Mugging

[Lovedog100]

Really sorry to hear about your misfortune on both accounts. as the money tightens the thugs are getting more aggressive. And it is not just here in Pattaya 20 kilos from there in Bang Sare - Sattahib area. Juk (our local officer & protection after we got robbed at gunpoint( A fake 45 cal. I couldn't tell cause they killed the lights- Not that it would have mattered 5 were in on it 4 have gotten 20+ year sentences & 1 is still at large) Juk tells me he bags at a minimum of 2 a day. I carry a marine flare gun that will incinerate the insides at point blank range when investigating unusual noises. I had a 38 for a while but was concerned with shooting an innocent if the 1st round missed. The flare gun at range doesn't ever miss & has a zero to none life expectancy rate. Unfortunately in your situation you were not ready for the attack. I am glad you came out of it OK. I agree PIH would have been 2000 baht for the stitches & another 2000 for a cat scan if needed.We have added many measures to our security along with a not so friendly to neighbor black lab with big white teeth. Since the robbery we had our Golden retriever sleeps a hel_l of a lot lighter.

To bad they didn't steal your cell phone & use it. That's how they tracked the rat bastards that staged our event.

Sure would have loved to had my Glock I have in Nevada.(but a 9mm. bullet would go through many layers of brick before coming to rest. ..........but I thought there were only 3 initially & turned out to be 5 . I would hate to have had one of the 2 outside with a real piece & had a shootout at the homestead. That & I was separated from my gal & wouldn't risk unloading a 9mm. without being able to identify the target & not knowing where my gal was.

One thing for sure. You can never be to sure & assume that cause you have always been safe in the past means that good luck will continue. I am over the salty part of my event but wouldn't feel to hideously sorry if someone coming in to do harm got 3 or 4 organs fused together. Glad your safe!

Sorry to tell you this. Your flare gun is useless. I was accidentally shot by one. It bounced off my chest and caused more damage to the floor of the boat than me. I didn't even get a slight burn out of it, nor did it hurt when hit.

[Mobi]

We ( wife & I) both carry Patients card from BPH , BUT , if it is in the stolen wallet ????

tuck it into your underpants or socks or any available bodily crevice.

Baht rules in Patts even at the expense of Health & well being I fear.

Seems to be another reason to look at alternatives to Pattaya for a destination of long term breaks.

Why? Name a tropical resort, with all that Pattaya has to offer, with a lower crime rate?

Hope you are OK & would love to see the Police Report ?? on this in the paper

To all intents and purposes The police report is meaningless and not worth the paper it is written on.

Edited December 23, 2009 by Mobi

[expatgaz]

Our infamous media moguls aren't prepared to voice concerns abt things like Bangkok Pattaya Hospital as they don't see it being in there interest,very selective journalism,very much like dr ian who can be found at just abt every free event in town.doesn't he work at the said hospital ???? surely he could voice the public concern,he's on the tv enough but maybe to busy getting pissed on free drinks.

[prefabs]

Our infamous media moguls aren't prepared to voice concerns abt things like Bangkok Pattaya Hospital as they don't see it being in there interest,very selective journalism,very much like dr ian who can be found at just abt every free event in town.doesn't he work at the said hospital ???? surely he could voice the public concern,he's on the tv enough but maybe to busy getting pissed on free drinks.

I bet he could write a book about it

[Ulysses G.]

Sorry to tell you this. Your flare gun is useless. I was accidentally shot by one. It bounced off my chest and caused more damage to the floor of the boat than me. I didn't even get a slight burn out of it, nor did it hurt when hit.

If someone stuck it in my face, I would find someone else to bother.

[simon43]

I think as a forum sponsor (insurance forum), I am allowed to mention my product and website, which I created for exactly this type of circumstance. It's a medical insurance/ID tag which can be either worn around the neck, attached to a keyring, or slipped into your wallet. I dubbed it 'EMSTag' and it's available at www.emstag.com

Lickily, I've never had to use my own tag, but it is reasurring to know that if I'm mugged/unconscious etc, the money vultures at BPH will not have any excuse to delay treatment

Simon

[bartender100]

I think as a forum sponsor (insurance forum), I am allowed to mention my product and website, which I created for exactly this type of circumstance. It's a medical insurance/ID tag which can be either worn around the neck, attached to a keyring, or slipped into your wallet. I dubbed it 'EMSTag' and it's available at www.emstag.com

Lickily, I've never had to use my own tag, but it is reasurring to know that if I'm mugged/unconscious etc, the money vultures at BPH will not have any excuse to delay treatment

Simon

Saw your advert on a baht bus on my last trip, great idea, i will subscribe before my next long planned stay. If the OP had one? would BPH been aware of it importance?

[Chaimai]

I echo the many comments deploring this vicious attack and also wish KKK well for a full recovery.

I also share the view that a media campaign should be staged against BPH for their absurd policy.

[gameon]

For those who are insured, I believe they can pre-register with BPH. You could sew a compartment in your pants for a credit card. I think BPH is best avoided overall. Their reputation precedes them. That said, if the OP was taken to a more Thai hospital such as Pattaya Memorial, would he have received immediate treatment? Or would he have shamefully been denied as happened at BPH. Reading this story raises my blood pressure.

just out of curiosity...........is your credit card compartment stitched into the front or back? regular trousers or do you prefer to keep it closer still and stitch it in your undies?

[Tired]

"It wasn't Swang Boriboon. Apparently is was a big white amulance and Swang Borriboon don't have them. They have converted pick-up trucks. I believe only places here with UK style amulances are BPH and memorial. I wish it had been Swang Borriboon I might have ended up in Naklua hospital."

[philliphn]

Bangkok Pattaya Hospital should be ashamed!

People should register their dis satisfaction by not using Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for their medical care.

[Phil Conners]

^ Many of us have done this for years. Unfortunately there are so many mugs in Pattaya who keep using it, not being able to comprehend how different Thailand is from the west.

[cmdream]

Bangkok Pattaya Hospital should be ashamed!

People should register their dis satisfaction by not using Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for their medical care.

COD, Cause of Death, neglect for lack of money. Shame,shame on the hospital staff.

[KKK]

This is a very sad story, and I hope that the OP and his friend make full recoveries, and that not too much physical and psychological damage has been done by this incident.

But, if I may, I would like to suggest that we keep a sense of proportion about this.

Firstly, on the question of personal safety, in and around Pattaya.

Certainly it could be a lot better, by introducing some very simple measures: like having police patrol the beach areas at night (where many of the mugging crimes occur); keeping the lights on the beach all night instead of turning them off and leaving very dark areas where crimes can be perpetrated; (after all Pattaya is open 24/7 and tourists like to wander along the beach at all hours); putting muggers away for long periods instead of letting them out on bail, and rarely ever requiring them to do jail time. Time and time again we have seen muggers re-offend, almost with impunity. A strong deterrent would do a lot to reduce the rate of random muggings, as right now, the muggers figure they will never do time, even if caught.

I am sure there are many other measures which could also be introduced to reduce crime - the above are just random examples off the top of my head - but the fact remains that by any world standards, I simply do not believe that Pattaya is a dangerous city. There have been endless debates on this, and all kinds of stats banded about, but for me the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Since I moved to Pattaya City (as opposed to living 20kms east of the city) a couple of months back I have spent many an hour at all hours of the day and night walking around in Pattaya in all the popular areas - Walking Street, Beach Road, Soi Bukow and so on, and never once have I seen even a suggestion of an incident. I have seen thousands of tourists, wandering around and enjoying themselves well into the small hours (3 a.m. and beyond) and all seem to be safe and happy. I have not even seen any signs of the so-called lager louts from England and elsewhere making trouble and starting fights in the beer bars.

Maybe I have just been lucky - but I think not. If you read the gallant Rimmer's accounts of crimes in his daily Pattaya press clippings, you can see that the level of crime - from muggings, to house burglaries, and even the occasional shootings and murders are very likely at a lower level than in any major western city, and certainly much lower than in popular tourist spots, such as Florida or the Caribbean.

We live in the 21st century, and there is crime all over the world, and there will always be drug addicts, opportunists, con men and scam artists, starving and penniless people who will commit crimes to stay alive, feed there expensive habits, or are just plain evil and would rather break the law than do an honest day's work. This is life, and Pattaya is after all, probably the largest whore house in the world. Anyone who comes to 'Sin City' and expects the City Fathers to provide 24 hours protection from all the pimps, whores and low life that inevitably inhabit such a place, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

It is of no consolation to the OP who has been savagely mugged, but the fact remains that by taking simple precautions, one can avoid all but the most unusual acts of crime. There are obvious measures that can be taken, like not walking in dark and out of the way places late at night where muggers may be hovering. Even areas of the Beach should be no-go areas after midnight. The rule of thumb is to stay in areas which are well lit and more importantly, where there are plenty of people around. Avoid any signs or trouble, including local gangs wandering around, or even drunken farangs misbehaving. Do not ever get into any dispute with any Thai, whether or not you are in the right. Just walk away. And never get too drunk that you are incapable of taking proper care of yourself and are consequently an obvious target for a potential mugger. Senior citizens should take even more care as it has been shown that elderly and vulnerable people are often targeted by muggers. They are all cowards and tend to keep clear of strapping, male six footers, unless they are in a gang, and the farang is all alone.

All this will not guarantee that you will not be mugged, but it will reduce the odds of it happening. This is so in any city in the world, and I really don't believe the dangers are greater here than in most places in the west. How many downtown city areas in the UK would you Brits be happy to go to after dark? Not many, I'll be bound.

Now to the issue of medical assistance. As many of you probably know, all accidents are attended to in the first incidence, by "free lance " ambulance/ rescue services, who receive payment from the hospitals for taking the business to them. If you happen to be a victim but are still conscious, you can tell the rescue service which hospital you wish to be sent to and they will respect your wishes. So if, for example, you know you cannot afford Bangkok Pattaya's charges, then you can elect to go to one of the other hospitals - Pattaya Memorial, Pattaya International, or even Banglamung government hospital.

The subject of BPH refusing to treat accident victims until they have seen the "colour of their money" and is well documented, and there have been a number of distressing incidences where people have died as a result of this "commercial" policy. The hospital has always denied it and many threads have been removed, at the hospital's behest, but everyone knows that it is so and their denials are meaningless. This is Thailand where the name of the game is to lie and deny your way out of all difficult situations. If you live or visit here, you must understand this and accept it.

So the fact remains that the hospitals will not treat you without knowing you can pay. This is a fact of life,and it doesn't matter how many column inches of outrage are written on this, how many threads are closed, or how many denials are made, it will never change, and if you think you can change it you are wasting your time. Accept it as a fact and move on.

So what can you do if you are mugged and are unconscious and the muggers have stolen all your possessions? Well the only suggestion I can make in these circumstances is to make sure that you do carry some kind of medical insurance ( some local plans are not too exorbitant) and make sure the card for this is carried on your body, but not in your wallet. Maybe inside your underpants might be a good place, as even muggers are unlikely to investigate your nether regions. I carry a card which I am told is recognised by all hospitals in Thailand. My insurer is a member of a special scheme called "China Medi Help" which provides emergency medical and evacuation assistance online. I understand that all health insurers operating in Thailand have signed up to this scheme and that the hospitals are in the loop. There will even be a new card issued soon which can be swiped at the hospitals, and the computer will come up with your full personal details including medical conditions and scope of cover.

Outside of this, the only other suggestion I can make is to carry a: "in case of a medical emergency call...." card which again is kept on your body, and NOT in your wallet. It might be a good idea to have this card in Thai as well as English.

At the end of the day (what a terrible cliche), you are visiting or live in a "third world" country, where the rule of law doesn't really exist in any accepted western sense, and even if it does, it is enforced by a bunch of organised Mafiosos, who are in league with all the local criminals.

It's a chance you take for living in and enjoying this slightly flawed paradise.

Once again my heart goes out to the unfortunate victims of this particular incident - get well soon.

While I agree with some of your comments above I feel some clarification is necessary:

No one has mentioned increase in police presence. I certainly do not wish to see Pattaya go the way of the near police state as it is apparantly in UK with cameras watching your every move. I have had and hope to continue to have a good relationship with Pattaya's Boys in Blue (the Thai ones not the pretend farang police who IMHO shouldn't exist). Thailand's police force has obliged me in many instances like helping push my car out of an intersection when it broke down, giving me an escort to a hotel when I couldn't find one due to lack of English signs, catching the gang of thieves who were repeatedly robbing my house etc.

Pattaya is not the whore house that it used to be and to call it that these days would be an insult to Thai society and all the residents of this city and you should know better. If you stay away from those well known "red-light" areas as I do you will find pleasant and courteous people all living "normal lives"; married, with kids, retired etc.

Now as to your statements

If you live or visit here, you must understand this and accept it.

and

Accept it as a fact and move on.

I could not disagree more strongly. Afterall you have given your comments here why shouldn't others. Haven't you ever heard of "freedom of speech"? And as a tax paying resident of 30 years whilst not being allowed to vote am I not entiled to voice an opinion.

In my 30 years I have seen this city and Thailand as a whole change tremendously. All in the name of progress or civilisation. Many laws or policies have been introduced following, sometimes, the west, such as smoking in public places, sale of alcohol and cigarettes, age of consent and majority, democratisation. However the "no money, no treatment" policy of hospitals remains the same. If this country is to continue on its path of "westernisation/civilisation" this needs to be looked at. Failure to do so may cause Thailand to continually "lose face" and does nothing for their PR with the rest of the world whom the are largely dependant upon for tourism, export etc.

[Mobi]

KKK, a few responses to your points.

1. By saying "accept it as a fact and move on" in no way implies that you cannot and should not be free to express any opinion you wish. I was merely offering a bit of sage advice to the folk for the sake of their "peace of mind", because trust me, things will never change.

2. I too first came to Pattaya in 1974, and have been coming here regularly ever since, and have lived here since 2003, all be it not always in the 'heart of the city', but I so think I know a thing or two about this place. There are thousands of bars, massage parlours and out and out brothels stretching from Naklua in the north to Jomtien and beyond in the South, stretching from the beach, right up to Sukhumvit, and even beyond, eastwards, where the world's oldest profession is also fast taking hold. Every one of these establishments employs anything from two to dozens of girls (and sometimes boys) whose prime purpose is to sleep with customers for money. If that doesn't qualify Pattaya as one of the world's largest whore houses, then I don't know what does. A few up market places like Central Dept store, and a Hilton or two does not change the fact that this city has grown on the back of prostitution is is still far and away the principle business that attracts tourists here. And unlike you, I can promise you that the City fathers understand this very well, and is the main reason why things will never change.

3. I am not talking about a police state. I am talking about a few "friendly bobbies" patrolling the beaches at night to scare away the muggers. Of course it will never happen, they are too busy scamming motorists, taking kick backs from local business owners, and doing anything but official police duties.

4. The "no money, no treatment "policy will never change. There are no laws to enforce change and nobody cares, accept a few farangs who are unfortunate enough to suffer from this policy. These hospitals are owned and run by wealthy, influential people, and they cannot be touched. I guarantee that if this thread continues to criticize BPH in an unfavorable light, this thread WILL BE CLOSED. As for expecting Howard and his press mates to put their heads above the parapet, it is just plain silly. He is subject to the same arbitrary coercion and corruption as the rest of us, and he is just trying to eek a living in a corrupt society where the price of a life is a few thousand lousy Baht. As it is, in his own way he does bring a lot of injustices to the attention of the public, but there is clearly a limit on what he is able to do.

5. As for all this effecting tourism, I will tell you that the Thais understand much better than we do that the tourists will never stop coming. For every tourist who is outraged and cancels his holiday, there are a dozen new ones to take his place. Yes, Pattaya's reputation may cause certain sectors of the Thai community to lose face, but the rest understand only too well that without Pattaya's seedy reputation, the farang money would quickly dry up. They are prepared to tolerate a little loss of face for their 'pot of gold'.

6. Of course Pattaya has thousands of clean living residents, bringing up kids and and leading virtuous lives. But so does any other 'red light' town anywhere in the world. But I challenge you to find a single family who, in one way or another doesn't owe his job and existence in this town, to the the proceeds, directly or indirectly, of tourism, which again, directly or indirectly, has its roots in prostitution in its many guises.

I hope that your injuries are soon healed, and that you are soon back to health and happiness.

[KKK]

"It wasn't Swang Boriboon. Apparently is was a big white amulance and Swang Borriboon don't have them. They have converted pick-up trucks. I believe only places here with UK style amulances are BPH and memorial. I wish it had been Swang Borriboon I might have ended up in Naklua hospital."

Personally I have never seen one of these. And I rarely go anywhere near the highway where I'm sure most of them would hang out due to the high road accident rate. A friend who just visited says he has seen them so perhaps it was them after all, I really don't know.

[Mobi]

I think as a forum sponsor (insurance forum), I am allowed to mention my product and website, which I created for exactly this type of circumstance. It's a medical insurance/ID tag which can be either worn around the neck, attached to a keyring, or slipped into your wallet. I dubbed it 'EMSTag' and it's available at www.emstag.com

Lickily, I've never had to use my own tag, but it is reasurring to know that if I'm mugged/unconscious etc, the money vultures at BPH will not have any excuse to delay treatment

Simon

A "dog tag" sounds like an excellent idea. I hope the chain looks cheap enough so that it is not an attraction to the muggers.

The key to living happy and safely here is not to try and change things, but to find ways to deal with things as they are.

After all, the the recovering alkie's mantra is:

... "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference....

This could also be the mantra for every farang who lives in this fair land.

[Beardog]

Really sorry to hear about your misfortune on both accounts. as the money tightens the thugs are getting more aggressive. And it is not just here in Pattaya 20 kilos from there in Bang Sare - Sattahib area. Juk (our local officer & protection after we got robbed at gunpoint( A fake 45 cal. I couldn't tell cause they killed the lights- Not that it would have mattered 5 were in on it 4 have gotten 20+ year sentences & 1 is still at large) Juk tells me he bags at a minimum of 2 a day. I carry a marine flare gun that will incinerate the insides at point blank range when investigating unusual noises. I had a 38 for a while but was concerned with shooting an innocent if the 1st round missed. The flare gun at range doesn't ever miss & has a zero to none life expectancy rate. Unfortunately in your situation you were not ready for the attack. I am glad you came out of it OK. I agree PIH would have been 2000 baht for the stitches & another 2000 for a cat scan if needed.We have added many measures to our security along with a not so friendly to neighbor black lab with big white teeth. Since the robbery we had our Golden retriever sleeps a hel_l of a lot lighter.

To bad they didn't steal your cell phone & use it. That's how they tracked the rat bastards that staged our event.

Sure would have loved to had my Glock I have in Nevada.(but a 9mm. bullet would go through many layers of brick before coming to rest. ..........but I thought there were only 3 initially & turned out to be 5 . I would hate to have had one of the 2 outside with a real piece & had a shootout at the homestead. That & I was separated from my gal & wouldn't risk unloading a 9mm. without being able to identify the target & not knowing where my gal was.

One thing for sure. You can never be to sure & assume that cause you have always been safe in the past means that good luck will continue. I am over the salty part of my event but wouldn't feel to hideously sorry if someone coming in to do harm got 3 or 4 organs fused together. Glad your safe!

Sorry to tell you this. Your flare gun is useless. I was accidentally shot by one. It bounced off my chest and caused more damage to the floor of the boat than me. I didn't even get a slight burn out of it, nor did it hurt when hit.

Certainly must have been out of date. Watched Jenny May burn to the ground(in the water at Mala wharf.Harbor in Maui. Instantly incinerated. The drunk capt. discharged it accidentally right in the harbor. Magnesium is one of the hottest burning metals. Try putting a strobe in your hand & light it. Your hand will torch up nicely. you have to replace the flares once a year. You my friend had an old flare or a dud. Have shot 3 out of date so far here & set up a makeshift archery target at 30 yards & there was nothing left but 1 piece of metal holding it up. I will take my chances. 5 boats & 6 tenders in Hawaii They were always used as my fallback weapon(Don't shoot the deck to see if it works) Magnesium does not bounce off an object without removing a lot of area to go with it.

You sure you didn't have a bottle rocket. the type I use is the same as the military flares they train in Bang Sare with. they go about 1/4 of a mile in the air.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Beardog

[KKK]

MOBI: Twice you mentioned "things will never change". That seems to me a very defeatist attitude. Things can and have changed. After all wasn't the introduction of democracy the result of the demonstrations against and the eventual removal of Suchinda in 1991. Weren't "tax clearances" stopped after a number of farang bad press reports sometime in the 80's. Wasn't Taxsin Shinawatra removed more recently. Wasn't the 6 month per year rule for 30 day on arrival visas recinded. All right most of these were not the result of farang intervention/wishes. But "you can make a difference". I personally was highly involved with the Bangkok Post in the 80's over the bad press reports by the BSA over Thailand's piracy of Microsoft software. Eventually the BSA gave up and Microsoft opened an office here. Which is all that I asked for. After all if you have no legitimate points of sale how can you complain about piracy. A letter I wrote many years ago about firework safety has been printed by the Bangkok post at least twice. Fireworks were banned from sale for a period of time but seem to have reappeared. It is possible to "make a change" and the "no money no treatment" policy of BPH and possibly other hospitals is something that needs looking at. That is what the majority of commenters have said. And if Thailand is to continue its westernisation / civilisation policy then they too should see that. Because "These hospitals are owned and run by wealthy, influential people" in no way exempts them from public disapproval or opinion.

Perhaps I live a very closeted life. I rarely go out being very content with my home and all I have in it. But when I do I meet many Thai and western families who recently arrived have nothing to do with the prostitution that may exist here. Of course you can argue that e.g when they go for a haircut, the barber gets most of his trade/existance from prostitution. But that (prostitution) is not the reason for these families being here. I have often wondered why some of the larger businesses took so long to establish a presence here. Macro for instance has only just opened a Pattaya branch while they have been near to Chonburi city for some 20+ years. I feel it is the changing face of Pattaya that allows them to now open. And this is the policy of our local government. Entertainment zoning is now in effect. Somebody who recently opened a 24 hour karaoke business whose sound system could be heard 1km away keeping school children from sleeping at night didn't last long. And even in the entertainment zones aren't they all supposed to close at 1am. It is changing and to deny it would be foolish.

And hasn't Thailand just recently suffered lowest tourism figures in what was it 47 years. Didn't that prompt the TAT to budget millions if not billions on mini tourism fairs in Europe to try and regain face and resurect European tourism. So the Thais are very well aware of and concered with tourism so to say "Thais understand much better than we do that the tourists will never stop coming" is just plain wrong.

While Thailand and Pattaya may not the best place in the world to live, where is. Utopia doesn't exist except in the mind. But we can and I hope many will continue to try and "make a difference".

[KKK]

I think as a forum sponsor (insurance forum), I am allowed to mention my product and website, which I created for exactly this type of circumstance. It's a medical insurance/ID tag which can be either worn around the neck, attached to a keyring, or slipped into your wallet. I dubbed it 'EMSTag' and it's available at www.emstag.com

Lickily, I've never had to use my own tag, but it is reasurring to know that if I'm mugged/unconscious etc, the money vultures at BPH will not have any excuse to delay treatment

Simon

A "dog tag" sounds like an excellent idea. I hope the chain looks cheap enough so that it is not an attraction to the muggers.

The key to living happy and safely here is not to try and change things, but to find ways to deal with things as they are.

After all, the the recovering alkie's mantra is:

... "grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference....

This could also be the mantra for every farang who lives in this fair land.

My dog has an underskin ID chip that can be scanned and the number looked up in a central database to find my details of ownership. Whilst not saying that this should be enforced something similar for humans may not be such a bad idea. If I had had one that contained my insurance details perhaps BPH would have treated me sooner.

[tatt2dude]

For those who are insured, I believe they can pre-register with BPH.

And if you carry insurance then BPH will make sure you are registered and everything is in order before they treat you.

So remember to release the pressure on the tourniquet every 15 seconds while they sign you in.

[simon43]

I also carry - at the behest of my employer - a brightly colored card written in Thai and English which promises 10,000 baht reward if I am speedily delivered to the nearest hospital, if I should be involved in a serious accident/illness.

Who knows if all these precautions work in practice? But taking some precautions has to be better than nowt!

Simon

[KKK]

I would again just like to say thanks to all those who have offered their support and good wishes to me. I owe you all a big hug. Being able to discuss my experience has helped me tremendously with coming to terms with it. "Closure" if you like, though I've not been a great believer in that or "therapy".

I feel myself on the road to recovery although it may take some months before any after effects, if any, are fully known. And if there are any how much of it could be blamed on the delayed treatment by BPH will probably never be known.

Keep up all the good work done in this thread and the forum generally. "We can make a difference." It is not my intention to just "have a gripe". I would like to see some change so that others would not suffer as I have done.

[Mobi]

KKK you are correct; things do sometimes change, but I regret to say only for the worst. I don't want to turn this thread into a Thailand bashing thread, but as a person who lived and worked here in the seventies and eighties, and a person who visited frequently in the 90's and always maintained a residence here, to a person who retired here in the 000's, I do get out and about a great deal, and travel extensively throughout Thailand, including cities such as Bangkok (which I know very well), Chiang Mai, Isan and elsewhere. In the past year alone I have clocked up 36,000 kms in my car. I speak passable Thai and have many friends , both Thai and farang who have lived here as long, if not longer than I, and not a single one has any material difference in opinion to the one I have expressed in this thread.

I am afraid that you must indeed lead a closeted life, and it is very surprising to me that after so many years in this country that you still look at Thailand with rose tinted glasses and and believe that sometime soon it will become a law abiding, civilized democracy. Maybe one day, but not in our life time.

As for smoking bans, and trading hours, entertainment zones - well I'm afraid it's all a matter of how much the establishments kickback to the BIB. There are very few places that enforce the smoking ban, most places, in and out of the central area stay open well after official hours, and almost anywhere in Pattaya you can find literally hundreds of places open all night. New places are opening almost daily in residential areas (both farang pubs and Thai karaokes), underage kids are employed all over the place, and pedophilia is rampant in Pattaya, and is aided and abetted by the BIB. (The occasional farangs who are sometimes arrested and are put in jail have been practicing their pernicious trade for years, sometimes decades, in full knowledge of the police, and only fall foul of the law when their money runs out.)

Yes, some places fall foul of the BIB and the owners and managers are arrested and sometimes the places are closed down. In almost every instance, this action is the result of either failure by the owners to pay the price demanded by the BIB, or due to a business conflict where someone has paid off the police to to their dirty work. In most cases, large sums of money change hands, and the place is back in business. Sometimes, especially when farangs are involved, a dead body is found a few days after the raid, and the official verdict is always suicide.

When you walk down Walking Street and you are confronted by blond Caucasian women who are touting for you to come into their bar which is full of European prostitutes, (and one is even dancing on a balcony, in full view of the tourists - and police), then you know that enforcement of any law in this city is just plain farce. A farang is thrown in jail for trying to earn a few bob, working without a work permit, yet there are dozens of European prostitutes plying their trade in full view of the police. Every month or so, some of them are arrested, and within hours, they are back in business.

I could go on and on and on.....

But as the legendary Trink used to say, "nuff said"...

[barryofthailand]

It would be good if some of the local press (Howard, where are you now?) would put a story like this on the frontpage so perhaps someone who can and will make a difference learns about it.

The way hospitals here, particularly BPH, would be cause for criminal lawsuits in the west.

Sorry to say, it really wouldn't make any difference. A few years ago, maybe some of you remember, a friend of mine was involved in a very bad accident and was taken to BKK hospital in Pattaya. He was fully employed and had insurance, but was refused treatment because he had no I.D. or money in his pockets. He was unconscious, and was transferred to chonburi where he died en route, for the lack of blood. This was front page news in the Pattaya People paper, with a headline titled How Much Is A Life Worth. So you see doesn't make any difference. If you have no I.D. or money BHP will refuse treatment.

Barry

Edited December 24, 2009 by barryofthailand

[KKK]

If you have no I.D. or money BHP will refuse treatment.

Barry

There has to be a viable alternative. The death of your friend at the hands of BPH's "no money no treatment" policy is inexcusable and I'm terribly sorry for your loss. How can anybody who was involved in the hospital side of that case live with themselves. I know I couldn't. It was tantamount to "murder by default".

I've said it before but perhaps it should be repeated: Enough emergency treatment should be given to ALL to avoid death or serious disability irrespective of financial status. I'm pretty sure that the hospitals will be reimbursed in the majority of cases. Judging by the cases reported in this thread it appears that most carry insurance. So once the victim is in a fit state to inform the hospital of his insurance status any treatment prior to that point would be covered. So the "no money no treatment" rule need not apply.

Are there any publicly available records that show the amount of defaulted payments. I doubt it because it seems that all payments must be guaranteed before any treatment given. Perhaps the hospitals and especially BPH should give my idea a try.

To all the doctors/nurses/investors/stockholders of BHP remember you would not be treated any different than I and the many others who have suffered at the hands of BPH and the other ciminally insane hospital policies of Thailand should you arrive with no ID and no money.

There seems to be enough IQ in the directors of BPH to make money so let's use some of that IQ to come up with a viable policy that would satisfy your stockholders and potential victims.

Edited December 24, 2009 by KKK

[KKK]

KKK you are correct; things do sometimes change, but I regret to say only for the worst. I don't want to turn this thread into a Thailand bashing thread, but as a person who lived and worked here in the seventies and eighties, and a person who visited frequently in the 90's and always maintained a residence here, to a person who retired here in the 000's, I do get out and about a great deal, and travel extensively throughout Thailand, including cities such as Bangkok (which I know very well), Chiang Mai, Isan and elsewhere. In the past year alone I have clocked up 36,000 kms in my car. I speak passable Thai and have many friends , both Thai and farang who have lived here as long, if not longer than I, and not a single one has any material difference in opinion to the one I have expressed in this thread.

I am afraid that you must indeed lead a closeted life, and it is very surprising to me that after so many years in this country that you still look at Thailand with rose tinted glasses and and believe that sometime soon it will become a law abiding, civilized democracy. Maybe one day, but not in our life time.

As for smoking bans, and trading hours, entertainment zones - well I'm afraid it's all a matter of how much the establishments kickback to the BIB. There are very few places that enforce the smoking ban, most places, in and out of the central area stay open well after official hours, and almost anywhere in Pattaya you can find literally hundreds of places open all night. New places are opening almost daily in residential areas (both farang pubs and Thai karaokes), underage kids are employed all over the place, and pedophilia is rampant in Pattaya, and is aided and abetted by the BIB. (The occasional farangs who are sometimes arrested and are put in jail have been practicing their pernicious trade for years, sometimes decades, in full knowledge of the police, and only fall foul of the law when their money runs out.)

Yes, some places fall foul of the BIB and the owners and managers are arrested and sometimes the places are closed down. In almost every instance, this action is the result of either failure by the owners to pay the price demanded by the BIB, or due to a business conflict where someone has paid off the police to to their dirty work. In most cases, large sums of money change hands, and the place is back in business. Sometimes, especially when farangs are involved, a dead body is found a few days after the raid, and the official verdict is always suicide.

When you walk down Walking Street and you are confronted by blond Caucasian women who are touting for you to come into their bar which is full of European prostitutes, (and one is even dancing on a balcony, in full view of the tourists - and police), then you know that enforcement of any law in this city is just plain farce. A farang is thrown in jail for trying to earn a few bob, working without a work permit, yet there are dozens of European prostitutes plying their trade in full view of the police. Every month or so, some of them are arrested, and within hours, they are back in business.

I could go on and on and on.....

But as the legendary Trink used to say, "nuff said"...

I do not see much point in continuing this discussion. It seems that you are the perverbiable pesimist whilst I on the other hand am an optimist. You say things can change but then only for the worst. If we were all like you then nothing would change and we would all be living in the dark ages. I feel sorry for you. You have a very bleak outlook on life. I reckon the only thing we will ever agree on is "to disagree." But as always you are entitled to your opinion and to voice it. Just as I am.

[popshirt]

Bangkok Pattaya Hospital should be ashamed!

People should register their dis satisfaction by not using Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for their medical care.

Ok, you've convinced me. I've been undecided about whether to invest beaucoup baht on 3 dental implants at either the Dental Clinic at BPH or at Phayathai in Sri Racha (drive a little, save a lot). I will go to Phayathai for the work!

[KKK]

Baht rules in Patts even at the expense of Health & well being I fear.

Pattaya is not the only place where money rules. "Money makes the world go round" not such a bad thing in itself but it shouldn't override good morals and decency to your fellow man. However greed seems to "rock" and it's a "dog eat dog" environment we live in. I'm nearly 60 so probably won't have to live through it much longer. It's the good kids who will have to live with it for 70 or more years that I feel sorry for. I only hope that they can make a difference and bring about some change.

[KKK]

Bangkok Pattaya Hospital should be ashamed!

People should register their dis satisfaction by not using Bangkok Pattaya Hospital for their medical care.

Ok, you've convinced me. I've been undecided about whether to invest beaucoup baht on 3 dental implants at either the Dental Clinic at BPH or at Phayathai in Sri Racha (drive a little, save a lot). I will go to Phayathai for the work!

Good decission. As an alternative there are many small private dental clinics around town that people have recommended to me. One I used some years ago was on South Pattaya road opposite the newish (big) Friendship supermarket. Gave a fixed price and did a good job. Look out for the big tooth sign. Sorry but I can't remember its name.