International School Vs. Tefl

[stickball]

Hello,

I have read through several pages of the posts here as well as some other sites, but I still have some questions. If someone wouldn't mind I would appreciate some input.

I am 39 years old, graduated with a BA Painting, minor Art Education, Certified in the state of Arizona, 6 years experience teaching middle school and high school. I am hoping to come to Thailand to teach, but need a little advice. Ideally, it would be nice to get a job at an international school and there are a few that I see need art teachers. Does anyone know about the hiring climate and the likelihood of me getting a job there teaching art? (It seems that many of them have a preference for people from the UK.) I have been looking at some job sites and have found a few that I will be applying to.

In addition, I am thinking that I might come there and do a tefl of some variety. I have a few reasons about this. The first is that I would like the experience of teaching something other than art, money is of course another one. Finally, I understand most international school are hiring for August, but I would like to move there next month and can't be without an income for so many months. If it is my intention to try the international school route should I take the tefl or can I (as it seems) work without the tefl and make a decent wage on account of my credentials?

Thanks for your help.

Edited January 10, 2010 by stickball

[stickball]

One thing I forgot to mention...

Is it a good idea to just show up and look for a tefl program when I arrive or should I register for one before I come. I am concerned about money and the visa situation.

[Loaded]

One thing I forgot to mention...

Is it a good idea to just show up and look for a tefl program when I arrive or should I register for one before I come. I am concerned about money and the visa situation.

It's unlikely a TEFL company is going to send you supporting documents for a non-immigrant visa unless you have paid a deposit first. Plus if you apply for a non-immigrant visa in your home country, it's usually possible to obtain a 1-year visa. If you wait until you arrive, you'll need to go to the embassy in Vietiane and you'll only receive 3 months.

You can show up and there will always be a place somewhere on a course. However, the better managed courses have limited course sizes and if you leave it until you arrive, these courses may be full.

[otherstuff1957]

If you are an experienced qualified teacher, you should look for some International School Job Fairs. Overseas hires are generally better compensated than local hires.

[tonititan]

Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that as a certified teacher, you would not even need to worry about a TEFL in order to find work teaching English. I would THINK that an employer would consider your teacher certification to be more valuable than a TEFL certificate.

The other poster is correct - you can usually get a much better package at an international school if you are hired from overseas.

[lost_in_space]

If you are an experienced qualified teacher, you should look for some International School Job Fairs. Overseas hires are generally better compensated than local hires.

Yep. A friend of mine made about half, as a local hire, what the overseas hires made at Regents School.

[Firelily]

Does anyone understand the reason for such a discrepancy? It is not only totally unfair to those who are already here and have local experience, but also makes hardly any sense to me.

I mean, if I was in charge, I would make sure I hire someone who is already here, has been here for a while, to make sure they can deal with the climate, the people, the whole shockingly different thing.... not to mention an interview and demo class. What if a brilliant new hire from overseas is flown in and in two weeks it turns out she hates Thailand and cannot deal with the traffic or something, and wants to get out? I have seen it before... too many times. Many, many new arrivals just don't last the first half a year. So much better and easier to go with a long-term expat teacher.

I just don't get it.

[Phatcharanan]

Does anyone understand the reason for such a discrepancy? It is not only totally unfair to those who are already here and have local experience, but also makes hardly any sense to me.

I mean, if I was in charge, I would make sure I hire someone who is already here, has been here for a while, to make sure they can deal with the climate, the people, the whole shockingly different thing.... not to mention an interview and demo class. What if a brilliant new hire from overseas is flown in and in two weeks it turns out she hates Thailand and cannot deal with the traffic or something, and wants to get out? I have seen it before... too many times. Many, many new arrivals just don't last the first half a year. So much better and easier to go with a long-term expat teacher.

I just don't get it.

Judging by your last 3-4 sentences then you must be working at one of the 'true' Internationals. Quote "I have seen it before... too many times. Many, many new arrivals just don't last the first half a year".

Therefore you would understand why the 'discrepancy'.

I have worked at 3 of the 'true' Internationals for 6 years total and have only ever seen that happen 3, maybe 4 times.

The reason for the salary and benefits packages for ex-pats is clear. They have very recent home-grown curriculum experience. Assuming they are Brits then they will fully understand CPD, AfL, APP, Levelling, 'Every Child Matters' ICT cross-curricular etc etc etc.

They have regular training and workshops for these. It is unlikely that long-term resident teachers here will have that up-to-date knowledge or understand how to deliver those initiatives. (Unless they come from another 'true' International)

Also, the teachers are being asked to give up reasonably good salaries in the UK for a 2 year period. They may still have mortgages and other committments back home to pay for.

The recruitment process for the new academic year is ongoing now. This early recruitment process then allows the school to fully supply as much information as is possible about the new country.

These teachers get an awful lot of support and orientation upon arrival, often great housing, superb benefits and a personal mentor for several weeks.

Hence the LOW drop out.

There are exceptions with 'local hire' though. I have known a few teachers who have finished at one International in Thailand to then move to another here. These people tend to keep the ex-pat packages though.

Finally, ask yourself these questions and without reference to the internet.

"Do you fully understand the 6 areas of learning with reference to the new proposed UK 2011 Primary Curriculum? How often does APP take place? Why has Science been dropped from KS 2 SAT's?

This is what the ex-pats get paid for............and why the fee paying parents expect teachers to be fully up-to-date.

Edited January 17, 2010 by Phatcharanan

[mopenyang]

"Do you fully understand the 6 areas of learning with reference to the new proposed UK 2011 Primary Curriculum? How often does APP take place? Why has Science been dropped from KS 2 SAT's?"

Given the rate at which the UK seems to change its National Curriculum, I've found UK teachers very often to be as confused as non-UK teachers when it comes to keeping up with the latest changes.

It's something that can be learned and surely not a reason to deny a teaching position to an otherwise qualified teacher.

Unfortunately, not all administrators accept this.

Some do, and, in my experience, they are the best bosses and more open-minded about entertaining new and different ideas when it comes to teaching.

[tonititan]

Does anyone understand the reason for such a discrepancy? It is not only totally unfair to those who are already here and have local experience, but also makes hardly any sense to me.

I'm just curious, are there really that many certified teachers who are working here who would be looking for a job at one of these international schools?

[Scott]

Expat packages for teachers are similar to other jobs. If you are hired locally, there are costs they don't pay for. Repatriation fees are often not included for locals as well as some other costs.

The assumption is that you came from a country and will return there. Your costs in that country continue--housing, insurance, etc. If you live here, it's assumed you don't have those or have factor those into your life before settling in a new country.

[Firelily]

Phatcharanan:

Thanks for clarifying, it makes more sense now.

I don't work for an international school. We have had several recent arrivals, recruited locally, who did not last. Those who "survive" the first year stick around for ages.

I cannot answer your questions because I did not earn my teaching degree in that system. I would nevertheless expect expatriate teachers to keep up to date with changes in their home countries if they would like to continue working as professionals. You don't need to be straight off the plane to have the latest info, I would have suspected.

Scott:

Regarding all those continuing costs in the home country - why is it any of the employer's business? It should be up to everyone to sort their lives out on the salary they get, mortgage and all. Equal salary for the same experience, degrees, teaching load etc.

Would I have to fly home to Europe and pretend to be applying for an international school job from abroad to get the better package?

Just wondering. I am not a native speaker so it is out of the question for me anyway.

Sorry, did not mean to hijack the thread. Hoping the information you gave is useful for others.

[Scott]

Firelily: I am not necessarily trying to justify, simply explain. My experience with international schools is limited, but I do have some experience with international recruitment in other areas.

If you want the best and the brightest, then you have to pay. If you want someone who represents a particular country or field then you are asking people to uproot their lives and spend a given period (1-2 years) working for you. Some will do it for less, others won't budge. Some are ready to move and have little left to take care of, others have cars, insurance a home, a family the works. It takes a good incentive to get them to move--they may even be trading two incomes for one.

If you are living here, then nobody is asking you to give up those things. Is it anybody's business, not really.

My experience with local vs. overseas is that the base salary should be pretty similar, but the overall package can be pretty significant. I know overseas recruits who got air-fare including return, housing, etc. that weren't given to the local recruit.

So, get recruited from overseas. Get your contract, then come to Thailand on holiday. Make sure, however, that it isn't going to screw up the visa process and that should be outlined in the contract or the policies of the school.

[otherstuff1957]

I know that some links are allowed and some aren't. Here is a link that a prospective International School employee might find interesting:

Shambles

[KMixon]

"It's unlikely a TEFL company is going to send you supporting documents for a non-immigrant visa unless you have paid a deposit first. Plus if you apply for a non-immigrant visa in your home country, it's usually possible to obtain a 1-year visa. If you wait until you arrive, you'll need to go to the embassy in Vietiane and you'll only receive 3 months.

You can show up and there will always be a place somewhere on a course. However, the better managed courses have limited course sizes and if you leave it until you arrive, these courses may be full."

Is this right?! If I apply for a non-imm B Visa in the U.S. prior to leaving for Thailand, I can obtain a one year Visa? How do you by-pass the one way ticket?

[Phatcharanan]

You are not required to show an outbound ticket if you have any type of Visa such as Tourist, Non Imm 'O' or Non Imm 'B'.