Korn Awarded Finance Minister Of The Year

[samran]

1) I think Korn would turn out to be a Labour man if he went the UK and ran for parliament there...just personal opinion.

2) Steveromagnino is a dodgy amway salesman

[animatic]

Actually if it all went pear shaped for Korn in Thailand (exile after a Red Thaksin uprising) and he pursued his right for British citizenship, I'm quite sure - if so inclined - he could secure the nomination and win a Tory rural constituency.They would be lucky to have him.

No need to pursue. He was born in the UK prior to 1983. Assuming his parents weren't diplomats, he's automatically a British Citizen by vitue of birth on UK soil, like Abhisit. I tend to think he'd join the Labour party though.

As an aside, I do wish steveromagnino would post more often - and I often wonder where he goes between posts? Astute, largely agenda-free insights. Rather reminds me of another Steve (Hawking) - writer of more books never read by those who bought them than just about anyone else. Off-topic paean over; everyone else - please do continue with your agenda.

The guy is a dodgy amway salesman in his spare time.

I must admit though, he is better looking than that Hawking bloke...but only just!

1. What do you mean, join the labour party? WHO? (in bold)

2. I'm puzzled by your last comment. WHO are you talking about, being a dodgy salesman ?

I'm confused.

LaoPo

LP

1 ) He clearly means Korn would lean Labor,

2 ) And Steve M is either a good friend of Samran, and he's taking the piss.

Or they can't stand each other, and he's taking the piss.

-----------------

Ah, he beat me too it.

Not sure of the Tory's could grab Korn but BNP ain't got a chance.

Edited January 11, 2010 by sbk

[LaoPo]

^^^^

They piss a lot, don't they ?

Samran: I thought you were married to a Thai Lady? I must be wrong; I know about your descent though)

LaoPo

[samran]

The guy is a dodgy amway salesman in his spare time.

I must admit though, he is better looking than that Hawking bloke...but only just!

1. What do you mean, join the labour party? WHO? (in bold)

2. I'm puzzled by your last comment. WHO are you talking about, being a dodgy salesman ?

I'm confused.

LaoPo

LP

1 ) He clearly means Korn would lean Labor,

2 ) And Steve M is either a good friend of Samran, and he's taking the piss.

Or they can't stand each other, and he's taking the piss.

-----------------

Ah, he beat me too it.

Not sure of the Tory's could grab Korn but BNP ain't got a chance.

The Labour Party in the UK is spelt with a 'u', which is pretty standard for British English I guess. Australia, which more or less adheres to British English (at least spelling-wise) has the Australian Labor Party, without the 'u'. Go Figure.

I do know Steve, and I am taking the piss. Doesn't mean we aren't mates. 5555

Edited January 11, 2010 by sbk

[LaoPo]

The Labour Party in the UK is spelt with a 'u', which is pretty standard for British English I guess. Australia, which more or less adheres to British English (at least spelling-wise) has the Australian Labor Party, without the 'u'. Go Figure.

About: ou and o spelling:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_and_...ces#-our.2C_-or

Sometimes confusing, also depending which spell checker is used UK or US one. In my options for spelling there are many English-language spell checkers...too many.

LaoPo

[geriatrickid]

Winning the award is easy? Out of 187 countries (which assumes hte same number of ministers), presiding in a country with severe domestic turmoil, surrounded by neighbors who are a "Whos who" of dirtbags - yup, sounds easy enough. I'm sure you would have won too, Dusty, if given the chance.

Don't be so quick to dismiss his view. Why are people so gullible? What's Banker magazine know that others do not? Global Finance Minister of the Year. Ha. Right. Please, get a grip on reality. Why does an award from this low circulation magazine (audited circulation of less than 29,000) mean so much to you people? It's a cheap way for the magazine to attract attention to itself. Please tell me how this magazine knows this and no one else does? How do you reconcile this great award with competing awards from far other magazines with significantly larger circulations? For example;

At a presentation in Istanbul, Turkey, following his participation in the annual meetings of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and World Bank, the Honourable Jim Flaherty was presented Euromoney magazine's Finance Minister of the Year award for 2009. In announcing the award, Euromoney noted that Canada's strong policy response to the global economic crisis has contributed to its heightened reputation on the global stage.

Clive Horwood the editor of Euromoney makes a valid point that some of you people falling backwards over yourselves to praise Minister Korn Chatikavanij 's should pay attention to;

It is inevitable that, in picking a politician for any award, a large section of any population will disagree with it. However, we are happy to stand by our decision. It was interesting to note, in attending the IMF meetings in Istanbul this week, the positive reaction of many bankers, ministers, governors and other senior officials to the award announcement, and contrast that with the comments of Flaherty's opponents back home. Readers in Canada should realise that Euromoney is a global publication, looking at the impact of ministers in the context of global financial markets. By that yardstick, Flaherty's performance – and Canada's – has been excellent. They might also consider the esteem in which Flaherty is held by many of the senior executives in the leading Canadian banks, which have been among the biggest winners of the crisis.

Euromoney Institutional Investor's chairman, Padraic Fallon, at the award reception in Istanbul: "Our winner has earned a reputation for maintaining a sound fiscal policy. His country's economy has performed remarkably well, especially considering that it is so reliant on its next-door neighbour the US. Equally, his government has given the chance to his country's banks to thrive. And thrive they have. Not one bank in Canada has failed. The World Bank says that Canada has safest financial system of any nation. That's why it played a key role in the G8's discussions this time last year. It's no wonder that countries such as China are keen to learn about Canada's regulatory system.

In light of the above, how can anyone have the temerity to claim Minister Korn Chatikavanij is the top FM let alone even in the in the Pacific region. (And for you geographically challenged folks, Canada is a Pacific nation.) Why don't you look at the reasons why banker magazine picked Mr. Korn. And btw, did any of you rushing to plant big wet kisses on Minister Korn Chatikavanij 's posterior even read the article announcing the award? I did. Here's why the magazine gave him an award;

- His ministry has succeeded in containing the budget deficit at a forecast 4.6% for 2009 (Wow that's impressive. A deficit forecast that can't be verified until the real numbers are in next year. Meanwhile GDP shrunk by about 3.5%.)

- During the past year he has unveiled far-reaching plans to reduce exports as a share of GDP by boosting domestic consumption and increasing funding possibilities for businesses by allowing more foreign ownership of banks, as well as undertaking major domestic capital market reform.

- Mr Chatikavanij has become a leading spokesperson for south-east Asia as whole, promoting openness and modernisation among the major south-east Asian economies. In a strategic move to capitalise upon the region's growing economic power, Mr Chatikavanij has led efforts to forge greater co-operation among Asian nations, in particular the economies of the Association of South-east Asian Nations (ASEAN).

The the ASEAN electronic trading link-up discussed in February 2009 isn't even up and running is it? The fellow hasn't really done anything except have a political position that meets the approval of a dinky little magazine that wants to see a regional global trade entity has he? Ok, so tell me how this man's fiscal policy makes him worthy of finance minister of the year? Is Thailand's banking system any safer than before? Is its market any more open than before? Is its regulatory system any better than before? I don't think anyone can really give a definitive positive answer to these questions because you need transperency for that and the last time I looked, Thailand's ministry of finance was not a leader in transparency and public access to information.

What is Minister Korn Chatikavanij's position on oversight and regulatory transparency I am willing to wager that not one of you people singing his praises can answer that question. I think all you people running to show what good little loyalists you are are didn't bother to think about this. Are you that desperate to be able to show that the Abhisit regime is so much better than the Thaksin administration that was overthrown by a military coup? I am not criticizing the gentleman, nor am I saying he is a bad minister of finance, just that there are certainly other finance ministers more deserving of any award because they have demonstrated remarkable results in troubling times.

[jayboy]

I think Korn would turn out to be a Labour man if he went the UK and ran for parliament there...just personal opinion.

Care to explain why? I would have thought he is a natural Tory.

[animatic]

Color Colour / Labor Labour.

American spelling vs UK spelling. Habits are normal.

Some highly educated journals are very target specific,

like to Finance ministers, their staffs and the reporters and editors who comment on them.

The Developement Digest was for a very low circulation target,

but the price was quite high because the target market was quite small.

But it still sold out every issue, because it disseminated information, analysis and commentary

in a timely fashion to those who wanted and needed it.

Low circulation is not a denigrating benchmark of quality writing or reporting.

American Entomologist is not exactly high circulation, but who can argue it is low quality,

and that their choice of Entomologist Of The Year would lack validity?

And one comment on Korn's performance vs Canadas Jim Flaherty's.

PPP completely ignored the coming economic storm for most of that year,

and in particular all that fall until December.

Thus the mess Kuhn Korn inherited was many times worse than the job Flaherty had to do.

Flaherty watched and acted as it turned bad, while Korn could only wait and then start to act,

with many, many things left undone and many, many months behind the theoretically applied game plan.

So really just an apples and oranges comparison.

Edited January 11, 2010 by animatic

[steveromagnino]

Incidentally, since many of the giveaway type policies were in place in one way or another at various times prior to TRT, perhaps it is best to describe Thaksin's influence being the concept of actually politicising and promoting the policies heavily and making universal promises as well as acting with an urgency pre asset declaration not seen before (or since, TRT from 2004 onwards resembled the same mode of thinking as every other slow motion political deathtrap seen the world over); something that only a marketing savvy business person would get - this is perhaps the most important legacy of the TRT years - the thinking that a politician should now invest at least time in PR regarding what they do, as well as doing it.

Steve,

As you mention that many of Thaksin's supposed giveaway schemes were in place before, it is an issue I would like you to clarify.

For those of us around at the time, the 1mn baht per village and 30 baht schemes were perceived as quite momentous at the time. I myself had no idea at all before that point that there were in reality any specific schemes that delivered a significant amount of social protection to the rural poor. I was out in the rural areas trying to improve crop yields.

I am not wanting to be a pillock about this issue, because we have sat and run around in circles for 3 years now, poo-pooing the importance of Thaksin's promises. I acknowledge that you might be able to throw some light on these issues. I don't expect that it is contained in an excel sheet somewhere buried in the finance ministry. I always pay attention to your post because you always add something new, balanced and lucid to the discussion, so please feel free to expand. If you can make sense of the Thail social entitlement system you are a smarter man than all of us.

Regards,

TAH

I certainly don't profess to understand the concept of social welfare and social entitlement here in Thailand; in fact even at both ends of the spectrum I suspect the view points are not far apart; as Jayboy points out, my attempts to differentiate the popularist measures now in place (in a time of international crisis where we see USA and other countries also doing pump priming type stuff) compared to the TRT years is a little tenuous; how I see it is that during the TRT years, the policies were more of a means to an end (securing a mandate to run the business side of the economy such as building an airport, with fewer checks and balances) but no doubt the poor who were beneficiaries of 30b healthcare etc might choose to disagree, as the end result for them is the same - universal healthcare is universal healthcare.

OK, so onto a few of the many policies I feel were hardly new or unique to TRT - I would describe 30b as a rejig of an existing idea massively promoted and the scope expanded; 1m village fund is usually not exactly considered a poster boy for TRT, but it is either a handout the same as all handouts, OR it was a genuinely new idea attempting to create microcredit for the rural poor.

1. 30b healthcare

There was a healthcare scheme introduced by a technocrat healthcare expert Dr Arthit Urairat that was superceded by 30b which itself (I was slightly involved with one element of the management of the 30b scheme briefly). 30b was so quickly and speedily implemented that there was effectively no due diligence; no real planning and no systems in place to manage a monolithe of a system that alledgedly favoured specific suppliers (some connected to the govt it is said); that pushed many doctors towards the private healthcare system (surprisingly simultaneously there was a huge buy up of hospitals by TRT members and nominees) and was basically not sustainable BUT that also did suddenly and very quickly (thanks to marketing it very strongly also) allow, in theory, every single Thai to enjoy quality healthcare for a price that could be afforded. However when you have a system where friends of mine who don't even carry Thai passports (but were born in THailand) and make sizeable cash as TV stars were getting 30b healthcare and using it to get aspirin etc, you know that the system needs a few tweaks...in addition I think everyone is aware that the operations were rarely 30b; they were 30b plus a gift to the surgeon plus plus plus....or you went to the end of the queue.. subsequent govts have rejigged it to make it work, of sorts, and I have actually taken people to govt hospitals for treatment; this is one of the initiatives begun by the Dems, continued by TRT, military govt, PPP and now the Dems again that seems to have genuinely improved the lot of the rural poor.

There are some who say however, to make it actually work as per now is copying, but to take an existing scheme that was relatively poorly understood, repackage it so more ppl were eligible then roll it out with a lot of PR is not copying. I am unsure.

2. Debt forgiveness for farmers was the 2nd platform of TRT when they were elected. This is the standard way to reward farmers for votes; years old and basically is partly the reason why farmers are broke - the mentality of the social welfare state where the farmers should be given hand outs from time to time is far from new; TRT moved it upwards with a variety of schemes but they are all effectively similar; crop pledging, debt forgiveness, a few free cows, free rubber plants etc - they are a gift to a govt contractor (in many cases party member companies, sometimes party backers such as CP, paid for by muggins tax payers).

3. 1m village fund is where I am not sure whether it was just another handout, or a genuine, if flawed, attempt to introduce microcredit. I sort of put the 1m baht village fund in here although I DO suspect this was an attempt, albeit a typically rushed and ill thought out attempt, to create a system of Yunus style microcredit; this is one of the only policies that I've had decent debate with diehard red shirt technocrat supporter types (the ones who don't go to rallies etc as much, but are very much sure that the govt policies need to change and in many ways support a bunch of the early 2000s TRT style thinking - the kind of people I tend to be able to respectively disagree on the means, but often agree with the issues, just not the solutions) and on this one, we tend to agree that the business approach of we got a problem people aren't using SMS, ok create a promotion all you can use 200b SMS per month, type quick fire thinking failed; the NESDB studies tend to be inconclusive but the issue of microcredit requires a lender to really know and understand what they are lending on, and for the borrower to know and understand the concepts of credit; I do not believe this occured, and instead on one level was simply a cash injection to the rural community (which it is reasonably well documented lead to a big increase in electronics and motorcycle sales etc among other things) which is nothing new and really almost on par with buying votes; on another level it was certainly the potential start of a burgeoning microcredit industry which the social contract between govt and the rural poor almost requires; that the rural poor have access to credit.

I would note we saw ideas like this for the first 365 days of the TRT reign some of which were quite novel and perhaps the policies that were giving the technocrat genuinely kit mai tum mai types the interest to be part of a new way. Almost all of them are long gone. Some weren't even around by 2004/2005. And microcredit was well dead by then, in favour of building and skimming from airports and stuff like that. I presume we won't talk of schemes to buy liverpool etc which while novel and new, were also incredibly dumb and stupid.

Once no new ideas (about the time of the asset declaration) we were back to the same typical policies all of which are repeats and certainly not new - specifically with regards to the policies that might be regarded as handouts:

- subsidised fuels (deisel in particular, cooking gas also)

- low cost housing, free cows, free rubber trees, etc

- reduced property taxes; BOI privileges

- policies to favour provinces that voted one way, and policies to punish others

- attempts to get the state to build stuff (MRT, BTS) then sell out and give monopoly rights to private companies

For the rubber trees, as an example, my (on my Thai side) family were the recipient of a significant number of rubber trees which are supposed to help rural Thailand develop. As a significant land owner, the trees were given primarily as a way to generate votes, since the party canvassed and suggested that were the family to deliver the votes of the workers and people who rent land from the family, then there would be far more than this forthcoming. This is hardly improving much for the rural poor - nice trees though.

Korn is definitely not a labour type - he is too well dressed for that ;-)

As for quality reading, if circulation is the be all and end all, am I to surmise that I would be better to stop reading Journal of Marketing Research and replace it with The Sun? Perhaps the secret to good market research really is simply who has the biggest tits.

TRtits. A new slogan.

As a final point, some might think the true genius of TRT was to carefully craft the PR messages. It is not unexpected to hear in the provinces 'Thaksin gave me a new kidney for 30b' or 'Thaksin gave me these trees' (if you ever actually meet a poor person with one of the free cows/trees/etc - most of the Ua Arthorn schemes were DOA). Many honestly think that it was Thaksin spending HIS own money to give them the things they have.

That is a genuinely new way to think. I doubt anyone thought tightwads like Chavalit or Banharn were spending their own cash.

[steveromagnino]

Low circulation is not a denigrating benchmark of quality writing or reporting.

American Entomologist is not exactly high circulation, but who can argue it is low quality,

and that their choice of Entomologist Of The Year would lack validity?

Of course it is low quality, everyone knows that if a journal actually granted Entomologist of the year, then we would have to look to Journal of Economic Entomology, not some second rate American claptrap.*

* ok, so you are an entomologist and in fact know that JES is also American. It just sounds better to slag off other people and countries to feel better about myself.**

** Henry was an entomologist at the local university, who hoped to be able to one day submit for JES. HOwever, he could never find the right material to research, and was almost on the verge of committing suicide. Until one day he saw some small parasites in his garden. He did not recognise them.

They appeared to belong to the order Anapleura. That was strange. Anapleura infected mammals not plants.

He examined them more closely. Small. Wingless. Definitely a species of Pediculosis, but one he had never seen before. He gathered up several specimens, and rushed to his lab, full of new vigor.He examined the insects and detail and rapidly wrote an article describing this new species of insect.

Well, I'm sure you know the result. The article was immediately accepted by the American Journal of Entomology, but he never did make the JES. His job was saved and he received his most coveted tenure.And he received a new major grant to study this new species.

You could say he had discovered a new lice on leaf.

[samran]

I think Korn would turn out to be a Labour man if he went the UK and ran for parliament there...just personal opinion.

Care to explain why? I would have thought he is a natural Tory.

My experience of most Democrats is that while tending to be more patrician in background than the rest of us, they do tend to 'care' for the poor. Sure, most of the time their efforts are misguided, not well thought out, but their hearts are generally in the right place. They'd be the equivalent of a latte lefty in the west.

Korn I suspect would have similar sympathies for those less well off, but would be more practical in how he went about achieving these goals for them.

I suspect he views the best way of helping the poor is to stimulate sustainable economic development in the same way as a Clinton/Blair/Keating would advocate it where strong economics comes with a stong social justice and re-distribution elements. The democrats economic policy direction back in the late 1990's was for more deregulated markets while at the same time advocating for proper regulation and oversight bodies, combined with building a proper comprehensive social safety net.

As Steve has already pointed out, many social policies such as health care were rooted in Democrat initiatives....these tend to come from policy makers who come from a slightly left of centre background. It is this democrat party that Korn would have considered joining when he was mulling over going into politics, and this is why I'd argue he'd be more at home on a Labour type party than say the Conservatives, which tend to have an extreme (economic) Genghis Khan right wing.

[hammered]

Incidentally, since many of the giveaway type policies were in place in one way or another at various times prior to TRT, perhaps it is best to describe Thaksin's influence being the concept of actually politicising and promoting the policies heavily and making universal promises as well as acting with an urgency pre asset declaration not seen before (or since, TRT from 2004 onwards resembled the same mode of thinking as every other slow motion political deathtrap seen the world over); something that only a marketing savvy business person would get - this is perhaps the most important legacy of the TRT years - the thinking that a politician should now invest at least time in PR regarding what they do, as well as doing it.

Steve,

As you mention that many of Thaksin's supposed giveaway schemes were in place before, it is an issue I would like you to clarify.

For those of us around at the time, the 1mn baht per village and 30 baht schemes were perceived as quite momentous at the time. I myself had no idea at all before that point that there were in reality any specific schemes that delivered a significant amount of social protection to the rural poor. I was out in the rural areas trying to improve crop yields.

I am not wanting to be a pillock about this issue, because we have sat and run around in circles for 3 years now, poo-pooing the importance of Thaksin's promises. I acknowledge that you might be able to throw some light on these issues. I don't expect that it is contained in an excel sheet somewhere buried in the finance ministry. I always pay attention to your post because you always add something new, balanced and lucid to the discussion, so please feel free to expand. If you can make sense of the Thail social entitlement system you are a smarter man than all of us.

Regards,

TAH

I certainly don't profess to understand the concept of social welfare and social entitlement here in Thailand; in fact even at both ends of the spectrum I suspect the view points are not far apart; as Jayboy points out, my attempts to differentiate the popularist measures now in place (in a time of international crisis where we see USA and other countries also doing pump priming type stuff) compared to the TRT years is a little tenuous; how I see it is that during the TRT years, the policies were more of a means to an end (securing a mandate to run the business side of the economy such as building an airport, with fewer checks and balances) but no doubt the poor who were beneficiaries of 30b healthcare etc might choose to disagree, as the end result for them is the same - universal healthcare is universal healthcare.

OK, so onto a few of the many policies I feel were hardly new or unique to TRT - I would describe 30b as a rejig of an existing idea massively promoted and the scope expanded; 1m village fund is usually not exactly considered a poster boy for TRT, but it is either a handout the same as all handouts, OR it was a genuinely new idea attempting to create microcredit for the rural poor.

1. 30b healthcare

There was a healthcare scheme introduced by a technocrat healthcare expert Dr Arthit Urairat that was superceded by 30b which itself (I was slightly involved with one element of the management of the 30b scheme briefly). 30b was so quickly and speedily implemented that there was effectively no due diligence; no real planning and no systems in place to manage a monolithe of a system that alledgedly favoured specific suppliers (some connected to the govt it is said); that pushed many doctors towards the private healthcare system (surprisingly simultaneously there was a huge buy up of hospitals by TRT members and nominees) and was basically not sustainable BUT that also did suddenly and very quickly (thanks to marketing it very strongly also) allow, in theory, every single Thai to enjoy quality healthcare for a price that could be afforded. However when you have a system where friends of mine who don't even carry Thai passports (but were born in THailand) and make sizeable cash as TV stars were getting 30b healthcare and using it to get aspirin etc, you know that the system needs a few tweaks...in addition I think everyone is aware that the operations were rarely 30b; they were 30b plus a gift to the surgeon plus plus plus....or you went to the end of the queue.. subsequent govts have rejigged it to make it work, of sorts, and I have actually taken people to govt hospitals for treatment; this is one of the initiatives begun by the Dems, continued by TRT, military govt, PPP and now the Dems again that seems to have genuinely improved the lot of the rural poor.

There are some who say however, to make it actually work as per now is copying, but to take an existing scheme that was relatively poorly understood, repackage it so more ppl were eligible then roll it out with a lot of PR is not copying. I am unsure.

2. Debt forgiveness for farmers was the 2nd platform of TRT when they were elected. This is the standard way to reward farmers for votes; years old and basically is partly the reason why farmers are broke - the mentality of the social welfare state where the farmers should be given hand outs from time to time is far from new; TRT moved it upwards with a variety of schemes but they are all effectively similar; crop pledging, debt forgiveness, a few free cows, free rubber plants etc - they are a gift to a govt contractor (in many cases party member companies, sometimes party backers such as CP, paid for by muggins tax payers).

3. 1m village fund is where I am not sure whether it was just another handout, or a genuine, if flawed, attempt to introduce microcredit. I sort of put the 1m baht village fund in here although I DO suspect this was an attempt, albeit a typically rushed and ill thought out attempt, to create a system of Yunus style microcredit; this is one of the only policies that I've had decent debate with diehard red shirt technocrat supporter types (the ones who don't go to rallies etc as much, but are very much sure that the govt policies need to change and in many ways support a bunch of the early 2000s TRT style thinking - the kind of people I tend to be able to respectively disagree on the means, but often agree with the issues, just not the solutions) and on this one, we tend to agree that the business approach of we got a problem people aren't using SMS, ok create a promotion all you can use 200b SMS per month, type quick fire thinking failed; the NESDB studies tend to be inconclusive but the issue of microcredit requires a lender to really know and understand what they are lending on, and for the borrower to know and understand the concepts of credit; I do not believe this occured, and instead on one level was simply a cash injection to the rural community (which it is reasonably well documented lead to a big increase in electronics and motorcycle sales etc among other things) which is nothing new and really almost on par with buying votes; on another level it was certainly the potential start of a burgeoning microcredit industry which the social contract between govt and the rural poor almost requires; that the rural poor have access to credit.

I would note we saw ideas like this for the first 365 days of the TRT reign some of which were quite novel and perhaps the policies that were giving the technocrat genuinely kit mai tum mai types the interest to be part of a new way. Almost all of them are long gone. Some weren't even around by 2004/2005. And microcredit was well dead by then, in favour of building and skimming from airports and stuff like that. I presume we won't talk of schemes to buy liverpool etc which while novel and new, were also incredibly dumb and stupid.

Once no new ideas (about the time of the asset declaration) we were back to the same typical policies all of which are repeats and certainly not new - specifically with regards to the policies that might be regarded as handouts:

- subsidised fuels (deisel in particular, cooking gas also)

- low cost housing, free cows, free rubber trees, etc

- reduced property taxes; BOI privileges

- policies to favour provinces that voted one way, and policies to punish others

- attempts to get the state to build stuff (MRT, BTS) then sell out and give monopoly rights to private companies

For the rubber trees, as an example, my (on my Thai side) family were the recipient of a significant number of rubber trees which are supposed to help rural Thailand develop. As a significant land owner, the trees were given primarily as a way to generate votes, since the party canvassed and suggested that were the family to deliver the votes of the workers and people who rent land from the family, then there would be far more than this forthcoming. This is hardly improving much for the rural poor - nice trees though.

Korn is definitely not a labour type - he is too well dressed for that ;-)

As for quality reading, if circulation is the be all and end all, am I to surmise that I would be better to stop reading Journal of Marketing Research and replace it with The Sun? Perhaps the secret to good market research really is simply who has the biggest tits.

TRtits. A new slogan.

As a final point, some might think the true genius of TRT was to carefully craft the PR messages. It is not unexpected to hear in the provinces 'Thaksin gave me a new kidney for 30b' or 'Thaksin gave me these trees' (if you ever actually meet a poor person with one of the free cows/trees/etc - most of the Ua Arthorn schemes were DOA). Many honestly think that it was Thaksin spending HIS own money to give them the things they have.

That is a genuinely new way to think. I doubt anyone thought tightwads like Chavalit or Banharn were spending their own cash.

Nice summary. Recommended reading.

Thaksin undoubedly introduced the slickest marleting and PR to Thai politcs and benfited form it massively. Sound bite mantras and slogans were effectively used. Who beat the mafia? Who won the drug war? etc Although the answer was always Thaksin and not TRT or anyone else which is interesting and Somkid took little public credit for basically coming up with a lot of the stuff. There was also one village one.... One cow.... Etc all simple sound bite stuff well well marketed. It was brilliantly done if a little detached form reality but as Rove and Cheney say as others read/study/analyse history we create our own. Thaksin was of that ilk.

The one million baht one village was from my experience the big vote puller for the intial electoral success the likes of Chalerm at the time said would never happen. By the second one the marketing had done the trick whatever the reality was and that can be debated to death. Meanwhile at that point the Dems had chosen an old style but even more ineffective than usual leader with no handle on modern politics.

My take is that Korn and probably Abhisit and Jurin are modern thinking polticians and there arenmt many in Thailand with a few banned like Somkid and Thaksin and few like Surin and Supachai opting out of the horrendous melee of Thai poltics for other arenas.

[steveromagnino]

Thaksin undoubedly introduced the slickest marleting and PR to Thai politcs and benfited form it massively. Sound bite mantras and slogans were effectively used. Who beat the mafia? Who won the drug war? etc Although the answer was always Thaksin and not TRT or anyone else which is interesting and Somkid took little public credit for basically coming up with a lot of the stuff. There was also one village one.... One cow.... Etc all simple sound bite stuff well well marketed.

I would add OTOP (one tambon one product) was effectively a rejig of the royal initiated projects, but rolled out on a massive scale, to the point that it undid some of the good done previously; the idea that every tambon would actually have a decent product that didn't compete or cannabalise from others was a bit of an oversight; also some of best ideas tended to be skimmed and passed directly to the private sector (with the relevant ministers and politicians being a convenient middle man) while the more average stuff tended to be the OTOP stuff marketed courtesy of the taxpayer (and resulting in year on year growth sub 5% for the most part, a huge time waster and rather damaging for those villages that had already created their own niches, as other villages sometimes tended to just copy the ideas rather than doing something genuinely worthwhile).

If you spend time talking to the people who have created genuine improvement for the poor, such as the volunteers who have dedicated 10+ years full time up north, one of the points they usually emphasize is the need for governments to abandon the idea of get rich quick/fast fix type schemes - fixing and improving things takes TIME.

The problem is that Thai politics and opinion polls tend to favour the macho swagger of a leader that will say I will fix that straight away, I'll do this, we're friends, I'll have a chat to my friend and sort that out, I'm tougher than those pansy boys types. This approach is partly why I, despite myself, actually on a personal level have enjoyed spending time with a lot of the loveable (or not so loveable) politicians that fit the macho rural godfather or city pseudo businessman monopolist models - they are in person quite persuasive and really do give the impression of being senior, in control, holding power and delivering quick results. The thuggish ones no one likes, well mostly no one. I am sure their family like them. Maybe.

Friendly to everyone types: Chavalit (the avuncular Big Jiew is well known as everyone's favourite uncle - because that's what avuncular means)

Reputation of being quick to act: Thaksin, Banharn, Chatichai

Alledgedly tough as nails types mostly with an acid tongue: Chalerm, Sanoh, Samak

Educated elite too good for their frigging own good types: Surin, Supachai, Korn, Purachai, Somkid (maybe) - i.e. harder to scrub up to make them popular

The rest seat fillers, suck ups, dinosaurs, twits and generally stupid - most of them

If you aren't in one of the above first 3 groups, the more educated look for things like substance, ideas and trackrecord is a basic backup. Group 4 characteristics not just in Thailand are almost considered a bad thing - after all in the last 10 years the world over, to be one of the educated elite means you aren't a man/woman of the people, and therefore, to use a technical term, cr@p. This is like the Fox Channel approach to politics. The villainisation of the elite is a subject discussed at length by some very smart people, including the guy that created family guy so it must be true. More logically, which company or organisation would you rather have some uneducated person running things than a person from the best schools? We've tried the buffoon man of the people approach, and that got us Banharn. Awesome.

One could argue Thaksin has these elite qualities (even if you didn't like him) in that he DID come from a fairly up there family with access to a world education (well an American education anyhow at an ok school, not exactly Oxford, hel_l, not even LSE, but still, better than Scunthorpe Community College) married into a powerhouse elite family also, has the business credentials - however he also has some aspect of the first 3 qualities as well which ponsy private schoolies tend to have groomed out of them; mostly the quite thinker types like say Anand and dare I say it, Abhisit, tend to come across as not manly enough to do a yardglass, and let's face it, for many, the true test of how good a person is to do any job should be based on something like whether they are willing to do 'a yardie' on their 21st. One guesses that in the hallowed halls of the english elite schools, such working class buffoonery would not be encouraged; rather the art of 'fagging' and other Tom Brown's School Days type stuff cups of tea are the drink du jour.

That attitude and mindset - tough, quick to act, connected - works really well for a maitre d (you, know, the guy at the front) at a restuarant, when he says, you can go in, I'll sort you out the best table, they remember you from the last time etc. Works well from a distance in politics. Works considerably less well in front of a knowledgeable audience when the swagger fades, and all that is left is a posturing twit. That's why I always stand up straight. My mum taught me good posture will make up for a lack of ability in every other area. Incidentally, I've watched Oz and also Sopranos once, so I am an expert on organised crime - tough, quick to act, connected - these are good characteristics to have in the mob also. Which is not far off the world of Thai politics. Gunned down lawyers, sex scandals, jail price risotto (well kao pad) and bottles of extremely expensive french red wine - it's all there.

I must say, as an aside, I have been very disappointed at the response to the journal credentials aspect.

No one is into the entomologist jokes?

Well as punishment.....

Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana.

There you go, you won't get gold like that in Ecological Entomology.

Edited January 11, 2010 by steveromagnino

[jayboy]

Korn I suspect would have similar sympathies for those less well off, but would be more practical in how he went about achieving these goals for them.

I suspect he views the best way of helping the poor is to stimulate sustainable economic development in the same way as a Clinton/Blair/Keating would advocate it where strong economics comes with a stong social justice and re-distribution elements. The democrats economic policy direction back in the late 1990's was for more deregulated markets while at the same time advocating for proper regulation and oversight bodies, combined with building a proper comprehensive social safety net.

I don't really agree.I think that people like Korn believe in policies that result in economic growth and social stability.If you have a discontented population frustrated by the dominance of a narrow political class and an unfair distribution of economic opportunities, then the whole structure becomes insecure and runs the risk of degenerating into Chavez style populism.Basically smart upper middle class people like Korn have a real sense of enlightened self interest.

In the UK Korn would be a Tory of the David Cameron variety.

Afterthought: Don't forget that one tends to place one's political preferences with those one feels comfortable with.In the UK Tony Blair as a charming public schoolboy gave comfort to those middle class waverers who disliked Labour's socialist baggage.He's gone now and the next election will show what happens when the middle ground is lost, and an imbecilic class war is declared on toffs.Korn in every personal sense is a Tory -Winchester, Oxford, golfer, investment banker, well dressed (thanks for that one Steve), well spoken, articulate, charming - all the things that the current Labour mob aren't.Personally I think Clinton and Keating are both Tories at heart by the way.

Edited January 11, 2010 by jayboy

[geriatrickid]

Animatic, you are quite predictable in your knee jerk defense of any thing that might support your obsession with trying to prove the military's overthrow of former PM Thaksin was justified.

Let's now look at your arguments;

1. We are not talking about an advanced reputable academic journal. The magazine that selected the Thai finance minister is part of a media operation with the object of making money through the sales of advertising. It has no standing in the academic world. Your reference to academia is a shameful canard. Euromoney is far more prestigious and more widely read by movers and shakers in the world of banking and finance regulations than Banker magazine. Using your reasoning then sir, it seems that Euromoney and its well regarded financial symposiums trump Banker. However, one should not rely on any one magazine as the source of picking a finance minister of greatness. Unfortunately it seems that in your depseration to seek out validation for the Abhisit regime, that you will accept praise for it no matter how unreliable the source.

2. Your comparison of the two economies and commenting that the Thai minister had a more difficult job than the Canadian minister is unsubstantiated. It can easily be argued that Thailand's agrarian focused economy with a smaller investment in the manufacturing sector was a boon to Thailand in the early stages of the economic crisis. It was not hit as hard as other economies. Canada is one of the largest suppliers of energy and the largest trading partner of the USA. As soon as the USA went into meltdown mode, the Canadian economy should have imploded. It did not because of Flaherty (or more specifically the ministerial staff's) expertise. Unlike other western economies, the Canadian banking system is robust and the most secure in the world. However, I suggest that the Thai economy is in a precarious state because of the juggling that was done to cover for the hits taken as the export market collapsed and foreign investment withdrew. One cannot really measure the extent of the problem in Thailand because of the lack of transparency or at least the kind that is available in other countries such as Singapore, Bulgaria, Canada or Denmark. I find it odd that you have danced around the issue of transparency and international confidence in the regulatory oversight in Thailand. If the Thai economy is stong and going well, then shouldn't there be greater access to this economic miracle so that other less fortunate nations can learn from the wisdom of the Thai minister of finance?

3. I have never met the honourable Thai minister of finance, but have no doubt that he is a decent gentleman. I would go so far to say that the award means nothing to him and that he doesn't have time for such nonsense. However, what has he really accomplished. The magazine that gave him the award used his plans and statements as the basis of the award. Whereas Euromoney used actual hard results to judge the Canadian minister of finance. Again, I ask you on what basis should the minister of finance in Thailand be considered "Finance Minister of the year"? What did he accomplish in real terms? You didn't provide one specific example. Are the banks better regulated? Are they in better shape before the crisis? Is the Thai baht looked to as a safe refuge? I believe that the answer to these 3 questions is a resounding NO. It was the Russian government that designated the Canadian dollar as a necessary asset. The Russian central bank didn't pick the Thai baht did they? I believe they don't purchase Thai baht for security.

Know what Mr. Animatic? Your desperate desire to grasp at anything to show that all things associated with Mr. Thaksin are bad has allowed you to be hoisted by your thong with your posterior to be quite exposed. Perhaps Minister Korn Chatikavanij is far better qualified than the finance minsiters that served under Mr. Thaksin Shinawatra. I'll shock you and say that he probably is. However, he should be judged on his achievements and financial results and not on an obsessive need to find anything to back the view of "Thaksin bad".

[hammered]

I think Korn would turn out to be a Labour man if he went the UK and ran for parliament there...just personal opinion.

Care to explain why? I would have thought he is a natural Tory.

Jayboy you may be experiencing a bit of class bias there! Korn has proposed intorducing inheritance taxes and increasing/introducing (not sure on which) taxes on unused land as well as in one BKK Post piece some time back proposing farmers form cooperatives. Add on a price support scheme for rice. These policies are hardly those of British style Tories. Maybe New Labour or even further to the British left than that. School and wealth dont always identify political leanings and in Thailand no party really has an ideology so an individual who means well, and there ar every very few of them, may choose any vehicle to present thei rposition but for soemone without a poltical base the Dem party is really the only one that is viable for all its faults.

[Davidusaf99]

Animatic is predictable? LOL

[cdnvic]

Let's keep Brit politics out of it and stick to the subject at hand ok?

[Publicus]

Comparing and contrasting the two magazines is interesting and useful, even relevant. Each carries its own weight, gravitas, along with its own specifics in finance as well as its own baggage.

It's good to see something positive come Thailand's way from outside of the country especially. It would appear Korn made some considerable impression on a considerable number of peers and colleagues during the series and sequence of regional and global meetings held during the course of last year. There was the G-20 meeting in the US, Apec in Singapore, Asean in Thailand etc. Korn and Abhisit moving and operating in tandem among those circles apparently impressed not only the Oxbridge crowd but others as well. There's a tendency in awarding such distinctions to a person to also take into account and recognize the person him/her self as well as the job being done in its regional and global context.   

It's something like the reaction from the White House when Pres Obama was announced for the Nobel Peace Prize, that whatever one may think, it's better to have laurels presented to you than to have shoes thrown at you. Well, the second part are my own words   but the White House did complete the point in more diplomatic words.

I've seen and heard nothing but good from abroad in respect to Abhisit and members of his team such as Korn. Even in the instance of Manit, Abhisit has acknowledged the issue and acted on it. Pausing for a moment to consider this award per se, it's a welcome and refreshing moment and a departure from the steady and usual everyday drumbeat of news and events. It offers some perspective, provides an occasion to think and consider a bit during this time of a domestic lull.  

[steveromagnino]

It's something like the reaction from the White House when Pres Obama was announced for the Nobel Peace Prize, that whatever one may think, it's better to have laurels presented to you than to have shoes thrown at you. Well, the second part are my own words   but the White House did complete the point in more diplomatic words.

I think that best sums it up; whether it is a Nobel Peace Prize or the acclaim of one's peers as a finance minister, better to get something nice thrown one's way than some paeces of dog faeces as enjoyed by banned politician Newin Chidchob on, IIRC, the Saensab canal - a gift from above so to speak.

Ironically, in Thai we say

กำขี้ดีกว่ากำตด which is kum kee dee gua kum dtot; basically better to grab something (kee/turtle head/big ol' stinky leroy brown) than nothing (a little smell of last night/s dinner/a big ripper that you could cut your teeth on/dutch oven less the racist slur plus bedsheet).

In this case, I would have to say having steered the country through a number of years prior which had run with effectively no real policy; dealing with political stuff and financial turmoil; you cannot really fault the end result of being able to not only avoid the masterly inactivity of J Mingkwan types before him but having some policy and doing something which must have somewhat worked when you look at some of the performance indicators.

I can see Geriatric Kid's point somewhat, that perhaps someone with more results to show (such as for instance a finance minister in power for the last 10 years with outstanding results to show for it, if there is such a thing) might be more deserving; however I don't think Korn has been exactly on a path trying to secure this award in any way - a nice to earn but really, I suspect Korn has not been actively seeking the award.

As bricktop once said, 'if I throw a dog a bone I don't wanna know if it tastes good or not'. No doubt the publication concerned gives out the prizes and hopes the recipient will continue the good work; can't see it is too much more than that really.

Edited January 11, 2010 by steveromagnino

[geriatrickid]

Again I wish to stress that I am not attacking the minister, because he seems to be trying, but Publicus,

there are gold medals and there are gold medals. I don't think a gold medal in the 50m run at the Special Olympics is comparable to a gold medal at the regular Olympics.

I understand your analogy to the Nobel prize, although this award hardly compares. Unfortunately, the Nobel prize for peace long lost its importance in the past few years as such embarrassments as Kofi Annan, the UN leader that presided over corruption and genocides, the IAEC and Mohamed El baredi, the man that looked the other way as Syria, Iran and North Korea built nuclear weapons and Mr. Arafat a man that was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of thousands of his own were given the prize. So, I dunno if it's that good an idea to mention the Nobel peace prize since we all agree that the Thai finance minister is a decent fellow and not in any way implicated in facilitating genocide or war.

Anyway, I've said my piece and if people agree they agree, and if not, so be it. At the end of the day, he's the minister, not me.

[animatic]

Steve excellent posts as usual.

And yes, I just saw this last line and worth the wait for sure..

What a groaner!

Entomology is not my field, but one of many things I read on.

American Entomologist was just a quick reference to a publication field of low circulation

but reasonably decent vetted subject matter. Certainly the academia dictum of

'Publish Or Die' holds true, and assorted drek does find the internet.

But an example is only that. And if their Entomologist of the Year,

favored the Natuturist vs the Nurturist schools of say Euro-Entomologist,

of just Entomology Magazine, then that is for them to argue out.

In any case each of them can chose a Entomologist of the year, and

with differing criteria and still have a valid choice.

No doubt disagreements in the field will ensue loudly on any choice.

Geriatric, you seem to be showing your age, 'Knee-Jerk' is so retro these days.

Right up there, or out of here, as McCarthyism.

You are right I dislike Thakisn, and many of those around him.

But you are wrong that I blindly slag all of them just for his association with them.

I would love to share a dinner table with Kuhn Devakula AND Kuhn Korn,

I imagine it would be an excellent evening, and if former FM Tej B. were added,

and extremely interesting evening. Even Kuhn Somkid would enliven and enlighten a table.

But the he-man blow hard types would be a utter waste of time;

dinner with Chalerm, Sanoh and Banharn would be a disaster.

Just because I dislike Thaksin, for cause, and was not sad to see him go,

and now think PTP is an utter waste of air, doesn't support your allegation of

"...desperate desire to grasp at anything..." to support the coup.

Even if the main result was Thaksin's removal.

I haven't said the coup was a good thing, only that some of it's effects were good,

and in general things could have been much worse because of it, and that some of

it's side effects were not as bad as some Reddened Minds seem to trumpet on about.

I have also said that if Thaksin remained in office much longer we would could have

as easily ended up in a much worse state than we are in now. His post coup act tends

tends to support those thoughts rather strongly.

Not being in support of blindly rolling the clock back, and reinstalling Thaksin's

TRT 3rd string puppet muppet crew which at this point in time hews mostly to Steve M.'s last list of

"....seat fillers, suck ups, dinosaurs, twits and generally stupid - most of them...."

with a few from the old school dino's of:

"....Allegedly tough as nails types mostly with an acid tongue: Chalerm, Sanoh, Samak.."

under the remote puppet master himself is not the same as being in support of the coup either.

But what's done is done, and can't be undone by winding back some philosophical clock,

and handing power to utterly clueless remnants of a long dead political entity.

Sorry the heady days of TRT and it's abundant PR exercises can NEVER be brought back.

In all effect, it is truly 'History', and time to move on to the next problem of TODAY.

I find this loud obnoxious and typically disingenuous populism that leans strongly away from this group

"Educated elite too good for their frigging own good types: Surin, Supachai, Korn, Purachai, Somkid (maybe) -

i.e. harder to scrub up to make them popular"

is one of the main problems with Thailand's, and America's political spheres.

FoxNews and Thailands biased press have so much in common it's nauseating.

It is a cheap political scam to convince those of simpler mind sets that those with a strong education

are in some way bad as leaders, because they don't sit around and josh over a beer on the general store's porch.

Mental toughness coupled with education and focus, is not as important as good old boy affability...

an idea that gives us George W. Bush as USA "leader" or Samak as PM. 'Tough guy or Man of the People'

Long term thinking can be left to others; if we let them talk, if they agree with us, yada yada yada

Sorry to burst your ideological bubble, but my reasoning for not wanting PTP and Thaksin in control,

and happiness at Korn getting some recognition, have nothing to do with supporting the coup or any coup.

Two completely different issues. And not wanting to roll the constitution back to 1997 and

give Thaksin a free pass, regardless of what he has done or is trying to do, has nothing to do with

blind support for the military brass and their aims, but more to do with support of the Thai people

to get through tough times we are in now, and not let political ideology nor political graft mongering rule the day.

[Publicus]

My post simply stated that regardless of whether, as now has been mentioned, a finance minister has been in office one year or ten years (agreed the latter being a rare if not unfindable beast), it's better for the guy/person to get laurels from even a largely unknown but reasonably respectable organization, in this instance a targeted limited audience professional publication (dealing in the arcane world of finance), than to be appointed financial advisor to the neighboring country that rivals your own country, or to be hopelessly excluded from access to the world's leading democracies.

In other words, whether it's laurels or sacks of shi, er, rice, if the shoe fits wear it.

Congrats on this award, which confers a certain stature to Korn in his I'm certain unassuming everyday work at home and abroad, to his boss and teammate in the international arena Abhisit, but more important and significantly, contrats to a Thai duo and team that has won a certain global respect for Thailand. 

 

[Asa]

How Mr. Korn was chosen by the Bankers? Because he shore up Thai economy using huge loan?

[TAWP]

Mohamed El baredi, the man that looked the other way as Syria, Iran and North Korea built nuclear weapons

Sure, apart from the fact that neither Syria nor Iran is confirmed to have built any nuclear weapons and North Korea had not at the time of his award. Oi-wei...

Edited January 12, 2010 by TAWP

[cdnvic]

We're veering far off subject, lets get back on track shall we?