Thaksin's Judgement Day

[rixalex]

I rub shoulders with "Democracy Movement" people daily, and so far have not heard any talk about the Thaksin/judicial money matters.

If so, they must be the only people in the land not talking about it then. How strange.

Or perhaps there's a language barrier between you and your red-shirt wearing "democracy movement" friends?

[Friction]

I notice with interest the attempt to reduce this "Democracy Movement' to being motivated exclusively by Mr. Thaksin's judicial money matters, and that actions in the next few weeks are only as an extension of that.

This is either a sad commentary on lack of political insight or is pure agenda. I suspect the latter.

I suppose y'all will say the next "double standard' highlighting action on Mr. Prem's Golf Course in Chantaburi the end of this month, is tied to judicial/Thaksin money matters....just doesn't compute boys!

I know some of you will also be annoyed by my repeated reference to a "Democracy Movement". But this is no more than my annoyance at your persistence on reducing the Democracy Movement to a non-descriptive clothing colour. Have no doubt that persistent reference to this "Democracy Movement" as "Red Shirts" is laden with agenda.

One side of the political divide absolutely needs to hide the presence of a 'Democracy Movement', for this implies the absence of democracy...hence the non-political "Red Shirts' descriptor neatly avoids this problem.

Sad isn't it.

"a lack of insight" I guarantee this!

Answer this: "Why then has "the Fugitive" done nothing at the time when he WAS at the helm, to promote genuine Democracy, to promote genuine human rights, to promote a strong judicial system and real independent courts, and, and, and, and.....was it this why he aimed at the absolute majority in parliament?

The TRT was up to the rim full with selfish, self serving people, just one reminder: Ms.Sudarat or better known as "Ms.20%" if she had only promoted good health why did she flee to Paris?

To install a "genuine Democracy of the people"?

Was it Sir?

Attend a few "Democracy Movement" rallies with an interpretor and you will have your answer Samuian.

Have someone with a solid background in Thai political history, including Mr. Thaksin's timeframe, do a comparative analysis and you will have your answer Samuian.

I see the media mandated directive to attach the "fugitive" descriptor to Mr. Thaksin in every report has worked wonders with you. They got ya! Repeat something often enough with no alternative POV, and people begin to believe it. They got ya!

I would be happy with a foreign supervised, free, fair and transparent election to establish democracy certification to Thailand....wouldn't you Samuian? With prior agreement from all parties that the loser remain the loser.

[Jingthing]

How can you call yourself a democracy movement when your leader is on record as saying democracy is not important? So, when you insist on harping on your talking point that the red shirts are pro democracy, it really just comes off as pure propaganda for westerner consumption. Such propagandists know that westerners tend to eat up anything with the word democracy in it. I don't blame you for trying. You are a true believer in a cause.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[Friction]

I rub shoulders with "Democracy Movement" people daily, and so far have not heard any talk about the Thaksin/judicial money matters.

If so, they must be the only people in the land not talking about it then. How strange.

Or perhaps there's a language barrier between you and your red-shirt wearing "democracy movement" friends?

Actually, that is not true Rixalex. Only those on the other side of the political divide are talking about it, which is just a minority. And the reason they are trying to talk it up, is again agenda. They need to escalate this discussion to have any chance of linking it to future "Red shirt wearing "Democracy Movement" people" (thank you for that rixalex-an excellent descriptor)

In other words, escalating this Thaksin/judicial money matter discussion is a neat way to narrow and diminish future 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement actions, making them appear to be totally self-serving, instead of focussed on returning democracy to Thailand.

So yeah, I am not surprised to see this bloviating about the money stuff...it has a clear political objective unrelated to the money issue itself.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Friction

[Insight]

Actually, that is not true Rixalex. Only those on the other side of the political divide are talking about it, which is just a minority. And the reason they are trying to talk it up, is again agenda. They need to escalate this discussion to have any chance of linking it to future "Red shirt wearing "Democracy Movement" people" (thank you for that rixalex-an excellent descriptor)

In other words, escalating this Thaksin/judicial money matter discussion is a neat way to narrow and diminish future 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement actions, making them appear to be totally self-serving, instead of focussed on returning democracy to Thailand.

So yeah, I am not surprised to see this bloviating about the money stuff...it has a clear political objective unrelated to the money issue itself.

"it" being the Surayad's land encroachment, or "it" being Thaksin's asset case?

For the people I know, nobody really gives a toss about Surayad's land on Khao Yai - it's Thaksin gripping at straws. All eyes for sure are on this court case - people are concerned if there's been an attempt to "pocket" the judges.

[Jingthing]

Its most likely a propaganda tactic for the anti-democracy red shirts to ACT like they don't care about the Thaksin money case, because they know they have lost it. OK, calling them anti-democracy is pretty much just as silly as calling them pro-democracy in the context of Thai politics ...

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[rixalex]

If so, they must be the only people in the land not talking about it then. How strange.

Or perhaps there's a language barrier between you and your red-shirt wearing "democracy movement" friends?

Actually, that is not true Rixalex. Only those on the other side of the political divide are talking about it, which is just a minority.

If what you say is true i can only conclude that everyone i meet must be on the other side of that political divide you speak of. If it's a minority it's a darn big one.

Perhaps if you could spare a moment away from all those red-shirt wearing "democracy" crusaders you mingle with, you would see and hear for yourself what the rest of the population is talking about.

[scorecard]

Dear Friction,

You wrote: "....I would be happy with a foreign supervised, free, fair and transparent election to establish democracy certification to Thailand....wouldn't you Samuian? With prior agreement from all parties that the loser remain the loser. ..."

If your so convinced that the red shirt movement is a sincere dedicated 'Democracy Movement' therefore serious fighters against corruption, therefore a group who sincerely abide by the letter of the law in their own actions and seriously promote abidence of the law, and seriously promote that every citizen is equal under the law, and don't associate with known and convicted criminals, then why would you want to see a foreign supervised election?

But I guess you'll claim that every other person who is not a red shirt is totally corrupt and will all rig the election to ensure the taxsin/PT party don't win. Never mind of course that there is a mountain of evidence that many of the people in the PT party (the cohorts of the red shirts) and their on-the-run real leader bought numerous elections, often openly. (Not to say of course that other parties have never bought votes.)

I too have some access to what the red shirt leaders say when they are the stage.

Can you quote me any instance whatever of the red shirt leaders talking to their troops about the concept of democracy, the processes of democracy, the pillars which build and maintain a good picture of democcarcy, the things to beware of which can destrot real democracy.

Can you quote me any details of any specific actions of any sort by the red shirts (your Democracy Movement) arranging for any form of education about the concepts of democracy for their troops or for any other groups. And when has taxsin done the same.

I challenge you to come up with some specific examples.

And further, can you show me some specific evidence that any of the actual red shirt leaders are seriously knowledgeable about the concept / the pillars / the processes of democracy.

Sorry I don't buy your arguments.

[RegularReader]

I rub shoulders with "Democracy Movement" people daily, and so far have not heard any talk about the Thaksin/judicial money matters.

If so, they must be the only people in the land not talking about it then. How strange.

Or perhaps there's a language barrier between you and your red-shirt wearing "democracy movement" friends?

Actually, that is not true Rixalex. Only those on the other side of the political divide are talking about it, which is just a minority. And the reason they are trying to talk it up, is again agenda. They need to escalate this discussion to have any chance of linking it to future "Red shirt wearing "Democracy Movement" people" (thank you for that rixalex-an excellent descriptor)

In other words, escalating this Thaksin/judicial money matter discussion is a neat way to narrow and diminish future 'Red Shirt Democracy Movement actions, making them appear to be totally self-serving, instead of focussed on returning democracy to Thailand.

So yeah, I am not surprised to see this bloviating about the money stuff...it has a clear political objective unrelated to the money issue itself.

Me thinks this "friction" person is sounding very much like a well "educated" and well paid "inflamer"...

[h90]

Sad isn't it.

I think the red shirts are going to be sad when the verdict comes in.

BTW, how do you think they you will react to the verdict?

If it was Thaksins last money, they will simply go home, because Thaksin won't have much money left to pay them.

[Jingthing]

Once again good on you Thanong! In my estimation your right up there with Hans Christian Anderson

Hmmm.

:D :D

Sometimes when you try too hard to be funny, it just doesn't work. (Yes, I would know.)

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[mca]

Gotta love the Nation. They rely on more sources than Heinz.

[animatic]

Well as in the past Ferwert has left the building.

But not until after, under the noom de plume of Friction

making people avidly discuss several points of the day.

I understand that once banned is banned for good,

an aggregation of rules broken, and then the axe for good.

Same for opposing side players SJ, Plus, Lawn Gnome et al.

But in some ways I miss him as an more than typically eloquent foil.

He did make many of us, myself included think on the issues.

Sadly at the same to several malignant shills took similar positions,

and doing so watered down his opinions and positions with divisivness.

He announced his presence to me early on today, with the admonition

I would shortly complicit to his impending re-banishment.

But I have been working and didn't post much this afternoon.

So we never crossed swords or pens today.

I was curious to see how long before he was recognized.

ISP address, coupled to style I suspect.

It seems I am deemed an "Operative of TVF",

apparently so covert i didn't even know about it till informed of such.

I both find it amusing to be labled as such, and see know way to refute it...

I say it is not so, and am not believed... go figure!

Without discussing moderation, I suspect I'm more of a pet poster from one point of view

kept on to counter a returning set of opposing opinions, as long as I play nice.

I agree with Ferwert there is a real, valid and needed Democracy Movement in Thailand.

We disagree as to what percentage of that is co-opted into the service of Thaksin

the proto-despot of the day. I think the next 2-3 months should tell that tale too well.

Yes a judgment day, for Thaksin but also for those aligned with him.

When he falls how will their quest for democracy and the rule of law digress or progress?

And what of the cynical manipulators in their midst egging them on, not for democracy but for power?

Of course Ferwert was more gentleman than several remaining here in many ways,

and someone pretending to be even handed and gentlemanly is anything but,

such is the human condition; the fake smile as the knife hits your vitals.

Yes he have at least ONE abominably bad loser in our midst, yearning for revenge

at slights during arguments, and of their logic not standing up to scrutiny.

So I would have a preference to Ferwert's well spoken presence vs this un-banned,

but considerably lesser person, lurking like a highwayman under cover of darkness.

In any case TVF goes on and conditions and philosophies of the day will continute

to be discussed and beaten into mental plowshares, or just into the sludge.

Edited January 14, 2010 by animatic

[Jingthing]

It seems I am deemed an "Operative of TVF",

apparently so covert i didn't even know about it till informed of such.

Me too. All I want to know is where is the bleeding check? Not even Cheers beer and cold pizza. This outfit is cheep cheep cheep.

Edited January 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[animatic]

It seems I am deemed an "Operative of TVF",

apparently so covert i didn't even know about it till informed of such.

Me too. All I want to know is where is the bleeding check? Not even Cheers beer and cold pizza. This outfit is cheep cheep cheep.

Yes I could use some change for DTAC! LOL

Actually TVF bought some beers at Blues Factory,

so they are ok in my book till next time.

[Publicus]

Yeah, he was talking about the leader of a 'democracy movement' who can't get into a democratic country with either a crowbar or a visa. 

He also knows money doesn't do the trick in those environs either.  

His owing money to some Russian bosses might do the trick for everyone involved    

Edited January 14, 2010 by Publicus

[animatic]

No doubt Prem and Abhisit needed to talk as the end game comes into play.

An end-game which will finally show up the minority opinion you represent Animatic.

Electorally, your perspective and that of your "colleagues" is inconsequential.

Your persistent demonization of Mr. Thaksin will come to naught and will be shown as having had no effect the way you have hoped it would.

Sad isn't it!

Ah yes Ferwert you mean the minority of none-voting farangs who have opinions.

Well oddly enough many of these same minority people have full voting wives attached.

So maybe not as electorally inconsequential as blithely stated.

And if there is such lack of relevance in our little discussions of these topics of the day,

why does Thaksin's supporters and also some PR weenies, make such an effort here to

mold our opinions?

Thaksin isn't a demon, there is no quasi religiousness in my dislike of him returning to power.

Though the likes of dear Koo82 had fallen into a near ecstatic state about him last we saw.

It is purely a practical wariness of the consequences of his return based on observations of his past actions.

It is interesting to note that my discussions will have no effect, and yet, are countered regularly by WHOM??

Apparently by those who seem to fear my positions will be considered by others.

If what I say here means nothing, why do so many here sweat about it?

[soapier]

One this is for certain, you don't want to be in trouble with the Russians over money.

His owing money to some Russian bosses might do the trick for everyone involved    

A man of dwindling means

Sources say ex-PM Thaksin now has difficulty servicing debt to Gazprombank

The Nation

Published on January 15, 2010

Just how much money does Thaksin Shinawatra have now? Well-informed sources say the former prime minister might not have a lot left.

One source even speculated that his net worth could already have turned negative if his Bt76 billion now being frozen in Thailand is not taken into account.

In a recent interview with Times Online, Thaksin said he still had US$100 million (Bt3.3 billion) as his total net worth, trying to create an impression that he does not have any financial problems.

But sources say Thaksin is now having a difficult time servicing his debt owed to Gazprombank, a subsidiary of Gazprom of Russia. The Russian state owns more than 50 per cent in Gazprom, the energy firm that has branched out to become a global conglomerate.

Thaksin would like to rely on his connection with Gazprom to launch his investment in the energy sector in other countries, where he hopes to improve his political conditions. His interest in the oil and gas business in Cambodia is already widely known.

The exact amount of the loan he took from Gazprombank is not known, but it could be in the region of $1.5 billion, the sources believe.

Thaksin has used this loan to invest in Dubai in order to establish his status there as an honorary political refugee. Following the meltdown of Dubai, however, Thaksin has suffered heavy losses from his Dubai investment.

He also lost a huge amount of money from his portfolio investment in the aftermath of the collapse of Lehman Brothers in 2008.

Dubai World, a state-owned corporation, is seeking a delay of repayment of its debt amounting to $59 billion.

The sources say Thaksin's debt owed to Gazprombank is already overdue.

Thaksin needs big money to finance his lavish lifestyle and security protection.

One government source said Thaksin is on an aircraft three days a week, constantly changing his location to ensure personal safety.

The ex-premier has faced another big financial blow. The UK authorities have recently seized some $4 billion believed to belong to Thaksin under nominees' names, the sources said.

This amount was frozen in 2008, pending the beneficial owner(s) coming forward to declare ownership. But since nobody had come forward, the UK authorities quietly seized the amount for the state coffers.

If Thaksin were to lose Bt76 billion in his Thai assets-seizure case, his net worth could turn negative.

On February 26, the Supreme Court will rule whether he is guilty of corruption. If the court were to find him guilty, it would order the seizure of the entire Bt76 billion.

Thaksin is now fighting back fiercely. He will try to lobby the Supreme Court, bring down the Abhisit Vejjajiva government and ignite the red-shirt rallies in order to instigate a military intervention.

[Siripon]

Thaksin's best bet is to persuade Banharn and Newin's groups to vote against Apisit in a censure debate- Apisit couldn't dissolve the House in those circumstances and Pheua Thai could form an immediate government.

But it would cost Thaksin an awful lot of money and would the two betray Apisit?

The rift between Newin and Thaksin may have gone too deep.

Banharn only recently praised Apisit as a man of many talents who should remain PM for a long time.

But Banharn is not called the slippery eel for nothing and Newin's reputation for loyalty is not the highest in the land!

Still, I think they won't break ranks.

[geriatrickid]

Me thinks this "friction" person is sounding very much like a well "educated" and well paid "inflamer"...

Nope. It's not me.

Last time I looked, noting was inflamed on me though.

Once again good on you Thanong! In my estimation your right up there with Hans Christian Anderson

Hmmm.

Sometimes when you try too hard to be funny, it just doesn't work. (Yes, I would know.)

Umm, I thought he wrote a pretty good contribution and I enjoyed it. Everyone's a critic it seems. Certainly better than a baht bus critique

Gotta love the Nation. They rely on more sources than Heinz.

Classic line. Understated, but to the point. Good job.

[animatic]

Thaksin's best bet is to persuade Banharn and Newin's groups to vote against Apisit in a censure debate- Apisit couldn't dissolve the House in those circumstances and Pheua Thai could form an immediate government.

But it would cost Thaksin an awful lot of money and would the two betray Apisit?

The rift between Newin and Thaksin may have gone too deep.

Banharn only recently praised Apisit as a man of many talents who should remain PM for a long time.

But Banharn is not called the slippery eel for nothing and Newin's reputation for loyalty is not the highest in the land!

Still, I think they won't break ranks.

I think both guys are entertain offers, noting Thaksin's growing situational desperation,

but not likely to bite, especially as Thaksin's over all position is not just cash to lose in Thailand,

but apparently the vaunted international financial advisor has lost oodles of cash and investments world wide.

Seems the great investor and 'Financial Advisor To Nations', was just as blind to the coming

financial implosion as PPP was to it while they ran Thailand.

Kuhn Korn was commenting on market movements internationally in the papers,

and PPP were ignoring the comments, he got in the job and started to act.

Seems Thaksin was not directing his PPPupets to do anything because he wasn't looking himself.

Borrowed Gazprom to invest in Dubai...bad choices,

maybe this should be carved on his tomb someday.

[Davidusaf99]

Interesting to see that the Thailand/UAE agreement seems to coincide with reports that Thaksin is no longer welcome there, due to a string of defaults or money owed. It never amaze how people can forget such a simple but universal truth - What goes around, comes around.

[NCFC]

Well as in the past Ferwert has left the building.

But not until after, under the noom de plume of Friction

making people avidly discuss several points of the day.

I understand that once banned is banned for good,

an aggregation of rules broken, and then the axe for good.

Same for opposing side players SJ, Plus, Lawn Gnome et al.

But in some ways I miss him as an more than typically eloquent foil.

He did make many of us, myself included think on the issues.

Sadly at the same to several malignant shills took similar positions,

and doing so watered down his opinions and positions with divisivness.

He announced his presence to me early on today, with the admonition

I would shortly complicit to his impending re-banishment.

But I have been working and didn't post much this afternoon.

So we never crossed swords or pens today.

I was curious to see how long before he was recognized.

ISP address, coupled to style I suspect.

It seems I am deemed an "Operative of TVF",

apparently so covert i didn't even know about it till informed of such.

I both find it amusing to be labled as such, and see know way to refute it...

I say it is not so, and am not believed... go figure!

Without discussing moderation, I suspect I'm more of a pet poster from one point of view

kept on to counter a returning set of opposing opinions, as long as I play nice.

I agree with Ferwert there is a real, valid and needed Democracy Movement in Thailand.

We disagree as to what percentage of that is co-opted into the service of Thaksin

the proto-despot of the day. I think the next 2-3 months should tell that tale too well.

Yes a judgment day, for Thaksin but also for those aligned with him.

When he falls how will their quest for democracy and the rule of law digress or progress?

And what of the cynical manipulators in their midst egging them on, not for democracy but for power?

Of course Ferwert was more gentleman than several remaining here in many ways,

and someone pretending to be even handed and gentlemanly is anything but,

such is the human condition; the fake smile as the knife hits your vitals.

Yes he have at least ONE abominably bad loser in our midst, yearning for revenge

at slights during arguments, and of their logic not standing up to scrutiny.

So I would have a preference to Ferwert's well spoken presence vs this un-banned,

but considerably lesser person, lurking like a highwayman under cover of darkness.

In any case TVF goes on and conditions and philosophies of the day will continute

to be discussed and beaten into mental plowshares, or just into the sludge.

I came here, not to praise Caesar, but to bury him!

:-)

[animatic]

Not gleeful, but aware yesterday,

and in comparison to another's truly awful conduct,

Friction was a minor concern in the bigger picture.

A minority is anything less than 50% of an whole 100%,

but countries regularly run from minority interests, since;

not all residents are voters

and not all potential voters vote,

and not all are organized enough to win control.

So yes F. there is a minority running things in Thailand,

and Thaksin's party on it's best day was the closest to passing 50%...

but never did. So still a minority itself.

It was through bartering and alliance making that Thaksin got as far as he did.

That was then, this is now. He has lost the power to do so,

or others no longer believe he has the art to do it again.

Being in a minority and running the show is not unusual,

what is important is if that minority shows respect and cares for the majority properly.

If that were so dirtpoor of the south would have gotten as well as those in Issan.

This mever happened, Thaksin punished those who didn't vote for his interests.

In that regard Thaksin was clearly deficient, and that's more important

than the percentage of total population actually voting.

The fact that his coalition could no longer hold together,

is the main reason he no longer holds power.

Eels and weasles are strange bed partners,

but better than the politically dead.

Don't smell as bad either.

Edited January 15, 2010 by animatic

[webfact]

Thaksin's instruction for closing statement on asset seizure case

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has given his instruction on the drafting of the closing statement on his Bt76 billion in impounded assets, his legal adviser Noppadon Patama said on Friday.

Under his instruction, Thaksin wanted his defence team to fully outline pertinent facts related to the case, Noppadon said.

One of the key facts is the complete transfer of his wealth to his adult children before assuming office in 2001.

The closing statement will rigorously reiterate a rebuttal that Thaksin had no involvement in abusing policies to enrich himself or his family.

-- The Nation 2010-01-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[scorecard]

Thaksin's instruction for closing statement on asset seizure case

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has given his instruction on the drafting of the closing statement on his Bt76 billion in impounded assets, his legal adviser Noppadon Patama said on Friday.

Under his instruction, Thaksin wanted his defence team to fully outline pertinent facts related to the case, Noppadon said.

One of the key facts is the complete transfer of his wealth to his adult children before assuming office in 2001.

The closing statement will rigorously reiterate a rebuttal that Thaksin had no involvement in abusing policies to enrich himself or his family.

-- The Nation 2010-01-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

""One of the key facts is the complete transfer of his wealth to his adult children before assuming office in 2001."" Funny how this statement has been proven to be completely untrue years ago, but he keep son making the same claims. He seems to think all Thais are stupid and totally forgettfull.

""The closing statement will rigorously reiterate a rebuttal that Thaksin had no involvement in abusing policies to enrich himself or his family. "" Funny how there's a mountain of specific evidence proving the opposite is true. He seems to think all Thais are stupid and totally forgettfull.

He can grandstand as much as he likes, the facts are the facts.

And just wondering whether there will be a box of really really expensive doughnuts or pork dumplings dropped off to ensure the judges etc., have a nice morning tea break.

[animatic]

Thaksin's instruction for closing statement on asset seizure case

Ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra has given his instruction on the drafting of the closing statement on his Bt76 billion in impounded assets, his legal adviser Noppadon Patama said on Friday.

Under his instruction, Thaksin wanted his defence team to fully outline pertinent facts related to the case, Noppadon said.

One of the key facts is the complete transfer of his wealth to his adult children before assuming office in 2001.

The closing statement will rigorously reiterate a rebuttal that Thaksin had no involvement in abusing policies to enrich himself or his family.

-- The Nation 2010-01-15

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

""One of the key facts is the complete transfer of his wealth to his adult children before assuming office in 2001."" Funny how this statement has been proven to be completely untrue years ago, but he keep son making the same claims. He seems to think all Thais are stupid and totally forgettfull.

""The closing statement will rigorously reiterate a rebuttal that Thaksin had no involvement in abusing policies to enrich himself or his family. "" Funny how there's a mountain of specific evidence proving the opposite is true. He seems to think all Thais are stupid and totally forgettfull.

He can grandstand as much as he likes, the facts are the facts.

And just wondering whether there will be a box of really really expensive doughnuts or pork dumplings dropped off to ensure the judges etc., have a nice morning tea break.

If he sold to his grown children,

and then did policy maneuvers to make those companies worth much more,

then he very specifically did contracts for his family businesses,

same crime as signing for Potjamin to buy the land.

Amongst others no doubt involved.

How can he say his grown children are not his immediate family?

How can he have signing powers for front companies and bank accounts,

and not be in control of the funds?

And what else but the pertinent facts would he want defense council to outline?

And Noppadom is actually a lawyer, who is he talking too kindergarteners?

[Ricardo]

And just wondering whether there will be a box of really really expensive doughnuts or pork dumplings dropped off to ensure the judges etc., have a nice morning tea break.

'Hub of expensive lunch-boxes' , perhaps ?

[Dustybin]

I expect the court are far more ameniable to doughnuts and pork dumplings, than the prospect of 6" cold junta steel up their riggot.

Which would you prefer?

[Ricardo]

I expect the court are far more ameniable to doughnuts and pork dumplings, than the prospect of 6" cold junta steel up their riggot.

Which would you prefer?

I wonder which junta you're referring to ? Perhaps the one whose nominee-government handed-over power to an elected-government more than two years ago ? Do you then contend that they still exist as such ?