degrading behavior that most people in society as well as on forums no longer use a -written- signature (not automated).

Maybe I'm old fashioned but at least a signature was considered VERY normal as well as correct after one wrote a note, letter, contract or any other document in the times we didn't have a virtual world yet.

It's my own way of being polite. That has nothing to do with -sometimes- my sharpened pen, having a different opinion than others....

I don't know about you and others, but the Christmas Cards we receive are ALL signed with the name(s) of the loved ones who sent them. Isn't that normal ?

So, why not sign on a forum ? I did so on more than 11,000 messages and if you don't like it, it's your problem, not mine.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

Thanks for predictably re-enforcing the point...

Could aptly sum up polarised sentiment with the following:

His Majesty calls on all Thais to put the country above "self" interest..

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2009/12/06...al_30118039.php

Followed by the square in-your-face brigade of "self" interest ba-ba bleat:

"Thaksin will stop protests if govt spares him from jail" Can't post but Google

Enuff said.

Sincerely wishing you and your flock prosperity, happiness and truth,.. Especially for Thailand...

(for there is hope, despite all detractors- with obvious agendas)

This is wishing a truly happy season for ALL (not for just a few).

Edited December 22, 2009 by baht&sold

[LaoPo]

Enuff said.

I agree.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[mca]

In some ways it is a shame that we dont have a situation devoid of coups, violence and hatred in which Thaksin and Abhisit were heading up big parties in electoral battles on a newer reformed field. The chance of that is now gone though and withit consensus and any chance for a reformed poltitical system. All we are going to get now is a long power struggle and whoever is in power trying to wreck their opponents and that isnt going to be good for democracy or Thailand whoever wins in the end if indeed anyone.

My thoughts to a "T"

In the current world of Thai politics any government no matter the side spend a fair proportion of their time fighting off the opposition rather than getting on with sorting out the myriad of woes experienced by the population. This will happen no matter who's in power.

Sadly my humble opinion is it's never going to change. We can start threads till the cows come home but in the LOS I feel it's always been too many vested interests to the nth degree in all aspects of society. Coupled with a Puu Yai/Puu Noi system of "I've got the power so I do what the frig I like and remember who I am" and it's a recipe for SNAFU.

[Bagwan]

Thaksin: Give me back my money.

Abhisit : It isn't your money. That is the whole point.

Thaksin: Give me back my money or I'll protest.

Abhisit : You stole the money. Protest all you like. Up to you.

Thaksin: It is my money! I stole it fair and square!

:D

[BangkokJazz]

Listening to Laopo declare he is "unbiased" is my Christmas present In the meantime, the topic of this thread was returning to the 1997 Constitution - which appears to be impossible. They process of ammending the present constitution, which was originally proposed by the Puea Thai Party, now appears to be something they don't want, because their only goal is to be disagreeable. Abhisit seems pretty good at keeping the vultures at bay, I'd let him continue to do so. Eventually, all the vultures will die off. (years, decades, etc?)

[LaoPo]

Listening to Laopo declare he is "unbiased" is my Christmas present

You're welcome and enjoy it as much as possible, the time you've left.....to Christmas

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[rixalex]

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice

You? Unbiased? LOL

I don't think anyone who comes on here expressing an opinion can truly call themselves that. We all have prejudicies of one sort or another, just some people refuse to see it in themselves.

As for leaving decisions to Thai justice, Thai justice has already spoken on Thaksin, yet the defence council refuses to sit on this forum.

Perhaps as a New Year resolution you might consider focusing your attention in other areas Mr LaoPo? Rather than getting all hot and bothered by all the anti-Thaksin sentiment on this forum - rather than spending all your time telling people that Thaksin isn't the only bad guy out there - rather than accusing people of being banned members returning and of being obssessed.... rather than all of that telling people how to think, how to feel, why don't you let them think/feel for themselves and instead focus your efforts on bringing to our attention the issues you feel are worthy of discussion?

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money - and the longer you go on telling them not to feel that way, the longer they will come on here expressing just that opinion.

[beammeup]

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice

You? Unbiased? LOL

I don't think anyone who comes on here expressing an opinion can truly call themselves that. We all have prejudicies of one sort or another, just some people refuse to see it in themselves.

As for leaving decisions to Thai justice, Thai justice has already spoken on Thaksin, yet the defence council refuses to sit on this forum.

Perhaps as a New Year resolution you might consider focusing your attention in other areas Mr LaoPo? Rather than getting all hot and bothered by all the anti-Thaksin sentiment on this forum - rather than spending all your time telling people that Thaksin isn't the only bad guy out there - rather than accusing people of being banned members returning and of being obssessed.... rather than all of that telling people how to think, how to feel, why don't you let them think/feel for themselves and instead focus your efforts on bringing to our attention the issues you feel are worthy of discussion?

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money - and the longer you go on telling them not to feel that way, the longer they will come on here expressing just that opinion.

Hey one ass whooping is enough, its Christmas after all.

[hammered]

A lot of truth in that, I think. Whatever the motivations (commented on countless times here), Thaksin didn't do as other ousted Thai leaders have done (despite initially saying that he would). I think the coup-makers' situation has been rather like the dog confronted by a cat that won't run - the dog gets confused. With Thaksin ousted but refusing to stay "gone", the "normal" pattern of such things in Thailand has been upset - and the rest of what we have seen follows..... About Abhisit getting up to speed with it (even belatedly and pretty much on his own), I'm not sure; in any event, my take is that others that count have already decided that it's time to re-shuffle the deck and are just waiting for the time to be right (as in enough ducks lined up) to play the hand.

PS> I'm reminded privately that Thaksin left Thailand fully six weeks before Somchai became PM. A small point for some (Samak/Somchai = same same?), but it's as well to be accurate. At the time Thaksin left, Somchai was still education minister - not the most obvious office from which to enable Thaksin's departure. The point about which body (i.e. the Supreme Court) actually did grant permission stands. What were their reasons for reaching that decision? We can only speculate.

Re the Abhisit stuff imho those that count are split between those wanting to replace him, those wanting to do a deal with public enemy number one, those looking to the future, those who support him and of course those who support Thaksin. Abhisit's tenure is probably directly linked to a bigger change failing outbreaks of anarchy which I think at least attempts at we could see soon. Another indicator will be the potantial disolution case of the Dems there are certainly power groups that this would suit and they are not only pro-Thaksin ones and there are also those who would see an impending case as leverage so the EC decision will be interesting on different levels. Abhisit also like Samak and Somchai before him has the big card of disolving parliament available to him. That is a wild card and a powerful one. His predecessors didnt use it, and in Somchai's case that looks like a miscalculation, but Abhisit just may. He has already bucked the trend against his coalition allies and even many of his parties big wigs unlike his predecessors. That will probably give those wanting to change him but not wanting a PTP instant return pause for thought. Plus somewhere he has a very powerful backer as we saw over the police chief issue and maybe surprisingly there has been little analysis of this.

Edited to add: Can we have an Xmas asswhupping thread where everyone can go to row without disturbing the subject of every other thread. Maybe sticky it too hey and moderators can move any row related nonsense straight to it too.

Edited December 23, 2009 by hammered

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money

Why is that even a point worthy of such debate? And, how many people on this forum truly come out saying Thaksin was without flaw as PM?

To me the main point of concern is that Thailand is unlikely to become a democracy in the foreseeable future. The ease with which a coup d'etat could be committed, and then a 'preffered' government (I'm being kind) installed, shows this clearly.

[beammeup]

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money

Why is that even a point worthy of such debate? And, how many people on this forum truly come out saying Thaksin was without flaw as PM?

To me the main point of concern is that Thailand is unlikely to become a democracy in the foreseeable future. The ease with which a coup d'etat could be committed, and then a 'preffered' government (I'm being kind) installed, shows this clearly.

I think another ass whopping is required!!

[ballpoint]

To me the main point of concern is that Thailand is unlikely to become a democracy in the foreseeable future. The ease with which a coup d'etat could be committed, and then a 'preffered' government (I'm being kind) installed, shows this clearly.

Indeed, the ease with which the last coup was committed would suggest it was very much supported by the general population. Thai democracy in action?

Edited December 23, 2009 by ballpoint

[BangkokJazz]

Democracy in Asian countries seems like it will, by virtue of different cultural and societal values, be a different face from what we see in western systems. Like it or not, Thailand is a young democracy. After only 70 years, there are bound to be growing pains. The US, after 70 years of democracy, had a rather severe growing pain called the US Civil War. I certainly don't wish anything violent on Thai society, but there are deep regional divisions here, just as were present in the US. Those divisions can be almost impossible to reconcile, unless the status quo changes.

There is one large unifying factor for Thailand. I fear for the country without it, in a way, but I know the Thai people I work with day to day. They are good people, and I am sure many who work with them would say the same (unless you are working in a less than savory field). They will, at the end of the day, find a way to go on. Must be the optimist in me.

Edited December 23, 2009 by BangkokJazz

[hammered]

Democracy in Asian countries seems like it will, by virtue of different cultural and societal values, be a different face from what we see in western systems. Like it or not, Thailand is a young democracy. After only 70 years, there are bound to be growing pains. The US, after 70 years of democracy, had a rather severe growing pain called the US Civil War. I certainly don't wish anything violent on Thai society, but there are deep regional divisions here, just as were present in the US. Those divisions can be almost impossible to reconcile, unless the status quo changes.

There is one large unifying factor for Thailand. I fear for the country without it, in a way, but I know the Thai people I work with day to day. They are good people, and I am sure many who work with them would say the same (unless you are working in a less than savory field). They will, at the end of the day, find a way to go on. Must be the optimist in me.

In the coming years the Chinese system will also offer an alternative role model of capitalism without democracy. I would guess some countires poltical classes are looking at it now after it was better at handling the global recession than traditional democracies. The coming years will be interesting and the idea of western style pluralistic representative democracy will faces challenges. Also from notions of direct democracy now that at least western countries have the technology to realise it and with western poltical classes being somewhat poorly viewed by their people although dont expect the interested classes of polticians, media, business groupings and academics to push for direct democracy in form at all.

[LaoPo]

Democracy in Asian countries seems like it will, by virtue of different cultural and societal values, be a different face from what we see in western systems. Like it or not, Thailand is a young democracy. After only 70 years, there are bound to be growing pains. The US, after 70 years of democracy, had a rather severe growing pain called the US Civil War. I certainly don't wish anything violent on Thai society, but there are deep regional divisions here, just as were present in the US. Those divisions can be almost impossible to reconcile, unless the status quo changes.

There is one large unifying factor for Thailand. I fear for the country without it, in a way, but I know the Thai people I work with day to day. They are good people, and I am sure many who work with them would say the same (unless you are working in a less than savory field). They will, at the end of the day, find a way to go on. Must be the optimist in me.

Hear, hear.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

Edited December 23, 2009 by LaoPo

[LaoPo]

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice

You? Unbiased? LOL

I don't think anyone who comes on here expressing an opinion can truly call themselves that. We all have prejudicies of one sort or another, just some people refuse to see it in themselves.

As for leaving decisions to Thai justice, Thai justice has already spoken on Thaksin, yet the defence council refuses to sit on this forum.

Perhaps as a New Year resolution you might consider focusing your attention in other areas Mr LaoPo? Rather than getting all hot and bothered by all the anti-Thaksin sentiment on this forum - rather than spending all your time telling people that Thaksin isn't the only bad guy out there - rather than accusing people of being banned members returning and of being obssessed.... rather than all of that telling people how to think, how to feel, why don't you let them think/feel for themselves and instead focus your efforts on bringing to our attention the issues you feel are worthy of discussion?

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money - and the longer you go on telling them not to feel that way, the longer they will come on here expressing just that opinion.

...and why would I do that dear Mr. Rixalex? To please you ?

Not a chance I'm afraid.

But, I am afraid that a few members here, you amongst them, are very bad readers of WHAT I write and HOW. Those few are forcefully trying, over and over again, to push me in a certain corner, a former PM concerned, their corner.

But, I don't belong to that group and never will. You may shout what you want and wish but I'm above that point, since long.

Oh, BTW, I don't care a bit about that former PM, I couldn't care less.

You chaps seem not to understand that it's the hatred, bittered, angered and obsessed postings of those few I'm against since it's bad for the well being of those few themselves.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

[Publicus]

I'm not defending the ex PM; I'm unbiased and leave the problems and decisions to Thai Justice

You? Unbiased? LOL

I don't think anyone who comes on here expressing an opinion can truly call themselves that. We all have prejudicies of one sort or another, just some people refuse to see it in themselves.

As for leaving decisions to Thai justice, Thai justice has already spoken on Thaksin, yet the defence council refuses to sit on this forum.

Perhaps as a New Year resolution you might consider focusing your attention in other areas Mr LaoPo? Rather than getting all hot and bothered by all the anti-Thaksin sentiment on this forum - rather than spending all your time telling people that Thaksin isn't the only bad guy out there - rather than accusing people of being banned members returning and of being obssessed.... rather than all of that telling people how to think, how to feel, why don't you let them think/feel for themselves and instead focus your efforts on bringing to our attention the issues you feel are worthy of discussion?

Because at the end of the day i'm sorry to inform you that there will always be people who don't care for Thaksin - there will always be people who consider him a selfish rat-bag who cares not for anyone but himself and his money - and the longer you go on telling them not to feel that way, the longer they will come on here expressing just that opinion.

...and why would I do that dear Mr. Rixalex? To please you ?

Not a chance I'm afraid.

<<snip>> 

You chaps seem not to understand that it's the hatred, bittered, angered and obsessed postings of those few I'm against since it's bad for the well being of those few themselves.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

LaoPo

Your motivations and purposes towards saving us from ourselves must be the confluence of the missionary in you, the time of year, some tendency towards being a shrink, a pressing concern for the mental and emotional well being of others, an experience or desire to be social worker - all of which any of us can do without, thanks  as it could be considered a bit overbearing and itself zealous.

Don't let us spoil your Merry Christmas. 

Edited December 23, 2009 by Publicus

[LaoPo]

Don't let us spoil your Merry Christmas. 

You won't Publicus...you won't, don't worry.

And, I hope you will be able to have a little bit of the Christmas atmosphere in China.

China is adapting the Xmas atmosphere in shops, streets and restaurants more and more but it will never be the same as back home, will it?

Anyway:

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your loved ones

LaoPo

[baht&sold]

Don't let us spoil your Merry Christmas. 

You won't Publicus...you won't, don't worry.

And, I hope you will be able to have a little bit of the Christmas atmosphere in China.

China is adapting the Xmas atmosphere in shops, streets and restaurants more and more but it will never be the same as back home, will it?

Anyway:

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your loved ones

LaoPo

ZZzzzzZzzz....

[Donnyboy]

Don't let us spoil your Merry Christmas.

You won't Publicus...you won't, don't worry.

And, I hope you will be able to have a little bit of the Christmas atmosphere in China.

China is adapting the Xmas atmosphere in shops, streets and restaurants more and more but it will never be the same as back home, will it?

Anyway:

MERRY CHRISTMAS to you and your loved ones

LaoPo

ZZzzzzZzzz....

bah humbug!