Need Help In Exposing A Scammer.

[^_^]

Hi,

First of all, English is not my native language, therefore, I beg your pardon if you have problem understanding the situation I'm trying to describe.

First of all, let me tell you a little background about this Thai friend of mine; whom is the maybe-Lamb to the slaughter in this story.

He's in his late thirties whom I've known for 9-10yrs and a very superstitious person. He likes to day-dream about making it rich and famous and took great interest and 'wasted' a lot of money into paying some 'teachers' to study 'Feng Shui' and also some kind of Mathematical-Calculation of one's birth date and changing one's name to change the destiny But overall, he isn't a bad person...and always ready to genuinely help someone in need.

Anyway, let's call this friend of mine as 'Ting Tong' (not his real nickname nor real name) for reference.

Ting Tong owns a small business in Chiang Mai and even though it doesn't make him rich, but making enough to save a small amount of money in the bank monthly, for he's very thrifty (but not so thrifty on superstitious stuff).

About one year ago, he starts doing meditation at temples and sometimes would even go to do meditation in temples in other provinces, for a period of 3/5/7 days per trip.

During one of his meditation trip in Nan Province, he met a Thai Woman in her sixties whom was equally as superstitious as Ting Tong and whom also 'coincidentally' lives in Chiang Mai. For further reference in this story, let call this woman "Wilma".

The first time when they met, Wilma told Ting Tong that she had assets worth over XX Billion Baht but she has mortgaged her assets to the bank for 500 Million Baht to invest in the building of the Cargo Terminal in Suvarnabhumi Airport about 10yrs ago. She claims that her share of 500 Million Baht was just a small fraction of the whole investment which cost about 60 Billion Baht (just for the Cargo Terminal alone). She claimed that after opening of the Suvarnabhumi Airport, the Cargo Terminal has been making losses every year and the situation worsened when/after the Oil Price hike and also the PAD besieging the airport a couple years ago.

Wilma claimed that she is in the progress of negotiating with Nakhon Luang Bank to buy up her share of 500 Million Baht but due to the 'enormous' amount of money involved, Nakhon Luang Bank is waiting for a Loan Approval from the World Bank so that they would have enough money to buy out her share. While waiting for the World Bank to approve the loan to Nakhon Luang Bank (Wilma said sometime in March) and so that Wilma may sell her share, Wilma has to pay the interest for the loan to Nakhon Luang Bank or else she would lost all her assets which she claimed is worth many times more than the amount of the loan itself. The interest for the loan amount to the range of a couple hundred thousand baht every month.

Forgot to mention, Wilma claimed that the investment was done through the Treasury of the Royal Family.

Furthermore, Wilma also claimed to possess special power granted by some kind of spirit because of her good deeds.

Since both Ting Tong and Wilma came back to Chiang Mai, they got even closer. Ting Tong was introduced to Wilma's Pinoy husband whom was also in his sixties, and also their adopted Thai Son whom is in his early thirties. For reference in this story, let's call Wilma's husband as 'Vladimir' and their adopted Thai Son as 'Octavianus'. Further reference, let's call the couple and their adopted son together as the 'Addams Family'.

Vladimir claimed to be a Pianist Teacher in BKK and previously was the Piano Teacher for a well known figure in the Royal Family. He also claimed that the Royal Family gave him a well known Condo Unit in a Hi-So area BKK as a gift. He also claims to be the main organizer of the Orchestra whenever there is a special event related to the Royal Family.

Vladimir also claimed to be the 'real' composer behind many famous pianist in Thailand but he kept anonymous for 'personal' reasons.

Vladimir claimed that due to his failing health, he wasn't able to continue teaching piano nor organize Orchestra nor concentrate on composing, therefore, Wilma and Vladimir now has absolutely no income. (I bet he maybe having problem holding his dick while he pees too)

As for Octavianus, I do not have much information on him but as far as I know, he loaf around doing nothing, no work, absolute nothing. One thing I did notice, though claimed to be adopted, his look strongly resembles Vladimir.

From what Ting Tong told me, the couple and their 'adopted' son now lives in a 1,500 THB/mo. apartment unit in Chiang Mai. They do not have ANY money to pay the rent, utility bills, nor daily meals. Therefore, Ting Tong has been supporting them financially for the last 3-4 months.

When I first heard the story above from Ting Tong, I could care less whether Wilma was really previously rich or not, nor whether Vladimir was really a Piano Teacher of a well known figure in the Royal Family or not, all I know was that Ting Tong was taking care of an old couple/family in need and that's good of Ting Tong to do so.

Recently, just found out from Ting Tong's employees that Ting Tong has be taking huge amount of his company's money to give to the Addams Family. to the extent that money that were meant to pay the employee's salary were also taken.

Further found out that Ting Tong has been borrowing from his family and friends from his hometown village. Ting Tong's parents, sister, relatives, employees, whomever tried to warn Ting Tong to be cautious of the Addams family gets a earful; almost aggressive response from Ting Tong.

And...also found out that Ting Tong has moved into the Addams Family little studio apartment unit and have been living together for the last 3-4 months!!! Ting Tong only come back to office only if there's money to collect if he won't be back to work at all!!! And...Ting Tong nowadays calls the couple as his Mom and Dad.

Lucky for Ting Tong that his employees are mostly made up of his own trustful relatives or his business may have went bust by now.

This was when I step in as the responsibility of a friend of 9-10yrs.

Based on the feedback from his parents, sister, relatives, friends, employees, I think the 'Talking' method would definitely not go down well with Ting Tong if I were to use the same approach. Therefore, 4 days ago, I sat Ting Tong down, and calmly tell him to explain to me the whole situation.

The whole story above was what Ting Tong told me.

Furthermore, I asked what he does in that clammy little studio apartment with the Addams family and Ting Tong said that all they did together was chanting...and more chanting...

When I ask Ting Tong why does he have to go to such extreme extent to help the Addams family, he said that's because he will be extremely rich within 6 months time and therefore, his small business in Chiang Mai means nothing much to him anymore compare to the amount of wealth he will acquire soon.

At this point, I was actually a little angry because it was greed which got into his head and his helping the old couple in needs was just a 'disguise' in an 'exchange' for a 'ticket to wealth'.

A part of me wanted him to get scammed for being a hypocrite in the guise of doing good while hoping for something in return.

But...after all...he's only human..and naive.

Therefore, after much thought, my method of making Ting Tong realize the scam was to use whatever information from Ting Tong himself (as per the story above) regarding the Addams Family, and prove that they are not what they claimed to be.

After spending a couple days Googling, I've found the following information which may prove something:

1) the World Bank does not deal with any Banks directly from any countries, as the World Bank only deals in Countries level, therefore, Nakhon Luang bank couldn't possibly have made a loan request from the World Bank as Wilma has claimed.

2) the World Bank only support projects which may benefits the poor or general population, not business investment loans.

3) I've checked the World bank list of active, closed, pending projects of Thailand and none of the projects are related to loans to bank of Thailand.

4) The building of the whole Suvarnabhumi Airport costs 150 Billion Baht, could the Cargo Terminal alone cost as much as nearly half the whole capital of building the Airport at 60 Billion Baht as Wilma claimed?

5) The Investment Capital of 150 Billion Baht in building the Airport was largely provided by the Thai Government and a certain Japan Company/Bank also helped a great portion of it. If Wilma's group of investor could invest as much as 60 Billion Baht, shouldn't this 'Group' has been mentioned?

5) Googling returns nothing about 'Treasury' of the Thai Royal family as claimed by Wilma but only a certain 'Crown Royal Bureau' whom handles all the investments of the Thai Royal Family.

With the information above, I had my second talk with Ting Tong yesterday but Ting Tong still thinks that there must be some explainable misinformation; though I could sense that he's starting (but very very faint) to doubt a little about Addams Family.

I wish to be able to gather more evidence based on the story above and to talk to Ting Tong for the third round; hitting him again while it's still hot since I've planted doubt in his heart and mind; doubt is good...it may at least make Ting Tong to know to be wary.

So, ThaiVisa Members, hope you may help to provide more information or advice on exposing these scammers; based on the story above.

Any info/advice will be appreciated.

Thanks in advanced.

Note to MODs: if mentioning of the Royal Family is inappropriate, please remove just the sentence but please do keep this topic for I have put in a lot of effort typing out this post...and all in good will for a friend whom needs help. Thank you.

Edited January 11, 2010 by ^_^

[dumball]

The only comment I have is "There is one born every minute , problem is they survive " , seems to me you have quite the problem on your hands , keep your pockets stitched up with twine .

[goldfinger]

not Ting Tong but

DING DONG MAAK MAAK

[^_^]

not Ting Tong but

DING DONG MAAK MAAK

That was what his parents, sister, employees, friends said.

Hahahahaha

[WarpSpeed]

Well for a non native speaker you are very well read...Other then that I don't know what to make of it..Sorry......... Oh! And good luck!!

Edited January 11, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Matan]

Right, a national bank is having to go to the World Bank for a £10 million loan

I think the only way you're going to save him is to bash him over the head and drag him into a van, then drive upcountry and keep him in a hut for a few months, each day explaining to him why he is an idiot.

[eTiMaGo]

I cannot help but be reminded of:

Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day

Teach a man to fish and he will eat for the rest of his life

Give a man religion and he will die praying for a fish

I have absolutely nothing against local beliefs, but when people put their reliance on good spirits above their own knowledge/common sense, it's just asking for trouble...

As for your particular situation, it is very very very hard to change the mind of someone in his situation who desperately wants to believe. It's delicate too, because if you push too hard, you'll become the guy who destroys the friendship because you have no faith in your friend, but push too little, and down the hill he goes...

Perhaps it might be a good idea to find some kind of financial adviser who will be able to prove to your friend beyond the shadow of a doubt that the Addams family in question is bad news... And from what I understand, if the Royal Family takes you under their wing in some way, they're not likely to let you rot in some lil studio apartment in Chiang Mai...

If all they're gonna do is sit around chanting, why not go live at a temple? *shrug*

[^_^]

Thanks eTiMaGo,

You are absolutely right.

I think Ting Tong might go as far as disowning his own parents if they were to get into his way to getting rich.

Like I said, he reacted quite aggressively to anyone whom speak negatively about the addams Family.

Yes...it was a very delicate situation...and like you said...it could end our friendship too.

I'm now the only person whom are able to talk to him without him freaking out.

But after the first round of just listening, and the second round of me talking logic-sense-evidence to him, I was quite relieved that he didn't freak out at me; although a couple of times he reacted kind of like irritated during our couple hours talk.

So, I take it as a good sign that I should push for more evidence...and hence my posting about the story here hoping to get more advice/help.

Another upcoming problem in the horizon though...Ting Tong and the Addams Family are in the legal process of adoption!!! Which is that the Addams Family will be adopting the surname of Ting Tong's Family and will legally be a family member of Ting Tong's family. Something stinks...but I don't know what yet!

Edited January 11, 2010 by ^_^

[eTiMaGo]

God, I know this kind of people only too well... they get one finger around you and they grab more and more and more until they suck all the life and energy and money out of you...

whatever happens, you gotta stay calm, you gotta be on his side, but be the cautious side to his personality, if you know what I mean...

something like "you know, I was interested in what you told me about this family, I wanted to know more and found out who are the shareholders of the cargo building, here's a copy of the official document... can you tell me whats their last name/company name again?"

There's no such thing as easy money unless you're really really lucky, or born into it... Hard work, dedication, a flash of genius, only these are real...

[^_^]

"you know, I was interested in what you told me about this family, I wanted to know more and found out who are the shareholders of the cargo building, here's a copy of the official document... can you tell me whats their last name/company name again?"

Your second reply in a row...right on the pulse

What you mentioned in the second post was exactly the tactic I'm using now.

Almost word for word...that was what I asked him on my first conversation with Ting Tong.

Thanks again

Edited January 11, 2010 by ^_^

[coronadian]

Wow, that is quite a story.

He also claimed that the Royal Family gave him a well known Condo Unit in a Hi-So area BKK as a gift.

That alone should be easy enough to be proven if only it were true. First of all that condo unit should bring in quite a bit of money, no? Why don't they take on the of the condos for themselves, hate BKK and rather live in a crappy place in chiang mai?

Ask your friend to go on a trip to bangkok, say you have business there or whatever and would like his help, and then ask him to ask the family where that condo was. You can even say u want to buy a condo there, but I bet they are all sold out already :-)

[^_^]

Wow, that is quite a story.

He also claimed that the Royal Family gave him a well known Condo Unit in a Hi-So area BKK as a gift.

That alone should be easy enough to be proven if only it were true. First of all that condo unit should bring in quite a bit of money, no? Why don't they take on the of the condos for themselves, hate BKK and rather live in a crappy place in chiang mai?

Ask your friend to go on a trip to bangkok, say you have business there or whatever and would like his help, and then ask him to ask the family where that condo was. You can even say u want to buy a condo there, but I bet they are all sold out already :-)

Hi coronadian,

Thanks for your suggestions

I've tried asking Ting Tong to ask for some document proof of what the Addams Family claimed...whatever...even just a company name, or a telephone number, or a third person involved, but....nothing!

First, Ting Tong said it would be disrespectful to request for any proof because that would shows that he does not have faith in the Addams Family.

Then I ask Ting Tong how could a business as enormous as an investment amount of 60 Billion Baht happens without a single trace or evidence?

Ting Tong's reply: "I believe in my six sense...and my six sense tells me that I've hit the jackpot this time"

As for the condo unit, Ting Tong said that the Addams claimed that they have mortgaged that too.

Edited January 11, 2010 by ^_^

[^_^]

By the way, I've been Googling for hours but can't seems to find out more information regarding the investment structure of the Suvarnabhumi Airport. A list of investors etc. So far, I only found out that the Thai Government and a Japan Company/Bank(?) was the two main investor...but didn't mention the amount. If I could find out the amount of money that the Thai Government and the Japan Company/Bank invested, that could also prove that Wilma's claim of 60 Billion Baht investment in the Cargo Terminal alone is impossible.

[coronadian]

)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ 2010-01-11 19:39:44) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way, I've been Googling for hours but can't seems to find out more information regarding the investment structure of the Suvarnabhumi Airport. A list of investors etc. So far, I only found out that the Thai Government and a Japan Company/Bank(?) was the two main investor...but didn't mention the amount. If I could find out the amount of money that the Thai Government and the Japan Company/Bank invested, that could also prove that Wilma's claim of 60 Billion Baht investment in the Cargo Terminal alone is impossible.

Do you know how much money 60 billion baht is? If that family could invest 60 billion in something than you can be sure their names would be widely known. Even if they had lost everything, you can be sure they would not live like this. They would have a dozen of millions of debt, but they would not live like this. Besides, how exactly does a Cargo Terminal cost 60B baht....or more as surely they are not financing it on their own. Is it plated in gold with diamonds on top?

I know you don't believe this nonsense either, but ask your friend these questions :-)

Carl Sagan once said:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."

Edit: here is a list of the richest people of thailand: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Thais_by_net_worth Unless they are one of the families in the top 5 they have not invested 60B in anything.

Edited January 11, 2010 by coronadian

[t.s]

would it be plagiarism if i used this as an outline for my next novel?

[^_^]

Hi Coronadian,

I think you've misread

Wilma's claimed that her share is 500 Million Baht in the investment of the whole Cargo terminal which cost 60 Billion Baht.

But your point still stands

I can sense your frustration in trying to get such an obvious message over...because I have that frustration too when I try to get the message over to Ting Tong!

[coronadian]

)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ( @ 2010-01-11 20:21:57) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi Coronadian,

I think you've misread

Wilma's claimed that her share is 500 Million Baht in the investment of the whole Cargo terminal which cost 60 Billion Baht.

But your point still stands

I can sense your frustration in trying to get such an obvious message over...because I have that frustration too when I try to get the message over to Ting Tong!

Ah, you are correct, I appologize. This does change things to be slightly more plausable, but of course the whole story still "stinks" ;-). I still doubt the a new cargo terminal costs 60B THB too.

Edit: What the... is going on with my quotes, when I edit something it gets all messed up. I must appologize for this mess...... :-(

Edited January 11, 2010 by coronadian

[^_^]

Hi t.s,

Just took a minute to check dictionary for the word "plagiarism"

Anyway, I don't think the story will sell...because even though I'm facing the real situation here, I still can't believe how could Ting Tong be so stupid!

Therefore, who's gonna believe your story?

Hahahahaha

Edited January 11, 2010 by ^_^

[coronadian]

would it be plagiarism if i used this as an outline for my next novel?

You should sell that novel to Hollywood, they seem to love completely implausable stories :-)

[^_^]

Hi Coronadian,

I still doubt the a new cargo terminal costs 60B THB though.

Yes...I doubted that too.

The whole airport investment cost 150+ Billion Baht.

How could an Cargo Terminal alone cost 60 Billion Baht?

Furthermore, DHL just invested in HUGE Airport Cargo Handling in Six Countries (including Suvarnabhumi) and it just cost them 30-40 Billion Baht and already making new headlines!!!

Anyway, how could a 60 Billion Baht investor went under the radar?

How could an Cargo Terminal alone cost 60 Billion Baht?

If only I can find some information on the internet regarding the actual figures...this will be one of the 'evidence' to prove what the Addams aren't.

[powderpuff]

Normally stories like this begin "Once Upon A Time"...

[Donnyboy]

would it be plagiarism if i used this as an outline for my next novel?

You should sell that novel to Hollywood, they seem to love completely implausable stories :-)

better still, it would make a great thai soap

just add some slapping scenes,and more arguements

[^_^]

would it be plagiarism if i used this as an outline for my next novel?

You should sell that novel to Hollywood, they seem to love completely implausable stories :-)

better still, it would make a great thai soap

just add some slapping scenes,and more arguements

[tonywebster]

How are they paying the 200,000 baht per month interest that you mention? maybe you can take ting tong to the bank when the supposed payment is due, offer to make the payment for one month so you get the account number. of course you will never have to pay as it does not exist.

[PattayaParent]

As you say, it's your friends greed that has got him into this situation, not his desire to do good.

Can you use this angle with him?

Try to make him see that his motives are wrong and that instead of being rewarded he will be punished (it's bad Kharma) maybe get him to go with you to a monk and ask advice?

[babuhavas]

If only chanting can make people rich,why would anyone will work?

EXPLAIN THIS LOUD AND CLEAR TO YOUR FRIEND

[eTiMaGo]

hmmm so he does not want to question them in fear of showing he has no faith in them... catch-22 isn't it? and I'm sure if he did, they would erupt in righteous anger anyway, what better way to get someone to back off than to scream and shout..

[Luke06]

Interesting story

AOT (Airports of Thailand) manages and controls Suvarnabhumi airport, as such it would follow this includes the cargo terminal.

AOT is a publicly listed company and as such a list of its top shareholders is easily available. Major shareholders as below:

http://www.set.or.th/set/companyholder.do?...&country=US

The smallest of those major shareholders owns 0.64% or 9,176,200 shares. Current share price is 40 Baht a share = 367, 048, 000 which at the rate you mention is less than their 500 million Baht hence they should be on the list, taking account of the fact that the costs of the shares at the time was likely less. Where this falls flat is the fact that AOT was not a public company till 2004 and even more interesting is that the airport project didn't start till 2002.

Originally the New Bangkok International Airport company was founded in 1996 and originally owned all, it was dissolved in 2005 and all handed over to AOT. Subsequently I would have thought their shareholding which they obtained 2 years before actual construction took place and after the Asian crash would be worth substantially more than 500 million today if there ownership was transferred to AOT which would follow or they lost it which would seem very unlikely but mean it was worth nothing. Of course this is if it ever existed...which it didn't.

Where should I send the bill?

[thunder30101]

Are you kidding me ??? why are you even wasting the time writing about this ??? It amazes me you are spending time trying to track down any information on this at all, do you even have any reason to believe such a crazy story ? Dude get a grip and leave that stuff alone.

[Kf6vci]

First, make a list of all th eclaims by the Adams Family. Then check each one for probability.

i am into real estate and can tell you that it would be a piece of cake (= very easy) to get additional funds with good assets.

10 years ago, Suvarnabhumi was not even planned. ** Con men claim to be associated with wealthy families etc. but then, they need to borrow money, eh?

There is a saying:

no good deed will go unpunished. T. will soon be hated, not loved by these people.

T. is a sucker. As his friend, you better do whatever it takes to get these people out of his life!

Delusions of grandeur...

Where are their friends, since they are such good people?