Going Back To Thailand After Living In Usa Illegally

[ryukn]

Hi friends, I'd like to share my situation with you and hopefully gain some advice and insights.

I was born in Thailand and at the age of 6, my family came to the United States on a tourist visa. We overstayed, living here undocumented for over 15 years. I am now 1 year away from completing my bachelors degree. Because of my status, I am unable to work in the US. I have accumulated much debt due to mostly school fees and living expenses. This leaves me no choice but to go somewhere where I am able to make a living and support myself.

I have decided that if after 1 year from now, the DREAM act (a law that would give a path to citizenship for people like me living in the US) does not pass, I would go back to my home country of Thailand. My plan is to live and work in Thailand temporarily, then immigrate to another english speaking country. I am considering Canada, Australia, New Zealand, etc. Oh, I should mention that I able to speak Thai at a very basic level, and cannot read or write.

I am worried that if I return to Thailand, I will be forced to serve in the military. I do not know much about this nor have I done the research, but does anyone know if this would be the case? Is there some kind of waiver for someone like me? I am also concerned about living and working in a country where I am not familiar with the language and culture. I imagine that the culture shock would be severe and that I would have a very difficult time doing the most basic things. Any insights and experiences shared on this would be greatly appreciated.

In addition to my Bacherlos of Arts in Business Administration w/ a concentration in Information Systems & Decision Science, I also have attained a Microsoft certification in SQL Server 2008 for Business Intelligence development and maintenance. Moreover, I have done a number of unpaid internships while in school, giving me experience in this field. This is actually considered well qualified for work in the US, but I am again concerned that with my inability to speak/read/write in Thai, it would not be enough to find suitable employment.

Thank you for taking the time to read this post. Any information you could contribute to me would be greatly appreciated.

[PeaceBlondie]

Canada. My friend was an illegal US resident from South China over five years illegally. Moved to Canada without sponsor; citizen 5 years later.

[Jingthing]

You would be likely welcome in Canada and Australia based on your youth and education. I can see the tricky part is how they will look at your legal status in the US and whether they will hold it against you. You are right to be concerned about military service in Thailand. If you do come here, of course you can teach English to at least survive. I hope you can become American if that is what you want; you didn't make those immigration choices as a child. If it turns out your concerns about Thai military service turn out to be real and you can't approach the other countries from the US for whatever reason, maybe you could move temporarily to yet another country to teach English for awhile while you wait for the US law to change or to apply to other countries. For example, Korea, China, Japan, Brazil, etc. Maybe that is a bad idea though if the US law changes, they would have expected you to stay in the US. Another idea, have you spoken to an immigration lawyer in the US?

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

I have spoke to an immigration lawyer, although his area is mainly with immigration within the US and not to other countries. what he told me is that if I wanted to immigrate to another country, say Canada or Australia, I would first need to go back to Thailand. I cannot go directly from USA to Canada. If there are ways around this, I would certainly take that route. Still doing research on this.

Regarding the military duty, would I be unable to work or immigrate out of Thailand until it is served? how does this work? and are there any options for me to bypass this? I would not think they want someone who cannot speak or read Thai to serve in the military. It doesn't make sense to me.

[Jingthing]

A lot of things don't make sense in Thailand, the US, anywhere. The law is the law. If you are coming back to Thailand as a Thai citizen you are Thai and I would assume subject to the same laws as all Thais. You are going to have to do some research about this to determine your real risk of being required to serve.

It just occurs to me you can't possibly have a US passport, can you? So in that case, of course you can't travel. I assume the Thai embassy can set you up with a document to come to Thailand. Sorry for the stupid suggestion above to go to another country.

Another idea, if you think there is a chance the US will change for you in a year or two, can you hold out a little longer? Maybe continue your education?

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

I do believe that the US will eventually pass the DREAM act, just because there are so many people like me living here, and the government wants to keep us. I know that president Obama supports the bill, but this bill has been shot down before in the past. There are many opponents who argue that it rewards illegal immigrants with amnesty and would encourage more illegal immigration. Also, America has so many problems right now that have greater priority over immigration reform (health care, economy, education, the war, environmental issues, etc.)

unfortunately holding out for this bill to pass won't be an option for me. I've lived as an illegal alien for over fifteen years and made the best of it, but enough is enough. Sometimes I just feel like a criminal on the loose here. I do not have the financial resources to stay in the US let alone to pursue further education. I'll go anywhere where I can work

[WarpSpeed]

I do believe that the US will eventually pass the DREAM act, just because there are so many people like me living here, and the government wants to keep us. I know that president Obama supports the bill, but this bill has been shot down before in the past. There are many opponents who argue that it rewards illegal immigrants with amnesty and would encourage more illegal immigration. Also, America has so many problems right now that have greater priority over immigration reform (health care, economy, education, the war, environmental issues, etc.)

unfortunately holding out for this bill to pass won't be an option for me. I've lived as an illegal alien for over fifteen years and made the best of it, but enough is enough. Sometimes I just feel like a criminal on the loose here. I do not have the financial resources to stay in the US let alone to pursue further education. I'll go anywhere where I can work

Monkhood in Thailand to avoid military service but in terms of the US there have a been a number of amnesties granted over the past several years to illegals, why didn't you take advantage of one of those?? I was dating a Chinese lady just before I came here who stupidly missed out on that by a couple of months.. *edit* temporary monkhood..

Your chances are better to seek out US citizenship from where you are seek out an experienced Immigration attorney first of all leaving these days without notice is nearly impossible and secondly it wil blemish you indefinitely if you ever intend to return.. it is also likely you wil find after leaving that you will wish to return as teh prospects for your future are far greater there..

Edited January 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[Jingthing]

It's hard to say. If INS becomes aware of this case, they may just deport. It happens everyday. It must be a very painful situation.

As far as I am concerned someone like the OP is more American than Thai and should have the choice. I agree leaving will probably hurt any future chances of gaining US citizenship.

Maybe you can talk to a few other immigration lawyers about the idea of fighting to stay in the US, before you do anything drastic. Sometimes lawyers will talk to people free for the first meeting where they determine whether they can help you.

As far as your student loan debt, yes you are stuck with that if you stay in the US, but they can't get blood out of a stone. If you ever can start working there, a payment plan can usually be negotiated.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

i am not familiar with the amnesties you are referring to that has helped illegals, maybe you can expand on this.

My family has worked with two attorneys and they have both said the same thing in my case. either wait until the dream act passes, or marry a US citizen. those are the only two options for me to adjust my status.

You are right in that I am more American than Thai. If it were up to me, I would certainly stay in the US and work here. Being a permanent resident here is my dream.

Unfortunately I don't have the finances to stay here any longer, if I keep waiting and waiting, I will be homeless before the law changes. In addition, I have debt I need to pay off. This is the reason why I am seeking this option of moving back to Thailand... It is a last resort, but really, it has come to this.

[Jingthing]

I also am not aware of any current amnesties, so I agree with you there. It sounds like you have pursued the options of staying in the US, and they aren't there for you. I assume you don't have a passport of any kind, so I would suppose the next step is to contact the Thai embassy in Washington about getting a travel document. It sounds more pleasant but probably more expensive to handle your exit that way if it is possible rather then being arrested and deported. Hopefully, we can keep this thread active a little while longer in case others have better ideas. Another idea that occurred to me was since you have little to lose now, would it hurt to approach some other embassies and ask them if they can help you immigrate legally? Canada and Australia obviously but maybe some other ideas like Ireland or the Netherlands.

As far as Thai military service, I assume you know that not all Thai young men are required to do this. So even if you wouldn't be exempt due to your language limitations, you might not have to serve anyway. It's too bad you don't write Thai because you would probably get better info on that issue on a Thai language forum.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

I said in the past several years, you have been there since you were 6, you were plenty old enough when these were offered in early 2000 you must have been in college possibly a little bit younger but old enough to understand when they were announced on TV and widely publicized.

Here's your situation in a nut shell.. You are already in violation of the law for many years now.. You takes your chances and pays your dues at this point as it comes down to deportation on any level...Either you give up and leave now willingly or take a chance of not being caught and find work under the table, it's easier there then anywhere in the world.. If you get found out what have you lost?? You get a free trip back to Thailand and begin a new but if you make it to your goals your set the penalty is the same either way honestly.. So, it's a gamble but it isn't throwing in the towel..Getting a bit personal here but this is all personal anyway.. Your family has been there for all of these years and they are not in a position to help you?? What have they been doing for a living all of these years?? Consider doing that or something related for any sort of income it doesn't have to be what your trained for at the moment get something to sustain yourself.

I have all your problems on this end (except the illegal part) with none of your opportunities, I am itching to get back there and make some real money, I'm almost envious.. Family obligations preventing that at the moment..

I'm curious why your post count is only 2 when you've had four or five in this thread alone, including the OP?

Edited January 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[nakachalet]

ryukn

may i ask you a few questions pls?

1--if you are an undoc alien, how do you secure loan--you have no valid soc sec number?

2--how could you filter through college(s), when you have to present valid soc sec card or even birth certificate and such at registration?

3--when you obtained your driver license, what sort of doc did you show them, pls?

i have several other questions but they may not be of any interest to most thaivisa readers, so i'll refrain from asking.

thx for enlightening us.

[WarpSpeed]

ryukn

may i ask you a few questions pls?

1--if you are an undoc alien, how do you secure loan--you have no valid soc sec number?

2--how could you filter through college(s), when you have to present valid soc sec card or even birth certificate and such at registration?

3--when you obtained your driver license, what sort of doc did you show them, pls?

i have several other questions but they may not be of any interest to most thaivisa readers, so i'll refrain from asking.

thx for enlightening us.

Yes, I had some of those same questions burning at me..Especially #1 but all are valid....

[thaitot]

This is not what you are going to want to Hear.

1) Running from your financial promises to the government of the USA that has provided for you.

Yes, I AM A TAX PAYER. I hope immigration deals with you

2) Running from your Thai Military duties.

I just suggest you keep running,this is what you do best .

3) If you are low on funds now,Thailand is going to be tough with no Thai language skills.

Get a Lawyer in the same great country who has paid for your education and take

your shots like a man. You are not 6 anymore.

Running will tire you and you will never have roots.

The older you get the more this situation will effect your future plans,where ever you decide to go.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the best.

Good luck.

Where is your support system that has been in place until now?

There are allot of things missing from this thread.

[ryukn]

WarpSpeed,

I was in middle school in 2000 and do not recall hearing anything about amnesty then. Although at that time I really wasn't aware of my situation as I thought I was just a regular American student with a funny name. If there really was something offered to benefit me, then my parents must have not been paying attention to the news... and that sucks.

For about the past 10 years all I have been doing is working under the table to sustain a living and put myself through college. It is very unlikely that I will get caught unless I commit a crime. My family has been doing the same thing and it really saddens me to see them slave for so long. My dad has an MBA and worked in a bank back in Thailand... now he washes dishes. My mom was a professor and now she also washes dishes. If I continue to live in America like this, then nothing will change. However if I return to Thailand, find work, and perhaps eventually immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand, I could begin to pay off my debts and support myself and my family.

That is my mindset right now, but I do appreciate your point of view. Also, I don't know why my post count is 2. I made this account a long time ago but never posted in the forums until now. Maybe the system is buggy.

Nakachalet,

Please go ahead and ask me the questions, i am more than happy to answer them.

I have a social security card and number, but it says "not valid for employment" on the face of the card. I do not know how I obtained this card, I think my parents took care of it when I came here. Most people in my situation do not have a SSN because they came into the US illegally (i.e. crossing the boarder). I came legally on a tourist visa and overstayed. I believe this is why I have a social security card. I used this number to get a bank account and credit card. But I could not use this to get any financial aid or student loans of that type.

Now I don't know how it is for other states, but in California, you do need to have legal status to attend college. I used my social security number on the application, but I believe you can leave it blank. There is also another field for residency status. Citizen/Permanent Resident/International Student/Other. I selected Other. There is even a bill called the AB-540 that allows undocumented students who have graduated from high school in California to pay the in-state tuition fees. Only a handful of states have this type of program, which is very sad because many undocumented students cannot afford the outrageous non-resident fees.

Lastly, I don't have a drivers license. Although I think some states like New Mexico and Washington do not require any proof of legal presence to get a drivers license.

[Tywais]

I'm curious why your post count is only 2 when you've had four or five in this thread alone, including the OP?

The Thaivisa database got corrupted this afternoon and is being restored from backup and post counts need re-indexed. It's a topic in forum support.

[Jingthing]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

This is not what you are going to want to Hear.

1) Running from your financial promises to the government of the USA that has provided for you.

Yes, I AM A TAX PAYER. I hope immigration deals with you

2) Running from your Thai Military duties.

I just suggest you keep running,this is what you do best .

3) If you are low on funds now,Thailand is going to be tough with no Thai language skills.

Get a Lawyer in the same great country who has paid for your education and take

your shots like a man. You are not 6 anymore.

Running will tire you and you will never have roots.

The older you get the more this situation will effect your future plans,where ever you decide to go.

Sometimes the hardest thing to do is the best.

Good luck.

Where is your support system that has been in place until now?

There are allot of things missing from this thread.

I don't understand what you mean by "Running from your financial promises to the government of the USA." All I want is to work in the US and pay taxes like a regular person. If you are talking about my debt, I have no intentions of running away from that. I am actually trying to find ways of repaying it all back.

I don't feel like I am running away from anything by returning to my country of citizenship. It is staying in America that makes me feel like a fugitive. My family has worked with two lawyers and they have said the same thing... get married to a citizen, or wait for dream act to pass.

Edited January 24, 2010 by ryukn

[Jingthing]

You would be more likely to pay back the loans with a US wage job than a job you can get in Thailand. The US has already heavily invested in you for your entire education and now that you are ready to be productive, you will probably get thrown out. Its really a shame, I am sorry as an American this is happening to you.

If you are heading to Thailand, I think you will be employable. At worst you can start as an English teacher with an unusual background and then after some time you can become fluent in Thai and probably work in your real field.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Thank you for your compassion. You are right, I did not choose to break the law and overstay my visa... this whole situation was out of my hands and I have tried to make the best of it. The US realizes that there are many people like me in the country right now... young educated adults with no criminal history. And of course they do not want to throw us out... but because we are here illegally, there is much debate over how to handle it. Like many others, the country is split in half on this issue. I think racism plays a big role... many people associate illegals with Mexicans.

You mentioned that not all thai men have to enlist in the military. Would you happen to know the details on this? I have some extended family back in Thailand... I will be contacting them to see if they can find out for me. I'm also going to contact the thai consulate here in the US.

As for enlisting in the US Military... that is not possible. They CURRENTLY accept only permanent residents and citizens.

[WarpSpeed]

WarpSpeed,

I was in middle school in 2000 and do not recall hearing anything about amnesty then. Although at that time I really wasn't aware of my situation as I thought I was just a regular American student with a funny name. If there really was something offered to benefit me, then my parents must have not been paying attention to the news... and that sucks.

For about the past 10 years all I have been doing is working under the table to sustain a living and put myself through college. It is very unlikely that I will get caught unless I commit a crime. My family has been doing the same thing and it really saddens me to see them slave for so long. My dad has an MBA and worked in a bank back in Thailand... now he washes dishes. My mom was a professor and now she also washes dishes. If I continue to live in America like this, then nothing will change. However if I return to Thailand, find work, and perhaps eventually immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand, I could begin to pay off my debts and support myself and my family.

That is my mindset right now, but I do appreciate your point of view. Also, I don't know why my post count is 2. I made this account a long time ago but never posted in the forums until now. Maybe the system is buggy.

I'm sorry to say but your mind set is based on misconceptions, the average dishwasher in the States still makes more with more benefits then many Thais here with Bachelors degrees and they are fluent in their native language speaking, reading and writing..

Believe me when I tell you it would be a big mistake on your part with no one to fall back on ending up to be more burden on your family..

As for those amnesty programs, I was under the impression you would have been older but still they were some time around 2001, 2002 as I was dating a Chinese lady shortly after that and she had just missed the deadline to file which was like 18 months or something..It was those amnesty programs that sparked all of the current debate about rewarding aliens so they were discontinued in their initial formats...It was also about that time that this new "immigrant lottery" was instituted as an alternative program though it does not cover current illegals to my knowledge only new immigrants..

My thinking you are trying to jump to the head of the line and you need to slow down and focus more on putting your head down and solving your current issues where you are as that has far more promise for you and your families future though it may be on a perceptively slower time frame in the long run it will be much quicker as you'll be working on it with far less uncertainties..

I will throw out one more confusing caveat and that is that you do have a quality American education based on what you are saying with some Thai and good English which should be considered "Native". Therefore there is a good chance for you to gain a relatively good position here that would pay you much better then the average Thai in the same position, but mostly I'm thinking teaching, but as you gain more Thai other doors may open..But again it's all a lottery of uncertainties but with little hope of ever getting back into the States to see your family and them not being able to leave either for any visits, tough choice... *edit* I take it back, I don't envy you your plight..

Overstays of any kind but especially the length of yours are an almost certain DQ on visa applications..Regardless of your situation and lack of control over it previously they have a pretty strict mostly zero tolerance policy on that issue..

Edited January 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

I'm curious why your post count is only 2 when you've had four or five in this thread alone, including the OP?

The Thaivisa database got corrupted this afternoon and is being restored from backup and post counts need re-indexed. It's a topic in forum support.

Ok thank you...

[WarpSpeed]

That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Not necessarily, with his education (assuming he is a he) he might get a stateside posting working computers or something very possibly and he could find out really prior to enlisting by speaking to a recruiter (without mentioning the illegal part initially that is)..

Edited January 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

You would be more likely to pay back the loans with a US wage job than a job you can get in Thailand. The US has already heavily invested in you for your entire education and now that you are ready to be productive, you will probably get thrown out. Its really a shame, I am sorry as an American this is happening to you.

If you are heading to Thailand, I think you will be employable. At worst you can start as an English teacher with an unusual background and then after some time you can become fluent in Thai and probably work in your real field.

Ditto my post while you were posting it seems..

[Jingthing]

That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Not necessarily, with his education (assuming he is a he) he might get a stateside posting working computers or something very possibly and he could find out really prior to enlisting by speaking to a recruiter (without mentioning the illegal part initially that is)..

The OP says he knows he is not eligible for this program. He is right.

The military does not allow illegal immigrants to enlist, and that policy would not change, officers said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/15/us/15immig.html

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

Both are not correct. I don't know where he got his information but that has been one of the main paths taken for many new immigrants who, have recently gotten their citizenship, there have been stories all over the news about it and how many immigrants are there earning their citizenship..

With the advent of drones and other such technologies many technicians never see a battle field if they are college educated in similar technologies, most are there to gain the college tuition to advance to those positions or post service education but he is going in with those skills. In fact it is possible he can get officer training with his education and never be a battle grunt..

[Jingthing]

He is not eligible for service in the US army as an illegal immigrant.

[WarpSpeed]

ok..whatever...It ain't that important to me be right...

I stand corrected, they are green card holders not illegals per se. What I was referring to ironically is part of the proposed DREAM act..

Edited January 24, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[ryukn]

are there opportunities for someone like me to work with an American company with offices in Thailand, where my lack of knowledge of the Thai language would not be much of an issue?

[Jingthing]

are there opportunities for someone like me to work with an American company with offices in Thailand, where my lack of knowledge of the Thai language would not be much of an issue?

You could look up jobs requiring fluent English and Thai nationality, but of course Thai language would be assumed. The employment situation is probably BETTER here than in the US right now, but of course the wage levels are lower but so is the cost of living.

BTW, some info about the Dream Act. What are they waiting for to pass it?

http://www.dreamact2009.com/

Have you heard anything about the chance it will pass in 2010? If I were you, I think I would be tempted to stay under the radar for at least another year to see if it passes.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing