German/thai Student Dies Of Electrocution In Phuket

[damian5000]

I own a resort on Samui with 25 rooms with these kind of showers. I lived on site and have been shocked (electrically) maybe 100 times over the past 5 years. Very discomforting and unpleaseant but not life threatening. Also have a 30 million baht house with all european appliances. I got shocked there once through 3 phase. Almost died. I was a shaking mess for 2 days after. And this was meant to be a westernised house with a proper hot water system. The electric systems in place in this country are dangerous to the point of stupidity. It is a disgrace. Having an earth as a required minimum standard would elimanate pointless casualties that we have witnessed recently. Get with the program Thailand

Maybe like start with getting your own <deleted>' Samui Resort in order eh? I'd think after the 58th time or so you might of actually done something about it instead of continuing to subject yourself and your guests to discomforting and unpleasant shocks.

[Huey]

Damm how many people gotta die from thous things before they do something about it? One of the things I do is sell equipment to the US military in Iraq and Afghanistan, a couple years back they had a soldier die from miss-wired electrical wiring in the shower of a locally made trailer. Now you can't do electrical work for the US military in Iraq or Afghan unless you have a US NEC certified electrician. And it's got to be costing them Hundreds of millions in the long run. but it's saving lives.

[IvanDobsky]

I strongly suggest you get an inspection done asap.

An RCD installed at the system origin could save your life but you are still likely to get minor shocks from un-earthed equipment. These are never enjoyable but they will certainly not be fatal. As stated before, grounded socket outlets have been a requirement for years.

OMG, cutting corners has cost someone's life again, when will people learn? (not just Thai people, look at China or Mexico)

Good advice about getting an inspection done but where can I find a reputable electrician who can look at the set-up in mine and my friends' houses to see if they are ok or not? Do I have to import my qualified electrician friend from the UK to do it?

A language barrier is one thing, a barrier preventing a proper job being done is something else.

RIP, sincere condolences to the family

[balo]

At least I would expect farang owners like the previous poster from Samui to make sure the electrical system is of the highest standard.

All the farangs living in LOS should do their best to check the house / condo for any problems.

If you care about the life to you and your family .

[Seismic]

Pretty much everyone has replied to show how bad this problem is, I have it too, how about someone (anyone) posts links to qualified guys who can do a proper job ??, I live in Bang Phli and have yet to find an electrician who understands when I say V=IXR khow jai mai ??. Surely there are qualified electricians in the Bangkok Metropolis?, or am I mistaken.

[faranginexile]

Europe, and especially America, have litigation for breaking a bloody fingernail, or other such trivia.

It's about time court cases, irrespective of the time taken to judgement, were more prevalent here to try and reduce incidents like these two recent electrocutions.

Hopefully, the Israeli boy's family have enough wealth (with no regard for the time it will take) to sue the hotel owner, even just in order to get an outcome.

Hopefully, this German / Thai boy's family can find a builder or landlord to sue, in order to prove a point.

There are laws on electrical installation, as a previous poster has pointed, so let them be used for the future benefit of all, and so that these 2 lads haven't died in vain.

If this had happened in the U.S., I promise that a lawsuit would be in the works. While the builder or landlord could possibly be found liable for a faulty installation, the apparent age of the water heater indicates that in all likelihood it was the heating unit itself that malfunctioned (since we can probably assume that the shower had been used for a long time without incident). The question then becomes how long these things are expected to last, and that's where the battle with the manufacturer would be waged.

The report also says the incident happened in their home, so assuming that the German dad was renting, one could also argue that the landlord had a duty to maintain the property safely. The landlord would therefore also be named as a defendant, at least until a proper investigation could be conducted into his maintenance of the property, his obligations under the lease, etc..

As for the builder, it would depend on how long ago he built the property, whether he installed the heater, and whether he was judgment-proof. If the home were located in a Hi-So moo-bahn such as that described by a previous poster, the builder/developer could well be named, too (especially if they failed to ground the unit, as is commonly the case). On the other hand, as we all know here, it's entirely possible that the builder of the property cannot be located.

People love to bash lawyers - until they need one. But it's precisely the threat of being spanked with a hefty judgment that keeps otherwise negligent parties vigilant, and which sees senseless tragedies like this occurring far less frequently in societies with a functioning civil legal system (except in the case of well-connected military contractors like KBR, whose shoddy construction electrocutes soldiers in Iraq. But that's another story entirely).

Thoughts and prayers to Anurak's family.

[Svante]

these type of showers normally have a built in RCBO, but this would not operate if a earth is not connected in this installation. my bet is there wasn't.

this sad death could have been so easily avoided. baaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Any earth fault detector would have tripped the circuit as soon as the difference between the two feed wires exceed 0.025A (25mA) and no earth wire is required for those to operate. Houses built during the last 7-8 years are required to have 3-prong outlets, not 2 as before. The power system here in Thailand is one "live" and one "neutral". Between one "hole" and ground you have full 220V and the other is ground. The new building code requires that grounded outlets are used and the safety ground must be separated from the "neutral", meaning 3 wires have to be pulled to the main fuse box and a separate ground wire with a ground rod is connected to the safety ground.

I expanded my house with another couple of rooms and I already had one feed to the old house (about 30 years old) but at that time grounded outlets were not required. To feed the new house through the same meter as the old was not allowed as the new house had to have grounded outlets according to law. I ended up with with 2 separate meters and 2 distribution boards, as that was considerably cheaper than to rewire the old house with grounded outlets.

I am fully aware that all houses built now have 3 prong outlets, but quite often the third wire is never installed in order to save on wire/copper. The contractor will charge for it, but it is not installed. It is simply a question of cheating. MEA (here in Bkk) is doing an inspection and approves the installation before it is connected permanently to the grid. Here is where "irregularities" can and will occur.

In order to "please" the inspector, quite often the safety ground is bonded to the neutral in the socket, so a simple measurement in the socket will appears as if the ground is connected.

Whoever owns a house or an apartment, DO install an earth fault breaker! It is a 2-3000 baht expense that will save lives! It can be fitted in a 2, as well as 3 prong system and will not prevent you from getting a nasty "bite" from the fridge, but it will prevent you from getting a fatal chock.

[ding]

So sad about the young fellow, and my sympathies to his family.

Not sure how you'd ground an upper floor condo. You need a driven electrode, like a 3/4" rigid pipe at least 6' long or a 5/8" ground rod driven into the dirt (earth). Then you need like #6 AWG wire - I suppose smaller if not too long a distance up and small lectrical supply. But you can't bond to plumbing pipes as they're not metalic -all plastic. Then you need to follow the existing wire with a bare ground conducter of the same size, cablew tie to the 220V romex type stuff, to each outlet. And each outlet needs to be a grounding type receptacle.

If you can SEE that a copper or galvanized pipe goes into the dirt, then bond to that with a grounding pipe clamp.

Where water is present or near, we use a GFCI, ground fault circuit interrupter. It trips VERY fast and at VERY low amperage of fault. These come as receptacles or breakers. They detect current leaks but we have neutrals (groundED conductors) and earth grounds (groundING conductors) here - for 120V use. 240V is for heat and equipment generally. But the Hot water pipe is bonded to the cold water pipe at the water heater with the same size wire as the main bond for the electrical service.

*I have never seen one that doesn't trip at detection to ground. Hence the name, Ground Fault Ckt Interrupter. Even the 240V versions use ground as a fault reference.

I suspect the insulation between the live parts inside the unit was cheap. Recklessly cheap. Americans whine about tort lawyers, but that's the ONLY thing that gets codes improved here. And the ABSOLUTE ONLY thing that gets manufacturers to spend a few pennies more to make products safer.

Looks like it'd be about $900 USD if I were to do one, since you have to run a ground all the way down to the dirt (likely concrete drilling involved).

Edited December 30, 2009 by ding

[thatguy]

I've heard that having more than one ground in a system can cause problems due to different earth potentials.

My electric guy insisted on a dedicated ground rod at the shower unit, which I thought was a good idea.

There is also a dedicated ground at an outbuilding, recently rewired (all 3wire in the house)

Comments? Crossy maybe?

[learningcurveasia]

Having lived here 10 years, I can say that this place is a joke.safety? No safety as regards work done by the average Thai Jo. Life is cheap. end of story.here no-one really gives a shit, nothing will change.Had work done 3 days ago, complete <deleted>, had to do again myself, and paid for the privilege.We can bitch but nothing will change, cowboys at everything.Sorry but true.

with the best intentios but....sod all knowledge, and no learning curve.

[nonghoidave]

Europe, and especially America, have litigation for breaking a bloody fingernail, or other such trivia.

It's about time court cases, irrespective of the time taken to judgement, were more prevalent here to try and reduce incidents like these two recent electrocutions.

Hopefully, the Israeli boy's family have enough wealth (with no regard for the time it will take) to sue the hotel owner, even just in order to get an outcome.

Hopefully, this German / Thai boy's family can find a builder or landlord to sue, in order to prove a point.

There are laws on electrical installation, as a previous poster has pointed, so let them be used for the future benefit of all, and so that these 2 lads haven't died in vain.

Was there an update or follow up that stated for certain it was the hotel's fault? (excuse the pun) I didn't know from the story if it was a powerline too close that "just happened to come loose for no reason" and fell into the pool, or if it was a power cord, like from a CD player that got drunkenly pushed into pool. I mean...how often to powerlines "just fall" for no reason?

And even if it did happen that way: good luck trying to win a case against a Thai proprietor by any farang.....or getting awarded more than 10,000 baht if you did. Or trying to collect a judgement after that.

I'd be leaning more towards thinking it is a tragedy whenever youth dies too young, and look to remedy potential hazards before they strike again.

Maybe the Israeli family could set up a charity in their son's name to fund inspections of Thai resorts Israelis frequent, so others won't lose loved ones, instead of looking to "sue somebody, anybody."

[marios]

The presence of earth wire is mandatory in most countries. One,however, might need an knowledgeable elecrician to install correctly and effectively an earthing arrangement. For those who already have or thinking of having a house, the only solution is solar water heaters. In a tropical country like Thailand, piping hot water is guaranteed throughout the year. I know this for a fact because I have one installed in my residence here in Cyprus. In fact more than 95% of residences,houses or apartments in Cyprus get their hot water from the sun. Many british expats who have been to Cyprus may verify that. Half an hour of good sunshine is sufficient to warm up the water to more than 60 degrees. In summer it can reach 80 deg.

Of course these water heaters have a back up electric element and the system is of course grounded. One however can live without the electric element and still enjoy hot water for most of the time.

This does not address the issue of electic safety at home but the most common causes of electrocution at home are water heater related.

[Jing Joe]

Sad.

For probably similar reasons I too was nearly an electrocution statistic when checking my wife's fridge in Bkk.

It has stopped freezing but was running.

My background told me only touch anything suspect with the back of the hand so it wont grab and hold you there.

The hot copper pipe I did touch was also electrically "hot". Being a newcomer it was news to me that the fridge like most appliances in L.O.S only have two pins, and no earth.

I borrowed a multimeter and discovered only 35 ohms to earth from the active lead to chassis, no earth wire on the appliance, or on the wall socket.

The compressor had overheated and the insulation had failed and by rights should have passed the supply volts to earth and maybe blown a house fuse.

Goodness knows about the "integrity" of an earth wire if one is ever used in the house wiring.

I was nearly killed again three days later when young refrigeration mechanics were replacing the compressor, discovered the capillary tube blocked with oil and had joined a bottle of high pressure refrig gas to blow it out.

This didn't work so they tried the oxygen bottle next and the fridge blew up like a BOMB, nearly killing us all this time.

Twelve months later my left ear was still sore but glad I wasn't in front of the freezer door which saw all the aluminium evaporation fins either vapourise or explode into shrapnel on to the opposite wall some 6 metres away. The vapourised bits solidified again like alfoil on the remains of the freezer walls.

The flame and noise was unbelievable. Every tube disintegrated and the fridge bulged outwards.

Always have the earthing setup checked and never mix oxygen with oil or grease.

Sad for the shower victim and tragically it wont be the last.

[thaiedward]

these type of showers normally have a built in RCBO, but this would not operate if a earth is not connected in this installation. my bet is there wasn't.

this sad death could have been so easily avoided. baaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Quick question, cyberay...

What's an RCBO? Is it similar to a GFI (ground-fault-interrupter) or an AFI (arc-fault-interrupter)?

[rockyysdt]

What scares me the most is the young children who are exposed to these dangers.

A shocker l came across was this Thai home handyman operating his power tools via a thin single insulated power lead.

This cable was quite old & there appeared to be nicks all over it.

The handyman had no qualms about the kids playing around his cable & walking bear foot over it.

[tranquillize]

A tragedy, my condolences.

[robert00]

It is very tragic and sad. My thoughts to his family.

Two (2) farangs die of electricution in Phuket in 5 days, farangs bashed by tuk tuk drivers is this place really safe in any aspect.

Mate, Phuket hasn't been safe for donkey years, just go back a few years and count the amount of Foreigners murdered in Phuket, just for greed to either get to the guy's insurance money or jealousy of owning one bar to many. Thais act first and think after. This can also be applied to the safety standards in this country. RIP.

[Scott]

A few months back, I had a problem with the fuse/breaker box in my rented house. I teach a group of engineers in the evening and asked them why it was hot when I touched it. They said it was a big problem and said they would come over right away. I told them to wait until the next day, which they agreed, but they said that was dangerous.

The following day, they called in the morning and came over. The first thing they saw was that the shower water heater wasn't grounded so one went out and bought a grounding rod and wire for it--that wasn't the problem, but they insisted it was really very dangerous. They found the problem, which was a current leak from an AC unit, which was disonnnected.

The point is, there are people who do know and understand, but they are hard to find.

My condolences to the family and friends of the victim. Very sad at such a young age.

[dhrobertson]

I strongly suggest you get an inspection done asap.

An RCD installed at the system origin could save your life but you are still likely to get minor shocks from un-earthed equipment. These are never enjoyable but they will certainly not be fatal. As stated before, grounded socket outlets have been a requirement for years.

OMG, cutting corners has cost someone's life again, when will people learn? (not just Thai people, look at China or Mexico)

Good advice about getting an inspection done but where can I find a reputable electrician who can look at the set-up in mine and my friends' houses to see if they are ok or not? Do I have to import my qualified electrician friend from the UK to do it?

A language barrier is one thing, a barrier preventing a proper job being done is something else.

RIP, sincere condolences to the family

I am a professional engineer of 35 years standing. We ensure compliance with both Thai EIT codes and international standards such as the British IEE BS7671:2008 and IEC 60364. Contact me if we can be of assistance

[dhrobertson]

To re-iterate:

An RCBO (known as an ELCB in Thailand or GFI in Australia) works by continuously monitoring the current in the phase and neutral lines. If these differ by more than a set amount, the breaker trips. No ground is required

These are available for installation at the system origin (mains incoming) or as replacements for standard circuit breakers in the load panel. For protection against shock, 30mA is the maximum rating.

These are required under the Thai EIT code for all water heaters including instant shower heaters.

Just fitting a ground rod is generally inadequate as it is very difficult to get a low enough impedance to the main body of the earth. Standard breakers in Thailand require 10x the rated current to trip quickly. Therefore, to get a 16A breaker to trip quickly we need 160A. At 220V the loop impedance must therefore be no more than 1.4 Ohms. You will never achieve that with a ground rod.

Please contact me directly if you have a specific query or requirement

[howg]

If you are experiencing mild shocks touching appliances, computers, etc. try reversing the polarity of the plug - this will often fix the problem, (though not the real problem of not being properly grounded). All 2 prong plugs should be polarised - that is, one (flat) prong should be wider than the other - even something as simple as a lamp should have a polarity plug, something that we do not do in NA either. If your appliance uses round prongs, then just turn it 180 degrees. I've had mild shocks from everything in my condo, but reversing the polarity has cured this problem - still doesn't mean it's safe, but it's a lot safer and a quick an easy thing to do. Even when changing a light bulb, remember that if the plug is not polarised, the live wire will not necessarily be switched off - 50/50 chance. So always be careful, even when carrying out the simplest of tasks!

[PEP]

Is there ever gonna be an end to these senseless fatalities in the realm.

I will answer my own question with "no I don't think so"

I could add a lot more but then that would be me (done for) wouldn't it

40 killed on 1st day of '7 dangerous New Year holidays'

Forty people were killed in road accidents on Tuesday, the first of the so-called 7 dangerous New Year holidays, the Civil Disaster Prevention and Mitigation Department announced Wednesday.

Anucha Mokkhawes, the department director-general, said a total of 448 road accidents happened on Tuesday and 496 people were injured.

He said most or 41.29 per cent of the accidents were caused by drunk driving.

The government is monitoring seven New Year holidays from Tuesday, hoping to minimise the number of raod accidents when a lot of people travel around the country.

Is this worth a mention or is it less contraversial then TWO Farangs being elecrouted?

[TonyH]

Just had a condo finished and one of the things I insisted on was a water heater out of the way (under the sink area), rather than using those shower type heaters. From this I'll also be very very vigilant when in hotels etc that have this type of heater.

It seems there are too many electrocutions in Thailand that are so easily avoidable. I hope things start to change for the better soon, this developing country still requires a significant amount of HSE development and actions need to be proactive rather than reactive.

Such a shame and so avoidable. RIP.

Just having the shower unit out of sight will not prevent shock when the heater goes faulty and does not have a proper grounding connection the ground should be connected to the chassis of the unit and an earth link to the internal boiler unit is important.

When a fault occurs electricity from the "live" supply will travel from the shower unit through the plastic water pipe (water conducts electricity) through the victims heart and body to ground. (bathroom floor)

Everyone should ensure all their appliances are wired correctly and grounded.

[Samuian]

Typical Thai disregard for anything resembling safety. Nobody has any foresight in this country when it comes to public or worker safety.

R.I.P - for the victim and my condolences to his mourning relatives....!

So sad, but never the less...

your and anybody's expressed rage is understandable, coming from a society where (almost) everything can be taken for granted and the common man be sued for fa_ting in public, where parking in the wrong spot for a couple of minutes cost's as much as a nice dinner for 2, there are laws and restrictions, regulations for the minutest things!

Now I wish not only you, but EVERYONE else, to try to understand why these things, as tragic as they are, are prone to happen over and over again, UNLESS there is something done about it from "higher places" - till then - EACH and EVERYONE is solely responsible for himself, as in crossing a road without traffic lights or pedestrian crossing, or in the jungle on his/her very own!

Here, like in most other non-industrialized countries, where the "common builder, worker" whoever installed this system, usually comes from a very poor educational background, what training have they got and what general understanding of electric circuitry and safety in general they have?!

Most of the time they, themselves are surrounded by very, very dangerous installations, living in a bamboo hut, with poisonous insects and animals, exposed to forces of nature, like mudslides, floods, chills....

There are other people in responsible positions - but then - this tragic accident has happened, any witch hunt won;t bring back this young man - very, very tragic!

But please, BEFORE starting the big blame issue - THINK!

--------------------------------

On the contrary who is taken repsonsible for NOT wearing a helmet, the BiB's not enforcing the law?

The brewer, distiller for drink & drivin'?

The motor bike producer for building such a fast engine....for the many traffic deaths?

Sorry, but trying to appeal to common sense - be very, very cautious out there - don't take ANYTHING for granted,

double check just to be on the safe side and be sure!

Just a thought or two - livin' in this country for 2 decades and survived it without any harm - ecxept that what happend

to me due through my very own negligence - it's always easy to blame someone else first, but showing responsibility is something else!

In the hope that someone may take this to heart......

Edited December 31, 2009 by Samuian

[Tomasf]

I have lived in Phuket now for over 5 years and have had nothing but problems with the wiring installed in my house, from the electric cooker, washing machine, lighting. Lighting power connected to electric sockets, so that anything needing 'power' eg rice cooker, electric kettle etc would not work, Lighting and power connected to same circuit in control box. on inspection there was no earth connected although the correct outlets were connected. There is no way I would have an electric shower connected. All my hot water is provided via a solar panel. My condolences to the family for this sad avoidable tragedy.

[farangpattaya]

I bought a water heater once at Lotus.

Lotus's policy was it that the water heater must be delivered and installed by a technician.

Within the hour the water heater including technician were there and was installed WITH a safety switch.

[steelepulse]

RIP Mars. So sad this happened to such a good kid and family that I know.

[Credo]

Deepest sympathies to the family and friends for this tragic loss of life.

[CrossBones]

I'm getting tired of failing electricity in our land. And I don't really trust the work being done either. And some days ago the water heater for the shower stopped 'heating' (but running it does). Any good electrician, be it Farang or Thai, around that anyone can verify for? PM with number would be appreciated.

Getting electric chocks from my computers chassis is getting tiresome...

Take the plug out of the wall, turn it around (upside down) and plug it in again...

Surprise no more shocks from your computer case

[atyclb]

All socket outlets and fixed current using equipment require a ground connection in Thailand. This has been the case for years.

Ground and neutral must be separate within buildings. However a combined ground/neutral cable may be used to feed the building. Of course neutral is bonded to ground at the transformer and often at additional points between the transformer and installation.

As stated above, all water heaters require ELCB/RCBO protection.

In Thailand (with local ambient temperatures) 35mm NYY (Cu, double sheathed, PVC 70C) running underground in ducts are required as a minimum for 100A.

Ground conductor should be no less than 50% size of feeders.

How can one determine if the electrical system in a condo is "earthed" If it isn't can metal water plumbing be used as "earth" as it would not be easy to run a wire to the ground floor.