The "dinner Guest On The House" Scam.

[SeanMoran]

Last night after dinner, I went exploring down the alley alongside the Tesco-Lotus carpark here in Ban Chang, looking for somewhere smalltime in the way of a bar/restaurant sort of place where I might just sit outside alone with a quiet beer to watch the Sun go down over a meal, not necessarily fancy or western food, but just somewhere local, within walking distance of this hotel, to get out of the room for an hour for a feed.

I came across a place that looked nicely setup (albeit across the driveway from a multi-storey carpark if you're chair is facing the wrong way and you have to look at it), and I met the proprietor before I'd even finished the exploratory lap of the alley. Only 40 baht for a small bottle of Bia Chang seemed like a good start for a nice little local stopover, and the menus were bilingual as well as a good range of fare for homesick farang tastebuds, along with the standard Thai food. Great!

Looked good from the start, so I bought a beer, met the two other staff, one of whom sat down with me for an incomprehensible chat between phonecalls and texting, so I bought her a drink just to be social, ended up ordering another beer for me and another Spy for her, and promised to return tomorrow evening (tonight) with new camera batteries to take some shots and eat dinner.

That was last night, so tomorrow evening was tonight.

I made it back a little before the time I'd promised, and took a good lot of photos at dusk before sitting down for the meal and a drink I was after. My nokia-toting friend from last night was apparently also the cook, so I thought it best not to buy her a Spy before ordering my food incase she might get tipsy and burn herself on the hotplate, so she went to the fridge and got herself a Chang of her own anyway, and came and sat down to continue with her telemarketing on the nokia.

On the menu, in English, Chicken & Cashews for 69 baht. I'd noticed it last night and as it is one of my favourite dishes, that's what I ordered. The big boss was out tonight, but Miss Nokia and other staff member that I suppose might be the bosses wife went on upstairs and cooked up a feast ... actually two feasts.

When the plates arrived, one of them looked like it had cashews on it, so I guess that must have been what I ordered, and it was indeed as good as I'd hoped since yesterday, so no complaints at all on the quality of the food. It was just a bit annoying trying to enjoy the meal with the cook sitting at my table gassbagging on her cellphone about farang lor and pointing at me in between mouthfuls of whatever she cooked up for herself and MY cashews!

In the end, the smoke from the car fumes was getting to me a bit and I could barely breathe, so I finished the beer and what was left of my chicken & cashews and asked for the bill. Now, at 40 baht for the beer and 69 baht for the meal, totalling 109 baht, it might have been tolerable once if it came to perhaps 220 or double, because of unrequested dinner guest who also happens to be the kitchenhand and telephone advertising executive. I could have mentioned politely that I'd prefer to eat alone in future.

345 thb was a bit extreme for one small beer and a plate of food though. Now I can understand why I was the only customer there this evening. Nice looking little place from the outside, but I don't think many customers would want to go back a second time.

[Phil Conners]

Just say no.

[neverdie]

My goodness, I wont tell you what a feast I had last night at a lovely restuarant situated over a lake with two friends & the entire bill came to 325 baht.

[way2muchcoffee]

I don't understand. You made a 'date' with the cook. When she sat at your table, prearranged by you, you were agreeing to pay for her food and drinks as well as yours. You mention the two feasts, which suggests that the size of the portions was large. Many restaurants have small and large sizes for their main course items. How was the bill itemized? Was the charge for each item correct? 345 baht for two beers (were there more than two?), two large dishes of food (more than two?), plus rice, ice, and water isn't too bad for Bangkok eateries.

Edited January 13, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[SeanMoran]

I don't understand. You made a 'date' with the cook. When she sat at your table, prearranged by you, you were agreeing to pay for her food and drinks as well as yours. How was the bill itemized? Was the charge for each item correct?

They knew what they were doing. After the (I assume) owner/partner wrote the bill she turned it over and scrawled 345 on the back before circling it. It's a sure sign of foulplay, but once again I'd tried to be a decent customer from the start, spo what a pity they traded a couple of hundred baht four nights a week for the next month, for 345 baht tonight.

When I arrived, Miss Nokia was there out the front, (it's an outdoor/verandah sort of arrangement) so I took the set of photos of the venue and returned, at which point she told me what table to sit down at, and considering that the bench she pointed to when she said "Nang" (sit) was not facing the carpark, I saw no reason not to just sit down. I never asked for a dinner guest. I never prearranged for anything. She's the cook - she's working - I don't invite the cook to come and sit at my table and drink beer with me until after the dinner is finished. This is what I meant by the 'multi-tasking'.

No big deal anyway, for the loss of a couple of baht. I guess in this instance, it's just sad to see some smalltime entrepeneurs try to take advantage of an honest customer who would have been back tomorrow night if they'd not shafted him, even for that small amount, albeit 300% of the prices on the menu.

[dudemeister]

[lordsux]

"Stupid is as stupid does."

[SeanMoran]

"Stupid is as stupid does."

The most ironic part was that after she wrote the figure down at 345 baht for a 40 baht beer and a 69 baht meal, and I only had 339 in 100s and loose change, I offerred a 500 baht note, no complaints, too bad, vote with feet and smile.

The poor girl didn't have 155 change in the till and had to go out the back to get her purse to find a 100 baht note. For that alone, I left a 50 baht tip. It seems that they need all the help they can get. Maybe that's why they've got so desperate as to have to gear their marketing strategy away from repeat business and get what they can when they can? I don't think it was anything personal against me apart from the fact that I am a farang who only met them yesterday and will now live up to their expectations and not go back tomorrow.

I'll be stupid somewhere else tomorrow.

[sanook2me]

Maybe that's why they've got so desperate as to have to gear their marketing strategy away from repeat business and get what they can when they can?

Yup, that is one common strategy here that always amuses me... no customers so raise the prices... more profit to be made

[Briggsy]

Did this "cook" invite you to "come to any parties" by any chance?

If I were you, I'd stop hanging around with the "lowest common denominator" of Thai society. Seems like you are a bit of a sucker for a pretty face, according to your posts.

[SeanMoran]

Did this "cook" invite you to "come to any parties" by any chance?

If I were you, I'd stop hanging around with the "lowest common denominator" of Thai society.

Seems like you are a bit of a sucker for a pretty face, according to your posts.

No. This was a restaurant. She invited herself to dinner on me, and cooked it too.

Yes. Maybe I'll revert to a nice safe diet of burget gai/moo at the 711 from now on?

No. There was nothing close to a pretty face in last night's ordeal. Just a sucker for somewhere decent to have dinner. Maybe KFC tonight?

[torrenova]

I've re-read this a few times and on the balance of probabilities, you had a date with a girl you had been buying drinks for the previous day. Whether available for paid services or simply available as a single lady, I think they read more into it than you obviously have, but perhaps should have. Getting drinks from the fridge on your account is bad form but all is not as simple as the OP suggests.

[SeanMoran]

I've re-read this a few times and on the balance of probabilities, you had a date with a girl you had been buying drinks for the previous day. Whether available for paid services or simply available as a single lady, I think they read more into it than you obviously have, but perhaps should have. Getting drinks from the fridge on your account is bad form but all is not as simple as the OP suggests.

Maybe there was some wishful thinking there in someone's mind, but I just went back to the same restaurant for dinner last night. I wasn't asking anyone on a date, especially not staff employed to work there. I just wanted chicken & cashews and a beer.

[dave111223]

Why were you buying Spy's for a waitress/cook on the first visit anyways? That's something you do at soi cowboy, not a local restaurant...

Maybe a beer for a male Thai musician would be appropriate; but drinks for the female waitress, you already branded yourself a desperate old man on the first night, but did you expect on the second?

The fact that she accepted your drinks offer means she's probably a ho anyways, and the fact that she stitched you up on the second night is little surprise, you should have bailed when you saw her helping herself to beers from the fridge.

Edited January 14, 2010 by dave111223

[SeanMoran]

Why were you buying Spy's for a waitress/cook on the first visit anyways? That's something you do at soi cowboy, not a local restaurant...

Maybe a beer for a male Thai musician would be appropriate; but drinks for the female waitress, you already branded yourself a desperate old man on the first night, but did you expect on the second?

The fact that she accepted your drinks offer means she's probably a ho anyways, and the fact that she stitched you up on the second night is little surprise, you should have bailed when you saw her helping herself to beers from the fridge.

No to the first part and yes to the second.

If common decency brands me as a desperate old man, then bring on the KFC. Just because they have male and female counter staff at KFC doesn't mean every customer who goes to KFC for a chicken fillet burger and gets served by a female is after woman, does it? Whatever happened to plain old food?

Yes! I have bailed now. I had the dinner, finished the beer, paid the bill and left. This unexpected change in the business/customer arrangement is why I started the thread. Even at a place that looks respectable and (IMO) in need of business possibly due to a bad location next to the carpark of a department store, there are still places that seem to have the habit of scamming the customer. It's not everywhere in Thailand, but so far, the only honest restaurants I've found in Ban Chang this visit have been KFC and 711.

[dave111223]

If common decency brands me as a desperate old man, then bring on the KFC. Just because they have male and female counter staff at KFC doesn't mean every customer who goes to KFC for a chicken fillet burger and gets served by a female is after woman, does it? Whatever happened to plain old food?

I'm not sure I understand your KFC analogy? It would be the same as if you walked into KFC and asked the girl behind the counter if she wanted to have a sit down, a chicken wing and coke with you.... which in my book would mean "Yes you are after women".

Old foreign guy buying Spys for a waitress in Thailand is not considered "common decency". You need to be more aware of the local mindset if you plan to be here long.

[SeanMoran]

I'm not sure I understand your KFC analogy? It would be the same as if you walked into KFC and asked the girl behind the counter if she wanted to have a sit down, a chicken wing and coke with you.... which in my book would mean "Yes you are after women".

Old foreign guy buying Spys for a waitress in Thailand is not considered "common decency". You need to be more aware of the local mindset if you plan to be here long.

The KFC analogy is an attempt to explain to you that I was looking for a legitimate restaurant, to eat dinner. Let's go back to Tuesday night, and I'll try to explain how this 'Spy' thing happened:

I walked past and saw the place; nicely decorated if one could try to ignore the carpark location, and the proprietor, a bloke, calls out hello, so I stopped back after finishing the walk, checked the prices of a beer, sat down at the bar and had one. The cook, (who looks a few years older than I by the way) came over and the conversation ensued among three or four of us. All good talk about the business, the music on the stereo, positive sort of stuff.

The bar stools were rather short and the bar relatively high, so I adjourned to a table to rest the elbows a little, and she came and sat down. Fair enough to simply ask someone if they'd like a drink in the midst of a conversation, isn't it? She ordered a Spy so fair enough. It was after dinner time and no customers to cook for, so no probs.

My decision to return the next night for a feed was due to faith in the restaurant, not the cook, not in anyway more than would the food be edible? The same as if I went to KFC for a burger. Buying a drink for a male or female musician or kitchenhand or counter assistant or taxi driver or whatever their current job might be is not marriage proposal.

You're right about the local mindset, although it's different here than back in the village 20km up the road. I'm looking forward to trying somewhere a little less CBD tonight and hope to have a good report on a decent restaurant tomorrow morning, where they let the customers dine alone by default.

[OxfordWill]

well the cruz of it is that no, in this land it is not fair enough to offer someone a beer mid conversation like you might back home. You set the whole thing in motion. But, on the plus side, you seem to be a sensible chap who knows this doesnt matter, it wasnt alot of money and you did some good. The only puzzle is why you started a thread about a scam.

[TAWP]

Don't treat staff like friends or dates and they wont think they are friends or on a date...

[SeanMoran]

well the cruz of it is that no, in this land it is not fair enough to offer someone a beer mid conversation like you might back home. You set the whole thing in motion. But, on the plus side, you seem to be a sensible chap who knows this doesnt matter, it wasnt alot of money and you did some good. The only puzzle is why you started a thread about a scam.

Sorry for delay to reply. Just got back from the old village a few minutes ago.

Partly as a sequel to the thread on the 'Come to the Party' scam that I foolishly fell for on Monday night, but this time I didn't think I was as stupid as last Monday. It just seemed rather scammish last night that a 'legitimate' member of the staff, in collusion with the acting management, would turn around and stuff up the beginning of what might have been a good long-term business/customer relationship providing I remembered to pack the ventolin puffer to cope with all the exhaust fumes from the cars next time.

Yours and some of the advice from other postors about my setting up for the fall in offering someone a drink last night is probably quite accurate. I'll take that advice from now on and not offer nobody nothin' ever again, and keep my manners for somewhere else where they might be appreciated in the context they're given.

Thanks to those who have helped remind me of the old adage, "Nice guys finish last."

[NADTATIDA1]

You really do get yourself into some situations,i want to see the photos? just so i can laugh some more!

message to oneself.....learn from my mistakes

[SeanMoran]

You really do get yourself into some situations,i want to see the photos? just so i can laugh some more!

message to oneself.....learn from my mistakes

Sometimes I reckon it's the 'kon diao' factor, blundering along on my own without much understanding of the language and 'halfway to Pattaya' culture.

I'd originally hoped to get the photos up on the web to promote the little place. It looks quite nice although it's very small and probably no more than an alternative to some of the restaurants inside the building.

Now, it's probably best that I don't post the photos along with a less-than-happy report, because they're not big time scammers, and they're doing the best they can to stay in business, and I've gone so far as to identify the location of the carpark, so maybe I should omit any further identification, unless perhaps I might have a chat with the big boss in a week or so and explain how things might work better if lone customers might be left alone to eat a meal.

On the mistakes, it's strange how the village I stayed at last week was so different from here, as far as the treatment in restaurants. Ban Chang truly does seem to be halfway to Pattaya, not just geographically.

[NADTATIDA1]

You really do get yourself into some situations,i want to see the photos? just so i can laugh some more!

message to oneself.....learn from my mistakes

Sometimes I reckon it's the 'kon diao' factor, blundering along on my own without much understanding of the language and 'halfway to Pattaya' culture.

I'd originally hoped to get the photos up on the web to promote the little place. It looks quite nice although it's very small and probably no more than an alternative to some of the restaurants inside the building.

Now, it's probably best that I don't post the photos along with a less-than-happy report, because they're not big time scammers, and they're doing the best they can to stay in business, and I've gone so far as to identify the location of the carpark, so maybe I should omit any further identification, unless perhaps I might have a chat with the big boss in a week or so and explain how things might work better if lone customers might be left alone to eat a meal.

On the mistakes, it's strange how the village I stayed at last week was so different from here, as far as the treatment in restaurants. Ban Chang truly does seem to be halfway to Pattaya, not just geographically.

It sounds to me you would be better of in a village,the number of times i am asked by my partners friends where can i find a nice man(same me )at the very least in the village you will be treated a lot better than you have been on your recent escapades!

Maybe an avenue you should try is going on a few dating websites(if you haven"t already?) and as you are here in Thailand hooking up with a few different village girls or city girls that are in employment and see where it leads you,this way you can soon find out if they are genuine in there desires towards you and not just out for a "party" or free dinners which you are so good at providing

I await the next installment!

[Rimmer]

Good food at half that price, just across the road at the Camel Bar, and the cook always stays in the kitchen where she belongs

[SeanMoran]

Good food at half that price, just across the road at the Camel Bar, and the cook always stays in the kitchen where she belongs

That's true, and for the past three years back in Australia, it was always the lamb roast at the Camel Pub that I've remembered and ranted about at forums like this, even drawing a map at one point, because it was in 2548-49 (2005-06) one of the major highlights whenever I was in the Ban Chang neighbourhood. The mighty Camel Pub!

Now, I reckon it's indirectly related to the legislation, which I suppose they have to abide by. It used to be okay to sit at the bar inside, have a pre-dinner drink, and then after the meal arrived, wander over to one of the tables out back in that little room off on the south side of the bar. No funny business with hungry mouths to feed or order drinks for. Non-smoking regulations inside might be the difference now. No outside bar to sit alone at without attracting unwanted attention, but only the tables for four.

Also, I apologise for that quip about nowhere decent to eat beyond KFC or 711 in Ban Chang. There are plenty of fine places with no hassles from the TWPA (Thirsty Women in Poverty Association) and that includes the Camel Pub if you can enjoy a beer and a meal sans tobacco, as well as a range of others that I should have had the foresight to remember before mouthing off about one mildly uncomfortable experience last night.

Ban Chang is still a long way from Pattaya. Good luck might balance this week out yet.

[Credo]

I long ago learned not to be friendly to the wait staff at restaurants. I usually go to the same place for an extended period of time. To begin with, I am almost nasty. I don't let them stand near my table, I usually order the same food etc. I do, however, usually give them a nice big tip--it's for putting up with my surly nature! They seem to like not having to stand there, pouring my beer and smiling.

Thais are often nice people, but when they are overly friendly, watch out!

[Matan]

I long ago learned not to be friendly to the wait staff at restaurants. I usually go to the same place for an extended period of time. To begin with, I am almost nasty. I don't let them stand near my table, I usually order the same food etc. I do, however, usually give them a nice big tip--it's for putting up with my surly nature! They seem to like not having to stand there, pouring my beer and smiling.

Thais are often nice people, but when they are overly friendly, watch out!

I spent nearly 3 years being utterly, utterly victimised by scams of a similar nature to the OP's in the land of smiles. After another good day session I'd find a decent looking restaurant, sit down at a table and get some food and usually buy a drink for the pretty thing serving. Sometimes they'd sit with me in exchange for english lessons. (I was an English professor after I retired from the SAS-BlackOps). I'd always wind up with a huge bill even if I'd only had 6 changs and a plate of pad thai. In the end I took things further than you and developed a great system for dealing with these problems - whenever I go to any restaurant, it goes like this:

1. I snarl at the waitress who seats me, then spit on the floor.

2. I refuse to speak to any of the staff and instead point at items I want in the menu, which I insist on keeping.

3. I carefully note down the prices of my orders from the menu and produce my own receipt.

You can never be too careful in the Land of Scams.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Matan

[Patsycat]

I long ago learned not to be friendly to the wait staff at restaurants. I usually go to the same place for an extended period of time. To begin with, I am almost nasty. I don't let them stand near my table, I usually order the same food etc. I do, however, usually give them a nice big tip--it's for putting up with my surly nature! They seem to like not having to stand there, pouring my beer and smiling.

Thais are often nice people, but when they are overly friendly, watch out!

I spent nearly 3 years being utterly, utterly victimised by scams of a similar nature to the OP's in the land of smiles. After another good day session I'd find a decent looking restaurant, sit down at a table and get some food and usually buy a drink for the pretty thing serving. Sometimes they'd sit with me in exchange for english lessons. (I was an English professor after I retired from the SAS-BlackOps). I'd always wind up with a huge bill even if I'd only had 6 changs and a plate of pad thai. In the end I took things further than you and developed a great system for dealing with these problems - whenever I go to any restaurant, it goes like this:

1. I snarl at the waitress who seats me, then spit on the floor.

2. I refuse to speak to any of the staff and instead point at items I want in the menu, which I insist on keeping.

3. I carefully note down the prices of my orders from the menu and produce my own receipt.

You can never be too careful in the Land of Scams.

Do you have any SAS tatoos?

[SeanMoran]

I long ago learned not to be friendly to the wait staff at restaurants. I usually go to the same place for an extended period of time. To begin with, I am almost nasty. I don't let them stand near my table, I usually order the same food etc. I do, however, usually give them a nice big tip--it's for putting up with my surly nature! They seem to like not having to stand there, pouring my beer and smiling.

Thais are often nice people, but when they are overly friendly, watch out!

I spent nearly 3 years being utterly, utterly victimised by scams of a similar nature to the OP's in the land of smiles. After another good day session I'd find a decent looking restaurant, sit down at a table and get some food and usually buy a drink for the pretty thing serving. Sometimes they'd sit with me in exchange for english lessons. (I was an English professor after I retired from the SAS-BlackOps). I'd always wind up with a huge bill even if I'd only had 6 changs and a plate of pad thai. In the end I took things further than you and developed a great system for dealing with these problems - whenever I go to any restaurant, it goes like this:

1. I snarl at the waitress who seats me, then spit on the floor.

2. I refuse to speak to any of the staff and instead point at items I want in the menu, which I insist on keeping.

3. I carefully note down the prices of my orders from the menu and produce my own receipt.

You can never be too careful in the Land of Scams.

I must thank you both for helping me see the error of my ways after moving from the village (where friendliness to the people one deals with is a good thing to maintain even if it's an act) to the city, where I must look rather like some village idiot.

Time for the grumpy old man act from now on in the city, if I chance upon those sorts of circumstances in those sorts of restaurants again. I hope this little misadventure might be of help to anyone else like me who chances unwittingly upon this sort of scam.

[Matan]

Do you have any SAS tatoos?

Only the scars from the bullet, knife and shrapnel wounds from my time in Afghanistan, Venezuela, the Golden Triangle, Liberia, Sri Lanka and North Korea, though I'm not supposed to talk about that last one.