Face: In The Face Of An Accident

[Loz]

Driving home yesterday afternoon on the bypass and while I was passing a mazda fighter with a lady driving and bloke asleep in the passenger seat, she drifted into my lane and hit my car. LOUDLY. We were travelling above 50mph and so it was a bit startling. As we were on a bridge we couldn't stop but then it actually took 3 kms to GET HER to stop. WHen she did and I got out first she denied ever hitting me. THen she said it was my fault. asked if I wanted the cops. I reached for my phone and she went off on one and her hubby did more so! HE was telling me what happend!!! HE WAS SLEEPING THROUGH THE WHOLE THING!! I told him he was sleeping and he said it didn't matter. She kept saying it was my fault cos I was behind. I showed her the damage on the FRONT wing of her car. and BACK arch of mine. at this point she realised she hadn't a leg to stand on. her wing and mirror were mashed and scratch badly. She started saying mai pen rai (never mind) and by that time I had realised that mine would polish out by and large. Hubby was still in full tirade while wife realising it was a losing battle was desperate to shake hands and settle for knock for knock... In the end she got him in the car and we both left. SHe had become reasonable when confronted with enough fact but he was adamant I was at fault despite having not witnessed a thing due to being a sleep.

As I was driving off I wondered if that was the classic Thai "FACE" saving that people talk about. The woman was funny but she at least modified her position when met with firmly but politely presented facts. the hubby was off his head.

your thoughts?

[Donnyboy]

yr lucky he didnt have a gun

[mca]

Unfortunately I feel it wasn't a face issue but the sadly disappointing trait exhibited by many Thai drivers of immediately attempting to blame the other driver despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Probably to avoid being financially responsible for the damage to the other person's vehicle.

Does this happen in my home country? Sure.

Does it happen to the extent it does here? Unless my country has done a complete flip flop since i moved to LOS not a chance.

Edited February 5, 2010 by mca

[nasajsc]

hubby was saving his face in front of his wife by having a go at the westerner.

wife was saving her face by blaming the westerner, she could do no wrong driving,

its her roads in her country.

saving face is not avoiding confrontation - it is about looking good in front of those

who matter, but trashing and belittling those who dont.

like the other guy said, lucky he didnt have a knife or gun!

Edited February 5, 2010 by nasajsc

[Phil Conners]

So you're saying that you have an accident here caused by a Thai you should be prepared for a gun or knife attack?

Normally I'd just call my insurance and not start arguing with people.

[carmine]

Please space me this "saving face" bol#ocks again!!!!!!!!

It's a simple case of them being a combination of thoroughly dishonest and as thick as pigsh_t.

Call your insurance company and be done!

[Loz]

I drove for about 1 km writing down the registration of the truck in question in case they didn't stop. But Phil, as far as I know, one is obliged to stop if a traffic accident occurs. If we stop because there is an accident and the first words out of the other party's mouth is, "there was no accident". "Or, I didn't hit you" then its pretty hard to continue without some difference of opinion.

I would also invite earlier posters to consider that I might have taken my own precautions before stopping the vehicle. And no, that does not mean I think I can out smart a bullet.

[mca]

And of course if the old chestnut of face raises its head its as important to save the face of the other party as oneself I was led to believe . Sort of like when my mother in law slipped over in a comical slapstick style manner and (after ensuring that she was fine) I didn't giggle my arse off.

I guess a few locals must have skipped Thai Culture 101 at school.

[tonywebster]

I had a car hit my car once on the soi leading to my estate, there is a sharp tight turn (or left depending which way you are heading). I was at this turn and stopped because there was a car coming the other way, like I say I was not moving and the other car carried on and scraped his car against mine.

It was an older thai hiso wannabe in the other car, he spoke English and proceeded to blame me, I told him that was not possible as I was on my side of the road and stationary. His logic for it not being possible for it to his fault was that he has been driving for 40 years and never had an accident. My reply to that was "well that is the last time you will ever be able to use that line".

I checked my car, there was no damage but there was slight damage on his. I told him I am not bothered as he has not damaged my car and told him I am going to leave now as he was not prepared to discuss the matter in a sensible way. (he lives near me actually). I have never had any come back from this but his blatant lies did annoy me.

I always forget about this incident until I read this thread and it reminded me.

[hawthorne]

This had nothing to do with saving face. Saving money maybe.

[MrJohnson]

Why do so many westerners assume that this concept of face is an exclusively asian thing. That is twaddle. We are all concerened with face. Anyway, the guy could have just been protecting his wife as well. Who knows - next time just call the insurance company.

[zaq1]

A young motorcyclist ran into me while I was stationary, this was last year when in a hire car in Udon. I remember very clearly how a crowd of bystanders rallied against me, braying like dogs and lying through their stinking teeth about what had happened. Most had not been there so could not have seen anything! Their ability to believe their own lies and create REAL anger and aggression simply amazed me!

I kept my cool, ignored them and waited for both the car's owner and the insurance guy to turn up.

It all ended OK, the insurance paid for the car (quite considerable damage as the bike was travelling at speed) and I paid 1000 baht for the bike. BTW, the rider was under 16.

It's incidents like this plus other (thankfully) minor incidents I've been involved in or heard about that has shown me what Thais are and can be like - and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too). I am very wary these days. It's soooo smiley-smiley out there . . . NOT.

Sure, I have met some decent Thais . . . or then . . ./ have I? They can turn nasty in a flash - and with the prejudice and racism that exists here . . .

OK flamers, against all the overwhelming evidence, have a go at me . . .

[thaihome]

This had nothing to do with saving face. Saving money maybe.

Ah, don't ruin their fun....

TH

[Loz]

So you don't think that face and loss of money are inextricably interlinked?

...how long have you been here?

[tonywebster]

Rubbish,,, 50% of thai drivers are not fit to be on the roads

Rubbish,,, is it more than 50% that are not fit to be on the road

having done the Thai driving test I can understand why

Edited February 5, 2010 by tonywebster

[mca]

and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too).

Yes it has to be pointed out that a local is equally likely to be stitched up in an accident as a foriegner. It's not a case of "Let's milk whitey"

[MrJohnson]

Rubbish,,, 50% of thai drivers are not fit to be on the roads

Rubbish,,, is it more than 50% that are not fit to be on the road

having done the Thai driving test I can understand why

For some reason I thought this thread was about 'face'. I was obviously mistaken, it is just another thread about what bad drivers the Thais are. Ho Hum.

[lioness]

This type of thing happen everywhere, I have seen it myself in Australia.

And in the UK on the A1 when a big truck ( Lorry, sorry ) pulled out of a service station straight into a little old lady driving her car correctly. I stopped to see if she was ok, but by then the truck driver had got out of his vehicle and was giving her what for, she was in so much shock he might have got away with it if I hadnt stayed to help her.

So no its not just a Thai thing, nor is it loss of face, its all about Money.

[tonywebster]

Rubbish,,, 50% of thai drivers are not fit to be on the roads

Rubbish,,, is it more than 50% that are not fit to be on the road

having done the Thai driving test I can understand why

For some reason I thought this thread was about 'face'. I was obviously mistaken, it is just another thread about what bad drivers the Thais are. Ho Hum.

are you suggesting they are good drivers on the whole or poor drivers on the whole? I think the figures for deaths on the road in Thailand speak volumes.

or are you not suggesting anything other than people should not have an opinion if it is different to your opinion?

[thaihome]

So you don't think that face and loss of money are inextricably interlinked?

...how long have you been here?

Long enough to know better than every time you have an unpleasant experience with a Thai person (which seems to happen a lot to some people her) to blame it on face. The very fact that it was unpleasant shows how little the OP understands about face.

The fact that a person of any nationality or race when faced with a situation where they screwed up and its going to cost them some money will try to get out it, that is just human nature.

TH

[Rimmer]

Post deleted and the poster warned

[carmine]

A young motorcyclist ran into me while I was stationary, this was last year when in a hire car in Udon. I remember very clearly how a crowd of bystanders rallied against me, braying like dogs and lying through their stinking teeth about what had happened. Most had not been there so could not have seen anything! Their ability to believe their own lies and create REAL anger and aggression simply amazed me!

I kept my cool, ignored them and waited for both the car's owner and the insurance guy to turn up.

It all ended OK, the insurance paid for the car (quite considerable damage as the bike was travelling at speed) and I paid 1000 baht for the bike. BTW, the rider was under 16.

It's incidents like this plus other (thankfully) minor incidents I've been involved in or heard about that has shown me what Thais are and can be like - and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too). I am very wary these days. It's soooo smiley-smiley out there . . . NOT.

Sure, I have met some decent Thais . . . or then . . ./ have I? They can turn nasty in a flash - and with the prejudice and racism that exists here . . .

OK flamers, against all the overwhelming evidence, have a go at me . . .

Good post mate, there's no shame in telling the truth. Unfortunately some have a problem with that

[carmine]

and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too).

Yes it has to be pointed out that a local is equally likely to be stitched up in an accident as a foriegner. It's not a case of "Let's milk whitey"

Yes it is

[mca]

and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too).

Yes it has to be pointed out that a local is equally likely to be stitched up in an accident as a foriegner. It's not a case of "Let's milk whitey"

Yes it is

Any more you'd like to pull out of your " Big Bag Of Paranoid Cliched Expat Expert Opinions Of LOS?" Thai traffic police will always fine a westerner for some made up on the spot infringement?Something like that?

[carmine]

and what they are capable of (particularly with Foreigners) (and between themselves likely, too).

Yes it has to be pointed out that a local is equally likely to be stitched up in an accident as a foriegner. It's not a case of "Let's milk whitey"

Yes it is

Any more you'd like to pull out of your " Big Bag Of Paranoid Cliched Expat Expert Opinions Of LOS?" Thai traffic police will always fine a westerner for some made up on the spot infringement?Something like that?

Your sounding a bit hysterical. Chill out

[Loz]

Er... This "whitey" Is blacker than almost any Thai.

I don't think this was a good example of "saving face" A good example would have been to avoid conflict. We all know that. But this is Baan Nok face (hill billy - for want of a better translation) and it prevails in Isaan, sadly.

[ManilaLover]

'saving face', 'maipenrai' etc. are just few of the many social tools that ingnorant, unresponsible people use to preserve their kind

[mca]

Your sounding a bit hysterical. Chill out

Yep. I always use a "grin" emoticon when I'm on the point of losing it big time.

Of course hysteria could be construed as somebody who thinks that the Thais are out to exclusively milk whitey (or not so whitey- sincere apologies Loz) as you seem to suggest.

There's another grin! Somebody pass the Prozac!

[jackr]

Please space me this "saving face" bol#ocks again!!!!!!!!

It's a simple case of them being a combination of thoroughly dishonest and as thick as pigsh_t.

Call your insurance company and be done!

Yes yes yes!

Why do so many westerners assume that this concept of face is an exclusively asian thing.

Of course, but our Asian friends tend to take to the nth degree and base their lives around the concept at the sake of common sense.

This type of thing happen everywhere, I have seen it myself in Australia.

We're in Thailand.

---

Should have simply called your insurance right away, op. Don't bother arguing with anyone and certainly don't bother calling the cops.

[carmine]

Your sounding a bit hysterical. Chill out

Yep. I always use a "grin" emoticon when I'm on the point of losing it big time.

Of course hysteria could be construed as somebody who thinks that the Thais are out to exclusively milk whitey (or not so whitey- sincere apologies Loz) as you seem to suggest.

There's another grin! Somebody pass the Prozac!

Good for you.......