Web Design And Hosting - Recommendations ?

[clinique]

anyone out there recommend someone in CM for design and hosting,,

nothing flash just a few pages with hosting required..

cheers

[Beryl]

See Tim at The Garden Rajadamnern Road

[ManilaLover]

Hi, for hosting I suggest http://one.com rewarded as best AND cheapest, just the price of a can of beer per month.

Forget Thai webdesigners and Thai hosting, usually not very functional.

For more hosting options I suggest have a look at this directory http://webnavigator.org edited by myself, especially in the 3rd column section free Webhosting and Paid Webhosting you will fine every info you need on webhosting.

Spammy, scammy and creepy hosting providers (like Blue Voda with it's misleading promises) you won't find there. I tested every link on the page and they are the best choices on the web.

I have 5 websites hosted @ one.com and they are just great, far most user-friendly no hidden information.

When hiring a webdesigner be sure you keep the rights over the website, get login codes etc.

I design websites too, if you PM me I can send you a link to the website I made last week for a (very satisfied) customer abroad, including relevant details and information.

Cheers ;-)

[orang37]

... snip ... I suggest have a look at this directory http://webnavigator.org

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ManillaLover,

Just wanted to let you know that the webnavigator.org web-site has page-load errors in Internet Explorer 8 (Windows Vista SP2), and in IE8's "compatibility" mode, which is equivalent to IE7, and is not usable. The "page load error message" is appended below.

good luck, ~o:37;

"Webpage error detailsUser Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; GTB6.4; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)

Timestamp: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:44:35 UTC

Message: Object expected

Line: 827

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 834

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 847

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 891

Char: 1

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Edited February 16, 2010 by orang37

[ManilaLover]

... snip ... I suggest have a look at this directory http://webnavigator.org

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ManillaLover,

Just wanted to let you know that the webnavigator.org web-site has page-load errors in Internet Explorer 8 (Windows Vista SP2), and in IE8's "compatibility" mode, which is equivalent to IE7, and is not usable. The "page load error message" is appended below.

Hi orang37, thanks for your feedback !

This problem is unknown to me and I will forward it to the 'owner'. I just manage a .coolstart subdomain, but working on an independent, improved version on my own domain, the one mentioned above.

Cheers, Manilalover

[ManilaLover]

... snip ... I suggest have a look at this directory http://webnavigator.org

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ManillaLover,

Just wanted to let you know that the webnavigator.org web-site has page-load errors in Internet Explorer 8 (Windows Vista SP2), and in IE8's "compatibility" mode, which is equivalent to IE7, and is not usable. The "page load error message" is appended below.

good luck, ~o:37;

"Webpage error detailsUser Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 8.0; Windows NT 6.0; Trident/4.0; GTB6.4; SLCC1; .NET CLR 2.0.50727; Media Center PC 5.0; .NET CLR 3.0.30729; .NET CLR 3.5.30729; .NET4.0C; .NET4.0E)

Timestamp: Tue, 16 Feb 2010 03:44:35 UTC

Message: Object expected

Line: 827

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 834

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 847

Char: 5

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Message: Object expected

Line: 891

Char: 1

Code: 0

URI: http://webdesign.coolstart.nl/

Here in a decent browser everyhing works fine.

Only the 32th element keeps loading (due to poor thai internet quality) but after 5 seconds it stops.

Try also Maxthon, Opera, Chrome, Mozilla, Safari of Firefox.

[orang37]

Here in a decent browser everyhing works fine. Only the 32th element keeps loading (due to poor thai internet quality) but after 5 seconds it stops. Try also Maxthon, Opera, Chrome, Mozilla, Safari of Firefox.

Well, the instant of credibility you had, based on your first post, has just gone out the window.

For you to dismiss the feedback sent to you by implying we are not using a "decent browser" is just : laughable. The idea that an html page element would be re-loading frequently because of "poor Thai internet quality" is : ridiculous : the logical hypothesis to assume would be that the page is very poorly designed and/or not standards-compliant. Note the use of the word "hypothesis."

Internet Explorer is the most widely used browser in the world ... for now ... :

Browser Use Statistics

IE version 8 is more standards-compliant in some ways than the other browser brands. And that may change three months from now given the intensity of the battle for "hearts and minds" being waged by Google, Microsoft, Apple, Mozilla, and others. Viva le change !

By the way, that statement, from our point of view, is in no way a criticism of FireFox, or other browsers : ioho it's a very good thing for the consumer to have their choice resulting from real competition. Opera is very strong in Europe, it's interesting to note (if you do the research). And, of course, within the "MacAVerse" you are going to find most users are using Safari or FireFox. We really look foward to the evolution of Chrome !

We don't get involved in the "religious" aspects of hardware or software, in the ways people "fall in love" and "socially identify" with different brands of hardware and/or browsers : we've been involved in technology since 1985 intensely : it's all boxes-chips-and-software to us. Our particular choice of IE8 at this time has to with our own technical software development efforts.

From our point of view, technically, the evolution of the JQuery library, and its near universal adoption (by Microsoft and everybody else) is more important in the long run than the "browser wars" : the nature of what jQuery is, and its smashing technical success, is, from our point of view, an indictment of how bad JavaScript is : as if, in a world of three wheeled carts, suddenly there appeared a four-wheeled cart, and everyone had an "aha" moment, and, from then on, no one could remember why they had ever used three-wheeled carts

Those of you who know the history of JavaScript know it has very little to do with Java : they just tacked the name "Java" on a script language that was something like (semantically kin to) Java which was used for internal use at NetScape (first named 'Mocha, then named 'LiveScript) : for years Microsoft insisted on referring to it as ECMAScript (NetScape submitted the technology to ECMA, a global standards body, and it was approved as a standard under the name 'EcmaScript'). It's also the direct result of a marketing deal between Sun and NetScape where Sun allowed NetScape to use the word "Java" in exchange for NetScape packing up the Java run-time with their browser.

Once again : we are not "demonizing" JavaScript here : it's fine for what it was (and was always much better, as a kind of junior programming language, than the old VBScript that Microsoft once pushed which did lock you into using Microsoft browsers only : in just the same way that Apple is now locking their iPhone and future IPad users into using the Apple company store).

The real dis-connect is between HTML (even with CSS added on to it to abstract out style from content), and whatever scripting language, and security concerns. That whole stratified conglomeration of over-layed technologies has become a "dinosaur."

And that "dinosaur" is part of the motivation for erasing the distinction between what are now "desktop applications" and the internet via "web applications" (rich clients, RIA's, etc., the "Cloud" and so forth).

We are not a Microsoft "devotee" : for example, we think ASP.NET, and with the Ajax and MVC "grafts" onto ASP.NET, frankly suck. And we'd go with PhP for web design, using JQuery ... as of ... right now.

We also look forward to the coming of HMTL 5, and the fact that Adobe/MacroMedia (where we used to work a long time ago before they acquired MacroMedia) is now really under great pressure to innovate since neither the new IPad from Apple, or the just annouced Windows Mobile 7, support Flash ... yet.

Flash is a staggering giant that "owns" the world (even sources critical of Adobe will agree it probably has over ninety-per cent penetration of all browser users, while Adobe will argue for at least 98%). And you no have Flash : you no have YouTube, for example. Also Flash is in no way an "open ecosystem" for softare developers : distrubution is subject to approval by Adobe, and agreement to a EULA, and even some of the best software (even "forensic level") designed to remove your history of browsing the internet cannot remove the internal list of stuff you've used Flash to visit/see.

Many advocates of "open source software" argue that there is something open-source that can equal the quality and features of Flash, the very "openness" of the internet itself is threatened (fyi : we're not into the "open source" thing, either).

"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure."

Mark Twain

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 17, 2010 by orang37

[chiangmaibruce]

To the OP

Another avenue to consider are the CityLife people (who produce the magazine). They also do web site design. There may be cheaper and better but for a small basic job they were pleasant to deal with.

If you search the discussion threads and forums (as I did last year when helping my Mrs choose a host) the consensus seems to be to forget about hosting in Thailand. Probably go for one of the big USA hosting companies that are fast, reliable and offer a lot of extras for an economical price

- CB

[Drew Aitch]

One of the first things to do when looking for a web designer/developer, is check out their own site and portfolio. If it is poorly maintained and has broken links, bad navigation etc, then avoid them like the plague, that's all I can say.

Their site should be their showcase. You never get a second chance to make a first impression in this game, and even if you're a novice, yet find it difficult to locate stuff, or their site is uneasy on the eye, then cross them off your list, even for s simple project. Tip: Don't be tempted by low cost!

The World Wide Web is awash with wannabe web designers and web developers, and there's not a webmaster in existence that hasn't got a horror story to tell. Usually deadlines are missed not by weeks, but by months on larger projects, and more often than not they can’t do, or won't do, exactly as agreed at the start. As time drags on (and they've received their money), communication becomes trying at times and frustrations/stress levels can go through the roof.

Give me any website and I bet I can produce you a mini report with a multitude of errors and SEO faults in less than 10 minutes. Even the sites of supposed SEO companies! Go figure!

Oh, and just in case anyone asks, yes I do design websites, but no I don't build sites for other people but merely control my own projects when ability allows it.

That said, if anyone wants a second opinion on a web designer/developer, let me know and I'll do a quick check for you (any location/nationality). As you have probably guessed, these types are a pet hate of mine

Cheers

Aitch

[Loaded]

....Spammy, scammy and creepy hosting providers (like Blue Voda with it's misleading promises) you won't find there......

I tried Blue Voda. Once they have your credit card details, you'll find it very difficult to cancel the yearly charge even after you stop using them. Luckily my card expired and I didn't need to worry but I still receive their spam telling me the end of the world is coming if I don't reactivate my account.

Edited February 17, 2010 by Loaded

[wynzlo]

DreamHost and HostGator are two huge hosting companies and I know a number of folks who are quite happy with their services. The prices on their site aren't the cheapest, but you can easily dig up promo codes to knock off a good chunk of the price.

[ManilaLover]

Here in a decent browser everyhing works fine. Only the 32th element keeps loading (due to poor thai internet quality) but after 5 seconds it stops. Try also Maxthon, Opera, Chrome, Mozilla, Safari of Firefox.

Well, the instant of credibility you had, based on your first post, has just gone out the window.

For you to dismiss the feedback sent to you by implying we are not using a "decent browser" is just : laughable. The idea that an html page element would be re-loading frequently because of "poor Thai internet quality" is : ridiculous : the logical hypothesis to assume would be that the page is very poorly designed and/or not standards-compliant. Note the use of the word "hypothesis."

Internet Explorer is the most widely used browser in the world ... for now ... :

Browser Use Statistics

IE version 8 is more standards-compliant in some ways than the other browser brands. And that may change three months from now given the intensity of the battle for "hearts and minds" being waged by Google, Microsoft, Apple, Mozilla, and others. Viva le change !

By the way, that statement, from our point of view, is in no way a criticism of FireFox, or other browsers : ioho it's a very good thing for the consumer to have their choice resulting from real competition. Opera is very strong in Europe, it's interesting to note (if you do the research). And, of course, within the "MacAVerse" you are going to find most users are using Safari or FireFox. We really look foward to the evolution of Chrome !

We don't get involved in the "religious" aspects of hardware or software, in the ways people "fall in love" and "socially identify" with different brands of hardware and/or browsers : we've been involved in technology since 1985 intensely : it's all boxes-chips-and-software to us. Our particular choice of IE8 at this time has to with our own technical software development efforts.

From our point of view, technically, the evolution of the JQuery library, and its near universal adoption (by Microsoft and everybody else) is more important in the long run than the "browser wars" : the nature of what jQuery is, and its smashing technical success, is, from our point of view, an indictment of how bad JavaScript is : as if, in a world of three wheeled carts, suddenly there appeared a four-wheeled cart, and everyone had an "aha" moment, and, from then on, no one could remember why they had ever used three-wheeled carts

Those of you who know the history of JavaScript know it has very little to do with Java : they just tacked the name "Java" on a script language that was something like (semantically kin to) Java which was used for internal use at NetScape (first named 'Mocha, then named 'LiveScript) : for years Microsoft insisted on referring to it as ECMAScript (NetScape submitted the technology to ECMA, a global standards body, and it was approved as a standard under the name 'EcmaScript'). It's also the direct result of a marketing deal between Sun and NetScape where Sun allowed NetScape to use the word "Java" in exchange for NetScape packing up the Java run-time with their browser.

Once again : we are not "demonizing" JavaScript here : it's fine for what it was (and was always much better, as a kind of junior programming language, than the old VBScript that Microsoft once pushed which did lock you into using Microsoft browsers only : in just the same way that Apple is now locking their iPhone and future IPad users into using the Apple company store).

The real dis-connect is between HTML (even with CSS added on to it to abstract out style from content), and whatever scripting language, and security concerns. That whole stratified conglomeration of over-layed technologies has become a "dinosaur."

And that "dinosaur" is part of the motivation for erasing the distinction between what are now "desktop applications" and the internet via "web applications" (rich clients, RIA's, etc., the "Cloud" and so forth).

We are not a Microsoft "devotee" : for example, we think ASP.NET, and with the Ajax and MVC "grafts" onto ASP.NET, frankly suck. And we'd go with PhP for web design, using JQuery ... as of ... right now.

We also look forward to the coming of HMTL 5, and the fact that Adobe/MacroMedia (where we used to work a long time ago before they acquired MacroMedia) is now really under great pressure to innovate since neither the new IPad from Apple, or the just annouced Windows Mobile 7, support Flash ... yet.

Flash is a staggering giant that "owns" the world (even sources critical of Adobe will agree it probably has over ninety-per cent penetration of all browser users, while Adobe will argue for at least 98%). And you no have Flash : you no have YouTube, for example. Also Flash is in no way an "open ecosystem" for softare developers : distrubution is subject to approval by Adobe, and agreement to a EULA, and even some of the best software (even "forensic level") designed to remove your history of browsing the internet cannot remove the internal list of stuff you've used Flash to visit/see.

Many advocates of "open source software" argue that there is something open-source that can equal the quality and features of Flash, the very "openness" of the internet itself is threatened (fyi : we're not into the "open source" thing, either).

"First get your facts; then you can distort them at your leisure."

Mark Twain

best, ~o:37;

CAT CMDA (used to be the best internet in Thailand...)

Very interesting and agree about most points etc, but before you continue your outcry, please contact your THAI internet provider !

Internet in Afhanistan must be better right now !!!!

[chiangmaiexpat]

Give me any website and I bet I can produce you a mini report with a multitude of errors and SEO faults in less than 10 minutes. Even the sites of supposed SEO companies! Go figure!

Oh, and just in case anyone asks, yes I do design websites, but no I don't build sites for other people but merely control my own projects when ability allows it.

That said, if anyone wants a second opinion on a web designer/developer, let me know and I'll do a quick check for you (any location/nationality). As you have probably guessed, these types are a pet hate of mine

Why is that? As a software engineer and (former) owner of a software company, I find these comments misleading. It's almost always possible to find errors. The question what is the ratio of errors and how relevant are they.

As with everything, in web development you get what you pay for. To produce a reasonably complex website with a good measure of interactive functionality requires three types of skills: 1. visual/artistic skills, 2. programming skills, 3. marketing/SEO skills. You rarely find these skills combined in one person, therefore, web development companies usually employ specialists with different skill sets. It's not surprising that the services of a company are usually more expensive than that of a freelancer.

Another thing to keep in mind is that websites (or software products in general) can only be as good as the specifications. Therefore it is important for clients to work out specifications carefully and communicate them well, best in writing. Vague specifications and frequent change requests are a recipe for disaster as they increase costs and number of defects. Again, companies employ project managers who specialise in this aspect of development. Like most complex products, websites are hardly ever flawless. A good measure of quality is the initial number of defects as a quotient of total code lines. It's also important that the developer provides maintainance service in order to fix defects that are discovered later.

Finally, while hosting is not completely irrelevant, it is typically only a negligible fraction of the TOC. It is much easier to change the host than to change the software. Hence, more care should go into the selection of the web developer than into the selection of the host. It is not unusual that a person/company with little experience offers services at a fraction of the cost of a qualified professional, especially here in Thailand. Expect the number of defects and difficulties in managing the project to be accordingly high.

Cheers, CMX

[ManilaLover]

....Spammy, scammy and creepy hosting providers (like Blue Voda with it's misleading promises) you won't find there......

I tried Blue Voda. Once they have your credit card details, you'll find it very difficult to cancel the yearly charge even after you stop using them. Luckily my card expired and I didn't need to worry but I still receive their spam telling me the end of the world is coming if I don't reactivate my account.

Bleu Voda is a scam, everywhere they shouting around about their 'free websitemaker' but right after you spend days creating your website on 'their' pagecreator (that is not even their product) you will be suprised by information they did not give you before... if you ever want to see your newly ceated website online you will have to marry them, or your work will become totally useless.

But this kind of lying seems to become normal, like everywhere you can 'download for free' but only after a payment you can use the shit, or: 100% free shopping at Tesco, only on exit you need to pay for everything... cheap and discusting.

So far one.com is the best hosting provider I used, no bragging (european company), very clear information, VERY EASY user interface , live chat support even for non members, standard a huge serverspace, many extras.

Edited February 18, 2010 by ManilaLover

[chiangmaiexpat]

IE version 8 is more standards-compliant in some ways than the other browser brands.

I am not sure if this is true.

IE8 is certainly better and more W3C-compliant than its predecessors, but in the everlasting battle for market share, it has also introduced new non-standard (sigh!) features. In my opinion, the best thing about IE8 is that it will further decrease usage of the really horribly non-compliant IE6, since more users will feel compelled to upgrade.

I'd wish for W3C to to push HTML 5 with a little more force, since we are stagnating at HTML 4.x for more than a decade now. The new HTML 5 APIs could solve at least half of the problems with proprietary RIA technologies, which are the cause for many compatibility headaches.

Cheers, CMX

Edited February 18, 2010 by chiangmaiexpat

[orang37]

IE version 8 is more standards-compliant in some ways than the other browser brands.

I am not sure if this is true.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ChiangMaiExpat,

You are certainly right to question that statement, and do note that what came right after that statement in the original message : "And that may change three months from now given the intensity of the battle ..." was intended to somewhat disclaimer that statement, to suggest that the intense ferment and competition going on (which was expounded more fully later in the original message) between the major browser makers, and the flux and change, and politics, in the standards-making bodies themselves ... make only "temporary truths" available here.

Which, we think, from the "ass is half-bull" perspective is really a good thing for the consumer in the long run.

We won't bother to mention here that the teaching of Ur-Orang that : "all truths are temporary, but some stay fresh longer" : is as dear to our hearts and minds as fresh soy-milk

IE8 is certainly better and more W3C-compliant than its predecessors, but in the everlasting battle for market share, it has also introduced new non-standard (sigh!) features. In my opinion, the best thing about IE8 is that it will further decrease usage of the really horribly non-compliant IE6, since more users will feel compelled to upgrade.

You and us certainly agree on the "doghood" of IE6, but our guess is we'd also agree that various versions of the "other browsers" have passed through their "dog day," versions as well (could Chrome be in the dog-house in its current version ?).

Would also propose, as a topic for friendly debate the hypothesis : every browser brand had, has, and will ... and must ... have, distinctive features beyond the W3C standards : that's a 'sine qua non' in order to differentiate the product for commercial reasons.

I'd wish for W3C to to push HTML 5 with a little more force, since we are stagnating at HTML 4.x for more than a decade now. The new HTML 5 APIs could solve at least half of the problems with proprietary RIA technologies, which are the cause for many compatibility headaches.

We really thought when ASP.NET came along that finally we'd be able to program in one language (C# in our case), one development environment (Visual Studio in our case), and produce either web applications or desktop applications : we were dreaming !

We are hoping for a "brave new world" with HTML 5, also, but think the "reality on the ground" is "war" : a war for "mind-share," primarily between Apple, Adobe, Google, Microsoft. Mozilla ? ... perhaps like Switzerland in WWII ? And behind those "players" are the big-time content providers who want to get paid for their content, and enforce DRM (Digital Rights Management). While we applaud the W3C, like we applaud the United Nations, we question how much power it has ... while hoping it will ... have power.

Just reading an article yesterday, probably a piece of "hype," showing off a purported demo of an Adobe AIR application for viewing Wired magazine (published by Condé Nast) on the IPad : Smoke and Mirrors ? : came across this juicy quote :

"Interesting choice of development partner, then, as Condé Nast has opted to use Adobe's AIR platform for the underlying mechanics. Adobe promises its Packager for iPhone, part of CS5, will allow devs to easily port AIR apps to run natively on the iPad, but until Apple gives its official assent to the final code, nothing is guaranteed -- and Packager hasn't even officially shipped yet."

To our eyes, the above paragraph is a prime cut of the holiest Swiss cheese of innuendo and subterfuge. And it characterizes the camouflage and smoke-screens being used daily in this hypotheical "mind-share war," a lot of which is written by gadget junkies and computer hardware or software addicts who are so easily "bought off" by various free little perqs, a lot of which is just some press release barely re-edited.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 18, 2010 by orang37

[Thailand]

You might even like to consider using a blog format from the likes of Wordpress, very easy to do yourself and you can update as required.

Hosting, probably outside of Thailand would be better, numerous providers available.Wordpress will provide hosting if required.

The sooner IE6 is done away with completely the better now that ICANN is approving so many domain extensions and names in the native language eg .ไทย Thailand, .中国 China, .рф Russia etc

Oops, just seen how old this thread is looks like it was reactivated with some spam in the previous post!

Edited August 13, 2010 by Thailand

[FarangCravings]

Dont get ripped off by paying a fortune because you are not familiar with websites and webhosting and building websites I own around 35 web domains and all can be got for no more than $10 a year, If you sign up with the host I use which is Hostmonster.com you get a free domain and the hosting is just $5.95 a month.

From what you need as far as a website i would use Worpress which can be loaded for you and designed for no more than $25.00 thats with a custom header and set up ready for you to enter your text. if you have the text and want it entered add $10. It literally takes 5 minutes to learn wordpress ad it will save you a lot if you can edit your own website plus you can do it instantly. If you can use word you can use wordpress.

I dont do websites Only my own but no way I pay anywhere near what web designers charge they tend to go on how familiar you are if they think you know nothing the price goes sky high for a simple job.

Cheers