Does A Passport Have To Be Lodged For The Full Duration Of A Uk Visa Application Process ?

[torrenova]

If my partner were to make an application for a settlement visa for the UK, I understand that might take some time. During that time, does their passport have to be lodged at the relevant office or can they just photocopy it and then she can go back and they put the visa in it ?

If they want to keep it for weeks on end, how on earth is she supposed to travel ? Can Thais easily get 2 passports ?

Secondly, can someone travel on one visa whilst waiting for an application for another visa for the same country to be approved (or not) ? Simply, could someone obtain a tourist visa for the UK, then apply (without lodging the passport or that passport, as applicable) for a settlement visa, which would be considered whilst they were visiting the UK under the terms of the first tourist visa ?

I am not suggesting that they can just swap their tourist visa for a settlement one in the UK (though that would be logical if approved) but they could return to Thailand and hand in their passport, have the settlement visa entered into their passport and if they wanted, hop on the next plane back to the UK.

I doubt it, as it is logical but it would make things much easier and she could take that dam_n KOL test when under the first visa, getting (in my case due to 4 years relationship outside the UK) ILE when she came back.

[7by7]

As far as I am aware the passport has to remain with the embassy until the application has been decided and asking for the passport back means that the application is withdrawn. This is certainly the case with in UK applications and I can find nothing to indicate applications outside the UK are any different.

I do have a vague recollection of reading a post (which I can't find) about a Cambodian applicant whose passport was returned to her after submitting the application so that she could return to Cambodia whilst awaiting the decision (Cambodian residents have to apply for a UK visa in Bangkok), but she had to return it to the embassy immediately she arrived home and it was then couriered back to her when the decision had been made.

As already discussed with you in a previous thread, there is no reason why she cannot obtain a visit visa, travel to the UK and take the LitUK test and then return to Bangkok to submit her settlement application. Having passed the LitUK test she would then be issued with ILE instead of a 27 months spouse visa (assuming she meets the other requirements).

Alternatively she could submit her settlement application, be granted ILE subject to KOL and once in the UK take the LitUK test and then apply for ILR without waiting the full two years.

An ILR application currently costs £820 by post or £1020 in person; so you would need to decide if the cost of a trip to the UK just to take the LitUK test was worth it.

[mark515]

I asked VFS the same question my e-mail below and there reply:

To: Info on UK Visa in Thailand

Subject: SettlementHI

My Thai girlfriend is currently in the UK on a tourist visit visa.

At the time of the application we asked for a 6 month tourist visit which was granted.

We are now returning to Thailand in November to get married. We are staying 3 weeks. During this time we would like to submit the settlement visa application.

We would like to return to the UK while the settlement visa is being processed. Her tourist visa don't expire until February 2010 when we would return to Thailand and wish to then hand in the Passport for the visa to be stamped.

Is this possible?

___________________________

The Reply:

Dear Sir/Madam,

Greetings for the day!

This is in response to your email dated 28 September 2009.

Please be informed that applicants are not advised to leave the country while the visa application is being processed. It is important to note that without the passport, your application will not be considered.

As for settlement applications, The Embassy will retain the passport until they have reached a decision regarding her application. This could take up to 12 weeks. So please bear this in mind when you are making your travel arrangements. Note: In the case of an emergency or an exceptionally compelling situation, applicants may request for the officer on duty to mark their applications as urgent when applying. However, please remember that this option may only be used when absolutely necessary. All applications will be assessed on their individual merits at the discretion of an Entry Clearance Officer; for that reason, we are unable to guarantee the outcome of the applications.

[torrenova]

It was revisiting my logic for the pre settlement tourist visa which brought about the question I raised in this thread. I know I can have 2 UK passports and travel on one whilst another is off receiving consideration for a visa. Were I travelling to Thailand, I could have one passport off getting a non immigrant visa whilst I flew to Thailand on the other passport but I do not need a visa to enter Thailand. A Thai, needing a visa for any trip to the UK in any case, would not be able to travel on the second passport, were they able to hold 2 passports.

It was also the time taken for the two visas I was considering. A tourist visa should take a week, given previous history. A settlement visa is not so straightforward as we are not married and though we have a child, it would be based on a 4 year relationship outside the UK. I just suspect that that may delay things, though I have no evidence to back that up I admit. As I suspect we would go for a holiday within 6 months, I thought of the tourist visa then settlement one. However, though it would delay things somewhat, it might just be easier all round to go straight for the settlement visa.

Would you mind running through the prices as I don't think I'm looking at the same numbers as you. I see settlement visa prices at £585 but converted into baht as 33,930.

Are you saying that someone who is given ILE still has to pay £820 (any source please) for ILR ? Just what for exactly ?

[bellste]

"Can Thais easily get 2 passports ?"

No, not unless they have double citizenship.

These people can answer all your questions;

http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/

[torrenova]

"Can Thais easily get 2 passports ?"

No, not unless they have double citizenship.

These people can answer all your questions;

http://ukinthailand.fco.gov.uk/en/

I don't think you understand. I am not referring to a Thai and UK passport but rather to a Thai having two valid Thai passports at the same time, as the UK and many other countries allow their citizens to hold. Nothing to do with the UK or double citizenship.

[theoldgit]

Are you saying that someone who is given ILE still has to pay £820 (any source please) for ILR ? Just what for exactly ?

Yes the fee required by the UKBA for Indefinite Leave to Remain is £820 providing the application is submitted by post, if it's submitted in person it's £1020. Just for what exactly? you rightly ask, to cover their costs - absolutely amazing.

http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukresidency/cost/

I presume that you have already read this http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/settleme...plicationtypes/ which talks about settlement in the UK.

Going back to your original question, as has been said by others, the passport will be retained by UK Visas until the application has been processed. I think you would be on dodgy ground if you used two passports as UK Visas require all passports, current and previous, with the application.

[7by7]

Would you mind running through the prices as I don't think I'm looking at the same numbers as you. I see settlement visa prices at £585 but converted into baht as 33,930.

Are you saying that someone who is given ILE still has to pay £820 (any source please) for ILR ? Just what for exactly ?

Apols for the confusion.

The price for the initial settlement visa application in Bangkok is £585, payable in Thai Baht at whatever exchange rate the embassy are using at the time of the application; this changes periodically to reflect exchange rate fluctuations, so you should check the VAC website for the current fee before submitting the application.

If she has satisfied the KOL requirement and is granted ILE then that is all she will pay.

However, if she has not satisfied the KOL and is granted ILE subject to KOL, or doesn't qualify for ILE at all and is given a 2 year settlement visa, then she will have to apply for ILR in the UK when qualified. The cost of that application, at current rates, is £820 by post or £1020 if applying in person. See Cost of applying and Completing application form SET(M)..

What's this fee for? An excellent question.

The cost of processing an ILR application used to be included in the price of the initial visa (or so I was told by the embassy). So when submitting an ILR application one did not pay another fee, which was the case for my wife and step-daughter when they applied for ILR in 2001.

Then this current government saw an easy way to make some money and introduced a whole range of new fees; one of which is for ILR, but the cost of a settlement visa did not go down!

So; what's this exorbitant fee for? A cynical money making ploy introduced under Tony Blair and continued under Gordon Brown. I believe strongly that all visa, LTE, LTR etc. applicants should cover the cost of processing their application, but these fees are way above that.

For political balance, I should say that whilst the Tories vigorously opposed these fees when they were introduced; I doubt very much that they will do anything about them if they win the next election.

[torrenova]

So just to clarify, if she does the tourist visa, gets the KOL test out of the way, she still has to come in on ILE and then pay again for ILR or can she just come in on ILR for the settlement visa fee ? (Bt33,930 currently at Bt58 !).

I am veering towards just doing the settlement thing from the start but there does seem to be a raft of rather large fees for what seems like nothing.

[7by7]

When she applies for settlement at the Bangkok embassy there are three possibilities.

She has satisfied the KOL requirement and qualifies for ILE and so is issued with ILE. Then that's it. ILE and ILR are effectively the same, except the former is issued outside the UK and the latter in.

She satisfies all the requirements for ILE except the KOL. Then she will be issued ILE subject to KOL. Once in the UK she has two years to satisfy the KOL requirement and then apply (and pay for) ILR.

She doesn't satisfy the requirements for ILE. Then she will be issued a 27 month settlement visa. During this period she satisfies the KOL, if she hasn't already done so, and after 24 months in the UK she applies for ILR.

[torrenova]

Forgive me for being pedantic but if she has ILE subject to KOL and then passes KOL, why would she need to go for ILR when had she already passed KOL, then she would get ILE and never have to bother with ILR, if I have read it correctly ?

Or you have ILE subject to KOL, then you pass KOL and then you go out and come back. What are immigration supposed to do then ? You have ILE subject to a KOL which you have passed ? No need for ILR ?

I suppose I am saying that if someone gets ILE subject to KOL then why do they have to go for ILR ? They do not have ILE subject to ILR ?

Are we 100% on this for 4 year relationship outside the UK and getting ILE subject to KOL and then really having to go for ILR because that defies the ability to get ILE and never go for ILR if you are not subject to KOL.

Edited January 11, 2010 by torrenova

[7by7]

Indefinite Leave to Enter is issued outside the UK, Indefinite Leave to Remain within; that is the only real difference. One cannot be given leave to enter the UK if already there, nor can one be given leave to remain if not there already.

ILE subject to KOL does not mean she has indefinite leave, it means that she would have got indefinite leave had she satisfied KOL, but she hasn't. Therefore she can apply for indefinite leave to remain as soon as she has satisfied KOL. As the application will be made in the UK, she will be given ILR rather than ILE. As the government currently impose an annual increase on application fees way above inflation it is obviously a good idea to satisfy the KOL and apply for ILR as soon as possible.

If she has ILE subject to KOL, she can leave the UK and use that to re-enter as often as she likes during the life of the visa, which is two years, even if she has now satisfied KOL. But she will need to apply for, and be granted, ILR to remain in or re-enter the UK once the initial visa has expired.

If the visa expires and she has not yet satisfied KOL then she would need to apply for Further Leave to Remain, which lasts another two years and currently cost £465 by post or £665 in person.

The logical and fair course would, IMHO, be to allow those who would otherwise qualify for ILE to sit the LitUK test at the British embassy where they are applying. But, unfortunately, current regulations do not allow this.

[torrenova]

I take all your points but the logic is not there for this point.

If she gets ILE, subject to KOL, then once KOL is satisfied, her ILE, issued outside the UK, should give up this restriction as it has been satisfied. I do not see why this has to be "converted" to ILR.

Say I am 17 and have a driving license, which stipulates that I cannot drive trucks until I am 18. Once my 18th birthday comes around, the qualification of not being 18 goes away. I do not have to apply for another license because I now comply with the rules. The original condition is satisfied.

I will go and have a look at this and perhaps press for an official answer if I cannot find one online because if ILE and ILR are the same but just that one is issued in the UK and the other outside the UK, then you would be applying for exactly the same thing, albeit with a different code.

Do you actually have a link which shows that ILE subject to KOL (and where, if relevant, ILE is given on the basis of a 4 year relationship outside the UK) must then apply for ILR ?

EDIT IN

Just looking at the http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/partners...amesexpartners/ site, ther is no specific mention of ILE being offered subject to KOL at all in reference to a 4 year relationship.

We may be able to give you permission to live permanently in the UK as soon as you arrive, if:

* you and your partner have been living together for at least four years as if you were married or in a civil partnership;

* you have spent those four years living together outside the UK;

* you are both coming to the UK to settle here together; and

* you have sufficient knowledge of the English language and life in the UK. (You do not need to meet this last requirement if you are aged 65 or over.)

I seem to have latched onto this ILE subject to KOL but I do not see any reference to it - do you know one ? I suspect that is why I first thought of the tourist visa and then ILE after passing KOL.

Edited January 12, 2010 by torrenova

[torrenova]

Update

I have just spoken to the ILR (settlement) applications people in the UK +(0)870 606 7766 and after quite some consultation with my holding on the phone, they came back and said that they did not know and that it was not a scenario which has a specific detailed response which they are aware of. I would need to write to their office and request an official response.

[7by7]

Say I am 17 and have a driving license, which stipulates that I cannot drive trucks until I am 18. Once my 18th birthday comes around, the qualification of not being 18 goes away. I do not have to apply for another license because I now comply with the rules. The original condition is satisfied.

As far as the UK is concerned, reaching the minimum age for a vehicle category would not entitle you to drive that category, except as a provisional licence holder; you would have to pass the relevant driving test to get full entitlement for that category.

Do you actually have a link which shows that ILE subject to KOL (and where, if relevant, ILE is given on the basis of a 4 year relationship outside the UK) must then apply for ILR ?

The one most readily to hand are this one

SET5-15 What immigration conditions apply upon entry to an unmarried / single sex partner?

ILE can be granted in situations where:

• the sponsor has a right of abode/indefinite leave to enter and;
  
• the couple have been living in a relationship akin to marriage for at least 4 years and have been living together outside the United Kingdom during that time and;
  
• the applicant has demonstrated 'knowledge of language and life in the UK' (KOL)
  

Where an applicant has satisfied all of the requirements for ILE, except the KOL requirement, they should be granted 27 months leave to enter. During this time they can, at any point, satisfy the KOL requirement and then apply for indefinite leave to remain in the UK.

(My emphasis)

and Leave to enter endorsement and list of conditions required with each code

Settlement - partner 4 years but need KOL

D

SETTLEMENT TO JOIN/ACC PARTNER(KOL REQ)

1

N

27 months

The UKBA page you quote does not mention ILE subject to KOL, but it does mention that KOL is required for ILE. Remember that these pages deal mainly with applications made within the UK, and give general guidance not full details of every scenario.

I'm not surprised that you were unable to get a satisfactory answer from the helpline. Unfortunately UKBA helplines are notorious for the lack of 'help' they give to any but the simplest of queries. The usual response is either that which you received or that one should apply and find out!

I am not saying that all this is logical or fair, I have already stated my view on that, but it is the current regulations. With respect, we can argue about the logicality of it all we want on an internet forum, but that is not going to change anything. The rules and regulations are laid down by Parliament, and it is only that body that can change them.