Going Back To Thailand After Living In Usa Illegally

[bobsaigon]

I assume you already know that if you leave the US, you will be barred from re-entry for a period of ten years. I also assume that you have a valid Thai passport, otherwise you could not travel internationally.

This year or next, Mr. Obama's promises of immigration reform are likely to produce some developments, and since the focus will be on legalizing the 12 million illegals already in the US, I really think you should hold out till the laws change.

The legal advice you got was correct- to remain in the US, the only choices at the moment are to either wait for immigration reform or marry an American citizen. In my opinion, returning to Thailand is not a viable option, unless you are sure that you'll be happy living there permanently, or you're fairly certain you'll be able to leave Thailand in future to migrate to Australia or Canada.

Edited January 24, 2010 by bobsaigon

[ryukn]

check out: http://dreamact.info/

many people are confident that it will pass in 2010 because democrats are in power and have the majority. like i mentioned before, I have 1 year left before I graduate from college... so i will be sticking around until the end of 2010. this bill has been shot down before in the past. the country is just too divided on issues like this.

there are a lot of higher priority items that the Obama administration must address before handling immigration reform. but i do believe that it will pass eventually... but who knows when.

[ryukn]

I assume you already know that if you leave the US, you will be barred from re-entry for a period of ten years. I also assume that you have a valid Thai passport, otherwise you could not travel internationally.

This year or next, Mr. Obama's promises of immigration reform are likely to produce some developments, and since the focus will be on legalizing the 12 million illegals already in the US, I really think you should hold out till the laws change.

The legal advice you got was correct- to remain in the US, the only choices at the moment are to either wait for immigration reform or marry an American citizen. In my opinion, returning to Thailand is not a viable option, unless you are sure that (a) you'll be happy living there permanently, or ( you're fairly certain you'll be able to leave Thailand in future to migrate to Australia or Canada.

yes, i have a valid Thai passport and i am aware of the 10 year ban. I will certainly be sticking around for one more year, but after that I have to make this choice.

my plan wasn't to live in Thailand permanently, but to immigrate to another English speaking country. I am trying to determine now if this is a reality. The obstacles I see right now is the military duty that I may be forced to serve, and also the illegal presence here in the US that could affect my visa to other countries. can anyone confirm this?

Edited January 24, 2010 by ryukn

[Jingthing]

You are right Obama is under pressure right now to focus solely on the economy. Immigration reform might be seen as too liberal to pass before the Nov 2010 elections. However, it still might happen.

[Jingthing]

I think if you do come to Thailand when you apply to Canada or Australia they will likely see you as a Thai national with unusually good English skills, which is a big plus for your chances. Both countries seem to have a point system based on your desirability and you would likely score rather well. There is plenty of info on the web about their programs. However, they will never promise you anything and there is always the chance when you come to Thailand, you will be stuck here. Didn't know you have a Thai passport, that's good. If you contact other countries while you are in the US it would come out you are living in the US illegally and I can't imagine they would think favorably about that.

Another idea, with fluent English, a tech education, and a Thai passport, maybe moving to Singapore (at least to work) would be better than Thailand for you at least to start. Higher pay levels of course, English speaking, and less culture shock.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[ryukn]

I think if you do come to Thailand when you apply to Canada or Australia they will likely see you as a Thai national with unusually good English skills, which is a big plus for your chances. Both countries seem to have a point system based on your desirability and you would likely score rather well. There is plenty of info on the web about their programs. However, they will never promise you anything and there is always the chance when you come to Thailand, you will be stuck here. Didn't know you have a Thai passport, that's good. If you contact other countries while you are in the US it would come out you are living in the US illegally and I can't imagine they would think favorably about that.

Another idea, with fluent English, a tech education, and a Thai passport, maybe moving to Singapore (at least to work) would be better than Thailand for you at least to start. Higher pay levels of course, English speaking, and less culture shock.

hmm... how would that work? do i have to get a visa for Singapore?

[Jingthing]

Singapore has a huge expat work force. Most are more skilled than you though. Best to check out the Singapore specific expat sites for more info. Its actually an exciting city these days for young people. I was more thinking if you start looking for jobs in Thailand you may as well also look at Singapore. I think if you got a job offer there, a visa could be worked out. I don't think Thai nationals need a visa to travel to Singapore but working there would be different.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[geriatrickid]

I think the OP is in a great position, considering the circumstances. He has the benefit of a good education and US experience. Foreign multinationals will be predisposed to the OP over an expat 9 times out of 10. It's a no brainer in the sense that he would cost less and have no visa problems. In that regard, I anticipate that while tough going at first, his job prospects are much better than the typical Thai or expat he would be competing against, once he upgrades his language skills.

In respect to the required military service, as critical as I am of the Thai military, at times they do have common sense. If he enrols at a Thai university to enhance his language skills and then enrols in the Thai officers training program he will have addressed two concerns at once. Enrolment in the officer training program relieves one of having to do military service in an active unit. The Thai military usually uses educated conscripts for jobs requiring skills. If he served he would most likely get a cushy desk job in some HQ. This then raises the issue of whether or not he would even be conscripted. You have to be registered and then you have to be called and then you have to have your ball drawn. One of my friends while eligible for conscription avoided it because he didn't get the coloured ball. Another one bought his way out. The advantage of the officer training program is that it boosts job prospects because a jg officer rank on a cv certainly looks better than a general service rank.

I think it is a big risk to try and hold out for the anticipated legislation as the US Congress and the economy is not in the right frame of mind to pass it. That's just my opinion. Leaving the USA on your own terms is much better than getting deported and the whole list of problems a deportation brings.

Don't assume that it will be easier to enter Canada. The Immigration Canada website has a list of desired job skills that facilitate consideration. Immigration is skewed to "family" reunification and is heavily influenced by the activities of various ethnic groups. Due to the Haitian situation, the pressure is on the Canadian government to give priority to Haitians and this means that alot of people will get bumped down the list in favour of a large number of illiterate unskilled people that will immediately join the welfare rolls. As such, I believe that if the OP plays by the rules, he stands a better chance of obtaining entry into the USA than Canada.

I know it is a tough decision to make, but the OP has alot going for him, the chief reason being is that he is trying to plan. Most illegal immigrants deal with the situation once they are arrested.

He is not eligible for service in the US army as an illegal immigrant.

I disagree. Anyone can join the US military subject to screening. You do not have to be a citizen. The US had a program that fastracked military veterans to citizenship. I don't think it has been stopped.

Edited January 24, 2010 by geriatrickid

[ericthai]

WarpSpeed,

I was in middle school in 2000 and do not recall hearing anything about amnesty then. Although at that time I really wasn't aware of my situation as I thought I was just a regular American student with a funny name. If there really was something offered to benefit me, then my parents must have not been paying attention to the news... and that sucks.

For about the past 10 years all I have been doing is working under the table to sustain a living and put myself through college. It is very unlikely that I will get caught unless I commit a crime. My family has been doing the same thing and it really saddens me to see them slave for so long. My dad has an MBA and worked in a bank back in Thailand... now he washes dishes. My mom was a professor and now she also washes dishes. If I continue to live in America like this, then nothing will change. However if I return to Thailand, find work, and perhaps eventually immigrate to Australia/Canada/New Zealand, I could begin to pay off my debts and support myself and my family.

That is my mindset right now, but I do appreciate your point of view. Also, I don't know why my post count is 2. I made this account a long time ago but never posted in the forums until now. Maybe the system is buggy.

I'm sorry to say but your mind set is based on misconceptions, the average dishwasher in the States still makes more with more benefits then many Thais here with Bachelors degrees and they are fluent in their native language speaking, reading and writing..

Believe me when I tell you it would be a big mistake on your part with no one to fall back on ending up to be more burden on your family..

As for those amnesty programs, I was under the impression you would have been older but still they were some time around 2001, 2002 as I was dating a Chinese lady shortly after that and she had just missed the deadline to file which was like 18 months or something..It was those amnesty programs that sparked all of the current debate about rewarding aliens so they were discontinued in their initial formats...It was also about that time that this new "immigrant lottery" was instituted as an alternative program though it does not cover current illegals to my knowledge only new immigrants..

My thinking you are trying to jump to the head of the line and you need to slow down and focus more on putting your head down and solving your current issues where you are as that has far more promise for you and your families future though it may be on a perceptively slower time frame in the long run it will be much quicker as you'll be working on it with far less uncertainties..

I will throw out one more confusing caveat and that is that you do have a quality American education based on what you are saying with some Thai and good English which should be considered "Native". Therefore there is a good chance for you to gain a relatively good position here that would pay you much better then the average Thai in the same position, but mostly I'm thinking teaching, but as you gain more Thai other doors may open..But again it's all a lottery of uncertainties but with little hope of ever getting back into the States to see your family and them not being able to leave either for any visits, tough choice... *edit* I take it back, I don't envy you your plight..

Overstays of any kind but especially the length of yours are an almost certain DQ on visa applications..Regardless of your situation and lack of control over it previously they have a pretty strict mostly zero tolerance policy on that issue..

Just one thing here, you are saying the average dishwasher makes more in the US than what a thai makes in Thailand, yes this is true for the average dishwasher, but not for an illegal immigrant that does not get paid the same wages and no benefits.

This is a tuff one.

ryukn as for the military, it is true that ever male needs enlist in the army at age 18 and then from age 21 to 30 they may be required to have active duty for 2 years. However this is one thing you can do, you can volunteer and since you have a bachelor degree you will only sever 6 months. The thing is when you volunteer you will serve between 6 months and 18 months depending on your education. One of my thai friends did this. This is one choice, the other is take your chances. Here is what happens each year the army decides how many men they need, then they do a call up for everyone enlisted. Then they have a ballot if you get a red ballot you get active duty if you get black then you are out.

I hope this helps you a little... do you have family in Thailand?

Edited January 24, 2010 by ericthai

[Jingthing]

I disagree. Anyone can join the US military subject to screening. You do not have to be a citizen. The US had a program that fastracked military veterans to citizenship. I don't think it has been stopped.

The link I supplied in Post 25 clearly shows you are wrong. Illegal immigrants NOT eligible. Period.

I agree the OP has a great hope to have a decent life in Thailand. clearly he would rather stay where he grew up. Its definitely a tough situation.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Jingthing

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

Maybe someone on the forum could provide him info on setting up a website business. Is it possible to use his education and training on line to earn a living? That could work from most any place.

[moe666]

Even though the OP has been in the USA he is a Thai citizen and is still subject to the draft even though he hasn't been in Thailand physically, he could recieve greetings you have been drafted.

[dave_boo]

Just one thing here, you are saying the average dishwasher makes more in the US than what a thai makes in Thailand, yes this is true for the average dishwasher, but not for an illegal immigrant that does not get paid the same wages and no benefits. 

This is a tuff one.

ryukn as for the military, it is true that ever male needs enlist in the army at age 18 and then from age 21 to 30 they may be required to have active duty for 2 years. However this is one thing you can do, you can volunteer and since you have a bachelor degree you will only sever 6 months. The thing is when you volunteer you will serve between 6 months and 18 months depending on your education. One of my thai friends did this. This is one choice, the other is take your chances. Here is what happens each year the army decides how many men they need, then they do a call up for everyone enlisted. Then they have a ballot if you get a red ballot you get active duty if you get black then you are out.

I hope this helps you a little... do you have family in Thailand?

Think about what you posted for a second.....

Since his parents work in my field I have first hand knowledge of what food service personnel make.  And depending on the part of the country you'd probably be surprised at how much they make, regardless of their immigration status.  Just to illustrate my point; how many Thais could afford to live at American rates and still manage to send their child to a University that charged as much as they do in the States?  His patents seem to have done it just fine (disregarding his loans).

I'm probably going to get harpooned for this, but I have little sympathy for the guy.  There will be questions asked to the effect of "Why should he have to pay for his parent's decisions?"  Well the term is illegal because it's illegal.  If I went out and murdered someone there's a chance I'd be locked up or executed.  In Thailand my daughter would be SOL since daddy's not there to take care of her.  In the States she might end up in foster care or worst.  So what's the difference?  Both actions are illegal, someone chose a 'lesser' illegal one, but does that earn them a free pass?

There's also agreement that the OP sounds a lot like those people who have a sense of undue entitlement.  Why should he be able to skip town without the government getting OUR money back?  What are the chances that his exit won't be noticed by ICE and reported to those English language countries he dreams of finding work in?

And I hope that there's no penalty for the guy not registering for the Thai version of Selective Service; if he has a passport from Thailand and he knew he was illegal he should have done it to cover his bases.  That just brings me back to the point that I agree that he wants everything handed to him and now that he's finding out how life really works he's coming to terms with the fact that he's in over his head.  His major and focus help me cement my opinion.  He obviously can't find a job that he WANTS to do and now that he's ran up debt he's trying to get out of dodge and still have a way back in (perhaps in seven years?).....

[LuckyLew]

Are you going to pay of your debt before you leave the USA?

You are actually a criminal due to you and your family over staying your tourist visa,

sorry, I have zero sympathy for you. I had to jump thru hoops to get my wife a

residency visa for Canada. So I can honestly say, I hope you do not come to Canada.

You and your family made your bed, now lie in it!!!

[ryukn]

i can't believe some of the things i am reading here.

[BEENTHEREDONETHAT]

ryukn I for one have a great deal of sympathy for you and wish uou the best. Unfortunately there are a lot of a$$holes out there who have no sympathy or compassion for anyone. Ignore them and good luck to you.

[PeaceBlondie]

ryukn, unlike a lot of Americans, I sympathize about your predicament. Your only 'crime' is that you overstayed a tourist visa at age 6. I stole a piece of chocolate at age 11. We never killed anybody.

Don't get your dreams up about immigration reform for the next ten years.

[Misty]

are there opportunities for someone like me to work with an American company with offices in Thailand, where my lack of knowledge of the Thai language would not be much of an issue?

I'd check with the American Chamber of Commerce in Thailand and see if they have any suggestions. Perhaps they would take you on as an intern or you might find employment with one of their member companies.

See contact details are at the bottom of their web page: www.amchamthailand.com .

Cheers, Misty

[PoorSucker]

Te get the chance to be drawn at the military lottery you must be in a Thai house book.

Just avoid that.

[hansnl]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

I feel very sorry for this OP, he is in a situation he did not choose and does not want.

He wants a solution for his problem, and really, there is not really a good solution.

He can only choose between bad and too bad.

But, would it be very stupid to say that the military choice might be a good and honourable solution?

I know, it involves quite a risk to do this, but it also means that you give something back to the US.

There is no such thing as a free lunch, sorry!

Good luck, anyway

Edited January 25, 2010 by thaiphoon
Line spacing adjusted

[Jingthing]

The US military path towards citizenship, to repeat again, does NOT exist for the OP because they do not accept illegal immigrants (only LEGAL immigrants). So what's the point of suggesting the impossible?

I agree he has doesn't have any really good choices at this point.

I don't agree that most Americans would not have sympathy for his particular kind of situation. His parents thought they were doing a good thing for their family's future but the consequences have come home on the son. Now he is struggling to move on with his life and make the best of a very bad situation that he did not create.

Another poster made an interesting point. Perhaps it is harder than I thought for a young educated person to migrate to Canada or Australia. I do suggest the OP have a close look at the info on their immigration program websites which should provide some guidance on whether he has any realistic hope of qualifying there.

I think some expats are actually jealous of the OP because with his Thai passport many opportunities in Thailand will be open to him that will never be open to expats. That's all well and good, but the OP does not want to be here (not to mention he will be expected to speak Thai as a Thai).

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[devaram]

My take on your situation:

1. You are not the kind of illegals they are trying to get rid of, people like you are highly in demand.

2. Try to stay there and pay off your debts and become legal.

3. Seems like they would prefer to keep you there to pay off your debt as well.

4. If you must come back to Thailand it will be a good experience for you and you will do very well here with your us education. Even if you are drafted into the military you would be an officer and possibly qualify for flight training if you have good eyesight.

5. You could become fluent in Thai in one year dont worry about that at all. You will get a good job in computer systems in Thailand because of your education and should not have to teach English.

6. I think you will be able to stay in the usa but please try to learn to speak thai now just in case and for your own benefit as Thai language gives you a whole different perspective on life and you can communicate with some very lovely people.

7. Why not become a monk for while?

[bangkokrick]

i can't believe some of the things i am reading here.

I also can not believe some of the inconsiderate and non constructive answers that you are receiving from some of the people on this board. You have found yourself in a position that you did not create and now that you find that you have inadvertently broken that law, you are trying to do something about it. I personally think that you are doing a very honourable thing and also that some of the answers that you have been given are far from honourable. I find it ironic that some of the sad replies are from US Nationals, who are indeed residing in your country of birth!

Take note of the options given by the good guys, Jingthing, Beentheredonethat and Ijustwannateach along with a few others. I sincerely hope you find a good solutions to your problems. Sorry that I can not offer any advice regarding US residency, but I am from England, so not qualified to answer.

Good Luck,

Rick

[bellste]

I think the OP is a special case. He didn't make the move when he was a boy to get into this situation. It happened to him. Naturally he would feel more American than Thai. I am not surprised a person like that wouldn't be jumping cartwheels about doing Thai military service. Most Thai young men aren't into it either, why should he be? As far as his loans, I am sure if he was able to become US legal he would be in the same boat as any other student with such debt. He would hassled by creditors about it for the rest of his life and if he was able, he would be as likely to pay it as anyone else. Have some compassion please for someone in a very painful situation which he did not create. Getting a college education under these conditions is very admirable. I think it is a shame for the US to throw out a productive, hard working person like that who is already a fully adjusted American but without documents.

Bottom line, he didn't come here for moral lectures, he asked for suggestions and advise. I doubt we can help him much, but the impulse to diss him seems to be very distasteful.

BTW, someone like the OP could probably enlist in the US army and gain citizenship that way. That would involve almost definitely fighting in Afghanistan. That's a hard choice, clearly not for everyone.

Thank you for your compassion. You are right, I did not choose to break the law and overstay my visa... this whole situation was out of my hands and I have tried to make the best of it. The US realizes that there are many people like me in the country right now... young educated adults with no criminal history. And of course they do not want to throw us out... but because we are here illegally, there is much debate over how to handle it. Like many others, the country is split in half on this issue. I think racism plays a big role... many people associate illegals with Mexicans.

You mentioned that not all thai men have to enlist in the military. Would you happen to know the details on this? I have some extended family back in Thailand... I will be contacting them to see if they can find out for me. I'm also going to contact the thai consulate here in the US.

As for enlisting in the US Military... that is not possible. They CURRENTLY accept only permanent residents and citizens.

According to the Constitution of the Kingdom, serving in the Armed Forces is a duty of all Thai citizens. However only males over the age of 21, who have not gone through reserve training are subjected to a random draft.

Those chosen randomly are subjected to twenty-four months fulltime service, while volunteers are subjected to eighteen months service, depending on their education.

[Jingthing]

The Dream Act is very specific to these young people like the OP giving that specific group a path towards legality. That is only a subset of a wider immigration reform. I still think there is a chance the Dream Act can pass within a year or two because it is very limited and because it is targeted towards a group that does get a lot of sympathy, and deservedly so. I don't understand why it hasn't passed earlier though. I would think they have the votes and I would be surprised if the republicans would stage a filibuster in the senate aimed at punishing productive young people, already long term in the USA, dreaming of becoming Americans. So that's the bad news, it hasn't passed yet, why not?

Edited January 25, 2010 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

Hi Ryukn,

I have been trawling the net today and came across the Dream Act Facebook site. There seems to be a lot of up to date information on here and it also has many members. Might be worth a look. I hope it's OK to post the link.

Dream Act Facebook

Cheers, Rick

[Losangels]

Easiest way out of this is to get married to either a citizen or a legal resident.

However the choice is yours.

The best of luck!

[dave_boo]

The US military path towards citizenship, to repeat again, does NOT exist for the OP because they do not accept illegal immigrants (only LEGAL immigrants). So what's the point of suggesting the impossible?

I agree he has doesn't have any really good choices at this point.

I don't agree that most Americans would not have sympathy for his particular kind of situation. His parents thought they were doing a good thing for their family's future but the consequences have come home on the son. Now he is struggling to move on with his life and make the best of a very bad situation that he did not create.

Another poster made an interesting point. Perhaps it is harder than I thought for a young educated person to migrate to Canada or Australia. I do suggest the OP have a close look at the info on their immigration program websites which should provide some guidance on whether he has any realistic hope of qualifying there.

I think some expats are actually jealous of the OP because with his Thai passport many opportunities in Thailand will be open to him that will never be open to expats. That's all well and good, but the OP does not want to be here (not to mention he will be expected to speak Thai as a Thai).

Actually Jingthing, even a person with say a simple education visa can sign up for the military, serve their time and get rewarded.

If y'all haven't gotten the memo, I'm not racist or whatever the epiteth du jour happens to be. But twits who flout the law (the flouting of which has affected me personally--try getting a tourist visa for a wife before marriage), use social services that my family and I (who respect the law) are paying and then want to skip on chafes me. I have an uncle who got his citizenship by doing the right thing; he didn't disrespect the law nor try and find loopholes.

You do realise that he has run up debts that there's NO WAY he couldn't have known that he couldn't have paid since he couldn't join the workforce? It isn't as if by the time he was old enough to get those loans he didn't realise he was 'undocumented'! How can you have sympathy for that?

I also can not believe some of the inconsiderate and non constructive answers that you are receiving from some of the people on this board. You have found yourself in a position that you did not create and now that you find that you have inadvertently broken that law, you are trying to do something about it. I personally think that you are doing a very honourable thing and also that some of the answers that you have been given are far from honourable. I find it ironic that some of the sad replies are from US Nationals, who are indeed residing in your country of birth!

Take note of the options given by the good guys, Jingthing, Beentheredonethat and Ijustwannateach along with a few others. I sincerely hope you find a good solutions to your problems. Sorry that I can not offer any advice regarding US residency, but I am from England, so not qualified to answer.

Good Luck,

Rick

Residing in his country of birth legally.....you do understand the difference? Those posters who reside in Thailand aren't there illegally, haven't taken out loans guaranteed by the government, and aren't looking at a way to further scam the system by skipping out on obligations!

[rebbu]

I'm probably going to get harpooned for this, but I have little sympathy for the guy. There will be questions asked to the effect of "Why should he have to pay for his parent's decisions?" Well the term is illegal because it's illegal. If I went out and murdered someone there's a chance I'd be locked up or executed.

Sympathy aside, (which I don't think the OP was looking for any way just advice) I don't think that murdering someone is on a par for over staying a visa.

To the OP keep your head up and I hope you find a solution to your problems.

[lopburi3]

One flame removed.