Honda Phantom Ta200

[kitjohnson]

I got it up on the stand this morning and was slightly disappointed by the fact that I couldn't find any free play whatsoever on either the front or back wheels. Looks like the bearings are OK. I guess there's no need to change them. I was kinda looking forward to it!

It was good to work out how to use the stand though. Now oiling the chain etc will work a lot better if I can get the rear wheel raised.

In repair shops to lift the back wheel they usually put the stand under the exhaust pipe. Is that a good idea? It looks like with a bit more effort I should be able to put the stand directly under the frame, more solid.

I kinda struggled getting the back wheel raised because I was trying to lift the rear end of the bike up. It's heavy and I'm small, no fun. I realised that you just have to tilt it so the front wheel is raised, put the stand underneath the exhaust, and when you drop the front wheel down the rear wheel will magically raise up.

I might depending on where you are.

I live 65 km southwest of Khampaeng Phet and about 400 km from BKK or CM.

If you're interested let me know when you're next in CM. They're not the kind of jacks you use to raise a vehicle up, they're stands (i.e. you can adjust the height first and then put the bike on top), just like the ones you see in most bike repair places here. 400 baht.

[billd766]

I got it up on the stand this morning and was slightly disappointed by the fact that I couldn't find any free play whatsoever on either the front or back wheels. Looks like the bearings are OK. I guess there's no need to change them. I was kinda looking forward to it!

It was good to work out how to use the stand though. Now oiling the chain etc will work a lot better if I can get the rear wheel raised.

In repair shops to lift the back wheel they usually put the stand under the exhaust pipe. Is that a good idea? It looks like with a bit more effort I should be able to put the stand directly under the frame, more solid.

I kinda struggled getting the back wheel raised because I was trying to lift the rear end of the bike up. It's heavy and I'm small, no fun. I realised that you just have to tilt it so the front wheel is raised, put the stand underneath the exhaust, and when you drop the front wheel down the rear wheel will magically raise up.

I might depending on where you are.

I live 65 km southwest of Khampaeng Phet and about 400 km from BKK or CM.

If you're interested let me know when you're next in CM. They're not the kind of jacks you use to raise a vehicle up, they're stands (i.e. you can adjust the height first and then put the bike on top), just like the ones you see in most bike repair places here. 400 baht.

Thanks for that but it won't be until next year.

Also now you have explained it I understand the stands you are talking about, similar to the axle stands I used to use in the UK years ago.

[transplant]

I just got my new phantom last week I hear noises too. My first though was maybe they forgot to put oil in so I checked that it is ok . But has what I would call knocking noises like it is low on oil or piston isnot set right. i only have 500 kilo on it so far. other than the noises I love the bike nice ride responds good at high speeds and I really like the weigh it makes the ride so much more comfortable than my honda wave.

It seems like it doesn't matter if you buy a new or used bike here, adjustments need to be made. I bought a new Honda here once and it just wasn't assembled right, so now I try to hang on to a bike as long as possible to avoid another clunky break in. I know this doesn't help your situation but I wish you luck. If I were you, I'd visit several Honda shops and have the mechanics listen to your bike. You're bound to find one that will know what the problem is.

[AllanB]

Here is my 2 penneth.

I have a 2005 Phanton Ta200, one of the good ones I am told and it is a nice bike, but runs very hot even at 60kph on a 200km cruise on a warm day. The oil must evaporate since there is no smoke and gets through a litre every 1000km or less. Mine has done 53,000km and I think the oil spec needs to be high to handle the heat, as advised, I am about to go up to a 20/50 which stays thicker longer when hot, but think a synthetic would be best.

If the original Honda engine gets hot, my guess is the Chinese copy built to a lower standard may be a pain, but certainly put the best oil in and keep the mixture right, or very slightly rich, as a lean mixture means more heat. I read that Denso plugs work better too X24EPR U2 so will try that. Not a lot else to change really.

The upside is that I get a phenomenal 120mpg (42km/litre) with a mixture of 20%town/80%country driving.and it is easy to ride for a novice.

[VocalNeal]

... I think the oil spec needs to be high to handle the heat, as advised, I am about to go up to a 20/50 which stays thicker longer when hot, but think a synthetic would be best.

Allan,

20/50 will be good but avoid synthetics they are generally thinner and will leak past place where normal oils will not. Synthetics are not usually recommended on old(er) engines.

Plus side if you use oil you never need to change it!

Know of a BMW 800 GS that had oil light flickering problem . When correct conventional oil was used as recommended by BMW, instead of the synthetic used by Barcelona, the problem went away.

Edited November 2, 2012 by VocalNeal

[MauriceVanTine]

I have a 2008 model Phantom with 14,000 K on it I purchased it used everything about it apeared exellent. To my ear it sounds loose at low RPM's "Idel" it sound's fine under load and at speed. HAS ANYONE ELSE NOTICED THIS?

Moe

[AllanB]

I bought my 2005 Phantom 9 months ago and had a very strange fault which cost me an engine rebuild. The tappets began to get noisy and the engine hot, even though I checked the oil level before every trip, so after the repair, I sprayed the dipstick white, so that the level would show up better.

After we filled up with 1 litre, the level measured 2cm above maximum (bike upright, not screwed in), so it appears that some dipstick has fitted the wrong dipstick. Resulting in my running with virtually no oil in the sump. I have recalibrated now, but the repairs cost 13,000baht.

Would someone kindly confirm the length of their Phantom dipstick, mine is (end of threads to end of dipstick) 11.5cm?

Mine seems to be designed to measure with the bike on it's side stand??? Never heard of that.

[JSixpack]

What's funny is that is a Japanese bike, which is supposed to be perfect according to our anti-Chinese bike brigade. If it were a Chinese bike like a Lifan, you'd see a bunch of posts decrying Chinese quality, I knew its, I told you so, etc.

[Kimera]

I bought my 2005 Phantom 9 months ago and had a very strange fault which cost me an engine rebuild. The tappets began to get noisy and the engine hot, even though I checked the oil level before every trip, so after the repair, I sprayed the dipstick white, so that the level would show up better.

After we filled up with 1 litre, the level measured 2cm above maximum (bike upright, not screwed in), so it appears that some dipstick has fitted the wrong dipstick. Resulting in my running with virtually no oil in the sump. I have recalibrated now, but the repairs cost 13,000baht.

Would someone kindly confirm the length of their Phantom dipstick, mine is (end of threads to end of dipstick) 11.5cm?

Mine seems to be designed to measure with the bike on it's side stand??? Never heard of that.

I have a 2006 from new it has been trouble free (usual plate problems I am on an Island) and runs well I will check the stick and report back..

[aitch52]

Just measured my dipstick, from tip to start of threads 117mm (bottom of thread). To top of thread 125mm.

O Dipstick cap

= Top of thread under cap 125mm

=

= Bottom of thread 117mm

Forgive the Heath Robinson illustration.

Edited November 18, 2012 by aitch52

[aitch52]

I bought my 2005 Phantom 9 months ago and had a very strange fault which cost me an engine rebuild. The tappets began to get noisy and the engine hot, even though I checked the oil level before every trip, so after the repair, I sprayed the dipstick white, so that the level would show up better.

After we filled up with 1 litre, the level measured 2cm above maximum (bike upright, not screwed in), so it appears that some dipstick has fitted the wrong dipstick. Resulting in my running with virtually no oil in the sump. I have recalibrated now, but the repairs cost 13,000baht.

Would someone kindly confirm the length of their Phantom dipstick, mine is (end of threads to end of dipstick) 11.5cm?

Mine seems to be designed to measure with the bike on it's side stand??? Never heard of that.

According to the phantom owners manual it should be measured upright. If you don't have a copy PM me your e-mail and I will send a copy.

[Kimera]

I bought my 2005 Phantom 9 months ago and had a very strange fault which cost me an engine rebuild. The tappets began to get noisy and the engine hot, even though I checked the oil level before every trip, so after the repair, I sprayed the dipstick white, so that the level would show up better.

After we filled up with 1 litre, the level measured 2cm above maximum (bike upright, not screwed in), so it appears that some dipstick has fitted the wrong dipstick. Resulting in my running with virtually no oil in the sump. I have recalibrated now, but the repairs cost 13,000baht.

Would someone kindly confirm the length of their Phantom dipstick, mine is (end of threads to end of dipstick) 11.5cm?

Mine seems to be designed to measure with the bike on it's side stand??? Never heard of that.

I have a 2006 from new it has been trouble free (usual plate problems I am on an Island) and runs well I will check the stick and report back..

11.5 is correct with the bike upright

[AllanB]

I think I have susses the problem, but only think, so I am open to ridicule here.

The book says you need to run the engine before checking the oil level, so I assume that you need to get some oil up to the rockers and then test what is left in the sump. I didn't do this and presumably the oil pool in the rocker cradle was draining back into the sump giving a false reading.

Is there anything slowing the oil in the rocker cradle from dropping back into the sump, as the rebuilt engine now has noisy tappets, I have checked the oil pump which seems okay.

I though initially that early models (ignition switch on the engine, like mine) had a different crank casing to later models (ignition switch in front of the handle bars), but checked today and they don't.

Any idea if there were any changes made when they moved the ignition switch in 2006-ish, or what the two models were called?

I also have a bit of slop in the transmission, but hopefully a warn chain is the cause. The gearbox has always been a bit noisy, straight cut gears I guess.

[AllanB]

Yes I was right and feel a bit foolish now, but all my experience is with cars, holding a lot more oil in just the engine.

The oil level needs to checked after it has been run for a while to allow the oil to collect in places where it does when it is running, rocker basket, etc. The level needs to be correct to what is in the sump when the bike is running and being that there is only 1 litre in the whole engine/gearbox, there can be a sizable difference on the dipstick.

For those who are also bike novices this may be useful information and they can avoid running the Phantom engine low on oil, with disastrous results, I have heard that this is not such a big problem with other bikes like Kawasaki Boss.

Anyway thanks for the help.

IMPROVING THE SOUND

Someone did mention improving the sound of the Phantom, by modifying the exhaust, effectively making it louder and deeper. I have been warned off doing this as I understand the police are pretty hot on noisy bikes and issue fines at the drop of the hat. They don't need much of an excuse around here anyway.

[aitch52]

The bike is an overhead cam interference engine Alan. There has been an issue with the cam chain tensioner in the past, if it breaks then the timing slips, so that as the piston comes to just before TDC and the valves are open, then the crown of the piston will collide with the open valves with pretty catastrophic results (hence interference). To have it changed is not expensive, maybe 850 Baht plus about 100 baht labour. I had mine changed at 25K, just passed 47K so I will have it done again soon. The tensioner is a high quality polymer plastic moulding, but heat does have an effect on it so that it will degrade over time and fail. Maybe yours was renewed on your rebuild, but knowing what they are like probably not. There were some threads about it on this forum a couple of years ago.

I had my chain and sprockets renewed recently, mine was beginning to get noisy too, a harsh transmission type noise as you are riding which gets worse the quicker you go. Probably due to riding it every day in the floods last year and not giving enough lubrication. The bike sounds good now with just a purr from the engine when cruising with no transmission noise whatsoever. Cost about 3500 Baht for all genuine Honda parts.

I did a small mod on mine after reading an Australian thread, they call it the 200 shadow there. I used to have some very long drill bits and I just drilled a few 5/32" holes in the rearmost baffle, it is not noisy but has a much deeper resonance than before. No improvement or loss of performance. I love the bike as she has served me well for 5 years. I am in the process of fixing up a Yamaha Virago 535, still keeping the Phantom though as SWMBO has taken a fancy to her.

Moral of the story, the noises are not natural and are pointing to a problem.

Good Luck and enjoy the bike, I've had great pleasure out of mine and used to commute 178 kms each way every weekend on her for a year.

Aitch

Edited November 28, 2012 by aitch52

[billd766]

My Phantom is 7 years old and still runs well with 42,xxx on the clock. Like Aitch 52 I replaced the chain and sprockets around 25,xxx and the cam chain tensioner at the same time.

I will probably replace the chain and sprockets in the new year and I am thinking of putting a different tooth sprocket on the front this time.

The Phantom has a 13/41 tooth setup and for every extra tooth on the front sprocket theoritically I get an extra 9 kph in top or the same speed with less rpm.

I will order the standard 13/41 set up and get my local guys to order me a14 and a 15 tooth as extras then chuck the 15 tooth in for a few weeks as a test.

See the attachment and play with the ratios yourselves.

Motorcycle Gearing.xls

[AllanB]

I just replaced my chain and sprockets with a standard ratios, the reasons being these.

1. It is not the torquiest engine in the world and losing 9% doe not seem a good idea, especially when we are often two up.

2. The roads around here are pretty bad, so 60-70kph feels safe, at 60 it is only just out of labouring revs in 6th.

3. My last chain stretched like mad and the rear sprocket was actually picking it up, so more load, not a good idea.

So you don't get anything for nothing, but if your roads are better and flat probably a good idea.

May do a bit of exhaust drilling, to improve the sound, where did you make the holes and how many, any photos please?

[aitch52]

No pics really required Alan. If you take a penlight torch and look up the back of the exhaust you will see the rear baffle, I drilled 4 5/32 holes at approx 45, 135, 225 and 315 degrees of the circle. As I said before does not seem to affect performance or petrol consumption in any way but he bike sounds throatier. As I said I had some very long HSS drills from my previous job.

[AllanB]

No pics really required Alan. If you take a penlight torch and look up the back of the exhaust you will see the rear baffle, I drilled 4 5/32 holes at approx 45, 135, 225 and 315 degrees of the circle. As I said before does not seem to affect performance or petrol consumption in any way but he bike sounds throatier. As I said I had some very long HSS drills from my previous job.

There are two types of exhaust fitted to the Phantom, those with a round exhaust end and other with oblong one, mine is the latter, which one are you referring to? And how long is very long?

Now another problem and the bike is now back in the work shop, we heard a noise which appeared to be tappets again, but when we took the cover off the gearbox we got a big shock, it appeared to be full of metal bits mixed in with the oil.. ...However, when we picked them out it turns out they were bits of rubber We stripped the gearbox to find the only damage to be the 4 clutch rubbers, which had disintegrated during the oil starvation heat-up, which had destroyed the cam and rockers.

After so many visits, the boss of the garage came in to deal with the matter personally, he had many farang customers and wanted my bike sorted once and for all. The rubbers they had ins stock were not genuine Honda parts, so he drove to Udon Thani to pick some up, but they turned out to be pattern parts as well. They have now located some in BKK and are due to be bussed up overnight and should be here today. Fingers crossed.

He told me he found out about the previous owner, who, he said never maintained the bike much at all and with 54k on the clock the rebuild was probably necessary anyway....so fingers crossed.

The lesson I have learned in all this, is that the Phantom engine is very sensitive to having the correct oil level and that IT IS VERY IMPORTANT TO START AND RUN THE ENGINE FOR 5 MINUTES BEFORE CHECKING THE OIL LEVEL otherwise you may get a false reading and think you have sufficient oil, when you don't.

Edited December 7, 2012 by AllanB

[dave_boo]

My Phantom is 7 years old and still runs well with 42,xxx on the clock. Like Aitch 52 I replaced the chain and sprockets around 25,xxx and the cam chain tensioner at the same time.

I will probably replace the chain and sprockets in the new year and I am thinking of putting a different tooth sprocket on the front this time.

The Phantom has a 13/41 tooth setup and for every extra tooth on the front sprocket theoritically I get an extra 9 kph in top or the same speed with less rpm.

I will order the standard 13/41 set up and get my local guys to order me a14 and a 15 tooth as extras then chuck the 15 tooth in for a few weeks as a test.

See the attachment and play with the ratios yourselves.

Motorcycle Gearing.xls

Where have I seen that spreadsheet before?

[aitch52]

My drills were about 10" long, the exhaust I have is the round one. Sorry to hear of all your troubles, now the clutch gone bugger me hope it all gets sorted for you.

[billd766]

My Phantom is 7 years old and still runs well with 42,xxx on the clock. Like Aitch 52 I replaced the chain and sprockets around 25,xxx and the cam chain tensioner at the same time.

I will probably replace the chain and sprockets in the new year and I am thinking of putting a different tooth sprocket on the front this time.

The Phantom has a 13/41 tooth setup and for every extra tooth on the front sprocket theoritically I get an extra 9 kph in top or the same speed with less rpm.

I will order the standard 13/41 set up and get my local guys to order me a14 and a 15 tooth as extras then chuck the 15 tooth in for a few weeks as a test.

See the attachment and play with the ratios yourselves.

Motorcycle Gearing.xls

Where have I seen that spreadsheet before?

I have no idea. Some strange 'merkin sent it to me.

[tmaker]

ummm...saw somewhere...but can't find it....seems the tyres are not so suitable...gotta change them? seems it is not good for wet roads...

just got mine , 2004,mileage 23K...in the shop now...re-spray and chrome job...

[AllanB]

My drills were about 10" long, the exhaust I have is the round one. Sorry to hear of all your troubles, now the clutch gone bugger me hope it all gets sorted for you.

Thanks I will have a go, but the oblong exhaust has two holes and the baffles are at an angle, but anything is possible.

The clutch is/was not buggard, just the rubbers, new ones have been fitted and the bike is okay, the whole bill 680baht, plus 300baht tip. The couldn't find genuine Honda ones so these ones are temporary, for a few months or so.

Will let you know how the exhaust fairs.

The guy who has tyre trouble in the wet, it is the bike, they are crap in the wet so don't take liberties.

[aitch52]

The IRC standard tyre is ok for a couple of years then they go hard and are crap. I wanted to get Dunlops but he couldn't get hold of them so I went for IRC Wildflares, a much better tyre manufactured in Japan and available here for less than 5K the pair. As Alan said don't take liberties in the wet, much more stable with the Wildflares though.

[tmaker]

ok...seems the tyres are 'stiff/hard'....time to change..

already changed the oil,clutch cable( broke on the day of transfer),odometer cable,...... next would be the air filter,look at the plugs ...ummm...what else ? lol..

already finished the makeover...new paint/chrome....happy...

saw someone said he changed to Dunlop,feels very good,thats for sure......oh my...my memories is really failing me....lol....

[AllanB]

I would concur Aitch, with signs of cracking, I changed my tyres recently, they put IRC front and rear.....no cracks, but still crap in the wet.

I know from a lot of experience with cars, on and off-road, that the make of tyres can make a huge difference to handling. Dunlop are a company with decades of experience and in retrospect should have bought something better. but didn't think. Stupid of me really, since I fit good tyres to my truck, where I am protected by a ton of steel and safety stuff, but crap ones on the bike, where I am much more vulnerable. As a newbie, I really have to start thinking bike

So "slowly slowly catchy monkey", my wet weather motto.

Edited December 10, 2012 by AllanB

[AllanB]

I just had a thought as to how important the rubber compound can be to grip. Two words, "snow tyres" anyone who has tried driving without them and then with them in the snow will know what I mean, the difference is astonishing. All thanks to the special rubber compound used, well mainly anyway. They are now mandatory in many countries in Europe for winter driving.

So if anyone has tried another tyre, other than IRC, let us know what you think?

Also has anyone "chopped" a Phantom, if so any pictures, major or minor? I personally hate the back, the numberplate is too low as is the rear mudguard too long. Can the numberplate be trimmed (legally) to make it smaller?

Edited December 10, 2012 by AllanB

[JSixpack]

I just had a thought as to how important the rubber compound can be to grip. Two words, "snow tyres" anyone who has tried driving without them and then with them in the snow will know what I mean, the difference is astonishing. All thanks to the special rubber compound used, well mainly anyway. They are now mandatory in many countries in Europe for winter driving.

So if anyone has tried another tyre, other than IRC, let us know what you think?

Also has anyone "chopped" a Phantom, if so any pictures, major or minor? I personally hate the back, the numberplate is too low as is the rear mudguard too long. Can the numberplate be trimmed (legally) to make it smaller?

Looks fine, don't worry about it. You can get attention and admiration by taping a B1000 bill or credit card to your shirt/jacket.

Best resale value is for an unmodified bike.

Edited December 10, 2012 by JSixpack

[billd766]

ok...seems the tyres are 'stiff/hard'....time to change..

already changed the oil,clutch cable( broke on the day of transfer),odometer cable,...... next would be the air filter,look at the plugs ...ummm...what else ? lol..

already finished the makeover...new paint/chrome....happy...

saw someone said he changed to Dunlop,feels very good,thats for sure......oh my...my memories is really failing me....lol....

It wuz me guv, honest.

When I got my 2005 Phantom in 2009 the tyres were IRC stock and I replaced them with IRC Wildflares (thanks Aitch for the Memory jog) in March 2010 with about 15,xxx km on the clock. They were a better tyre than stock and I replaced them a year later with Dunlops that I bought from BigBendum Tyres in BKK (they will post them EMS if you want) with 32,xxx km on the clock.

The Wildflares were then 3,200 baht for the pair and the Dunlops were 4,400 baht plus 100 baht for a cranked to 90 degree tyre valve.

The Dunlops are going down a bit and I figure will need replacing in 4 or 5km but what with this time I wonder?