Many Successful Gay Marriages Share An Open Secret

[sbk]

Many Successful Gay Marriages Share an Open Secret

By SCOTT JAMES

Published: January 28, 2010

When Rio and Ray married in 2008, the Bay Area women omitted two words from their wedding vows: fidelity and monogamy.

“I take it as a gift that someone will be that open and honest and sharing with me,” said Rio, using the word “open” to describe their marriage.

Love brought the middle-age couple together — they wed during California’s brief legal window for same-sex marriage.

Continued here at the NY Times

[Scott]

It makes complete sense to me. I never could be monogamous and lying gets way too complicated.

Never understood why so many gays wanted to be just like heteros anyway.

[isanbirder]

So much better to be open about it. Gay sex is unlike hetero sex in that it does not imply any consequence (unless, of course, you get an STD!). That doesn't mean, in my opinion, that we should make it a high priority in our lives (the only priority, the way many gays see it). A partnership should be about sharing (I had a successful one for 19 years, until it was ended by cancer, and we were always frank with each other).

[Unfaithful]

Yes.Sammi Noi keeps me warn.Boyfriend feeds me.

[tombkk]

So much better to be open about it. Gay sex is unlike hetero sex in that it does not imply any consequence (unless, of course, you get an STD!). That doesn't mean, in my opinion, that we should make it a high priority in our lives (the only priority, the way many gays see it). A partnership should be about sharing (I had a successful one for 19 years, until it was ended by cancer, and we were always frank with each other).

Gay relationships are unlike hetero relationships, as two men are involved or two women, not tow people of different genders. I can only talk for men, and women are certainly different.

A man has sex for fun. The d*** (sexual organ) enjoys it. Love, on the other hand, is in the heart. I love my BF dearly, and after 7 years, I cannot imagine anything that could come between us. The sexual pleasures that each of us enjoys extra-matrimonially at occasion are something we talk about, and that doesn't mean that our bedroom is celibate.

Ths is not about consequences (even heteros have learned how to use condoms) but about accepting each other. Jealousy is an expression of unsecurity.

[Jingthing]

I am probably in the minority but I think most of these open relationships don't work. The primary relationship usually becomes bed death or nearly so after some years at best, then one or more go outside and eventually becomes emotionally attached to someone new.

Another huge area of conflict is the feelings of both people about the ground rules for going outside. Some people say they want the other partner to be totally honest about it, but when the reality happens it turns out emotionally they didn't really mean it. Part of this is cultural background. Anyone who has dated Latinos or Filipinos knows what I am talking about.

Some couples deal with this with threesomes only. I think that can work sometimes but it is a bit strange for third.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Jingthing

[tombkk]

I am probably in the minority but I think most of these open relationships don't work. The primary relationship usually becomes bed death or nearly so after some years at best, then one or more go outside and eventually becomes emotionally attached to someone new.

You "think", meaning you don't have the experience. In our particular case, it works. Of course, we are both not exactly fresh blood and have had our past experiences, including failed relationships. That's why we know what we cherish about each other.

Love is in the heart. Sex is in the d**k, and that has nothing to do with love. Of course, they are not mutually exclusive, don't misunderstand me. Our bedroom is more than mere a sleep chamber. But the occasional outside massage or so will not hurt the relationship.

Are you in a relationship? Just asking, you don't need to reply if you don't want to.

[Jingthing]

It is based on experience and also observations of many other couples and breakups. I said MOST, not all. Read carefully. Cheers.

BTW, I agree we don't have to be like heterosexuals. However, we are human, and jealousy is part of being human. Also falling in love with new people is part of being human. When you add in disease risk, and don't kid yourselves, condoms do NOT protect you from all the nasties out there (plus add that your partner has to TRUST you to use condoms every time as well), the idealistic views expressed here (which I used to share) are questionable at best.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Jingthing

[rwhoov]

I am probably in the minority but I think most of these open relationships don't work. The primary relationship usually becomes bed death or nearly so after some years at best, then one or more go outside and eventually becomes emotionally attached to someone new.

Another huge area of conflict is the feelings of both people about the ground rules for going outside. Some people say they want the other partner to be totally honest about it, but when the reality happens it turns out emotionally they didn't really mean it. Part of this is cultural background. Anyone who has dated Latinos or Filipinos knows what I am talking about.

Some couples deal with this with threesomes only. I think that can work sometimes but it is a bit strange for third.

I'm not going to disagree with you, but will point out something in my relationship. My partner and I will celebrate 13 years together this April. During our first year my partner unwittingly let me know he had spent the night with an ex. I was rather surprised that I really didn't feel either jealousy or anger. It just wasn't that big of a deal with me, so it really wasn't a problem. Although I am unaware of any "infidelities" since then, it did make me think if getting upset over any would really make any difference in the way we really felt about each other. I don't think so. I think we respect each other enough to allow for any discretionary differences.

[geriatrickid]

Crappy crutch to say gays tend to infidelity, or need to have multiple lovers to be happy etc. etc. Last time I looked at a gay man, he was still a man: No different than a hetero male. And judging from a couple of my gay friends a heck of a lot more manly where it counts. Heteros have open relationships and engage in infidelity too. If 50% of marriages end in divorce today, somewhere in between the start of wedded bliss and the drama of divorce, a heck of alot of people were banging someone outside of the marriage. How come no one writes that the secret to a successful hetero marriage is it being "open" or that heteros males are sluts that screw anything that moves?

The constant references to needing "adventures" as being specific to gays is bogus. Until there is some actual study undertaken, I'm going to follow my gut and say that homo men in a relationship dabble with others as often as heteros in a relationship do. Conversely, I'm sure there are just as many homo men as hetero men that have no need for "adventure" or additional stress. Guys are often ruled by wee willie wilkins and their sexual orientation doesn't matter when willie wants a walk.

Urban myths. phooie.

[stevejones123]

Last time I looked at a gay man, he was still a man: No different than a hetero male

But different from a hetero female. It takes two to tango.

[krobbie]

Speaking for myself, I am just not that sharing. When it comes to love and partnerships I am just not interested in accepting that these things happen.

I accept that this is not the way all gay relationships work but mine has to be.

As one who spent his youth enjoying the pre-HIV years I had my fair share (and probably several other people's share) of bed hopping. I don't find anything unusual in this but when it comes to relationships ... I am a one many guy i.e. monogamous during that entire period.

At 56 I am fortunate enough to have a 2 year relationship after being in the wilderness of singledom for 15. It has never entered my head to go outside that relationship for sex. Fortunately I have a man who is a good, attentive and adventurous lover and our relationship is built on trust. Because I live in NZ and he in Bangkok (36, muslim, non Thai) it has to be the foundation stone or it would be insane.

We see each other 3 or 4 times a year and talk every night on Skype and until he can come to live in New Zealand in 2012 that is the way it has to be. It is not ideal but who knows when love arrives at your door you just make it work however you are able. Let's face it, love is not so easy to come buy as we get older and I grasp it with both hands and nurture it daily.

What ever works to ensure that love endures is up to the individuals concerned, but for me it doesn't extend to sharing my partner.

Cheers

krobbie

[tombkk]

It is based on experience and also observations of many other couples and breakups. I said MOST, not all. Read carefully. Cheers.

BTW, I agree we don't have to be like heterosexuals. However, we are human, and jealousy is part of being human. Also falling in love with new people is part of being human. When you add in disease risk, and don't kid yourselves, condoms do NOT protect you from all the nasties out there (plus add that your partner has to TRUST you to use condoms every time as well), the idealistic views expressed here (which I used to share) are questionable at best.

Jealousy is human, but "sewing your seeds" is male. I am blessed with a BF who understands that the occasional "sexual accident" can happen, which has no influence on our love relationship.

[tombkk]

Crappy crutch to say gays tend to infidelity, or need to have multiple lovers to be happy etc. etc. Last time I looked at a gay man, he was still a man: No different than a hetero male. And judging from a couple of my gay friends a heck of a lot more manly where it counts. Heteros have open relationships and engage in infidelity too. If 50% of marriages end in divorce today, somewhere in between the start of wedded bliss and the drama of divorce, a heck of alot of people were banging someone outside of the marriage. How come no one writes that the secret to a successful hetero marriage is it being "open" or that heteros males are sluts that screw anything that moves?

The constant references to needing "adventures" as being specific to gays is bogus. Until there is some actual study undertaken, I'm going to follow my gut and say that homo men in a relationship dabble with others as often as heteros in a relationship do. Conversely, I'm sure there are just as many homo men as hetero men that have no need for "adventure" or additional stress. Guys are often ruled by wee willie wilkins and their sexual orientation doesn't matter when willie wants a walk.

Urban myths. phooie.

I agree with you about male adventures and that this not being specific to gays. But a gay being in a relationship with a man has the advantage that his lover is a man and understands this. A hetero has a female lover and women are different.

[PeaceBlondie]

From my novel about a Maya woman who understood men. "it is about the love of one good man for another. Your grandfather was such a man. We married a month before we were fifteen years old, and Mariano already loved his friend, Manuel. In those days, some men had two lovers, his wife and another man...Mariano was a hard-working, devout Christian. Some husbands were drunkards, with other wives or girlfriends. They did not have enough money for all the babies they made. But men do not make babies when they lie together. Mariano never wanted another woman.”

[elkangorito]

When I was an apprentice, the old storeman whose name was Roger (lol), told me of an old saying;

"Women for breeding...boys for pleasure".

I guess for some people, this is true

[endure]

There's a boy across the river

With a bottom like a peach

But alas, I cannot swim...

[geriatrickid]

There's a boy across the river

With a bottom like a peach

But alas, I cannot swim...

Then I shall hail the boatman and ask that he carry you across the mighty river Styx.

[elkangorito]

It makes complete sense to me. I never could be monogamous and lying gets way too complicated.

Never understood why so many gays wanted to be just like heteros anyway.

Never a truer word has been said

Some say that "Marriage is a wonderful institution"...but who wants to live the rest of their life in an institution?

[tombkk]

From my novel about a Maya woman who understood men. "it is about the love of one good man for another. Your grandfather was such a man. We married a month before we were fifteen years old, and Mariano already loved his friend, Manuel. In those days, some men had two lovers, his wife and another man...Mariano was a hard-working, devout Christian. Some husbands were drunkards, with other wives or girlfriends. They did not have enough money for all the babies they made. But men do not make babies when they lie together. Mariano never wanted another woman."

As ads are not allowed here, you might want to send me ISBN, title, direct link to amazon.com etc by PM.

[PeaceBlondie]

Copyrighted, but unpublished.

[neverdie]

There's a boy across the river

With a bottom like a peach

But alas, I cannot swim...

Offer him something good and he may swim to you endure

[Jingthing]

Looks like a peach. Tastes like a durian smells.

Edited February 19, 2010 by Jingthing

[endure]

There's a boy across the river

With a bottom like a peach

But alas, I cannot swim...

Offer him something good and he may swim to you endure

What do you think I am? A trollop?

[tombkk]

Copyrighted, but unpublished.

Difficult for me to read then. Unless you want to send me the manuscript...

[onni4me]

Speaking for myself, I am just not that sharing. When it comes to love and partnerships I am just not interested in accepting that these things happen.

Well, to be honest it took years to find my way out of so called ‘gay lifestyle’ with all bar hopping and discos etc. When I finally found someone interesting enough, a new period started in my life. I was not interested anymore having sex with all the guys, all the time

Nevertheless, I did have some extracurricular activities normally when I was having a bar night or far away home or similar. It seems that my instincts – or whatever you call them (maybe just drink?) – came alive and I felt that I should do some naughty inspirational thing.

This continued for a while and then after feeling every time that I had betrayed my partner, I just decided to stop acting like that. Those encounters actually were not something to remember or special. It just left me feeling hollow inside. Maybe for some they can separate their ‘activities’ from their ‘love’ but I do prefer them together and intact. They feel so much better that way.

I think that many older gay guys (forgive me in advance, I know it does not apply to all of you), seem to be bitter and alone. That may well have been caused by that willingness to stray and never try to work out for real in one and only relationship.

I have myself done very stupid things but I try to not repeat them. I nowadays put my energy, soul, and the rest of it to my one and only relationship. It’s worth it!

Edited February 27, 2010 by onni4me