Lamphun Deaths

[cmdream]

femifan I agree with some of what you write.....but there is one problem... and that is that there is a big difference between appearence and reality.

Here in Thailand there is too much effort put into making it look like you are doing something vs really doing it.

Its a lot easier to tell people you are doing something than to really do it... thats the difference.

The biggest drawback to doing things here , in reality is the lack of individual self discipline. there is very little here.... and until the Thai people find this self discipline, it will always be easier to create the image of doing something , rather than really doing it.

There you go, back to square one. ENFORCEMENT is the name of the game ! Until the Traffic Police do their job nothing will change. Until the police enforce the laws and start bagging the violators and giving stiff fines we have to defend ourselves. The education has to start at the police level. When the crazies have to start behaving on the road or pay

big baht fines they will never learn. Most Thai and farange drivers are good it is just that small minority of jerks that cause the problems and pain. If you are drunk , High, or negligent ( running a red light or speeding) and you kill someone on the road it is Manslaughter, 20 years in the slammer mandatory. IMO. Have fun out there :-)

[Gonzo the Face]

femifan I agree with some of what you write.....but there is one problem... and that is that there is a big difference between appearence and reality.

Here in Thailand there is too much effort put into making it look like you are doing something vs really doing it.

Its a lot easier to tell people you are doing something than to really do it... thats the difference.

The biggest drawback to doing things here , in reality is the lack of individual self discipline. there is very little here.... and until the Thai people find this self discipline, it will always be easier to create the image of doing something , rather than really doing it.

There you go, back to square one. ENFORCEMENT is the name of the game ! Until the Traffic Police do their job nothing will change. Until the police enforce the laws and start bagging the violators and giving stiff fines we have to defend ourselves. The education has to start at the police level. When the crazies have to start behaving on the road or pay

big baht fines they will never learn. Most Thai and farange drivers are good it is just that small minority of jerks that cause the problems and pain. If you are drunk , High, or negligent ( running a red light or speeding) and you kill someone on the road it is Manslaughter, 20 years in the slammer mandatory. IMO. Have fun out there :-)

No, I respectfully disagree, or at least partially. Square one as you say, would be before the police. The self discipline would have to start deep inside those who are breaking the laws that the police should enforce. It starts in childhood with parents not sitting on their rear, lazily watching their children grow and become violaters. The parents must learn right from wrong and enforce that into their children. They must instill pride of accomplishment and the benefits to all of each and everyone of these "growing up people" of doing things the right and correct way, not only for the good of all, but most importantly for themselves. they did it right because they feel good about it...... noone else may ever know the right thing they do/did, but each and every one on them know for themselves

[PeaceBlondie]

Thai culture. It doesn't save lives.

[cmdream]

femifan I agree with some of what you write.....but there is one problem... and that is that there is a big difference between appearence and reality.

Here in Thailand there is too much effort put into making it look like you are doing something vs really doing it.

Its a lot easier to tell people you are doing something than to really do it... thats the difference.

The biggest drawback to doing things here , in reality is the lack of individual self discipline. there is very little here.... and until the Thai people find this self discipline, it will always be easier to create the image of doing something , rather than really doing it.

There you go, back to square one. ENFORCEMENT is the name of the game ! Until the Traffic Police do their job nothing will change. Until the police enforce the laws and start bagging the violators and giving stiff fines we have to defend ourselves. The education has to start at the police level. When the crazies have to start behaving on the road or pay

big baht fines they will never learn. Most Thai and farange drivers are good it is just that small minority of jerks that cause the problems and pain. If you are drunk , High, or negligent ( running a red light or speeding) and you kill someone on the road it is Manslaughter, 20 years in the slammer mandatory. IMO. Have fun out there :-)

No, I respectfully disagree, or at least partially. Square one as you say, would be before the police. The self discipline would have to start deep inside those who are breaking the laws that the police should enforce. It starts in childhood with parents not sitting on their rear, lazily watching their children grow and become violaters. The parents must learn right from wrong and enforce that into their children. They must instill pride of accomplishment and the benefits to all of each and everyone of these "growing up people" of doing things the right and correct way, not only for the good of all, but most importantly for themselves. they did it right because they feel good about it...... noone else may ever know the right thing they do/did, but each and every one on them know for themselves

Utopia, such a dream.

[Donnyboy]

Thai culture. It doesn't save lives.

wai

[femi fan]

femifan I agree with some of what you write.....but there is one problem... and that is that there is a big difference between appearence and reality.

Here in Thailand there is too much effort put into making it look like you are doing something vs really doing it.

Its a lot easier to tell people you are doing something than to really do it... thats the difference.

The biggest drawback to doing things here , in reality is the lack of individual self discipline. there is very little here.... and until the Thai people find this self discipline, it will always be easier to create the image of doing something , rather than really doing it.

Now come on mate! People are on this thread saying thais don't change, can't evolve, can't think for themselves, etc etc, and all i was pointing out was that they're not right. All those things i listed are evidence of attempts to change, which refuted those who said thais don't change.

As to whether they are appearances or action, again, come on. Is life not just an illusion? Pork products for sale with pictures of happy pigs exclaiming that 'pure life starts here'...

As for self-discipline, you talk of this as if it's a good thing. Is it? I do bemoan sometimes thais' lack of self-responsibility for their actions, then realise i'm joining the chorus of people who look at thais as if they were some kind of homogenous mass of people. I think it's accurate to say that many thais are responsible and have self-discipline, while many others don't. Some thais go for appearances while other thais go for action.

Anyway, if we continue in the same vein of generalisations, there's not much to do in england coz the state are doing it all. And if you start to think about it, thais place great emphasis on image, yeah, but so do my countrymen back in britain. Probably everywhere...

[femi fan]

it is just that small minority of jerks that cause the problems and pain.

That's life, get used to it!

In britain, for example, this is the reason touted for the excessive red tape and state interference in people's lives, not to mention the zillions of laws these days.

So, good citizens of the world, be punished for the actions of the minority - in britain the state rule your life, in thailand you may lose your life on the roads.

Life's a danger, then we die.

[femi fan]

Thai culture. It doesn't save lives.

Does it have a duty to?

Do you want to talk about american or british culture that seems to permanently and happily destroy lives deliberately?

[krakatoa]

I only with my best student had only lost his hair. The brightest mind in Lamphun province, dead.

With respect PB (and nice to see you back at the keyboard) the brightest brain in Lamphun was just not quite bright enough.

[PeaceBlondie]

Thai culture. It doesn't save lives.

Does it have a duty to?

No, Thai culture has no duty to save lives, or to stay alive as a people. At the current rates and resistance to welcoming foreigners and changing their destructive ways, Thailand may be a vanishing breed.

[thaileader]

I live in Lamphun 3 klicks from Big C

A large truck was travelling south from Chiang Mai on highway 11 at 6.30pm on Sat 13th Feb, it ran through a set of red lights 4 kiicks before the Big C junction, in so doing it crashed into a number of motorbikes turning onto the highway 11 on green lights, 4 people were killed.

The driver who lives 500 metres from me tried to escape the scene, but was chased by police.

The junction at Big C has an overpass to avoid local traffic mostly motorbikes coming & going to work on the nearby industrial estates, these people use the old road under the overpass.

The driver of the truck veered off highway 11 and took the slip road leading to the busy junction underneath the overpass, the road was very busy with workers returning home, the truck driver again went against the red lights and ploughed into the motorbikes crossing the road on green lights, a further 12 people died, two of those was in a Vigo truck which then brought the runaway to a holt.

The police caught the driver, and according to local opinion he was pretty badly beaten up by them.

A further 3 people have died in hospital making the carnage 19

[ferd54]

A further 3 people have died in hospital making the carnage 19

Thanks for the report. This is shocking even by Thai standards. My condolences to the families.

[Tywais]

Thanks for the update thaileader. My brother in law works in that area and a friend of his video taped the aftermath on his mobile phone and sent it to him. Words fail me as to the horrific damage caused to everyone. I've elected not to post it as it is too graphic, but even more so out of courtesy to the victims and their families.

R.I.P and condolences to the families of the victims.

[MonsieurHulot]

Did the local or national press report this sickening accident?

[krakatoa]

I thoroughly agree with you 'doppa'

And whilst some are, by getting involved in semantics missing the point that 19 people (to date) are dead due to the criminal behaviour of one driver. It doesn't help that even when helmets are worn they are often not stapped on and in any event you would have as much protection using egg shell.

Some one has said that it begins with the parents teaching their children right from wrong. It won't happen in Thailand.

By either act or omission they learn to lie their way through life. Avoiding responsibilty should be one of the best attended subjects at and school in the realm.

And, education in the realm is in general terms a joke. I drove past two of the top schools in Chiang Mai this morning (and yesterday) and there are literally hundreds of students attending. Why do they go to school on a Saturday and Sunday?

it's a combination of several things, (a) they are being baby sitted. ( keeps them off the streets and © because they are not being taught effectively when they attend school Monday thru Friday.

[cdnvic]

One post and its replies deleted. If you can't make your point without name calling go elsewhere and come back when you are capable.

[Tywais]

Post discussing moderation and it's response deleted. Suggest not to post off topic again and read the forum rules.

[mcgriffith]

RIP, poor fellow human beings.

[cerbera]

Like everything in life... there is a compromise. to get one thing you have to give up something else. Every once in a while there is a disaster that brings everyone together in a common cause.

I kind of like the wild west atmosphere of Thailand. You are free to kill yourself by doing something stupid. If your wits and attention is not on high alert at all times it is easy to get killed or maimed. In the wild west of North America the fur trappers went into hostile indian country to earn a meagre existence. They could have made more money by working in some factory, but they chose the freedom of suriving on their wits and strength. The lucky and smart trappers survived, and the not so lucky lost their hair.

It wasn't quite that traumatic when I lost my hair, but I've certainly had some close calls in Thailand. It's like living in a real live video game... only for real.

Completely inappropriate post. Completely irrelevant remarks again. No smiley emoticon needed on this subject. No light hearted "funny" remarks about YOU thanks.

These poor people had no choice they were wiped out by a truck. They werent being reckless.

Edited February 21, 2010 by cerbera

[Gonzo the Face]

Like everything in life... there is a compromise. to get one thing you have to give up something else. Every once in a while there is a disaster that brings everyone together in a common cause.

I kind of like the wild west atmosphere of Thailand. You are free to kill yourself by doing something stupid. If your wits and attention is not on high alert at all times it is easy to get killed or maimed. In the wild west of North America the fur trappers went into hostile indian country to earn a meagre existence. They could have made more money by working in some factory, but they chose the freedom of suriving on their wits and strength. The lucky and smart trappers survived, and the not so lucky lost their hair.

It wasn't quite that traumatic when I lost my hair, but I've certainly had some close calls in Thailand. It's like living in a real live video game... only for real.

Completely inappropriate post. Completely irrelevant remarks again. No smiley emoticon needed on this subject. No light hearted "funny" remarks about YOU thanks.

These poor people had no choice they were wiped out by a truck. They werent being reckless.

I find nothing wrong with Ian's post..... you apparently do...... that is your opinion to which you are entitled . But WE do not and are not forced into accepting your opinions or mandates.

Yes it is sad and tragic, and I am sure Ian, being the person he is, feels compassion for the loss of so many lives and the feelings of their loved ones.

May they all find peace whereever they are and for those family members, who must be suffering now, may peace be with you

G

[krakatoa]

Like everything in life... there is a compromise. to get one thing you have to give up something else. Every once in a while there is a disaster that brings everyone together in a common cause.

I kind of like the wild west atmosphere of Thailand. You are free to kill yourself by doing something stupid. If your wits and attention is not on high alert at all times it is easy to get killed or maimed. In the wild west of North America the fur trappers went into hostile indian country to earn a meagre existence. They could have made more money by working in some factory, but they chose the freedom of suriving on their wits and strength. The lucky and smart trappers survived, and the not so lucky lost their hair.

It wasn't quite that traumatic when I lost my hair, but I've certainly had some close calls in Thailand. It's like living in a real live video game... only for real.

Completely inappropriate post. Completely irrelevant remarks again. No smiley emoticon needed on this subject. No light hearted "funny" remarks about YOU thanks.

These poor people had no choice they were wiped out by a truck. They werent being reckless.

"they werent being reckless"

There is no evidence that they were not being reckless.

The guy driving the truck was a psychopath (as many drivers are in the realm) but there is still the distinct possibility that at less some of the motorcyclists did contribute to their fate in some way.

[orang37]

Cerbera wrote :

These poor people had no choice they were wiped out by a truck. They werent being reckless.

Krakatoa responded :

There is no evidence that they were not being reckless. The guy driving the truck was a psychopath (as many drivers are in the realm) but there is still the distinct possibility that at less some of the motorcyclists did contribute to their fate in some way.

We cannot imagine what logic (or religious beliefs, or philosophy) could lead to a hypothesis (or, even the act of imagining) that any of the tragically dead victims of an-out-of control driver "did contribute to their fate in some way."

This does remind us of a certain passage in Joseph Heller's "Catch 22" (which GDPJohn quotes frequently here on ThaiVisa) where Captain Black, determined to prove Major Major was a communist, tries to force Doctor Daneeka into refusing medical treatment for Major Major who is being starved to death for refusing to sign the loyalty oath :

Captain Black : You're not against Catch-22, are you?"

Doc Daneeka : Doc Daneeka was adamant, "What makes you so sure Major Major is a Communist?"

Captain Black : "You never heard him denying it until we began accusing him, did you?

Even without evidence : we conclude that everyone posting here has a human heart, and feels compassion for needless loss of life, including you.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 22, 2010 by orang37

[orang37]

In response to a post from Khun Ian, Khun Cerbera wrote :

Completely inappropriate post. Completely irrelevant remarks again. No smiley emoticon needed on this subject. No light hearted "funny" remarks about YOU thanks. These poor people had no choice they were wiped out by a truck. They werent being reckless.

If you read this entire thread, you will find Khun Ian expressed his remorse quite clearly in an earlier post :

As much as I feel sorrow for the injured and the families of the deceased

In any case, this is an open discussion forum, and your condemnation of Ian's later post is just indulging in self-righteousness : which we find much more disturbing than Ian's colorful comments on the "wild west" aspect of life in Thailand : which is, in the context of quite a bit of whacky discussion (with astounding generalizations falling like particulate matter in Lampang) on this thread regarding Thai "culture," ioho quite on-topic.

We feel certain that everyone posting here has a human heart, and feels compassion for needless loss of life, including you.

best, ~o:37;

Edited February 22, 2010 by orang37

[LomSak27]

Question - I do not live in CM but haven't heard a word about it in the Nation or BPost - Is this typical?

[krakatoa]

Question - I do not live in CM but haven't heard a word about it in the Nation or BPost - Is this typical?

Yes!!! Bad for tourism.

[ferd54]

Question - I do not live in CM but haven't heard a word about it in the Nation or BPost - Is this typical?

I don't know but how typical, but "19 killed in traffic rampage" should be international news. The Nation and Post are both crap anyway. They do their best, but its the typical tale of low wages, poor treatment of staff (I know several editors who used to work at the Nation), Thai chaos and arrogance. Just look at the typos in many of the Nation's stories. I wouldn't dream of trying to write for publication in a foreign language -- but they happily go about it and it shows (a lot). Ya right, they really don't need foreigners or to take good care of the ones they have.

[gotlost]

The Chiang Mai mail is no better on reporting

http://' target="_blank">11 killed in accident in Lamphun

A ten wheeled truck, fleeing a previous accident, ran a red light around 8 PM in Lamphun, killing 11 people. The accident occurred at the Northern Region Industrial Estate intersection in Lamphun last Saturday, February 13.

The Lamphun police said 4 of the dead were employees of L-TEC company, 2 worked at Lamphun Hospital, 2 from the Hoya Company, and 3 more whose place of work was unknown. The injured were admitted to the Haripunchai Memorial Hospital.

Police said the truck ran the red light at a time when many people were returning home from work in the area

[PeaceBlondie]

The Chiang Mai mail is no better on reporting

Much better, IMHO.

[gotlost]

The Chiang Mai mail is no better on reporting

Much better, IMHO.

The count is 19 and the mail says 11 ? RIP

[PeaceBlondie]

The Chiang Mai mail is no better on reporting

Much better, IMHO.

The count is 19 and the mail says 11 ? RIP

11 may have been the initial report. At least they reported the tragedy.