38 Security Centres Set Up To Maintain Peace In Thailand

[hjvdhoef]

Prem will win the battle against the reds,because they are poor organised and everybody is fat up with demonstrations.

But he will soon lose the battle against age,because to much stress and corruption for an old man.

[jdinasia]

Red shirts haven't stagged a coup and as far as I can remember the last one was staged by the yellow shirts which ousted an elected government who had the majority. I don't agree with any group holding a government to ransom so sort your democracy out Thailand!

Ummmmm sorry but the "yellows" didn't stage a coup either. There was no elected government at the time (Thaksin had dissolved parliament and failed to get the next elections certified.) The military staged a bloodless coup AFTER the failed elections.

[Jirapa]

More importantly when will an Election be held? Thailand is being governed by aparty with no mandate by the people. Tis is clearly a more important issue.

Welcome ---

and please refer to the raw numbers of votes in the 2007 elections

That should help you to understand a little more.

Poleax seems to be forgetting a Red General that appointed himself their leader and has threatened judges, and in the past threatened grenade attacks that then occured. He also seems to be forgetting the cinderblock through the PM's car window and the People's Army No surprise there!

I seem to remember Taksin's party was disbanded as it wasn't allowed to stand in elections so that chart means nothing. They had a very short time to promote and create a new party and leadership which can't be seen to make for a fair election. I'm by no means pro Taksin, that's a Thai issue but in a just election you should all be playing in the same ball park which wasn't the case on many levels.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jirapa

[hammered]

The intersting thing is that the red leadership think they will prevail, the government think they will prevail and the military, whihc is abit different from government, think they will prevail. Not everyone can be right.

By the way for those who remember the yellows werent too happy with the coup installed government or any that have followed it up to and including now, so I wouldnt assume it was a yellow coup. The yellows are just one faction in a multi-faceted struggle and it is only simplistic puerile propaganda that suggests it is a two sided struggle between red and yellow. hel_l even within red there are everything form almost neo-nazis to ex commies and similalr in yellow.

[animatic]

Actually the yellow shirts only took over the airport,

it may or may not have slightly hastened the foregone conclusion

of PPP being dissolved for electoral fraud at the leadership level.

You can try and say it was a yellow coup, but it was an Anti-Thaksin coup,

followed by his second party getting caught cheating enough to be dissolved.

It's a hoary axiom, but ' Cheaters never prosper'.

And PTP is not likely to unless they ditch the dead weight they are shackled to.

Edited February 8, 2010 by animatic

[poleax]

~snip~

EDIT: And in question to the last post- well, which one was it? Election or judiciary?

Who is in power, who controls the courts, no matter what election result we have over the next ten years, we can see the voice of the people not being heard. If someone is critical of the system of election, all I can say is get of your high horses and live up country for more than your Bkk paypackets allow for a 4 day holiday. You'll learn a lot, and learn why Mr. T was and is so popular. The fact I have well over a thousand staff all on minimum wage, and take the time to visit their families and kin in their villages gives a pretty strong impression of what they think about political horse sh*t that comes out of Bkk. If they end up rising up in protest against PAD, Dems, or Prem, all I can say is keep your head down, coz they are one very cohesive group (50 million strong)and really pissed off with central rule right now.

Just reporting the facts.

And you have those facts absolutely correct Jay/jay, and well put!

But those who represent those facts are considered intellectually challenged.......the height of arrogance in my opinion.

These people know the before and after - the before Thaksin and the after. And they vote accordingly.

This voting fact amazes me, considering that the Opposition elite/aristocracy for whom Mr. Thaksin is such a threat, controls the airwaves and domestic media. It has been bombarding these people for over three years now with anti-Thaksin stuff, anti-UDD stuff and anti anything even remotely associated with them. Yet they are still afraid of an election.

Obviously these voters are not as intellectually challenged as they portray. Three years of this stuff, and it still hasn't made a dent in electoral realities.

I admire the Thai electorate immensely.

But I worry about them. The powers so strongly vested in these elites brings into question the ability for voters to decide things, and not the voter counters.

And dont bother with that old chestnut, the vote-buying thing. Vote buying cuts accross all political entities. No-one is pure. I just wish that someone would get some backbone and stop it. Those receiving the money are as criminal as those offering it. And it CAN be stopped.

[animatic]

More importantly when will an Election be held? Thailand is being governed by aparty with no mandate by the people. Tis is clearly a more important issue.

Welcome ---

and please refer to the raw numbers of votes in the 2007 elections

That should help you to understand a little more.

Poleax seems to be forgetting a Red General that appointed himself their leader and has threatened judges, and in the past threatened grenade attacks that then occured. He also seems to be forgetting the cinderblock through the PM's car window and the People's Army No surprise there!

I seem to remember Taksin's party was disbanded as it wasn't allowed to stand in elections so that chart means nothing. They had a very short time to promote and create a new party and leadership which can't be seen to make for a fair election. I'm by no means pro Taksin, that's a Thai issue but in a just election you should all be playing in the same ball park which wasn't the case on many levels.

All they needed was to vote in new party leadership 90 days before the election.

Since all were existing party members it was just a new leadership vote.

Thaksins rank and file members still were in Parliament EXCEPT when he dissolved parliament.

And the regrouped TRT as PPP had as much time as other parties to ready for the election.

In fact in both cases of TRT to PPP and PPP to PTP they had PRE-CREATED new parties,

knowing they had been caught out.

The seemingly didn't have enough time to properly hide their cheating though.

Is that what you meant by not enough time to prepare?

[poleax]

It doesn't take much of a search to find self described red shirts in BKK, and I am not just talking about taxi drivers. I am speaking of very well educated/ padded people.

When I make the statement "Red shirts support Taksin," They reply, "Not necessarily, we support democracy, we want an election."

In fact, I am a little more hard pressed to find a self described yellow shirt.

Just my observation.

"The revolution will not be televised" - Gil Scott-Heron

Agreed Wiley.

The reason you cannot find a 'yellow shirt', is because they consciously try to operate under the radar, plus they are a significant minority compared to the Red Shirt Democracy Movement.

Anytime someone prefaces his/her comments with "I support neither red or yellow" is in all likelyhood a PAD/yellow supporter. They try to suggest their non-alliance gives them more credibility. After they make that "statement of nuetrality", you often find they proceed to propose similar ideas as the PAD/Yellows.

They really soft-pedal one of their primary concepts - that being they are more knowledgable and educated than others, making them better suitable to be an electorate, and not others. Someone on this board suggested it was a Chinese concept which I hadn't thought of. Although I have heard that the 'yellows/PAD are predominently of Chinese origin. But I dont know enough about them to make such a conclusion.

Such divisiveness and arrogance doesn't fly, so they stay below the surface with it.

Edited February 8, 2010 by poleax

[animatic]

If you have 1,000 on staff at MINIMUM WAGE,

then then you sound like part of the problem elite and not the solution.

Or are you worried about being competetive, and so don't raise pay

but substitute nam jai for a living wage?

[Jirapa]

And dont bother with that old chestnut, the vote-buying thing. Vote buying cuts accross all political entities. No-one is pure. I just wish that someone would get some backbone and stop it. Those receiving the money are as criminal as those offering it. And it CAN be stopped.

Don't agree with that at all! If you know who you're going to vote for and you get offered a bribe take the money. You still put your cross where you want without anyone knowing and create apathy amongst the party you oppose who are convinced they have yours and many other paid for votes. If they want to spend their election campaign funds on bribes then good as when it kicks them in the face after they paid for the boots!

[connel707]

Well, that is one way to bring about 'national Reconciliation"

Set up so-called control centers against the electoral majority.

This Abhisit/Suthep trumpetting of violence potential is not about "violence". It is all about demonizing the Democracy Movement of which they are not a part. Implying possible violence suggests their might be violence, right......Political point made and demonization achieved for those unfamiliar or not politically astute enough to see through this facade. Especially when their English language Media will fall right in line and affirm their political comfort level

I can just hear all the diatribes my defense of the "Red Shirt Democracy Movement" will incite. But isn't that what makes a political discussion board interesting. Everyone trumpetting for one side of this political divide, with the only variation being their individual creativity in doing so is boring.....Right?

All this stuff about violence that Abhisit/Suthep propagate, is so incongruous with reality. It is pure politics.

Reality is the nature of these people who apparently need "control Centres". When Farang's attend the events of this Democracy Movement. one is struck by the adulation they receive. It is a real ego boost for Farangs. There is slapping on the back, vigorous hand-shakes, smiles a mile wide, etc. I am not sure why this is so. I can only speculate that these people appreciate the affirmation of their cause by farangs who come from traditional Democracies. Another factoid I dont understand, is that 80% of this movement is made up of women.

Then I read all this political posturing about violence from the Abhisit/Suthep side of the political divide, and it all seems so fabricated, so purely political. I can just imagine scenes of all these women rising up in a paroxysms of Violence .

Also, focussing on the Norh and NE....what a way to build political support where there is none. What about those huge Bangkok numbers that swell Red Shirt Democracy Movement rallies of 100,000 and more...in fact doubling them.

Isn't there a better way?

Allright guys, lets hear it about Songkran...the only hook you can hang your hat on, albeit a hook that was defined for you by the domestic media. That paragon of balanced political reportage.

So, does that stir the pot a little?

(47 rai)

Another poster said "... beginning of civil war?" -- personally, I think it's more like "forestall/prevent civil war".

The BKK Songkran clashes are a fact, as well as most of its participants having been shuttled there from the North-East, with a daily income for acting "red". Not too many BKKians in that crowd...

"Against the electoral majority" -- you mean: against the people who sold votes plus were enticed with the help of a massive populist marketing machine of a guy with more money, greed & brains than "the other side"?

The core problem is that lots of (unfortunately) badly educated people in the North-East, with a cleverly impressed "view of the situation", want to re-instate a fugitive criminal. Re criminal: that's not yellow lore; that's what the courts say. All that they get to see is that the "pujay ban" received x amount of Baht from Mr. Taksin (actually: not from his good-heart stash of cash, but from taxpayer's money...), which might and might not have trickled down to them. So Mr. T. must be the good guy, and all others are just rich swindlers trying to get their mittens on Mr. T.'s cash -- right?

When farangs attend red rallies, I'm sure that there's a lot of back slapping. After all, it's viewed as a gesture of sympathy for their cause. And farangs do have a high standing with the country folks, sometimes undeservedly so...

Putting myself in a rice farmer's shoes (and putting on the red goggles), the reds are doing the right thing, and they want a functioning democracy with an elected government. Taking off the red goggles, the term "elected" turns sour in view of the marketing machine that is being let loose on them -- it's a bit like voting for Philip Morris, because they make "Light" cigarettes that won't kill you... It is my personal view that this country isn't quite there yet fo face vote by electoral majority, before better education hasn't set in!

Anyone?

YOU SAID IT VERY WELL...... anyone with half a brain will have to agree... but some people like to be slapped on the back... 500baht anyone..?

[Insight]

poleax, Wiley -

If there's so many so-called "red shirts" in Bangkok right now it shouldn't be too difficult for you to provide us with pictures - I'm pretty sure they'll all enjoy the PR opportunity.

I look forward to seeing them soon.

[animatic]

... Anytime someone prefaces his/her comments with "I support neither red or yellow" is in all likelyhood a PAD/yellow supporter. They try to suggest their non-alliance gives them more credibility....

Classic us against them polarization:

If the don't agree with you and say they don't agree with your enemy,

then the MUST be in the enemy's camp, but too weak to admit it.

Thought like that is why the Red side is doomed to fail.

Nothing is as black and white as that. The world is gray

and absolutism doesn't win the war, only a few battles.

Oh, 'the Reds aren't really for Thaksin, they are for democracy',

but only start acting up when Thaksin needs them too...

Coincidental... not on your tin type.

[hammered]

Interesting watching the propaganda being produced on here. Now apparently Thai people or others for that matter cant be neither yellow nor red. Maybe they arent allowed to think for themselves anymore.

Interesting how certain phrases are also used conspicuously too for PR/propagnda reasons. Not as sophisitcated as has been used elsewhere but interestibng to watch.

Wopnder if the thread will make it back to some vestiuge of reality and away from condescending and supercilious comments suggesting people cannot think for themselves.

[Jirapa]

If you have 1,000 on staff at MINIMUM WAGE,

then then you sound like part of the problem elite and not the solution.

Or are you worried about being competetive, and so don't raise pay

but substitute nam jai for a living wage?

Don't be so synical! He or she might be paying a minimum wage of 500B a day cos he/she's got a big heart? Somehow I doubt it. 10 people in senior management earning a fair wage, 20-30 head of staff in middle management making a living and the majority of the rest working for pennies. The bottom of the bag are working with no protective gear, no health or accident insurance and no regulation and getting 150B-200B a day.

Totally agree!

[TPI]

The government should distribute the Thaksin Asset to the poor people of the North East so it will keep peace and make everyone happy

This is not a bad idea. Ask Mr. T if he loves his people so much to give all the funds held by the courts to be used to help the rural people. Make schools and hospitals use the money truly to help the people who he took it from. If Mr. T said yes to this I would forgive him on all accounts. Now I would never forget what he has done and the lives lost. But we could all move on and save what is left of our nation.

Ah, there it is! Three times in this forum I have been asking WHAT has he done. NOBODY remembers or answered. Now, seriously, tell me what did he do? I mean under 'good' and 'bad' sections. Truly, I do not know .

Come on, junglist, tell me, please.

My friend, as one who would have voted for "takki" when he first threw his hat in the ring, I thought that a man this rich must be above corruption! Right? Not a chance...the moment he could he and his cronies got their snouts into the trough. Deciding to build "swampy" against all advice and when his henchmen had squeezed so much juice out of the contracts that there wasn't enough money left to finish the job...he just fandangled money out of the treasury. The list goes on and on...over 2600 citizens killed under his order...it's not a death sentence to be suspected of dealing drugs!!! The excesses of the police and the military in the south are on the public record, all on the PM's order!

When you speak of "Takki" try not to use the word "democracy" in the same sentence, I'm sure that his Chinese clan (the Toe Shew) must cringe in horror at the mention of his name!

[asiawatcher]

The reds have 2 goals after Chinese New Year: paralyse Bangkok as per Songkran last year to force the government to dissolve Parliament and secondly to provoke the military to use violence and/ or have a coup.

The government are wise to be prepared.

According to a few on the inside - don't worry - the Govt IS well prepared and this time will not offer passive response to violence. Batten down as this WILL cause a lot of problems unless nipped in the bud. I wonder if they have got close to Takky yet with lead poisoning. I here there are a few volunteers - could help matters immensely.

[poleax]

Interesting watching the propaganda being produced on here. Now apparently Thai people or others for that matter cant be neither yellow nor red. Maybe they arent allowed to think for themselves anymore.

Interesting how certain phrases are also used conspicuously too for PR/propagnda reasons. Not as sophisitcated as has been used elsewhere but interestibng to watch.

Wopnder if the thread will make it back to some vestiuge of reality and away from condescending and supercilious comments suggesting people cannot think for themselves.

An interesting point you make Hammered. Gee, you keep giving me these openings to spout my drivel. Appreciate it.

You mention the point about using "certain phrases....for PR/propagande purposes"

Yup, that is me. Although in my defense, I dont use them for propaganda purposes, but for greater clarity of my political POV. I keep talking about the "Red Shirt Democracy Movement (RSDM)"....a phrase to convey an idea if there ever was one.

But I have a reason Hammered.

It is my view that to refer to the RSDM as the "Red Shirts" is also a politically loaded phrase...or rather a non-politically loaded phrase. And that is by design. That is not by accident. They dont want to attribute political characteristics to the RSDM, so using the simplistic phrase of the "Red Shirts" serves their purpose. It says nothing. But it is phraseology nevertheless.

If they started using my terminology of the RSDM, that would suggest there is a Democracy problem in Thailand....so better to use the non-descriptive "Red Shirts'. That conveniently says nothing.

"RSDM" and "Red Shirts" are both phrases reflecting the political opinions of those using them. My opinion is obviously very clear when I use RSDM. Those using only "Red Shirts" are also clearly conveying their political opinion. They deny the RSDM with political intent. I dont.

Edited February 8, 2010 by poleax

[OZEMADE]

The reds have 2 goals after Chinese New Year: paralyse Bangkok as per Songkran last year to force the government to dissolve Parliament and secondly to provoke the military to use violence and/ or have a coup.

The government are wise to be prepared.

I saw about 50+ busses heading towards Bangkok yesterday evening full of soldiers, so something is happening and what happened to the 20+tanks that went to Bangkok for allegedly repairs before they were going to be sent to Afganistan? or were they APC's or both.

[Foggy Bottom]

Where did these security centers come from and what are they made of hopes and dreams?? They want people to believe these things went up overnight pfff this is thailand not china.

I might be wrong, but all provincial capitals have at least one military barracks. As a "security centre" a military barracks can be made ready in under an hour.

For example - at the big army barracks on the south side of Khorat city, they have in the cetre of the extensive complex, several fenced compounds (3 metre chain link fence, concrete paved areas, with roofs on poles, enclosed areas averaging 5-6 hectares) used for vehicle parks. Simply move the trucks and tanks out of one compound and double park them in another (Thais are experts at double parking) with a few APC's dotted around the empty compound perimeter as guard posts, and voila - instant detention compound.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in the barracks yoy have the gymnasiums etc for assembling rapid reaction teams, briefing centres, and every military barracks already has command and control centres prepared permanently, they just need dusting, provisioning, and personnel installed.

Doesn't have to be China to ready 3 dozen+ such centres nationwide - even the UK could have something similar created at an hour or two's notice.

Doesn't take much to recognise this too, unless you're the long haired hippy ne'er-do-good type who purposefully avoided doing any time for flag and country all their life?

[hammered]

Interesting watching the propaganda being produced on here. Now apparently Thai people or others for that matter cant be neither yellow nor red. Maybe they arent allowed to think for themselves anymore.

Interesting how certain phrases are also used conspicuously too for PR/propagnda reasons. Not as sophisitcated as has been used elsewhere but interestibng to watch.

Wopnder if the thread will make it back to some vestiuge of reality and away from condescending and supercilious comments suggesting people cannot think for themselves.

An interesting point you make Hammered. Gee, you keep giving me these openings to spout my drivel. Appreciate it.

You mention the point about using "certain phrases....for PR/propagande purposes"

Yup, that is me. Although in my defense, I dont use them for propaganda purposes, but for greater clarity of my political POV. I keep talking about the "Red Shirt Democracy Movement (RSDM)"....a phrase to convey an idea if there ever was one.

But I have a reason Hammered.

It is my view that to refer to the RSDM as the "Red Shirts" is also a politically loaded phrase...or rather a non-politically loaded phrase. And that is by design. That is not by accident. They dont want to attribute political characteristics to the RSDM, so using the simplistic phrase of the "Red Shirts" serves their purpose. It says nothing. But it is phraseology nevertheless.

If they started using my terminology of the RSDM, that would suggest there is a Democracy problem in Thailand....so better to use the non-descriptive "Red Shirts'. That conveniently says nothing.

"RSDM" and "Red Shirts" are both phrases reflecting the political opinions of those using them. My opinion is obviously very clear when I use RSDM. Those using only "Red Shirts" are also clearly conveying their political opinion. They deny the RSDM with political intent. I dont.

I always enjoy your posts. I like language and it even gives me a chance to use all the media related stuff I once studied.

Thank you.

[ballpoint]

Who is in power, who controls the courts, no matter what election result we have over the next ten years, we can see the voice of the people not being heard. If someone is critical of the system of election, all I can say is get of your high horses and live up country for more than your Bkk paypackets allow for a 4 day holiday. You'll learn a lot, and learn why Mr. T was and is so popular. The fact I have well over a thousand staff all on minimum wage, and take the time to visit their families and kin in their villages gives a pretty strong impression of what they think about political horse sh*t that comes out of Bkk. If they end up rising up in protest against PAD, Dems, or Prem, all I can say is keep your head down, coz they are one very cohesive group (50 million strong)and really pissed off with central rule right now.

Just reporting the facts.

Shame you can't seem to get those facts straight between threads. After all, in the "Anupong denies coup" thread you said

If a new election was called, Dems would not get back in, neither would Newin Chidchob get votes like he did last election. BhumiJai would be as good as history. I've got 2000 staff who say that, and I'm in the heart of Newin country.

Now it's "well over a thousand" staff? Of course, 2000 is well over 1000, but I wonder why you didn't say 2000, or even well over 1500 if that was the case? I can't wait for the next installment when we find out you actually employ an old Khmer couple and a daschund named Colin.

Facetiousness aside, you claim to employ somewhere between 1000 and 2000 staff at minimum wage in Buri Ram, making you one of the single biggest employers in the province, and they all tell you who they will vote for? And, what's more, from that, you extrapolate 50 million people support "Mr T"? With facts like these, who needs fiction? I can't claim to be in the same league as you, both in terms of employment and story telling. I only have five permanent staff in Buri Ram. I do, however, live in the same village as them, and do pay them more than minimum wage. While I would never presume to tell them who to vote for, I know that the majority of people I talk with in the village would no sooner vote for Thaksin than poke a skewer into their eyeballs. Of course, I have no way of proving this, just as you have no way of proving your story, but I'm not the one making ridiculous claims about 50 million people supporting Thaksin.

By the way, I saw Newin yesterday at a monk's funeral in Krasang district. I can't stand the corrupt power monkey myself, but there were a whole lot of poor farmers swarming around him in what looked like adulation. And not a red shirt to be seen.

And back on topic, I'm quite sure that if you were to ask all those beaten, killed or just bullied by the red thugs around the country, they would whole heartedly agree with this plan by the government. It may even be the first step to allowing candidates from all political parties to campaign in certain areas without fear of violence and intimidation. As this is something that must be guaranteed before elections can take place, I wonder why the usual, and returned, "immediate elections now" brigade here are so opposed to it? Just as I wonder what a bunch of "non violent" red supporters have to fear from it?

[webfact]

Thousands of security forces deployed to thwart possible violence

BANGKOK: -- (TNA) - Security-concerned agencies have deployed thousands of military and police across the capital and in 38 provinces to monitor any move of supporters of convicted former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra ahead of the February 26 court ruling on Mr Thaksin's Bt76.6 billion (US$2.3 billion) frozen assets, according to a government spokesperson.

Thai government acting spokesperson Panitan Wattanayakorn said Monday that security deployment has been stepped up since the Cabinet approved reinforcement of combined forces in 38 provinces to monitor the situation a few weeks ago.

"The government believes that a large number of people will attend rallies led by the anti-government United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in Bangkok and neighbouring provinces, but to avoid making the public feel tense, 160-200 checkpoints will be set up gradually, with combined forces of 54 companies and some additional forces," Mr Panitan said.

Mr Panitan said the security preparedness will be increased from February 15, as the government has learned from the chaos last April that it took longer than anticipated for the military forces to carry out their operations after the order had been given. He said that time the protesters were able to seize the capital's key intersections and important places before troops reached the scene.

The spokesperson said security personnel will continue to evaluate the situation and will report to the Cabinet if necessary. Extra security laws may be imposed if the situation escalates, but each step must be approved at both the policy and operational levels, particularly regarding the use of crowd-control equipment.

Dr Panitan added that Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva has also instructed security-related agencies to continue monitoring the situation after the court ruling, as an intelligence report suggested that some groups of people will continue their move.

Meanwhile, the red-clad UDD activists on Monday rallied at the Office of the Attorney General (OAG) in Bangkok's Ratchadapisek Road amid tight security, pressuring for progress on the investigation of the alleged forest reserve land encroachment at Khao Yai Thiang of Privy Councillor Gen Surayud Chulanont.

The prosecutor earlier decided not to file a lawsuit against Gen Surayud, reasoning that the general did not buy the land unlawfully and it had twice changed ownership before he acquired it.

The Forest Department however ordered the privy councillor to return the land to the state as a Cabinet resolution prohibits local residents allocated reserve land for farming from selling it to others, except for their statutory heirs.

The UDD protesters also urged progress on the case of a golf course which they claimed encroached the forest reserve at Khao Soi Dao in Chanthaburi province. They said the owner of the golf course is connected to Privy Council president Gen Prem Tinsulanonda.

At the same time, the protesters asked the OAG to speed up the case against the key People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) 'Yellow Shirt' leader Sondhi Limthongkul accused of insulting the monarchy by repeating the statement made by Daranee Charnchoengsilpakul, a red shirt activist who was convicted 18 years in jail for lese majeste. (TNA)

-- TNA 2010-02-08

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[poleax]

Interesting watching the propaganda being produced on here. Now apparently Thai people or others for that matter cant be neither yellow nor red. Maybe they arent allowed to think for themselves anymore.

Interesting how certain phrases are also used conspicuously too for PR/propagnda reasons. Not as sophisitcated as has been used elsewhere but interestibng to watch.

Wopnder if the thread will make it back to some vestiuge of reality and away from condescending and supercilious comments suggesting people cannot think for themselves.

Interesting point you make. Quoting u directly hammered, "....Thai people....cant be either yellow or red....."

I have difficulty understanding those who make statements of nuetrality between the electoral minority PAD and the electoral majority Red Shirt Democracy Movement. I charge many of these so-called political parties in Thailand as being just political groups. When I think of a 'political party' I think of clearly defined ideology. Some of these so-called parties are devoid of ideology and that is why the military or whomever, was able to re-arrange these groups so easily in Parliament, and voila...Abhisit is PM who never came close to winning an election, ever.

But I dont think that is the case for the PAD/NPP and the Red Shirt Democracy Movement. If not ideology, they have a definite political POV, and can be defined in political terms. It would also be very difficult to move politicians around between the two groups as there is a definite ideological chasm to cross.

So for someone to say they do not agree with either of them, than what do they believe. Have some political convictions and do not be afraid to defend them. If they voted for one on any given day, they couldn't vote for the other the next...if they did, it would be political naivete at its' greatest. Not that these apply in this instance, but for discussion sake, ya cannot be a Socialist one day. and the opposite the next day.

Edited February 8, 2010 by poleax

[otherstuff1957]

While I enjoy (after a fashion) informed debate, I would appreciate an attempt to stick somewhat close to reality.

50 Million Red revolutionaries swarming over Bangkok? In the last election they could barely muster 20 million voters. If they couldn't get even half that many people to vote for them, how many do you think will take up arms for them?

I, like quite a few other people here, am quite sympathetic to the STATED aims of the red movement and I do think that this year there should be a constitutional rewrite and new elections. However, I can't help but feel that the current wave of Red agitation is 100% about Thaksin's money, NOT about democracy.

[poleax]

"Thousands of security forces deployed to thwart possible violence"

Wouldn't it be easier and more cost-effective to simply decide on a date-certain election, have all participants guarantee that the loser will remain the loser, guarantee that the voters will decide and not the vote counters, and that all public media will be monitored to insure fair and equal coverage to all.

This would be an option.

Unless of course the intent here is to discredit all political opposition by tying its' motives closely to the Thaksin financial thing, characterizing them as being self-serving idiots and requiring all this security. Could this be the intent?

Edited February 8, 2010 by poleax

[ableguy]

Well, that is one way to bring about 'national Reconciliation"

Set up so-called control centers against the electoral majority.

This Abhisit/Suthep trumpetting of violence potential is not about "violence". It is all about demonizing the Democracy Movement of which they are not a part. Implying possible violence suggests their might be violence, right......Political point made and demonization achieved for those unfamiliar or not politically astute enough to see through this facade. Especially when their English language Media will fall right in line and affirm their political comfort level

I can just hear all the diatribes my defense of the "Red Shirt Democracy Movement" will incite. But isn't that what makes a political discussion board interesting. Everyone trumpetting for one side of this political divide, with the only variation being their individual creativity in doing so is boring.....Right?

All this stuff about violence that Abhisit/Suthep propagate, is so incongruous with reality. It is pure politics.

Reality is the nature of these people who apparently need "control Centres". When Farang's attend the events of this Democracy Movement. one is struck by the adulation they receive. It is a real ego boost for Farangs. There is slapping on the back, vigorous hand-shakes, smiles a mile wide, etc. I am not sure why this is so. I can only speculate that these people appreciate the affirmation of their cause by farangs who come from traditional Democracies. Another factoid I dont understand, is that 80% of this movement is made up of women.

Then I read all this political posturing about violence from the Abhisit/Suthep side of the political divide, and it all seems so fabricated, so purely political. I can just imagine scenes of all these women rising up in a paroxysms of Violence .

Also, focussing on the Norh and NE....what a way to build political support where there is none. What about those huge Bangkok numbers that swell Red Shirt Democracy Movement rallies of 100,000 and more...in fact doubling them.

Isn't there a better way?

Allright guys, lets hear it about Songkran...the only hook you can hang your hat on, albeit a hook that was defined for you by the domestic media. That paragon of balanced political reportage.

So, does that stir the pot a little?

(47 rai)

WHAT A CROCK OF SH.......

[animatic]

RSDM

Random Stupefaction Demoralizing Majority

Ridiculous Stupidities Depress Masses

Rebelious Society Demonises Mainstream

Reprobate Speculator Destroying Motherland

Runaway Sham Democracy Mutilator

Reproduction Socialists Demand Management

Edited February 8, 2010 by animatic

[BSJ]

I find this a bit disturbing Control centres sounds like something Hitler set up in the 1940's. Next all Red shirts will be asked to wear an insignia on there shoulder.

Pretty much like what I was thinking!

Then I got to Post #84 and the new information starts to make the governments position have a hint of desperation about it.

After the 160+ checkpoints are put in place, after the 38 Control Centres are activated, will the new black uniforms with the new insignia be ready in time???

Edited February 8, 2010 by BSJ

[jdinasia]

"Thousands of security forces deployed to thwart possible violence"

Wouldn't it be easier and more cost-effective to simply decide on a date-certain election, have all participants guarantee that the loser will remain the loser, guarantee that the voters will decide and not the vote counters, and that all public media will be monitored to insure fair and equal coverage to all.

This would be an option.

Unless of course the intent here is to discredit all political opposition by tying its' motives closely to the Thaksin financial thing, characterizing them as being self-serving idiots and requiring all this security. Could this be the intent?

Ummmm

1) The voters decide unless political parties get caught cheating.

2) There will be an election when this term of parliament ends OR when the current coalition dies and a new one cannot be put together OR when the PM dissolves parliament ... that is how it works in a parliamentary democracy. Much of the last 5 years worth of tension can be laid firmly at Thaksin's feet for dissolving parliament when the existing government didn't need to.

3) Public media ---- there are pro Thaksin papers, a Thaksin TV station, Thaksin radio stations etc. If you can't remember back 5 years+ ago I am sure people will remind you of the controls, threats, law suits, and intimidation used by Thaksin in specific and TRT in general to stifle opposition in the press.

4) Not all opposition is aligned with Thaksin and money ... BUT the Red shirt movement certainly is.

5) Why would security be needed? Wow, can anyone really be asking this? Thaksin announces a "People's Army of Thailand", a Red leader and General in the military announces that the judges and EC members etc are in danger of being killed. (Remember this is the same General that threatened grenade attacks at Government House --- and they happened, and the same general that threatened grenade attacks at Suwannapoom airport and they happened.

get real