30+30 Year Lease After The Divorce?

[wishfulthinking]

I read on article (by a law firm) that if you've leased land from your spouse on this 30+30 year scene, you get divorced and the lease becomes the common property of the marriage. Then many articles (on this site too) state it's a safe option to make this 30+30?

The lands is on your spouses name, you get divorced, you're left with nothing.

The land is leased to you (from your spouse), you divorce, and alas, it's common... ?

What's so safe about it then?

[Krub]

I read on article (by a law firm) that if you've leased land from your spouse on this 30+30 year scene, you get divorced and the lease becomes the common property of the marriage. Then many articles (on this site too) state it's a safe option to make this 30+30?

The lands is on your spouses name, you get divorced, you're left with nothing.

The land is leased to you (from your spouse), you divorce, and alas, it's common... ?

What's so safe about it then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As far as I know (I have also a 30+30 lease) the only 'sure' thing is :

1. As a non-Thai, you can never own or inherit land in Thailand.

2. Only the first 30 years lease is registerred on the land deed (chanode) and gives you the right to use the land land the construction on it as you please for the first 30 years.

The second 30 years period is not officialy registerred on the chanode and therefore needs the good will of the owner to re-sign the registration for a new 30 years period.

It is obvious that if you are divorced (not in good terms anymore) there is a very slim chance that the second 30 years lease will get registerred.

If you live on leased land in a village, you might not want to stay there after the divorce especially with a new partner.....

Never invest more than you are willing to walk away from

It should be easier to keep the property if your kids are involved

This is only my understanding which I got from my own lawyer when I did the deal earlier this year.

[wishfulthinking]

Thanks!

You mentioned nothing about the lease (=right to use the land for the next 30 years and possible another 30) being shared in case of divorce...

But are definitely right about the relations with the neighbours after the divorce and so on... many should take that into consideration as well.

[Krub]

Thanks!

You mentioned nothing about the lease (=right to use the land for the next 30 years and possible another 30) being shared in case of divorce...

But are definitely right about the relations with the neighbours after the divorce and so on... many should take that into consideration as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well I am not sure what you mean by sharing in case of divorce.

If you are leasing from your wife and you divorce she has no right to live in your leased land, or so I would imagine

Just my 2 baht

[Khun Jean]

I researched this a lot too. My understanding is that it is not possible to have a 30 year lease from your wife. It is an exceptions. I read it somewhere in a snippet from a lawbook. Sorry i don't have the reference at the moment.

The 30 year option is a gamble as it is not registered and the owner has no obligation to extend it.

Sumitrman is the man you need.

[Sophon]

As far as I know (I have also a 30+30 lease) the only 'sure' thing is :

1. As a non-Thai, you can never own or inherit land in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that you actually can inherit land as a non-Thai. However you won't be able to keep the land, which will subsequently have to be sold. I have no idea about the process, but I would guess the land would be sold by the administrators of the estate before the estate is divided among the heirs.

Sophon

[wishfulthinking]

What do you think about his article?

http://www.searesland.com/faq/ownership_thai_spouse.htm

[Sumitr Man]

As I understand it, the right to lease land could be considered Sin Somros (martial property). Likewise, the obligation to pay the rent would be considered Sin Somros.

More worrying, however, is Section 1469 of the Civil and Commerical Code, which states that:

Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during the marriage, or within one year from the day of the dissolution of the marriagel provided that the rights of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

I was recently discussing this section of the CCC with a law professor and he was of the opinion that this section could be used to nullify a lease agreement entered into between husband and wife (the example he used wasn't with a house but with a car, whereby the farang husband agrees to lease a car to his wife for a period and then they divorce, the husband could nullify the car lease agreement).

So, it would appear that the best steps are:

1- lease property from your gf before you marry; and/or

2 - don't register the marriage at the Amphur, as the marriage is not legal in Thailand until you do (Thailand doesn't acknowledge the concept of "common law" wife); and/or

3 - get married overseas, but don't register in Thailand.

SM

[roiet]

As far as I know (I have also a 30+30 lease) the only 'sure' thing is :

1. As a non-Thai, you can never own or inherit land in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that you actually can inherit land as a non-Thai. However you won't be able to keep the land, which will subsequently have to be sold. I have no idea about the process, but I would guess the land would be sold by the administrators of the estate before the estate is divided among the heirs.

Sophon

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A Non Thais wife died and he had to sell her 30 rai land within 1 year (This according Thai law). He found no buyer and wanted to split the land for easier selling. This was not permitted and he had to handover the land to his 10 year old daughter (the only heir). If there is no heir the land will be transfered to the next inherritors in the family chain.

True story.

So 30 years leasing would be the only safeguard.

[Sumitr Man]

^true; but had it been 1 Rai of land or less, he (as a foreigner) could have inherited (subject to Ministerial approval) under the provisions of the Land Code - and what you said was that a foreigner cannot inherit land not cannot if...

Not exactly the same things.

SM

[Sumitr Man]

also, there is no such thing as "safeguard' when the words land, ownership, property, house are used within the same day as the keyword "Thailand".

And the sooner people come to realize that, the better off they'll be - alternatively, feel free to PM details of your safguard (and please - no offers of a 9 month maturing "safeguard" please).

[wishfulthinking]

How about a Will?

Understood from the articles on this website, that in Thailand the executor of the Will and the beneficiary of the Will can be the same person?

Could it be written in the will that this farang spouse will administer the property and in case he manages to sell it, will be able to keep the money?

Doesn't help in the case of divorce, but maybe would make it easier to handle the family etc. in case your spouse passes away before you and you have that piece of land in her/his name, and no children?

[Sumitr Man]

Wishful:

Not too sure what you mean. Under the Land Code a foreigner can be the direct beneficiary of up to 1 Rai of land. However, this is subject to Ministerial approval. If you fail to get the minister's approval you have no less than 180 days to arrange a sale - preferably to a friendly party.

So, ideally you would want the person to name you as beneficiary under a will. The only problem with that is you cannot compell them to name you.

SM

[wishfulthinking]

Sorry for beeing unclear, hardly could understand myself what I had crippled

Thanks for advice.

the Will is going to be written tomorrow