Blue Book Tabien Baan

[cherp]

Does the owner a property (in this case a Bangkok condo) have any liability for people registered in the Blue Book Tabien Baan?

In my particular case, my girlfriend wishes to be registered in the Blue Book (as a foreigner I am not listed in the book but it was given to me when i bought the condo). It makes sense as if she needs proof of residence it's easier get from me than from her family (where she is currently registered).

My understanding is that the Blue Book is simply a register of where people live and nothing more. If that's all it is then there is no problem. I'm just worried that the owner of the property (master of the house) may have some liability. For example, if she were to get in debt (she runs her own business and has credit cards etc) could the creditors come after me?

[MikeyIdea]

No liability what-so-ever. It is simply a registration of people living there. If anyone is wanted by the law, then police would come asking for him where he is registered, that is all. It does not mean that they can come and fetch any assets in the house, as most Thai's seem to think. That is covered by civil law and no one can take anything without having a court decision. In fact, if the police comes, then you don't even have to let them in without paperwork with a court decision on it.

Civil law, not criminal law...

Edited January 29, 2010 by MikeyIdea

[basjke]

Interesting and I would also know the answer.I am single and have built a house,building registration in my name.In the blue book there is only my name written in hand script in the left bottom corner because I am the owner of the house ( not the land ).I have a yellow tabien baan as well with my name.Now when I go apply for electric meter or something similar I can not get it in my name because there is no Thai name in the blue book.Explaining that I am single and that there is no Thai involved in the ownership of my house or even present at the house doesn't help.No master of the house means no electric meter.

[InterestedObserver]

To the OP, I would not add her name in the Blue Book before you are legally married. It's just asking for trouble in the future if things go pear shaped. She apparently gets along just fine with her current ID arrangements as she has a business and credit cards.

Edited January 29, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[cherp]

@IO. Why would it be asking for trouble? If the book is simply a register of names, surely I can have her name removed if we split up. She is my live in girlfriend and as she lives in my condo I really have no problem with her name being there (it makes sense and she'd rather vote in Bangkok than up country). If what MikeyIdea says is correct (which I hope and think is true) and the book is simply a register of names and official addresses then okay, if it gives some other entitlement or makes me liable then it's not okay. You hint towards the latter. Is this just a guess or do you know something?

[t.s]

Interesting and I would also know the answer.I am single and have built a house,building registration in my name.In the blue book there is only my name written in hand script in the left bottom corner because I am the owner of the house ( not the land ).I have a yellow tabien baan as well with my name.Now when I go apply for electric meter or something similar I can not get it in my name because there is no Thai name in the blue book.Explaining that I am single and that there is no Thai involved in the ownership of my house or even present at the house doesn't help.No master of the house means no electric meter.

i find that hard to believe as all services in my house are registered under similar circumstances.

[InterestedObserver]

@IO. Why would it be asking for trouble?

Lived in Thailand long, have you?

[pkrv]

Sorry I think we have lost the plot here a bit. As a Farang neither she nor yourself can/will be registered in the Blue Book, it is just not allowed.

Take a look at the yellow book pinned thread. That may help. The yellow book is for Farangs, it seems to be err.... innocuous as a document.

[cherp]

@IO. Yes, 6 years. I don't subscribe to the usual anti-Thai rhetoric. Most people have problems here because they assume things work the same as in their native country and are not prepared. I check before doing something and if there's no problem I go a head. Served me well. So, I ask you again, do you know a specific reason why you wouldn't include someone in the book or do you just fear all things Thai?

@pkrv. My name is not in the Blue Book, as I stated above. I do however possess the Book as it is linked to the condo and if I sell to a Thai they will need it (well it will make things easier for them). When I bought the condo, the Thai family transferred their names out of the book. Thai person who lives in my condo, can be added to the book, if I allow it. That much I know. I was told so at the office. I decided not to allow her name to be added at that time until I found out more information. I also decided against getting a Yellow Book for myself as it seemed time consuming and ultimately pointless.

Thanks for your replies.

[basjke]

Interesting and I would also know the answer.I am single and have built a house,building registration in my name.In the blue book there is only my name written in hand script in the left bottom corner because I am the owner of the house ( not the land ).I have a yellow tabien baan as well with my name.Now when I go apply for electric meter or something similar I can not get it in my name because there is no Thai name in the blue book.Explaining that I am single and that there is no Thai involved in the ownership of my house or even present at the house doesn't help.No master of the house means no electric meter.

i find that hard to believe as all services in my house are registered under similar circumstances.

Do you mean that your wifes name is not registered in the blue book e.g. page 2 in the bluebook is empty?

From the other side we all know as their are enough examples available that most of the government offices don't know the law themselve.So what is possible at one office may not be possible at a similar office at another location or just when another employee handling the case.

Edited January 29, 2010 by basjke

[basjke]

Sorry I think we have lost the plot here a bit. As a Farang neither she nor yourself can/will be registered in the Blue Book, it is just not allowed.

Take a look at the yellow book pinned thread. That may help. The yellow book is for Farangs, it seems to be err.... innocuous as a document.

And for which reason would a Thai not be allowed to be registered in the blue book?

[pkrv]

@pkrv. My name is not in the Blue Book, as I stated above. I do however possess the Book as it is linked to the condo and if I sell to a Thai they will need it (well it will make things easier for them). When I bought the condo, the Thai family transferred their names out of the book. Thai person who lives in my condo, can be added to the book, if I allow it. That much I know. I was told so at the office. I decided not to allow her name to be added at that time until I found out more information. I also decided against getting a Yellow Book for myself as it seemed time consuming and ultimately pointless.

The best answer I can give is I (we a Farang/Farang couple) also have a blue book for our condominium. We own this outright freehold but our names are not in this book. The core document is the Chanott ti din (often called a Chanott, Chanote or Chanoot). This is the ownership document and can be used to open a bank account - For a Farang the blue book could (and it has for me), I suppose prove proof, of address at a pinch. Neither the Blue Book or Yellow Book actually have that much value.

[Eff1n2ret]

For a Thai to have their name in the Tabien Baan does not necessarily mean that they live at the address. A year or so ago when my wife's son and daughter and one of their cousins, all of whom live and work in Bangkok were visiting us in Rayong, the missis announced one day that they were all going round to the amphur to get them put on her tabien baan. I saw red and hit the nuclear button, making it quite clear that I hadn't bought the house for any of her family to live in, and if there was any suggestion that they were going to do so, then that was the end of my interest in the place, which she couldn't afford to run on her own. She said it was a technicality as the house in Bangkok where they had previously been registered was no longer occupied by any of the family (which was true).

So I accepted it, and to be fair none of the parties concerned has shown the slightest interest in taking up residence here. But it wouldn't surprise me entirely if her scumbag of a son gets into trouble one day and the plod turn up here with a search warrant (although I don't suppose they bother with such niceties).

[katabeachbum]

With a clear Tabien Baan page 2, no resident, no master of house, you can get any utility, certificate of residence or whatever you need for your condo without she signing for it.

If there is a resident page 2, she must sign every time you want to use Tabien Baan. Its not your any more, she is now master of house.

If you split up, it will take you at least 6 months to have here deleted from Tabien Baan, if ever.

Ownership of condo does not change by having resident in Tabien Baan.

[stgrhe]

With a clear Tabien Baan page 2, no resident, no master of house, you can get any utility, certificate of residence or whatever you need for your condo without she signing for it.

If there is a resident page 2, she must sign every time you want to use Tabien Baan. Its not your any more, she is now master of house.

If you split up, it will take you at least 6 months to have here deleted from Tabien Baan, if ever.

Ownership of condo does not change by having resident in Tabien Baan.

Just to clarify, the Tabien Baan is not a prof of ownership of the house. It simply shows the people who are living at the address and one of them is selected as a house master.

Ownership is proven with the construction contract, building permit or land title if the house is registered at the land office.

[MikeyIdea]

To allow a person to move in as a resident in a tabien baan has absolutely no legal impact what so ever. You give the person legal mandate to reside at the address and if he/she is wanted by the police, that's where they will come ask first, that's all. Master of the house hold can kick a person like that out at the amphur, no problems

To allow a person to be jao baan (master of the house hold) in a tabien baan has absolutely no legal impact what so ever either... The person is allowed to stay at the address and I explain the duties and responsibilities of jao baan this way: He is the person that owner of chanote tii dinn delegate the right to decide who is living on the address to. It is a little bit trickier to get rid of a person like that. The owner of the chanote tii dinn must register the complaint I suppose we can call it, at tessabaan, and master of the house hold will be removed in 6 months or so. There is no doubt that a legal owner of chanote tii dinn CAN remove jao baan but it will take time.

Most Thais with a bit less education think that jao baan owns the house and have no idea that it actually means nothing almost. Search here on T/V and you will find requests for help because farang owner let the girl friend or wife become jao baan and when things got tough, she said that she owns the house now so she kicks out the farang. Crude awakening when someone tells her that she indeed can not. Theoretically jao baan can actually kick out owner but owner can in turn kick out jao baan when he finds out of her tricks, this is theoretically, I have never heard of it actually happening.

Owner of chanote tii dinn rules

[MikeyIdea]

Sorry I think we have lost the plot here a bit. As a Farang neither she nor yourself can/will be registered in the Blue Book, it is just not allowed.

Not quite, westerners with permanent residency not only can be in a blue tabien baan, they must be in one

[katabeachbum]

To allow a person to move in as a resident in a tabien baan has absolutely no legal impact what so ever. You give the person legal mandate to reside at the address and if he/she is wanted by the police, that's where they will come ask first, that's all. Master of the house hold can kick a person like that out at the amphur, no problems

To allow a person to be jao baan (master of the house hold) in a tabien baan has absolutely no legal impact what so ever either... The person is allowed to stay at the address and I explain the duties and responsibilities of jao baan this way: He is the person that owner of chanote tii dinn delegate the right to decide who is living on the address to. It is a little bit trickier to get rid of a person like that. The owner of the chanote tii dinn must register the complaint I suppose we can call it, at tessabaan, and master of the house hold will be removed in 6 months or so. There is no doubt that a legal owner of chanote tii dinn CAN remove jao baan but it will take time.

Most Thais with a bit less education think that jao baan owns the house and have no idea that it actually means nothing almost. Search here on T/V and you will find requests for help because farang owner let the girl friend or wife become jao baan and when things got tough, she said that she owns the house now so she kicks out the farang. Crude awakening when someone tells her that she indeed can not. Theoretically jao baan can actually kick out owner but owner can in turn kick out jao baan when he finds out of her tricks, this is theoretically, I have never heard of it actually happening.

Owner of chanote tii dinn rules

yepp, but when you allow your gf to be registered in tabien baan, she automaticly becomes master of house if there are no previous residents. and if everything goes smooth in a break up, she can be kicked out in 6 months

[katabeachbum]

With a clear Tabien Baan page 2, no resident, no master of house, you can get any utility, certificate of residence or whatever you need for your condo without she signing for it.

If there is a resident page 2, she must sign every time you want to use Tabien Baan. Its not your any more, she is now master of house.

If you split up, it will take you at least 6 months to have here deleted from Tabien Baan, if ever.

Ownership of condo does not change by having resident in Tabien Baan.

Just to clarify, the Tabien Baan is not a prof of ownership of the house. It simply shows the people who are living at the address and one of them is selected as a house master.

Ownership is proven with the construction contract, building permit or land title if the house is registered at the land office.

op has a condo, ownership is stated in Chanote

Tabien baan states who resides in the house/apartment, and the first registered resident is master of the house