Correlation Between Westernisation And Bad Attitudes.

[SeanMoran]

I just returned from the local KFC for the second time today. I'm working hard on a new distribution of Ubuntu Linux that automates logins and setup for those that don't have hands to type, but only a webcam and a face. It's a tedious chore and so I've only had enough break to grab a quick dine-in brekkie this morning and a take away burger with chips and potato/gravy for dinner tonight between setups. That's my excuse.

The point is though, that after the insulting service for the second time today, along with the drawn out wait, the maladjusted total, and the rigmarole required to finally get another 100 baht out of me, I was walking home with my chicken-burger and fries and thinking about this day at KFC. Was it because it was Sunday? Most likely the busiest day at that particular Tesco-Lotus domiciled KFC? Was that the reason that my local KFC changed their attitude so much? Or was it something more intrenched in this commercially mixed up little tropical holiday mecca?

I got to thinking of some of the places where bad attitudes let down the Thai reputation for good kind friendliness, and we can see from many of the threads here, that the highways are the classic example of a westernised concept where the traditional Thai good nature runs out of smiles, and chaos is the only available remainder.

Elevators are another one. It's not a natural way of life in Thailand to get into a lift at the push of a button, and that's another western invention for which perhaps there just aren't any innate manners for someone whose parents knew how to walk up and down stairs.

Lastly, as an example to get back on topic, the shopping mall with the checkouts and the fast food diners. So different from the street-stalls or more traditional Thai grocery stores and restaurants.

Could it be that these new establishments are still so strange to some people that they forget how to behave in some unconscious way, and that is why they have no option but to throw the blame back on any farang they encounter through the day?

[lovelomsak]

Nice rant Sean But I understand what you are saying i think.

I think the problem is the staff at the these places just arenot trained well same as everywhere else in the world where fastfood is sold. Only here I think it is compounded because the staff are new to the whole concept. Back in Canada I used to go to a Tim Hortons that had 2 sisters working on cash that were both mentally handicapped, it was amazing to watch them they could do the job to a T. Never a mistake always happy and efficient.If ever I saw pride in doing s good job it was from them. Sorry off topic.

[Neeranam]

Did you, yourself have an attitude?

I have absolutely no problems when I go in with the right attitude. If I go in with a crappy attitude then I do have problems.

Sean, did you speak Thai to the staff? If I were working in a KFC in Scotland and a foreigner came in speak his own language I'd have an attitude too.

[TheJoker12]

aptly named.

[StreetCowboy]

Did you, yourself have an attitude?

I have absolutely no problems when I go in with the right attitude. If I go in with a crappy attitude then I do have problems.

Sean, did you speak Thai to the staff? If I were working in a KFC in Scotland and a foreigner came in speak his own language I'd have an attitude too.

Sean's point is an interesting one; I don't really have much familiarity with a Thai environment, but I suppose most of the places where I get good service, they are not particularly busy, and the staff have time to relate to me as a person - either because I go so often, or there are no other customers... in which case language is never a problem, regardless that I have virtually no Thai; when you have time, pointing, and a poorly translated menu, or pictures, or whatever is fine. If I was working in a chip shop in Scotland (academic, since I'm not Italian) and a foreigner came to order food without speaking English, I could imagine getting grumpy if he couldn't maintain his sense of humour, and he was delaying other customers. I'd be mortified to work in KFC in Scotland.

But I've never really noticed particularly poor service either, even though most of the places I go are pretty western-style; at least, not that I can recall. I am not sure I can remember any shop or restaurant or hotel I have decided not to go back to because of poor service, although maybe that is just poor memory, and if you were to suggest some I might recall.

But Sean's point was not just about service in retail. One thing that always surprises me is the rigor of Thai bureaucracy - is that an inheritence or transfer in some way from the Chinese? But again, my experience ranges from the friendly to the polite to efficient to thorough.

I do sometimes get grumpy with slow service, but if I want quick service, then I suppose I should ask for that specifically, since I've been here long enough to know that its not the first option on the menu, anbd the serving staff are not to know what else I have to do that day; they'll assume that if I order food I've plenty of time for it to be prepared, served and eaten at leisure, same as everyone else...

SC

[a2396]

I think it is a stressful environment working in a fast food restaurant & may have an impact on the staff. However, I have found the service at KFC consistently below standards, where I live. MacDonald's is the opposite, always quick & friendly service. KFC staff will sometimes stand around ignoring waiting customers. I never see such at MacDonald's.

[Pakboong]

Fast Food is not that new to Thailand. I ate in the first Bangkok KFC in 1974, I am sure the first KFC I ate at in the US was only a couple of years prior.

Perhaps Thai friendliness was just a myth and we are just now finding out the truth.

[SeanMoran]

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't seen this thread in the Active Topics list so assumed it must have died, but not so. To reply to the questions below might be in order.

1. Did you, yourself have an attitude?

I have absolutely no problems when I go in with the right attitude. If I go in with a crappy attitude then I do have problems.

2. Sean, did you speak Thai to the staff? If I were working in a KFC in Scotland and a foreigner came in speak his own language I'd have an attitude too.

1. I'd hope not, although the perceptions of others are not ours to decide. In this case, it did seem to be a change in staff rosters over the weekend that brought out the attitude that doesn't seem so apparent during the week, even at the same outlet.

2. Yes, when given the chance to speak. That Sunday, both times, just standing at the counter waiting for someone to make eye contact while other customers came in, got their meals, and left, didn't really offer much of an opportunity to demonstrate any language skills at all.

There seemed to be some kind of resentment of those who look like me that morning, and again that night, which I've noticed from time to time in the cities, but not very often out in the more rural places. I wonder if it might be some sort of reaction to the level of westernisation that is more apparent in places like Tesco Lotus, in KFC, or maybe even on major city highways, as opposed to more 'Thai' sorts of sois or rural roads?

[bkkjames]

Thanks for the replies. I hadn't seen this thread in the Active Topics list so assumed it must have died, but not so. To reply to the questions below might be in order.

1. Did you, yourself have an attitude?

I have absolutely no problems when I go in with the right attitude. If I go in with a crappy attitude then I do have problems.

2. Sean, did you speak Thai to the staff? If I were working in a KFC in Scotland and a foreigner came in speak his own language I'd have an attitude too.

1. I'd hope not, although the perceptions of others are not ours to decide. In this case, it did seem to be a change in staff rosters over the weekend that brought out the attitude that doesn't seem so apparent during the week, even at the same outlet.

2. Yes, when given the chance to speak. That Sunday, both times, just standing at the counter waiting for someone to make eye contact while other customers came in, got their meals, and left, didn't really offer much of an opportunity to demonstrate any language skills at all.

There seemed to be some kind of resentment of those who look like me that morning, and again that night, which I've noticed from time to time in the cities, but not very often out in the more rural places. I wonder if it might be some sort of reaction to the level of westernisation that is more apparent in places like Tesco Lotus, in KFC, or maybe even on major city highways, as opposed to more 'Thai' sorts of sois or rural roads?

Sean I don't think its in their training manual to be rude to westerners but maybe you should write a letter to Pepsi or Yum or whoever owns KFC and find out.

While such snobbish behavior may be expected in places like Paris or New York, I don't think the staff here are really going out of their way to 'play the part'.

In other words, their negative attitude - if actual - can be put down to three things.

1: They hate their job

2: They hate their boss who is likely to be a local

3: They don't like you.

[wintermute]

99% of the time when someone is complaining about unfriendly Thais it's most likely they did something to warrant that type of reaction. If you have a pleasant relaxed demeanor and never raise your voice you'll probably end up alright. Your average farang walks around with hunched shoulders, a smirk, and an aggressive attitude which (not surprisingly) repulses Thai people.

Edited February 11, 2010 by wintermute

[Garry9999]

You really just wanted to tell us about your Linux project, didn't you?

[SeanMoran]

99% of the time when someone is complaining about unfriendly Thais it's most likely they did something to warrant that type of reaction. If you have a pleasant relaxed demeanor and never raise your voice you'll probably end up alright. Your average farang walks around with hunched shoulders, a smirk, and an aggressive attitude which (not surprisingly) repulses Thai people.

Yeah, that I could accept. The only thing was, that I've been quite a regular there for the kentucky-fried khao-pad-gai for breakfast/brunch every few days for the last month, (during the week when the staff seem quite friendly and good-humoured), and on that day, my friend from the camera shop upstairs happened to walk in while I was waiting, and we enjoyed a conversation while I was waiting for them to complete her take-away order before they even looked at me.

That night, I'll admit to being rather fatigued after a long day at the infamous 'Linux project' but I certainly wasn't hunching or frowning, but just wanted a take-away burger to get back to work on the infamous 'Linux project'.

More to the point though, could there be some correlation between having to be surrounded by 'westernised' sorts of cultural attributes, and the sight of someone who resembles 'westernised' people? Not with those full-time staff who are probably quite comfortable in their usual weekday working environment, but when it's weekend sorts of part-timers, not fully familiar with the job nor the workplace?

[mark45y]

Do what I do. Get a sandwich at the S&P place by the esclator and then find a Thai girl to buy lunch for at KFC. Eat your sandwich and then go the the KFC ice cream booth and order an ice cream. By the time you get back to the table the Thai lady will have her food. You eat the ice cream while she is eating her meal. This works better with fat women. Fat Thai women like KFC. And you sound like you could use a fat Thai woman. You sound a little stressed. Nothing a fat Thai women for a week can't cure. Skinny ones only add to the stress. Stick with the chubby Ban Changers.

[Garry9999]

Do what I do. Get a sandwich at the S&P place by the esclator and then find a Thai girl to buy lunch for at KFC. Eat your sandwich and then go the the KFC ice cream booth and order an ice cream. By the time you get back to the table the Thai lady will have her food. You eat the ice cream while she is eating her meal. This works better with fat women. Fat Thai women like KFC. And you sound like you could use a fat Thai woman. You sound a little stressed. Nothing a fat Thai women for a week can't cure. Skinny ones only add to the stress. Stick with the chubby Ban Changers.

That's hilarious.

[SeanMoran]

Do what I do. Get a sandwich at the S&P place by the esclator and then find a Thai girl to buy lunch for at KFC. Eat your sandwich and then go the the KFC ice cream booth and order an ice cream. By the time you get back to the table the Thai lady will have her food. You eat the ice cream while she is eating her meal. This works better with fat women. Fat Thai women like KFC. And you sound like you could use a fat Thai woman. You sound a little stressed. Nothing a fat Thai women for a week can't cure. Skinny ones only add to the stress. Stick with the chubby Ban Changers.

That's hilarious.

Best advice I've gotten all day!

Thank you muchly.

[Salsero]

That's a bit rich of you complaining about rudeness from Thais towards yourself? The Thais inside KFC must already know what a rude obnoxious person you are from previous painful experiences of having to put up with your abhorrent attitude, so why are you whinging on an internet forum, when quite clearly you were served a taste of your own medicine? If you don't like it then go back to wherever it is you're from and go and besmirch that society with your loathsome persona. Then everyone will be happy in the LOS, as I would feel extremely nauseated if I ever had an encounter with your grisly self.

[SeanMoran]

That's a bit rich of you complaining about rudeness from Thais towards yourself? The Thais inside KFC must already know what a rude obnoxious person you are from previous painful experiences of having to put up with your abhorrent attitude, so why are you whinging on an internet forum, when quite clearly you were served a taste of your own medicine? If you don't like it then go back to wherever it is you're from and go and besmirch that society with your loathsome persona. Then everyone will be happy in the LOS, as I would feel extremely nauseated if I ever had an encounter with your grisly self.

Actually, here in this Wednesday, I was feeling finally well enough from this blasted illness fever thing to venture up to the KFC counter for the first time since that fateful Sunday, and the same counter-assistant I knew from times past was there to greet me with a smile, and she meant it for she knew me well from back then, and the extremely tall young chap who has happened to deliver my KFC to my hotel room for my sustinence whilst I have been almosty bedridden these past two weeks even came out to the counter to say hello and we were all happy friends and I got my khao-phad-gai kentucky style to eat by the window and all was good.

The difference is that the lady behind the counter on weekdays and the young man who has delivered my KFC to my room for the past week both know that I am not the cause of their Tesco-Lotus problems, whereas some of the weekend staff seem to misconstrue the harmless individual customer with the decadence that KFC and Tesco-Lotus has wrouught upon their beloved Thailand.

[Jeddah Jo]

2. Yes, when given the chance to speak. That Sunday, both times, just standing at the counter waiting for someone to make eye contact while other customers came in, got their meals, and left, didn't really offer much of an opportunity to demonstrate any language skills at all.

When observing Thai queuing behaviour and ordering food I would say making eye contact was a not pre-requisite for commencing your order. In fact a lot of Thais do not seem to enjoy initiating eye contact, maybe they feel it is an assertive/aggressive act or something like that.

Very often if I am at the front of the queue I will just start reeling off my order and magically things start happening. A few words of Thai will make the process even smoother. Of course the occasional Thai will try to queue jump the slow farang which is why it is important to speak first and not wait for the undivided attention of your server, who as other people have already stated is probably underpaid, fed up and generally having a bad day already without having to deal with someone who likely cannot speak Thai.

JJ.

[SeanMoran]

2. Yes, when given the chance to speak. That Sunday, both times, just standing at the counter waiting for someone to make eye contact while other customers came in, got their meals, and left, didn't really offer much of an opportunity to demonstrate any language skills at all.

When observing Thai queuing behaviour and ordering food I would say making eye contact was a not pre-requisite for commencing your order. In fact a lot of Thais do not seem to enjoy initiating eye contact, maybe they feel it is an assertive/aggressive act or something like that.

Very often if I am at the front of the queue I will just start reeling off my order and magically things start happening. A few words of Thai will make the process even smoother. Of course the occasional Thai will try to queue jump the slow farang which is why it is important to speak first and not wait for the undivided attention of your server, who as other people have already stated is probably underpaid, fed up and generally having a bad day already without having to deal with someone who likely cannot speak Thai.

JJ.

Next time I walk into KFC on a Sunday, I'll take my Luger .38 to brandish about. That might help me achieve some service.

<ed: brb: I'm going to attempt to manage the strength to go out and ride to the usual restaurant for a meal, and pick up a few more supplementary Changs on the wai home - br 1 hour or two>

Edited March 3, 2010 by SeanMoran

[bkkjames]

2. Yes, when given the chance to speak. That Sunday, both times, just standing at the counter waiting for someone to make eye contact while other customers came in, got their meals, and left, didn't really offer much of an opportunity to demonstrate any language skills at all.

When observing Thai queuing behaviour and ordering food I would say making eye contact was a not pre-requisite for commencing your order. In fact a lot of Thais do not seem to enjoy initiating eye contact, maybe they feel it is an assertive/aggressive act or something like that.

Very often if I am at the front of the queue I will just start reeling off my order and magically things start happening. A few words of Thai will make the process even smoother. Of course the occasional Thai will try to queue jump the slow farang which is why it is important to speak first and not wait for the undivided attention of your server, who as other people have already stated is probably underpaid, fed up and generally having a bad day already without having to deal with someone who likely cannot speak Thai.

JJ.

Next time I walk into KFC on a Sunday, I'll take my Luger .38 to brandish about. That might help me achieve some service.

<ed: brb: I'm going to attempt to manage the strength to go out and ride to the usual restaurant for a meal, and pick up a few more supplementary Changs on the wai home - br 1 hour or two>

Sean - just a thought - perhaps it's time to broaden your culinary exploits - McDonald's Chicken appears very popular with the locals.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

maybe but westernization has decreased a lot of things like boredom and the need to drink. Now there is air conditioning, cell phones, modern dental care and less transportational excrement on the streets.

I would be cranky without those modern amenities.

It probably does speed up people and stress them somewhat but I doubt many people want to go back

[lannarebirth]

I think thiis is the problem. The Thai version of KFC is absolutely tasteless compared to the American version (which isn't great in the first place). So, what you've got is, a staff serving food which they don't know what it's supposed to taste like, and food they wouldn't eat themselves to a person who's talking to them in a language they don't understand. Who could be happy about that? At least working in their own shops and Thai eateries they're doing pretty much the same thing as at home, which is not much. Much happier environment.

[PeaceBlondie]

I never had a problem at a dozen KFC's. Or McDonand's, Mister Donut, pizza chains, Burger King, Subways, etc, in Thailand. Never got my order right in 40 years in Texas. S&P was consistently lousy.

[SeanMoran]

I think thiis is the problem. The Thai version of KFC is absolutely tasteless compared to the American version (which isn't great in the first place). So, what you've got is, a staff serving food which they don't know what it's supposed to taste like, and food they wouldn't eat themselves to a person who's talking to them in a language they don't understand. Who could be happy about that? At least working in their own shops and Thai eateries they're doing pretty much the same thing as at home, which is not much. Much happier environment.

The beauty of it is that if you just ask for a plate of khao phad gai kentucky, you'll get a sweety bowl of chicken and rice with a spoon and fork and a smile, (and a napkin).

[phetaroi]

Of course the occasional Thai will try to queue jump the slow farang

I now handle that in one of two ways, depending on the my assessment of the situation.

Version 1 -- step to their left or right and look directly at them and smile.

Version 2 -- say loudly enough so they know it is directed at them, "Oh, excuse YOU."

I've never failed to get an apology. They know better.

But I will say -- perhaps because of the Skytrain (?) -- Thais are getting better at waiting their turn. Eye contact is usually the key.

But, in general, in regard to the OP, I think we westerners tend to "think to mutt" about these little occurrences.

Edited March 3, 2010 by phetaroi

[phetaroi]

I think thiis is the problem. The Thai version of KFC is absolutely tasteless compared to the American version (which isn't great in the first place). So, what you've got is, a staff serving food which they don't know what it's supposed to taste like, and food they wouldn't eat themselves to a person who's talking to them in a language they don't understand. Who could be happy about that? At least working in their own shops and Thai eateries they're doing pretty much the same thing as at home, which is not much. Much happier environment.

I was disappointed to find that as opposed to America where it's all white meat, here the KFC popcorn chicken is mostly dark meat.

[SeanMoran]

I think thiis is the problem. The Thai version of KFC is absolutely tasteless compared to the American version (which isn't great in the first place). So, what you've got is, a staff serving food which they don't know what it's supposed to taste like, and food they wouldn't eat themselves to a person who's talking to them in a language they don't understand. Who could be happy about that? At least working in their own shops and Thai eateries they're doing pretty much the same thing as at home, which is not much. Much happier environment.

I was disappointed to find that as opposed to America where it's all white meat, here the KFC popcorn chicken is mostly dark meat.

Mostly beef in Argentina, and that's America.

[phetaroi]

I think thiis is the problem. The Thai version of KFC is absolutely tasteless compared to the American version (which isn't great in the first place). So, what you've got is, a staff serving food which they don't know what it's supposed to taste like, and food they wouldn't eat themselves to a person who's talking to them in a language they don't understand. Who could be happy about that? At least working in their own shops and Thai eateries they're doing pretty much the same thing as at home, which is not much. Much happier environment.

I was disappointed to find that as opposed to America where it's all white meat, here the KFC popcorn chicken is mostly dark meat.

Mostly beef in Argentina, and that's America.

1. Popcorn chicken is beef in Argentina????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

2. You know that when someone says the "America version" they are talking about the U.S. I know people from Argentina. I never heard them say, "Oh, I'm from America."

3. Maybe its the live version of your posting attitude that's turning them off at KFC.

[Birdman]

How someone can go to KFC while there is one of the most delicious food on earth around is a twisted sign of the time...

Edited March 3, 2010 by Birdman

[SeanMoran]

America refers to two continents on the west of the Atlantic or the east of the Pacific, depending on which side of Africa you're posting from. I like to think of it as named by Amerigo Vespucci, but that's debateable. Now there are over 40 American countries, but it's good to know that all your Argeninian American friends have had enough tv to learn how to be polite in the face of ignorant foreigners.

<typos galore>

Edited March 3, 2010 by SeanMoran