Thai Mother Of British Subject

[bobrussell]

My sister in law (Thai) is married to a British subject and they have a two year old daughter. They are about to come to live in the UK. She has temporary leave to remain as a spouse but I have my doubts as to whether the relationship will survive two years (until ILR would be given) living in a small house with his mother!

As it is likely that if the relationship breaks down it will be down to me and my wife (Thai) to help to pick up the pieces.

As the daughter is a British subject and obviously has full rights to live in the UK, it is going to be inconceivable that mother and daughter should be seperated. The father is not the most reliable man in the world!

I cannot find much of use on the Borders Agency website - my brother in law is not abusive just useless!!! Has anyone any experience of how this might be dealt with by the Home Office? Hopefully this will be an acedemic question but as is often the case it is better to be prepared for a potential problem in advance!!!!

Thanks

[britmaveric]

Not completely useless - did have a child.

[bobrussell]

Yes - the only thing about him that works!!

Sorry - he is not that bad - just on a different planet!

[britmaveric]

^do understand what you mean... ambition-less, and dole oriented.

[bobrussell]

No dole involved! Just want to prepare for the worst or dare I say the inevitable by having an idea of the options should things get troublesome between them.

[BlueSmurf]

This is the UK you are talking about...She will be allowed to stay if the relationship breaksdown...She will be supported by the state and will be allowed to stay untill he finishes full time education.By this time she will have been there 14 years or more and will be allowed to stay forever.

Sounds very much like a normal relationship ..Brit and Thai in the UK. Most of them would be better off back here if they do not have kids..

Hope things do work out ! You never know..Seems you are thinking for the best in the future ..Good luck

[samran]

shame we don't have the scouser around much these days.

He would have nailed this answer on the head in about 2 seconds flat and we wouldn't have had these moronic answers.

[BlueSmurf]

did'nt think mine was moronic! Based on fact. I know some who has just split from his wife. He has no money , they have a 2 year old and she is being prvided for by the state.End of.

[Mario2008]

This topic is not about the UK welfare system. Let's keep it to the visa question.

[bobrussell]

My sister in law is a hard worker and very sensible and already has a part-time job lined up so welfare etc is not relevant. The issue I am concerned about is that she can remain in the UK if she wishes to. Once my niece is settled in school here we do not want her education interfered with!

I cannot see how the mother of a British subject could be refused permission to stay with her daughter if a relationship breaks downb but the reason I posted here was I cannot get much info from the Border Agency website.

I would expect this to be covered by 'compassionate or relevant reasons why it would not be appropriate to curtail his/her stay' but this suggests that it is dependent on a decision made by an individual at the Home office rather than following rules.

[jonnyscot]

Hi, just read your post, I saw some information on some UK official website (can't remember exactly where) it mentioned that a sibling with UK status does not guarantee ILR status for spouse, so I suppose they look at each case individually

[bobrussell]

Thanks - I cannot find much on the website to help this - a lot of information on how to 'shop your ex partner' if the relationship breaks down!!!!

Shame that seems to be the priority - if it happens I will contact the Home Office directly for advice. I cannot see them removing the mother of a young British child from the UK but lets hope we do not have to find out the hard way!

[jonnyscot]

Hi, yes I hope things work out well, I had similar situation took them over to UK to meet my family back in UK, kids have Thai/Uk passports and they decided they were happy in UK and wanted to stay, I searched through many uk gov websites, to see if wife could stay in UK as children have UK passport, I did come across that information I mentioned in earlier post, but I made mistake of taking wife into UK on Visitor Visa - End of story for me.. there was something about discretionary leave to remain in UK but not sure about that.

[Brigante7]

There was a case in Edinburgh a few years ago involving an African man in the UK on an education visa and got married to a lady from the UK and had 3 kids but had overstayed his visa and his lawyers argued that it would be cruel to deport him and seperate him from his family and the judge replied that he would have to go back to Africa and get the correct visa to live in the UK or his wife and kids could always go with him to live in Africa, there were many appeals lasting a few years and eventually he was allowed to stay (Not really surprised, the goverment have no backbone). Moral of the story, kick up enough fuss and the goverment will cave in.

Brigante7

[7by7]

Why are you so sure that the relationship wont last, apart from your obvious dislike of her husband?

They have a 2 year old kid together, so it's already lasted at least 2 years!

As far as I can find out, having a child who is British is no guarantee that she will be allowed to stay in the UK if she separates from the child's father, as said child can always return with the mother to Thailand.

I could, of course, be mistaken, hopefully someone more knowledgeable will correct me if this is so.

However, if the father is granted custody then she could apply for LTR based on her right of access to the child; as she is in the UK with a spouse visa she could make this application in the UK (see Immigration Rules, Para 248).

See Access To A Child Resident In Uk. for more on this.

If the marriage breaks down after she has ILR then she can, of course, remain in the UK indefinitely; unless the UKBA feel, and can prove, that the marriage was entered into in order for her to obtain ILR.

[bobrussell]

I don't dislike him - I find him intensly frustrating and he has proved somewhat unreliable - I hope everything works out for them and the whole family will be as supportive as they can be.

I started this thread only because I wanted to have an idea of the state of play should things become a problem. Life in Thailand is very different to the UK - they have lived relatively independent lives there but in the UK they will have a lot less 'space' than over there. Hopefully they will all adapt and all will be well!!!

Thanks for the posts!

[paully]

I could, of course, be mistaken

No, I think you're right.

If the relationship breaks down completely, then she has to make the best case of it that she can to the Border Agency as to why she should be allowed to remain in the UK. The child will be taken into account, but there is no absolute, cast iron guarantee of success - she is at a vulnerable stage as she has not yet got ILR. She can initiate divorce proceedings, if this were appropriate, as they have been married for more than one year, and apply for maintenance as part of the process.

[bobrussell]

Thanks for the help 7by7 the rules regarding access to a child resident in the UK should be a good start should things go pear shaped.

These are the rules I was looking for - hopefully will never be needed!!!

[Arkady]

"British subject" has for 30 years or more only referred to people who were born in Eire under British rule or certain other countries that were British colonies at the time but arn't any more. If she were the mother of a British subject, she would be ancient. What you mean is "British citizen".

[ice1318]

Perhaps advice that isn't totally legit isn't welcomed on this site....and if so please forget I said this but

Assuming your concerns about your brother-in-law are limited to his reliabilty only and he (a) would have his child's best interests at heart and ( would not be vindictive in the event of a break up.

Further that your sister-in-law is as you say hard working and able to look after herself and her child without looking to the State.

Even if the relationship broke down surely the best thing would be say nothing and let the two year period run.

Difficult call to make. Perhaps it would be better for the wife to lay her cards on the table and hope for the best with the authorities.

However,don't think the simple logic of -daughter is a British Citizen therefore mother must be allowed to stay can stand up - no disrespect to your sister-in-law - but if that were the case then surely the British Government would of necessity,save in the most exceptional circumstances, stop mothers arriving in the UK for fear of the rights they would be granting.

Best to talk in confidence to one of the well established UK based Visa consultants specialising on advice for Thais.

Best of..

[7by7]

Advice on how to break the law is certainly not welcome.

Your suggestion wouldn't work anyway as when she applied for ILR she would have to provide evidence that she had been living with her husband for the duration of her initial settlement visa.

[furryferret]

As I understand it, the child would be able to stay but the mother would not. She would have to have ILR to enable her to stay in the UK and in order to get that the couple have to show that they are in a stable relationship, the mother has to provide evidence of her ability to converse in English by either passing the Life in Britain farce (sorry, test) or by gaining ESOL accreditation at level 1 rising to level 2. There is also the question of the ILR fee. If the relationship breaks down and the mother is awarded custody of the child (as is quite usual) I suspect that it could get very messy - but the mother might be allowed to remain in the UK on humanitarian grounds (though this seems unlikely as Thailand is not considered to be a country with a human rights issue).

[MAJIC]

This is the UK you are talking about...She will be allowed to stay if the relationship breaksdown...She will be supported by the state and will be allowed to stay untill he finishes full time education.By this time she will have been there 14 years or more and will be allowed to stay forever.

Sounds very much like a normal relationship ..Brit and Thai in the UK. Most of them would be better off back here if they do not have kids..

Hope things do work out ! You never know..Seems you are thinking for the best in the future ..Good luck

Sorry to counter your statement above,but if the marriage breaksdown permanently then the Husband legally has to tell the Home Office in which case if its (and it sounds like it) a Settlement Visa then her Visa becomes Invalid.

So she would not have the right to stay in the UK.

Also on her Visa there would be a stamp: "No Redress to Public Funds"

[7by7]

If the marriage breaks down before the foreign partner has ILR, then that partner has no automatic right to stay. They can apply for leave to remain under certain circumstances, for example if the marriage breakdown was due to domestic violence against them by their former partner.

If the marriage breaks down after the foreign partner has ILR then they can stay. Although if this breakdown occurs shortly after ILR is granted they may find the UKBA want convincing that the marriage wasn't entered into in order to obtain ILR.

As far as I'm aware, if the marriage does break down before the foreign partner has ILR there is no legal obligation for the other partner to inform anyone and the foreign partner can remain in the UK until their existing leave expires. If this is incorrect then I would be grateful for a link to the relevant UKBA publication.