Why Do They Never Say Goodbye?

[lannaman]

I've lived with Thais for a good number of years, and am often amazed when, after spending a friendly time together they just vanish without a word of farewell.

"Lagorn" is the usual parting greeting, I think this is not used in Northern Thailand too much as I've seldom heard it.

"Chok dee ner", is used to wish good luck, as is said by those remaining behind, that is if one catches them before the departing pickup zooms out of the drive.

The same applies to Goodnight, they just make off to bed without a word. If I see them going and state something like "Lap dee", then they just return a puzzled glance. Sometimes I think they find us to be weird as much as find them. However, I love them for it!

[aussiechick]

lannaman - this used to drive me crazy when I was first here. Especially when you are at the family home and no-one says goodbye to Mum and Dad let alone the rest of the family. I eventually had to give up - cause you are right, they look at you as if you are the crazy one saying goodnight / goodbye to everyone.

[Dave the Dude]

I have often noticed this too but just got used to it over the years.

I does sometimes have advantages when I want to leave quickly

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes. Leave the house, arrive, fall asleep - you name it. Minimal communication. Unasked questions, no answers. Still bothers me.

[Dakhar]

because culturally, thais don't make it beyond their village... so why bother to say "good bye" as if u wont see them for a long while. Like a wart, they will be there come rain or shine laying in the same hammock swatting at the same fly....

[NADTATIDA1]

It is ok for thai to thai this sort of thing ,but when you start doing it with your family and wife they soon start asking questions like where you go,why you not tell me?....really used to get to me also but like everyone else states...you get used to it and sometimes it does have its advantages.

But compared to western culture it is totally rude and disrespectful to say the least but we are not Thais!

[IanForbes]

I seldom say goodbye to that guy or gal waving a gun or knife at me. I just leave as soon as possible. And I try to leave no trace as to where I'm going either.

[bellste]

because culturally, thais don't make it beyond their village... so why bother to say "good bye" as if u wont see them for a long while. Like a wart, they will be there come rain or shine laying in the same hammock swatting at the same fly....

And culturaly, I never go to their village, not even for a vist. Everything north of Bangkok, is for Thai people, and nobody else.

Edited January 9, 2010 by bellste

[Samuian]

is conceived as way to terminal, too ultimate - that's why, if so "lagorn" is used instead!

it is partly frowned upon to make it a big issue, for thais way too meaning full - as #5 one is back anyway - if not it's over, one will come to say "goodbye"!

Personally I find many of these western habits way too sentimental, too binding, attaching phrases!

Ah well... but then!

Basically it doesnt hurt and in my view opens up to communication, to invite and welcome someone ....

But the here is the elaborate wai-story...and we farangs are somehow not included in this part of the social-game, a

after all it is thai social-cultural heritage - why bother?

Those who are close to me, like me etc. always say at least "Hi/Hello!" why give a hoot anyway - bored -go fishing, play pool have a walk - stop thinking too much - will give you a headache!!

[SPQR]

My Thai advisor says that your customary goodbye and goodnight are perceived to be words which excuse you from prayers or from later thoughtfulness for those you depart. To pay respects to mother and father with a goodnight is perceived as a gesture of gratitude and beholding. Thai feeling for this is simple: You convey gratitude with actions, and this will be enough. To say thanks is to cheapen the gift for which you hold gratitude. To repay in turn is more right. To make farewell is uncomfortably close to stating that you have premonition you will not meet again. If you believe you will see each other again tomorrow, it is not necessary to say this. It creates good karma to keep these people in your thoughts and include them in your wishes or prayers while you are away, and to anticipate what good may come from this when you next see them.

I don't know about all of that, but the vibe I get, is Thai people do not feel like they are leaving you if you are close with them. Just leaving the room for whatever is next. They feel connected to each other even when they are not in each others sight. Goodbye serves to break that connectedness, and Thank You is a poor substitute fot the acts of kindness we share every day to express how we feel. That I see, and understand. Do what you will with the rest of the mojo there. Him being a retired monk, I try to mull it over when he looks at me and talks about something. I try.

2satg,

SPQR

[wolf5370]

I was always told "lagorn" was more of a long term goodbye, like when going on holiday etc. Most Thais just wai and say Sawasdee inm my experience. Most Thais I know do say goodbye to me, because I always say it to them perhaps?, or because they are more used to westerners? I don't know, but most do.

[DegenFarang]

haha this always bugs me too. For people so warm and nice and exceedingly polite, it is very odd that they never say goodbye.

[Kitsch22]

I frequently hear "Pik Korn Ner" in the North, meaning "I am going home" - it is certainly far more readily used by khon meuang than "Lakorn".

[purplehaze]

I used lagorn once to say goodbye to my girlfriend now wife when were dating,she told me quite bluntly"only use that word when someone has died".

[RueFang]

This was one of the hardest things for me to get used to when I moved in with my husband's family. Not saying Good Morning and good night just felt so weird and took years to get used to! I still find it amazing now that when my brother-in-law visits from Bangkok after not seeing the folks for months, he'll just get in the car and drive off. I've often come out the front of the house and asked where he is, or where he's going to be told he's going back to Bangkok! The sis-in-law at least gives a wai and a chockdee to the folks!

And the phone conversations... just kind of end with a few hmm, hmm, hang up... the silent minisecond pause signals the end of the conversation! I had to train hubby to actually say goodbye to me at the end of phone conversations before just cutting me off

Short answer from Thai hub is that it's just not Thai culture to say goodbye and you think too much! Typical No deep and meaningful answer I'm afraid!

[yabaaaa]

lannaman - this used to drive me crazy when I was first here. Especially when you are at the family home and no-one says goodbye to Mum and Dad let alone the rest of the family. I eventually had to give up - cause you are right, they look at you as if you are the crazy one saying goodnight / goodbye to everyone.

Yes but then the security guards where i live permanently bombard me with sawatdeeeeeeeeeeeeee I must hear it 100 times a day off them, go to the shop guard says sawatdee come back from the shop 2 minutes later again sawatdee.

[neverdie]

Yes. Leave the house, arrive, fall asleep - you name it. Minimal communication. Unasked questions, no answers. Still bothers me.

I find all of that amusing, however what gets me is nothing is happening one minute and the next minute everyone is piling into the back of a pick-up heading out to a temple, beach or something similar, hundreds of Kilometres away, with someone having come up with the idea only minutes earlier & nothing being organised prior to departure. It still amazes me how that happens & I don't tag along anymore either .

The lack of communication amoungst family members amazes me at times.

Edited January 9, 2010 by neverdie

[neverdie]

lannaman - this used to drive me crazy when I was first here. Especially when you are at the family home and no-one says goodbye to Mum and Dad let alone the rest of the family. I eventually had to give up - cause you are right, they look at you as if you are the crazy one saying goodnight / goodbye to everyone.

Yes but then the security guards where i live permanently bombard me with sawatdeeeeeeeeeeeeee I must hear it 100 times a day off them, go to the shop guard says sawatdee come back from the shop 2 minutes later again sawatdee.

Yes, I amazed in my village how many times the security guards can jump up, click their heals together and salute me in one day.....occassionally I throw them back a 'Benny Hill' style salute, just to confuse them.

[Birdman]

A lot of Farangs, who work here for a while, do that as well. And even so if the others in the office are other farangs only.

[zorro1]

lannaman - this used to drive me crazy when I was first here. Especially when you are at the family home and no-one says goodbye to Mum and Dad let alone the rest of the family. I eventually had to give up - cause you are right, they look at you as if you are the crazy one saying goodnight / goodbye to everyone.

Yes but then the security guards where i live permanently bombard me with sawatdeeeeeeeeeeeeee I must hear it 100 times a day off them, go to the shop guard says sawatdee come back from the shop 2 minutes later again sawatdee.

yes yes ! drives me insaaaane! I now pull out the mobile phone straight out of the lift and pretend Im using it

[apetley]

I always say 'popgun mai'.

I understand it to mean 'see you', 'bye for now'.

Thats what wifey taught me anyway.

[MiG16]

I dont know about other Thais, but as kids we were always taught to 'wai' everyone when we meet them, and when we are about to leave

in the morning when we wake up, we 'wai' all the family members, and we do it again before going to bed

ohhh and when we arrive back from school, the same 'wai'

I visit a friend's place, I walk in and find her Mom to greet her, and before I leave I do the same.

PS. or maybe I just come from my own little Thailand the Thailand I know seems so different to everyone else's experience on here )

[bina]

miggy, )

at first it was difficult for me cause in israel, partings are always always long drawn out affairs even if u will see the person in a week or so...including tears, wailing, promises and other mediterranean displays of emotion. perhaps cause here, we have the feeling that yes, u might never see the person again....

on the other hand, we had a thai friend who recently returned to thailand after 10! yrs here on his moshav working in a greenhouse. the moshav has about 600 ! thai workers . he had a huge party, string tying, drinking, etc party... and that was that. i tried to convince him to come visit us , i would pick him up, his boss could bring him here, whatever, since he is very very close to husband. nope. he called from the airport, once to say he was going now, and called when he arrived in korat... but there were no farewells. israeli guys get all emotional and huggy when they show up after two weeks ! of not seeeing someone male or female.

my husband didnt really say good bye to his parents either. they stood with us waiting for the bus, we were wakened at 5 a.m. to eat something his mom had cooked, for anon to wei all the old cronies drinking lao, and that was that. no other parting. i tried the israeli style by going around to all the people i had contact with, and they indeed thought it was wierd, and anon thought it was a waste of time.

i do believe, that, without getting all 'new age' about it, thais feel that 1. they are literally tied together (hence the string tying ceremony to keep connections with the community, among up coutnry thai anyhow), 2. there is no real word for parting, in thai.. as budhism, as someone pointed out, doesnt condone 'permanance', and also, death and dying are part of life, and maximum, u will see someone chat nee chat naa (this life or next)... even if the people arent religious, the remnants of budhist culture have permeated everything from actions to linguistics like not haveing a real word for goodbye...

my take on it..

btw, i dont see it as rude, thats their way.. hubby has learned not to do the hang up w/o using bye bye bye cause i would sort of stay ont he line, thinking it would be rude if i hung up first

he also gets angry if i thank him btw (your my wife im supposed to look after u u arnet suppoded to thank me...) ; they see us (israelis anyhow) as nutcases as we make a really big fuss about saying goodbye, and get all insulted or feel guilty if we havent gone through the whole routine, even if it means leaving work for a few mintues to say goodbye to someone with a hug/three kisses.

one culture's rude is an other culture's polite and vice versa.

bina

[Moonrakers]

They do it over the phone sometimes as well. I have been known to call back to ask why they hung up on me.

[lannaman]

because culturally, thais don't make it beyond their village... so why bother to say "good bye" as if u wont see them for a long while. Like a wart, they will be there come rain or shine laying in the same hammock swatting at the same fly....

And culturaly, I never go to their village, not even for a vist. Everything north of Bangkok, is for Thai people, and nobody else.

What nonsense you talk! If that's your view then the North of LOS is better off without you.

Here in my opinion we have the real Thailand, and the frendliest most hospitable folk.

[lannaman]

My Thai advisor says that your customary goodbye and goodnight are perceived to be words which excuse you from prayers or from later thoughtfulness for those you depart. To pay respects to mother and father with a goodnight is perceived as a gesture of gratitude and beholding. Thai feeling for this is simple: You convey gratitude with actions, and this will be enough. To say thanks is to cheapen the gift for which you hold gratitude. To repay in turn is more right. To make farewell is uncomfortably close to stating that you have premonition you will not meet again. If you believe you will see each other again tomorrow, it is not necessary to say this. It creates good karma to keep these people in your thoughts and include them in your wishes or prayers while you are away, and to anticipate what good may come from this when you next see them.

I don't know about all of that, but the vibe I get, is Thai people do not feel like they are leaving you if you are close with them. Just leaving the room for whatever is next. They feel connected to each other even when they are not in each others sight. Goodbye serves to break that connectedness, and Thank You is a poor substitute fot the acts of kindness we share every day to express how we feel. That I see, and understand. Do what you will with the rest of the mojo there. Him being a retired monk, I try to mull it over when he looks at me and talks about something. I try.

2satg,

Thank you for this enlightning and thoughtful reply. An excellent 4th post on TV, keep it up.

SPQR

[Birdman]

When we say good bye from her parents, nice, honest and straight people I like, first I strongly hug father in law. Of course everyone around is laughing and also appreciating that gesture. I don't let go for a while.

Then I open my arms widely, so that everyone assume I will hug mother in law in the same way. Lots of laugh and I softly touch her on the shoulders and say sawaddee khap.

[villagefarang]

My wife kind of took to the whole greeting, hugging and saying goodbye thing, especially with western friends and more modern Thai friends from Bangkok. Don't believe she ever got hugs and things from her parents.

Any kids that come over or friends from outside of the village always do a lot of waiing at arriving and leaving. With the older generation it is different.

[canuckamuck]

I haven't experienced the no goodbye thing, at least it isn't normal around my place. In fact I had to point out to a few family members that all that wai'ng in my own house gets a bit tedious. So if they are in my house to just treat like it was theirs, no need to be formal. There are still plenty of hello's and goodbyes and good nights and good mornings.

If guests are leaving and they don't know where I am, they come find me and say goodbye.

[WaiWai]

The explanations from a Buddhist point of view make a lot of sense.

However, I have seen very similar behaviour amongst Chinese with respect to both "thank you"s and farewells. So far as I understand, you don't thank or farewell those close to you because it is normal and expected for them to share what they have with you, and you will of course see them again soon. Thanking or saying goodbye is overly formal and would create an uneasy sense of distance with a close friend or family member. The Chinese do also avoid becoming indebted to anyone; any favour given carries an expectation of repayment in the future.

So -- is this a case of Buddhism lurking behind Chinese thinking and behaviour or something else?

What is the literal meaning of "lagorn". This word has puzzled me quite a bit as I think it sounds somewhat like the (northern) words for "please wait" (?).

Edited January 9, 2010 by WaiWai