Disturbing Problem

[LivinLOS]

On Feb 18th of 2004 my soulmate died, she was the most important person in my life and I am still pretty shaken up about her loss.

Initially I of course dreamt of her a lot, mostly reassuring dreams. I have never made any temple visits as I am not a buddhist and am not religious at all.Over the last year and through some ups and down I have been able to deal with my own issues asnd grieve etc.

I am still close to her sister (who lives in Europe) and just had a call that has twisted me up a bit. She also has had a lot of dreams and dream communication with her sister.

On march 1st I moved from the house and home we shared to a new home in the same town, my sister in law has just called and explained a bad dream of last night. In many previous dreams Kim had explained that she was fine on the other side, felt good, was close to me and happy, she always was in or near our old home in the dreams. She told her sister that she had seen me with other girls (something not discussed with her sister but could be assumed) but was happy for me and all was fine. She stated she could be close to where we were and was at peace

Now she had a dream where her sister was saying to please help her, where had I gone ?? There are new people in the house and she cannot stay there, her sister was a bit shaken, and described that Kim says she is now lost and living in the forest / jungle, she is sick and has no one to take care, has no food or anyone to help etc. Having lived with Kim when she was sick it was extremely painful to hear.

Her solution is to go to the temple which I intend to do and to make offerings etc especially some food as this was specifically clearly said in the dream. I am totally unfamiliar with what should or shouldnt be said. When discussing with Kims sis she said I could explain to the monks where I now live. My current GF was listening to the whole conversation because it was a skype call on speaker, and when the conversation ended she was happy to say she would go temple with me but when I said about explaining where I now am and should I bring a monk here she says thats not the right thing to do, spirits should be allowed to depart. Of course I can see some self motive and possible discomfort around this for her but Kims comfort (even if this is just the stuff of dreams) means far far more to me.

Do monks act as a go between with the spirit world as mediums ?? I did not think that was really part of buddhist thinking but then I am ignorant to most of it.

Should I attempt to have a monk visit the old and new houses ??

I realize this is discussing issues such as 'spirit' and dreams which may not have true bearing but what would Buddhist advise to the situation described be.

All in all it has put me in a very bleak frame of mind feeling both all the painful memories as well as guilt at leaving the home we lived in.

[Teach]

Holy Jasper's I don't envy you an this one. If you are atheist or agnostic then perhaps these dreams are nothing more than your own guilty feelings haunting you for things you never said or did. Either way, though you may not be a believer it may lay to rest much that has not been resolved by inviting the monks to bless. If this notion has no repercussions then fine, if it allows you to sleep better go ahead. But you must set the terms of why you are doing this. To fullfil a final act of closure and respect your departed partners choice of religion. The present girlfriend should remain at a distance for this to bode well with the afterlife.

Good luck

T.

[LivinLOS]

I dont know really how to interpret it.. All I know is I have just had a conversation with my sis in law and now feel like my dead lovers spirit is not at peace.

To be honest its buggered with my head and knocked me a bit for six..

Is it acceptable / normal to draw maps of where I now live or should I get a monk to come here to know where it is, I dont know what is considered ok or possible to assist a buddhist in finding peace.

If I thought she was close to me and at peace it would certainly make me feel better (and I dont care what the current GF thinks on this matter).. Her sister was also obviously shaken, in the dream she asked her to let her live with her because she couldnt find me and had nowhere to rest but then Kim (my wife) had said she was too far away... My sister in law even mentioned she would rent a room or space for Kim to rest but thats plainly rediculous thinking with me here. The description and thought of her sick and alone with no where to rest is a tough thought.

I guess the only thing to do is go to the temple in the AM tomorrow and see if I can find someone who has enough english to understand me.. The only other thing is I have always found temple visits to be fairly a shallow passing of money and hope that it goes better than that.

[Teach]

I dont know really how to interpret it.. All I know is I have just had a conversation with my sis in law and now feel like my dead lovers spirit is not at peace.

To be honest its buggered with my head and knocked me a bit for six..

Is it acceptable / normal to draw maps of where I now live or should I get a monk to come here to know where it is, I dont know what is considered ok or possible to assist a buddhist in finding peace.

If I thought she was close to me and at peace it would certainly make me feel better (and I dont care what the current GF thinks on this matter).. Her sister was also obviously shaken, in the dream she asked her to let her live with her because she couldnt find me and had nowhere to rest but then Kim (my wife) had said she was too far away... My sister in law even mentioned she would rent a room or space for Kim to rest but thats plainly  rediculous thinking with me here. The description and thought of her sick and alone with no where to rest is a tough thought.

I guess the only thing to do is go to the temple in the AM tomorrow and see if I can find someone who has enough english to understand me.. The only other thing is I have always found temple visits to be fairly a shallow passing of money and hope that it goes better than that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This may come across as callous, and there is no intent but it has to be aired. Could your sis in law possibly be trying to replace your wife either emotionally or even for financial reasons. Are these dreams being put in your head by her or is your guilt self imposed.

T.

[camerata]

It seems like you were doing OK until the sister got into the picture. It's natural for you to dream a lot about your wife after an untimely death. It's also natural enough for the sister to have dreams about lost spirits etc since the family was heavily into this stuff (it's more like superstition or "popular Buddhism" than the established teachings of the Buddha).

It sounds like the sister has some unresolved issues or guilt about your wife, or for some reason hasn't got closure over the death yet. So now she's getting you involved.

I think you should ask yourself whether you really want to have monks do some kind of blessing for the sister's sake or for your own. If it's to keep the sister happy, and you don't do it the way she wants, she'll probably keep on having more unhappy dreams until you do. I don't think you want her transfering more guilt to you.

[LivinLOS]

The sister certainly doesnt want to involve herself in me or my life, she is happilly married (as happy as a TG gets in Europe) with a new child etc in Europe.. Theres nothing in the way of emotional or physical games being played. We always got on great and are great friends but she is like my sister.

As to unresolved guilt, I dont (think) I have any feelings of guilt (I know I used the word above but I dont have the words to express clearly) , I have no desire for a blessing on my behalf, to me a strange guy I dont know, dressing in orange robes, getting paid to say something I dont understand doesnt really do much for me.. I guess motivation would be respect for her beliefs and due to having an open mind.

It gets even wierder when (as per this post) you hear she died after it being hexed or predicted nearly to the date it was foretold.. For me I dont or didnt believe in these things.. She did.. I guess I just want to do what is 'right' for her beliefs.

Its more confusing as 'popular buddhism' as you point out seems to include many things that dont (to me as an outsider) come under what I believed Buddhism to be.. Ghosts, spells, witches, curses, lost spirits etc..

Just getting this call and the image of my angel, alone, sick, lost, with no support or family causes me anguish.. Without going into too many old details Kim was semi abandoned by her family / parents and didnt have anyone for support or love other than me and her sis, to feel like there might be something I am not doing right for her is unpleasant.

Edited April 28, 2005 by LivinLOS

[camerata]

It gets even wierder when (as per this  post) you hear she died after it being hexed or predicted nearly to the date it was foretold.. For me I dont or didnt believe in these things..

Fairly accurate predictions always seem pretty spooky but there are other plausible explanations. If a fortune teller makes enough predictions, by the law of averages he's going to get it right some of the time. And I think some of them are extraordinarily sensitive to other people's moods, body language and behaviour - enough to be aware perhaps of an illness in its early stages.

Its more confusing as 'popular buddhism' as you point out seems to include many things that dont (to me as an outsider) come under what I believed Buddhism to be.. Ghosts, spells, witches, curses, lost spirits etc..

Actually, most of it isn't really related to Buddhism, but people know that Buddhist monks - the serious ones - meditate with corpses, sleep in charnel grounds, etc, and come to no harm. So they believe that monks have special powers and amulets to combat the ghosts and spells. The serious monks, of course, would just tell people to meditate and practise dharma, like they do.

I think these ceremonies to bless places and buildings (my office had one this year) work on two levels. On one level they may be seen to placate unhappy spirits in the building, but on another they make the people in the building feel more comfortable.

Anyway, good luck in getting this ceremony done. It might be a good idea to take your girlfriend or someone else you know to translate for you at the temple.

Edited April 28, 2005 by camerata

[Abandon]

whereabouts are you roughly? Do you go to Bangkok much?

May be able to point you in a good (free) direction...

[LivinLOS]

Phuket (Patong)...

Went to the temple this morning, pretty much what I expected and feared, no ability to communicate myself the issues, few minutes generic blessing, lit a couple of incense, left the dontations of food and the orange wrapped buckets of stuff GF advised buying.. Left..

No additional comfort or idea.. As an non Buddhist what would I expect ??

Sister is coming back to Thailand as soon as her kids break for school summer holidays, once she is back in June / July will probably repeat.

[bina]

i am just now trying to understand an other aspect of thai (issan country)life;

three days ago one of our thai worker's father suddenly died; the first question all the 'bosses' asked is, does he want to go home? when i checked with him i was told no, he is upset, but doesnt want time off (he could get 7 days mourning time w/pay etc according to our jewish way) or go home if he wishes... he said he he will 'tam boon' in three years or so when he has money and the monks say the time fits

my (thai) best friend's brother died here in israel suddenly a few years ago , my friend's answer was the same.... will continue to work until monks and his mother decided they will do the funeral stuff-- very different from our rituals and reactions of immediate mourning (could it be your sis inlaw is only now catching up to her grief in this way???) my friend cried one day and then seemed to forget about it although i asked gently and often about his feelings etc....

grief and death things are so different from our/my way i;ve been raised.... its like the closure etc is different and sometimes lenghthy: if someone died due to illness or unknown cause etc they may be cremated years later like my friend's brother (will be done next year 4 yrs from his death of unknown cause) , until now my friend has not allowed himself to grieve, he is waiting for the funeral etc.(body in temple at moment).... the monks have a lot to say about this all, when to do tam boon, what has to be done

there is always the option of the, dont know how to call it without sounding idiotic, but ... witchdoctor type , many villages have someone who does this stuff....

perhaps you have to do the tam boon route if it hasnt been done yet

what i'm saying is, thai dont seem to have a formulated method of dealing with death and grief as we do for good or bad, there are lots of gray areas from the animism dealing with ghosts etc and there seem to be many options for dealing with all these things, not just one.... so you may have to ask an older thai person for what they would do in this situation, if it will put your feelings to rest.... even if you dont really believe in it it cant hurt, it gives you a way to put things in place the way your wife might handle it

hope this makes sense, hard to explain on a keyboard

[Abandon]

To understand a bit more about merit making at temples, from both thai and western perspective :

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29463

[Gohonzon]

Don't know if this helps?

"Saito: Life after death is in a state of latency; it has lost all activity. Accordingly, it would seem to follow that the lives of those who have died could not function in any active capacity.

Suda: That's indeed so. There are religions that solicit money from their adherents by telling them, for example, that the spirit of their ancestor wants this or that. That is reprehensible.

Endo: Yes. But there are many people who have reported actually hearing the voice of a deceased person or seeing a ghost. It would seem that we cannot discount all such accounts as illusions or hoaxes.

Ikeda: President Toda once told someone who thought they had heard the voice of a dead person: 'Living people have the Ten Worlds in their life. So it may happen that someone will sense the 'life wavelength' of someone who has died and whose life has become one with the universe. I think that you sensed this as audible words'.

In other words, if your own life force is weak, you can be affected by 'life wavelengths' from beyond in the same way as a radio or television picks up a broadcast. And people only sense these voices individually. President Toda pointed out to the person that if he developed his life force through strong faith, then the 'life wavelength' of his own world of Buddhahood would instead be broadcast out, and bring the deceased person peace and repose.

He further declared, 'Up to now you were deceived into thinking that your deceased wife or your deceased ancestors were spirits. You must not be fooled by such deceptions. If this were in fact the case then the whole world would be full of ghosts and it would be so crowded you could not move' ."

http://etherbods.com/sutra/wisdom/wisdom35.shtml