Face: In The Face Of An Accident

[Sabum]

ZAQ1, you tell your little story and then casually mention that YOU paid the damages to the other drivers bike even though it was completely his fault. Uh, at what point was this a good smart story? Did you forget the whole point is NOT to pay for the damages other people inflict through their own fault? Who cares that insurance paid for your damages... what the heck were you doing forking over cash for his damages?

[SeanMoran]

Did you forget the whole point is NOT to pay for the damages other people inflict through their own fault?

The whole point is that nobody ends up in an ICU or a morgue. Money doesn't matter at all.

[slapout]

When "money doesn't matter at all" to the general populace of Thailand, please wake me.

[SeanMoran]

When "money doesn't matter at all" to the general populace of Thailand, please wake me.

Same goes for most people until after they come out on the wrong end of an altercation with a Toyota. Money is the most important thing until after you've been through the ICU. I'm sure that the guests of the morgue would agree with me on that small concern.

[Briggsy]

Nothing to do with face. Everything to do with money. They were fighting the fact they were to blame for fear of having to shell out a few thousand Baht.

Had you pressed the point and claimed damages, they would have eventually claimed to not having any money after they had been forced to accept responsibility.

[jdinasia]

I drove for about 1 km writing down the registration of the truck in question in case they didn't stop. But Phil, as far as I know, one is obliged to stop if a traffic accident occurs. If we stop because there is an accident and the first words out of the other party's mouth is, "there was no accident". "Or, I didn't hit you" then its pretty hard to continue without some difference of opinion.

I would also invite earlier posters to consider that I might have taken my own precautions before stopping the vehicle. And no, that does not mean I think I can out smart a bullet.

You stop .. you call the insurance company. Stay in the vehicle if you are on a major road, or get off the side of the road. Far enough away that if the next poor driver slams into your vehicle you are safe.

"own precautions?" I don't even want to know....

[Furbie]

ZAQ1, you tell your little story and then casually mention that YOU paid the damages to the other drivers bike even though it was completely his fault. Uh, at what point was this a good smart story? Did you forget the whole point is NOT to pay for the damages other people inflict through their own fault? Who cares that insurance paid for your damages... what the heck were you doing forking over cash for his damages?

I got some great advice upon moving to Thailand. If in trouble, even if not your fault, pay your way out of it. 1,000 THB sounds like a deal not to have to deal with all the garbage. Though my western sense of principle bristles at it, it is money intelligently spent.

[Furbie]

This type of thing happen everywhere, I have seen it myself in Australia.

And in the UK on the A1 when a big truck ( Lorry, sorry ) pulled out of a service station straight into a little old lady driving her car correctly. I stopped to see if she was ok, but by then the truck driver had got out of his vehicle and was giving her what for, she was in so much shock he might have got away with it if I hadnt stayed to help her.

So no its not just a Thai thing, nor is it loss of face, its all about Money.

I agree. This is not just a Thai thing. People lie at accidents all the time. In the US, I was parked in a parking lot waiting for my girlfriend to get out of work. Another car came in and the women opened the passenger door and hit my door – hard. The excuses that came from her and her husband were ridiculous. Everything from it never happened to if you (meaning me) where not in such a hurry this would not have happened. I just called the police and let them sort it – the story then became the wind caught the door and the door was already damaged. Either way, her fault.

My ex-wife was also involved in an accident with a delivery truck while stopped waiting to turn into a gas station. While initially taking the blame, when he got to work he blamed my ex-wife and said she was driving recklessly. Fortunately there was a good Samaritan on the scene and my wife had his business card. He was kind enough to provide a notarized written account of the incident so we could win our claim.

People are dishonest as*holes the world over. The difference in Thailand is the crowd – sometimes hostile – that forms around you. Though I am sure if I hit a black kid on a bike in Harlem I would be in just as much danger – likely more.

[carmine]

This type of thing happen everywhere, I have seen it myself in Australia.

And in the UK on the A1 when a big truck ( Lorry, sorry ) pulled out of a service station straight into a little old lady driving her car correctly. I stopped to see if she was ok, but by then the truck driver had got out of his vehicle and was giving her what for, she was in so much shock he might have got away with it if I hadnt stayed to help her.

So no its not just a Thai thing, nor is it loss of face, its all about Money.

I agree. This is not just a Thai thing. People lie at accidents all the time. In the US, I was parked in a parking lot waiting for my girlfriend to get out of work. Another car came in and the women opened the passenger door and hit my door – hard. The excuses that came from her and her husband were ridiculous. Everything from it never happened to if you (meaning me) where not in such a hurry this would not have happened. I just called the police and let them sort it – the story then became the wind caught the door and the door was already damaged. Either way, her fault.

My ex-wife was also involved in an accident with a delivery truck while stopped waiting to turn into a gas station. While initially taking the blame, when he got to work he blamed my ex-wife and said she was driving recklessly. Fortunately there was a good Samaritan on the scene and my wife had his business card. He was kind enough to provide a notarized written account of the incident so we could win our claim.

People are dishonest as*holes the world over. The difference in Thailand is the crowd – sometimes hostile – that forms around you. Though I am sure if I hit a black kid on a bike in Harlem I would be in just as much danger – likely more.

There's a big diference between hitting a black kid in Harlem and driving down the road, minding you're own business, having some half wit drive into you, then try to blame you and subsequently be harrassed by an aggressive mob. Would'nt you agree?

[SeanMoran]

There's a big diference between hitting a black kid in Harlem and driving down the road, minding you're own business, having some half wit drive into you, then try to blame you and subsequently be harrassed by an aggressive mob. Would'nt you agree?

Passing a quick course test in Newtonian physics should be a precursor to the driving test.

It is obvious that 80 or 90% of all you contributors don't even understand that the power you have in your foot at the wheel of a car is more lethal than the trigger of the pistol you have in your glove box.

Wake up and learn to drive safely.

[scorecard]

The initial post, then many of the following posts, surprise me.

Instantly the OP, and more, have to absolutely assume:

- It's a typical Thai thing.

- It's a Thai against farang thing.

- It's about the Thai loss of face thing. And more...

Why for god's sake can't you also see that it's a typical reaction regardless of where you might be in the world:

- Don't want to admit guilt because it will cost.

- Out of control initial reaction by some people, not necessarily all people (it's actually called, in human behavioral study, Amigdala hijack, which is relevant to all human beings.)

[yabaaaa]

Rubbish,,, 50% of thai drivers are not fit to be on the roads

And the other 50% cant drive!!!

[yabaaaa]

Did you forget the whole point is NOT to pay for the damages other people inflict through their own fault?

The whole point is that nobody ends up in an ICU or a morgue. Money doesn't matter at all.

It does when its mine you speak for yourself! Id rather some of the drivers were dead at least that way they wouldnt be able to maim and kill too many other people.

[yabaaaa]

The initial post, then many of the following posts, surprise me.

Instantly the OP, and more, have to absolutely assume:

- It's a typical Thai thing.

- It's a Thai against farang thing.

- It's about the Thai loss of face thing. And more...

Why for god's sake can't you also see that it's a typical reaction regardless of where you might be in the world:

- Don't want to admit guilt because it will cost.

- Out of control initial reaction by some people, not necessarily all people (it's actually called, in human behavioral study, Amigdala hijack, which is relevant to all human beings.)

I had a woman clip my wing mirror in a car park she immediately wound her window down.................pulled out a handgun and................ nah she started waiing me I told her not to worry no harm done. Bugger, thats ruined this thread.

[ThailandTommy]

I had a car hit my car once on the soi leading to my estate, there is a sharp tight turn (or left depending which way you are heading). I was at this turn and stopped because there was a car coming the other way, like I say I was not moving and the other car carried on and scraped his car against mine.

It was an older thai hiso wannabe in the other car, he spoke English and proceeded to blame me, I told him that was not possible as I was on my side of the road and stationary. His logic for it not being possible for it to his fault was that he has been driving for 40 years and never had an accident. My reply to that was "well that is the last time you will ever be able to use that line".

I checked my car, there was no damage but there was slight damage on his. I told him I am not bothered as he has not damaged my car and told him I am going to leave now as he was not prepared to discuss the matter in a sensible way. (he lives near me actually). I have never had any come back from this but his blatant lies did annoy me.

I always forget about this incident until I read this thread and it reminded me.

I witnessed an identical accident on the estate where I use to live, I knew both the British guy and the female Thai driver (who was at fault).

First thing she did was to deny it, un f"@&% believable, I told her I had seen the accident and the British guy was stationary, then she said words to the effect, "You are in my country, you are wrong" The guy remained calm called his insurance while she called the police.

The police arrived first he spoke good English and after speaking to the woman (in Thai) verbally attacked the Brit, ignoring his pleas to look at the damage, position of the debris and vehicles.

I tried to speak but was totally ignored, the Thai woman was smiling at the cop encouraging his verbal attack. The insurance guy showed up a few minutes later, I managed to pull him to one side and give him my version of events, his English wasn't as good as the cops, but he said, "police and lady win"

Long story short, the bitch didn't have insurance and the falang had full class A insurance so he HAD to say he was at fault "so lady save face, and have happy heart" not to mention saving money as her car came off worse.

Saving face is just a convenient excuse/reason to lie, cheat, and not fulfil ones financial obligations where necessary.

Classless corrupt and ignorant=saving face

[onnut]

What I do not understand is that when they lie to save face they end up losing more face because of the bullshit they come out with!

[carmine]

There's a big diference between hitting a black kid in Harlem and driving down the road, minding you're own business, having some half wit drive into you, then try to blame you and subsequently be harrassed by an aggressive mob. Would'nt you agree?

Passing a quick course test in Newtonian physics should be a precursor to the driving test.

It is obvious that 80 or 90% of all you contributors don't even understand that the power you have in your foot at the wheel of a car is more lethal than the trigger of the pistol you have in your glove box.

Wake up and learn to drive safely.

Sorry mate, but what has your replt got to do with my post. I'm a bit lost here.

[zaq1]

First, I'd like to say this:

This is another of those "interesting posts" and there is a lot here for us all to learn from. I sincerely believe most of us want precisely that. To learn, understand, be forewarned and move on. Sometimes we just want to let off a little steam. However, and I'm sick of it now, the flamers want to cloud issues, negate facts and create deviations from original post.

THIS IS A GREAT SHAME AND IS TO THE DETRIMENT OF US ALL!

Come on you guys! You know damned well who you are. Constructive criticism I am sure we ALL accept and welcome.

BUT: Comments like 'you should do this-that and not-the-other' when it usually means 'lie down and act like a doormat' are neither helpful nor constructive.

Then the 'also happened to me in another country' crowd. Hey, do you need reminding? This is a website for expat issues. Those living, working, travelling and interacting with Thais while in THIS country.

Just wanted to get that off my chest and I know many others feel precisely as I do. Guys, let's get tough on the flamers, wherever they appear. We can do without them.

=======================================================

ZAQ1, you tell your little story and then casually mention that YOU paid the damages to the other drivers bike even though it was completely his fault. Uh, at what point was this a good smart story? Did you forget the whole point is NOT to pay for the damages other people inflict through their own fault? Who cares that insurance paid for your damages... what the heck were you doing forking over cash for his damages?

=======================================================

Reply:

The Police were called and the 'mob' insisted that an ambulance was called (I was OK with that as a precaution even though the kid clearly was unhurt) (I was never charged for the ambulance call-out, btw). I was given the chance to give my version of events on the roadside to the cop and insurance man (my Thai is just about good enough to be able to do that) and it was agreed between them we should meet in the Police Station the next day. It later turned out that the kid's father worked in the local government office . . . is this starting to make (THAI) sense?

Basically, next day I was stitched up for the money and I told that to the cop as directly as I could (only a fool sounds off in a cop-shop, after all!) I felt that he was embarrassed cause he knew I knew, etc. But, the payment of the 1000bt meant that the owner of the car (actually, a very nice Thai lady, who never complained or got angry despite it being HER car, after all!) could get her paperwork sorted and execute repairs immediately as otherwise the kid's father, the gov't guy wanted the matter to go to court!

So you see just how much this whole affair STINKS!

The gov't guy wasn't even there! He arrived late and was sitting outside the office with his son. Before I left I did get the satisfaction of giving him a VERY firm handshake and 'politely' telling him that permitting underage motorcycling was irresponsible and might just lead to his son's death, quoting motorcycle fatalities, etc. I jokingly/playfully 'punched' his son, then got up closer and told him that he was very, very lucky to have not been hurt or even disabled.

As I stepped outside to the warm sunshine, I recall thinking 'what a crazy country. A bent system run by corrupt, cowardly, self-serving and lying individuals. Those were not the actions of decent, honourable men. Just business as usual. They should be hanging their heads in shame.

And flamers (not including the guy above who posed the question above, btw), so should you all. I hope we see the last of you soon.

[Loz]

I'm glad this provoked some interesting responses.

I don't think I said anywhere in my post this was typical thai against farang thing or even typical thai thing. Mere questioned if people thought it was about face.

I understand people's reluctance to part with money when things go wrong. SHe was a 2 or 3 year old Mazda truck so she can't have been completely broke. The truck also had previously aquired battle scars so I figured this was not her popping her cherry accident. She certainly seemed to have a plan.

I thought it was funny. First when she flat out denied it. That was priceless. What do u suppose she would have done if after accusing her at her window of smacking into my car at speed and hearing her saying "NO I DIDN'T", I just said "oh sorry, my bad. have a nice day".She'd ahve thought she had 1) won the lottery and 2) met a complete raving lunatic!

But at the end of the day, This is always going to be Thailand.

Mai pen arai.

[tigerboy]

Passing a quick course test in Newtonian physics should be a precursor to the driving test.

It is obvious that 80 or 90% of all you contributors don't even understand that the power you have in your foot at the wheel of a car is more lethal than the trigger of the pistol you have in your glove box.

Wake up and learn to drive safely.

Excellent info Sean! You are obviously directing this info at any Thai readers of this thread since non-Thais cannot own firearms here, right?

[jdinasia]

Passing a quick course test in Newtonian physics should be a precursor to the driving test.

It is obvious that 80 or 90% of all you contributors don't even understand that the power you have in your foot at the wheel of a car is more lethal than the trigger of the pistol you have in your glove box.

Wake up and learn to drive safely.

Excellent info Sean! You are obviously directing this info at any Thai readers of this thread since non-Thais cannot own firearms here, right?

I was thinking he was giving himself a reminder after the "Mercedes Mentality" thread.

[473geo]

Don't understand..........

Why would would you even get out of the car?

"Was that a minor bump?.......sort it out James!!".........

[TheJoker12]

I have A class insurance on a new car and was under the impression that any accident I got into would not matter at all who was at fault as I would be covered either way... AND as far as I know, if you are involved in an accident, regardless of whose fault it is, you will NOT be able to collect come the end of the year for having no incidents.

??

[jackr]

Actually there is a no claims bonus here, and if you were the cause of the accident doesn't your premium go up...

[SeanMoran]

Passing a quick course test in Newtonian physics should be a precursor to the driving test.

It is obvious that 80 or 90% of all you contributors don't even understand that the power you have in your foot at the wheel of a car is more lethal than the trigger of the pistol you have in your glove box.

Wake up and learn to drive safely.

Excellent info Sean! You are obviously directing this info at any Thai readers of this thread since non-Thais cannot own firearms here, right?

I was thinking he was giving himself a reminder after the "Mercedes Mentality" thread.

That about sums it up, but it is not a reminder to kon Thai nor these blowin expats explicitly, but more about the simple mechanical virtues of cars and motorbikes.

Surely anyone who can afford a computer to get online is smart enough to see the difference?

I guess that there are a lot of contributors here who inherited their fortunes from their parents or faculties. Good evidence of the worth of Karma, if nothing more.

---o0o---

If there ever comes a time when I have the need to go out and murder someone, at least now I'm lucky enough to have learned the right way to do it legally. Thanks for the advice.

-----ooo0ooo-----

To put it bluntly, if you are at the wheel of a car, and you collide with ANYTHING, be it a buffalo or a pedestrian or a cyclist or a motorcyclist, YOU are at fault.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

Edited February 6, 2010 by SeanMoran

[jdinasia]

I am sure Sean doesn't mean that in any kind of literal sense. After all some things are simply not the fault of the driver. If you are driving and someone on a bike jumps out in front of you and you are unable to stop .. then it is the bike's fault. The way some people with bikes drive it amazes me there are not even more motorcycle fatalities here in Thailand.

(before anyone gets upset ---- I ride a motorcycle daily)

[bjoe97]

<br />Why do so many westerners assume that this concept of face is an exclusively asian thing. That is twaddle. We are all concerened with face. Anyway, the guy could have just been protecting his wife as well. Who knows - next time just call the insurance company.<br />

<br /><br /><br /

The face thing here is far more prevalent in Asia because there is far more need to save it than in the west.

It sort of goes up the less one has to be proud of and the less someone has any degree of common sense, moral compass and the ability to sort that matter out like any sensible,decent human being.

Sadly, they acted in the very typical SE Asian fashion.Thankfully it cannot always be like this.

Mind you road rage in the west isn't a nice thing either.

[Heng]

Yeah, just call your insurance, take photos if necessary, sorted.

[apetley]

-----ooo0ooo-----

To put it bluntly, if you are at the wheel of a car, and you collide with ANYTHING, be it a buffalo or a pedestrian or a cyclist or a motorcyclist, YOU are at fault.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

So when pissed up Somchai rearends me in his Fortuner, or more likely his wave, or pulls out without looking from a side road or his front drive then you think I'm at fault?

Is this your logic or Thai logic?

[edwinchester]

-----ooo0ooo-----

To put it bluntly, if you are at the wheel of a car, and you collide with ANYTHING, be it a buffalo or a pedestrian or a cyclist or a motorcyclist, YOU are at fault.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

I think you are confusing size or speed with culpability in and accident.

It is negligence not the bigger or faster vehicle that is the fault in an accident.