Foreign Tourists Urged To Stay Away From Bangkok

[geriatrickid]

more bullshit scaremongering from WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) based country's.

even in full demonstration and political upheaval mode, bkk is no more dangerous than driving through East Ham, Moss Side or Bankstown at night....now, that's fuc_king scary. give me bkk upheaval any day.

Today's ignorant comment comes courtesy of this person. There are so many things wrong with the comment For your reading pleasure, I will explain why this is a comment that is ignorant.

1. Canada is not a white anglo saxon protestant country.

i) White? Canada is country with a large visible minority population. Approx. 1 out of 6 is a visible minority. This doesn't include the wide assortment of non-visible foreign ethnicities like Poles, Germans, Dutch etc. And in addition there are over 1million people with aboriginal ancestory in Canada.

ii) Anglo Saxon? Only 28% of the poulation traces its roots back to the British Isles, and I do not think the Irish, Welsh and Scottish folks that make up a large part of the percentage would be too pleased to be called Anglo Saxon.

iii) Protestant? What century are you living in? People that can be termed as Protestant only represent 29% of the population.

2. The Canadian warnings have not changed significantly in a year. However, the reminder about Canadians being responsible for their decision to be in Thailand has been strengthened. There is an explicit and Official Avoid All Travel warning in effect for Khao Phra Viharn, the far southern provinces of Narathiwat, Pattani, Yala, and Songkhla (including the city of Hat Yai), and avoid non essential travel on the Burmese border for Tak and Mae Hong, Aside from that, there is a warning to avoid all demonstrations. Like DUH

The reason for the Canadian position is that the Canadian taxpayers are fed up of having to foot the bill to rescue Canadians that proceed to trouble spots. Canada spent C$85million to evacuate 50,000 Canadians that were in Lebanon. Within 1 year of the situation settling down, 7000 "Canadians" returned to Lebanon. A great many of these people took advantage of immigration loopholes and lax refugee laws to claim citizenship and landed immigrant status. They have not paid taxes to Canada.

Now fast forward to Thailand. The Canadian government has received a long litany of complaints from Canadian tourists in respect to crime. Short of launching an invasion, there is not much the Canadian government can do when a national is victimized in Thailand. The foreign minister came out 6 months ago and warned citizens about visiting danger zones and suggested they think twice before going to places like Thailand and Mexico, The reason the warning has gone up is that there is a taxpaying public fed up of rescuing what are perceived as non contributing citizens. This is the by product of the Lebanese ripoff and now a medicare scam involving Lebanese, North Africans and a small number of Latin Americans flying in to claim refugee status claim medicare cards and sharing the cards with friends and families as they obtain subsidized medical care.

Sorry, if that is unpleasant to some, but now add in the negative image of Thailand in Canada. The popular press often describes its nationals in Thailand as deviants in a country associated with sex tourism. (Google the news stories from Canada that mention Thailand: It's either crime against Canadians or the sex trade). It's an unfair image, but Thailand has done nothing to counter that perception.

Please read the additional travel advisory. it is a responsible statement that says citizens must take responsibility for their travel decisions.

The decision to travel is the sole responsibility of the traveller. Travellers are responsible for their own personal safety. The Government of Canada takes the safety and security of Canadians abroad very seriously and provides credible and timely advice in its Travel Reports. In the event of a crisis situation that requires evacuation, the Government of Canada's policy is to provide safe transportation to the closest safe location. Canada will assist Canadians in leaving a country or a region as a last resort, when all means of commercial or personal transportation have been exhausted. This service is provided on a cost-recovery basis. Onward travel is at the individual's personal expense. Situations vary from one location to another, and there may be constraints on government resources, which can limit the ability of the Government of Canada to provide assistance, particularly in countries or regions where the potential for violent conflict or political instability are high.

3. If some ninny sees no danger in going near a large demonstration in Thailand, particularly with the past history of petrol bombs, explosives and driveby shootings, then that says it all. To such people I say, please, by all means go and have a blast.

And now in consideration of the above, I trust you will understand why the comment was ignorant.

Edited February 17, 2010 by geriatrickid

[meelousee]

It sounds like the court ruling is a forgone conclusion?

TCT secretary-general Pornthip Hirunkate yesterday said the council had sent advice to all its members to help them deal with the political situation and the potential for violence as the court ruling in ex-prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's assets-seizure case approaches.

A few questions remain will they actualy seize all of FPM Taksin's assets? Will they do this knowing that it will surly bring violence? And lastly will the protest be banned under the flag of a "National Emergency" allowing police an military to arrest groups of 10 or more?

In addition I read in some of the comments about TCT and TAT that they are getting ready crisis plans. Some of you must understand that many of the Thai organizations are in uniform and are charged with such tasks as part of the civil defense groups.

Lastly airports, did you know?

The other international airports are in Phuket, Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, Koh Samui and Hat Yai. These airports are linked by domestic flights, either directly or through Bangkok. No need to buss them around. There are direct flights from Malaysia, Singapore, London, Hong Kong to Phuket, Chiang Mai, and Hat Yai. There are others but this is just so you know. The real problem with this may be accommodations.

[Condoman]

Oh yea break out the beers and start toasting the marshmallows and sit back and watch the fireworks.

I take it that's meant to be funny....but it isn't!

No it isn't! It's really really really funny

[chlear909]

Oh yea break out the beers and start toasting the marshmallows and sit back and watch the fireworks.

I take it that's meant to be funny....but it isn't!

entertaining dual post award here

[dutchweller]

I wonder did Australia Issue a Travel waring not to go to Sydney during the The 2005 Cronulla riots?

That was some crazy shit..

At least in Thailand you can s\pot who to avoid Red, yellow, Black, Brown, Shirts...

[lifeincnx]

Oh, that's great. Come on red and yellow, together we can help stop the flow of foreign visitors so we can cripple the Thai economy even further.

Form circle then shoot.

[BIGTOE3]

1459 users reading this topic and 1125 of them are guests ? WHY ? ARE TOURISTS WORRIED ?????

bt

[grahamhc]

Where is the major gateway airport for the country............

Aim gun, shoot foot.

Last year it was U-Tapao, for a couple of weeks and only 40 Km from Pattaya.

The business owners and Hoteliers would welcome the re-claimed trade, as it is quiet here at the moment, since the last shot in the foot.

[Robbie Dye]

Guess next months Tom Jones concert is off then!

Why???? The Welsh are not scared of a few red shirts!!

[teacherpaul]

Oh grow up and get a sense of humour.

This is minor league stuff. Like watching the red ants fighting the black ants. Pathetic!

As soon as the problem gets big enough to worry about, someone will have Thaksin knocked off.

Oh yea break out the beers and start toasting the marshmallows and sit back and watch the fireworks.

I take it that's meant to be funny....but it isn't!

[fred110]

Will the Reds or Yellows get that plane load of weapons from N. Korea? Maybe they will blow themselves up.

[Jonathanpattaya]

Well this topic certainly has inspired some really intelligent posts, hasn't it?

[RegularReader]

Sorry to say this, but when as a country it is decided that allowing protest groups to take over a major international airport, you cannot very well be surprised if foreign tourists and authorities get jumpy about their travel arrangements. When it is common place for groups to be able to defy law enforcement and take over important parts of the city with the inevitable result that the army or riot police have to be brought in, don't get surprised that your average tourist doesn't bother to work out that the problem is isolated to one part of the city.

If someone called me up and said "Sir, we advise that despite you having booked to travel to Bangkok, we recommend that you go to Hua Hin instead because Bangkok will be too dangerous", I wouldn't draw breath before I asked them for a refund. To 99.9999% of travellers the risk just isn't worth it. It isn't as though the protesters have no history of approaching and being allowed to mess around with airports.

Furthermore, I am so glad that they are waiting until the 23rd to have this urgent meeting to plan and organise their plan for problems that will come only a couple of days later. Well done Mr. Tourism minister, I am glad to see that you have your finger on the pulse. Thai management at it's best.

However, WHO takes the "credits" for this one now - the "grand savior" of Thailand?

As to "who" takes the credit, I don't see any winners here. The blame doesn't lie at only one man's feet.

The political system has been so rotten in Thailand for so long that there was a certain inevitability about all of this. God know how many coups, how much corruption on all sides, politicisation of the armed forces, conflicts about division of power have gone on over the years. When benefit is seen to be gained through connection over ability for long enough, people get annoyed. When laws are re-written at the barrel of a gun for long enough, people get annoyed.

We all know the main reason behind most of the problems, and the issue has been put off in typically Thai fashion until today when the people have to suffer for it. There is no other problem in this country other than the insatiable greed of people at the top of business, politics, armed forces and public service in this country on ALL sides of the supposed political spectrum.

I don't believe the concept of "public service" exists in Thailand. Certainly when there is a chance to get ahead.

As another long term resident in Thailand, I agree with most of your statement T@H. Anybody who has been here a while understands (to some extent) what is going on right now, is a bit like a volcano about to erupt. But it's also a volcano, whose fires (the frustration of so many people)are being stoked, by one man's desire for revenge and getting his money back.

This appears to be presenting a picture of inevitability about a major blow out on or before 26th February. I would ask "why is it so"?

And, just as importantly, "who is it for" ?

Is it possible Thai people are getting very sick of all this (from all sides) ?

As a person with a long term involvment (16+ years) with the country and its people, I think, slowly this is becoming a more prevelant opinion than offering support to one side , or another.

Many Thai are starting to understand the effect it is having on their lives.

If the UDD had been able to organize their oft threatened "million man march", then I would say these travel warnings are very valid in terms of one's safety. But as is pointed out by Geriatric Kid in his post, governments such as the Candian (and Australian) are bound to issue these warnings for reasons he outlined - if a bit emotionally (about taxes) - to protect themselves from their own citizens (and insurance companies and lawyers) as much as warning people to "be careful".

Edited February 17, 2010 by RegularReader

[gemini81]

hope all passes peacefully, would be a shame if Thai nationals or tourists end up injured over a criminal fugitive's personal finances. What a proposterous thought, to fight over something such as this.

[Tex79]

1459 users reading this topic and 1125 of them are guests ? WHY ? ARE TOURISTS WORRIED ?????

bt

A far chunk of them could be members who are sent email news updates but haven't bothered to login

[Sunfarmer]

g'day folks.

Isn't this sad?

Watching from over here in Australia, many of us are deeply concerned by the tensions and political divisions wracking Thai society.

There are obvious advantages to being an outsider. For one thing its much safer... I have first hand knowledge of what can happen in Thai political life. My first visit to Bangkok on October 1976 as a niave student branded me with some hideous scenes near the university.

The other obvious advantage to being an outsider is that I can look with fresh but sympathetic eyes, from outside the fishbowl.... and give you and idea of how it looks from over here.

The red yellow divide is not about this or that billionaire... it is about power, legitimacy and essentially economic issues. It is about Thailand's awkward dance with democracy.

Thailand has a fragile state. It is, in every sense a true and genuine monarchy. The King provides Thais of all shirt colours with their national identity and with their notion of long term stability as a nation. Not so their political institutions -the police, the courts, the army - everything there is tainted. All the Thais I have ever met - of both red, yellow and all shades in between, - quite rightly - regard their political institutions as universally corrupt and dirty.

Like I said, they are right. They see it and experience it everyday. It is a tough game. And in Thai politics they play for keeps. They also play for keeps in Malaysia. And Burma. And Viet Nam ... Did someone say Kampuchea ...

I know it is a bit much to expect Thailand to stand alone as a bastion of democracy and negotiated civil society when it is living in such company and has its roots in such soil. But there are also things about Thailand - about the Thai people - that make them special. They inspire hope.

The civil state - democratic institutions - will not become strong in Thailand while the fundamental social and economic divisions - the real red-yellow clash - are not negotiated and addressed. The anger and provocation builds up like a pressure cooker. I hope that the way of "solving the problem" this time is not a replay of previous efforts.

I don't know what to do about any of this, and it is not my idea to offer any well-meaning advice from the sidelines...I wear blue T shirts myself ... it is probably too late now to avoid anything that might happen, I suspect... Thailand is just spiralling into a brawl of some sort or another. If not now, sometime soon.

Like I said, very sad.

I hope everyone stays safe on the 23rd.

Sunfarmer

[aeon]

They should launch a new tv soap opera on the 26th february, so everyone will stay home

[skydiver77]

Guess next months Tom Jones concert is off then!

Why???? The Welsh are not scared of a few red shirts!!

Being half Welsh, I can confirm that the Welsh are afraid of nothing, after warbling a good tune and sinking a few pots down.

Only professional sheep worriers, tend to get a bit worried when on the job. Well so would you, with 500 sheep right behind you.

[99BigLad99]

only one thing to say "not again "

[RegularReader]

g'day folks.

Isn't this sad?

Watching from over here in Australia, many of us are deeply concerned by the tensions and political divisions wracking Thai society.

There are obvious advantages to being an outsider. For one thing its much safer... I have first hand knowledge of what can happen in Thai political life. My first visit to Bangkok on October 1976 as a niave student branded me with some hideous scenes near the university.

The other obvious advantage to being an outsider is that I can look with fresh but sympathetic eyes, from outside the fishbowl.... and give you and idea of how it looks from over here.

The red yellow divide is not about this or that billionaire... it is about power, legitimacy and essentially economic issues. It is about Thailand's awkward dance with democracy.

Thailand has a fragile state. It is, in every sense a true and genuine monarchy. The King provides Thais of all shirt colours with their national identity and with their notion of long term stability as a nation. Not so their political institutions -the police, the courts, the army - everything there is tainted. All the Thais I have ever met - of both red, yellow and all shades in between, - quite rightly - regard their political institutions as universally corrupt and dirty.

Like I said, they are right. They see it and experience it everyday. It is a tough game. And in Thai politics they play for keeps. They also play for keeps in Malaysia. And Burma. And Viet Nam ... Did someone say Kampuchea ...

I know it is a bit much to expect Thailand to stand alone as a bastion of democracy and negotiated civil society when it is living in such company and has its roots in such soil. But there are also things about Thailand - about the Thai people - that make them special. They inspire hope.

The civil state - democratic institutions - will not become strong in Thailand while the fundamental social and economic divisions - the real red-yellow clash - are not negotiated and addressed. The anger and provocation builds up like a pressure cooker. I hope that the way of "solving the problem" this time is not a replay of previous efforts.

I don't know what to do about any of this, and it is not my idea to offer any well-meaning advice from the sidelines...I wear blue T shirts myself ... it is probably too late now to avoid anything that might happen, I suspect... Thailand is just spiralling into a brawl of some sort or another. If not now, sometime soon.

Like I said, very sad.

I hope everyone stays safe on the 23rd.

Sunfarmer

Sunfarmer you make some good points about the "bigger" issues in play. But what concerns me so much is that one man (a "billionaire" as you say) has hi-jacked the agenda, to advance his own cause.

To me this makes it so much harder for those with "genuine cause", to succeed.

[techboy]

more bullshit scaremongering from WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) based country's.

even in full demonstration and political upheaval mode, bkk is no more dangerous than driving through East Ham, Moss Side or Bankstown at night....now, that's fuc_king scary. give me bkk upheaval any day.

Hey hero. Bet you have never been at the wrong place at the wrong time.

[ratcatcher]

I do not need to be reading this s h i t when i'm taking my family there next month, all bought and paid for.

Can all the Red and Yellow shirted nutters please vacate to Cambodia and have a good ole fight there.

Come on over mate, bring the family and have fun.

You will need to worry more about the taxi drivers at Swampy, the tuk-tuk clan on Phuket and the generally niggling little ripoffs that happen every day here in the major tourist destiantions.

The chance that you will be involved in any dangerous action by people wearing colored shirts is the same as whether it will rain. No chance.

[nevets]

Never mind lett,s get Thaksin back in power he helped the poor and was good to the Farang.

[ratcatcher]

Never mind lett,s get Thaksin back in power he helped the poor and was good to the Farang.

Joke of the day!

[mythBuster]

Secretly I hope that it goes very very wrong. Only when scores of foreigners get killed, the Thai army and the Thai elite will learn their lesson. IF not and only Thai demonstrators will killed nobody cares at all and the West keep on supporting Thailand simply because it needs it. A change in policy towards a sustained human rights improvement is long overdue.

[stevehhd]

Oh dear joker

You took my post all wrong. Having re read it I accept that Guy lakemens way of putting it was far better and ,in fact, my point. So I publicly apologise on the forum if my post has been read as leaning the tactic towards only Thai people. It is of course pretty much worldwide.

As for your assumptions,which I may be reading too much into, I am certainly no whinging expat and actively avoid the company of such types. I was fully aware of what to expect when I made the decision to stay here and have never regretted that decision. I embraced the fascinating culture here long ago in an attempt to understand it and get along better. I would think this the wise thing to do in any country.As for forcing me to stay? You would have to drag me out of here kicking and screaming.

You mention "tool" expats. I have met many. Normally narrow minded fat sweaty sex tourists polishing barstools with their <deleted> from 9.00 am until they fall over talking utter rubbish all the way.

Exploiting the economy? Well I have worked for a living here but at least 80% of my income came from foreigners and with the exception of a few overseas holidays over the years it is spent here.Did I exploit?

Exploiting the women? Please elaborate on how you think this applies to me.

I do have to concur that the behaviour of a lot of expats can be obnoxious,embarrassing and at times downright offensive so I understand your frustration with such types as I feel it myself and therefore avoid them.

As for complaints whilst there are day to day frustrations living here they are simply a little different to frustrations elsewhere and easily got around if you excercise a little patience and understanding.

I do however stick to my point that there are eyes on that money that want a peice. This however is a human trait far from unique to this country

Steve

[grantbkk]

I really don't think the back packers or sex tourists will be deterred by another dust up in Bangkok. They can head to Pattaya, etc. The families and the more well to do traveler usually have a bit more education and reasoning skills so they will avoid conflict and danger. Like all political problems, this will blow over. I don't remember a tourist being killed in political violence since the New Year's Eve bombings a few years ago. Sad state of affairs but what do you expect from a corrupt developing nation?

[Thai at Heart]

As another long term resident in Thailand, I agree with most of your statement T@H. Anybody who has been here a while understands (to some extent) what is going on right now, is a bit like a volcano about to erupt. But it's also a volcano, whose fires (the frustration of so many people)are being stoked, by one man's desire for revenge and getting his money back.

This appears to be presenting a picture of inevitability about a major blow out on or before 26th February. I would ask "why is it so"?

And, just as importantly, "who is it for" ?

Is it possible Thai people are getting very sick of all this (from all sides) ?

As a person with a long term involvment (16+ years) with the country and its people, I think, slowly this is becoming a more prevelant opinion than offering support to one side , or another.

Many Thai are starting to understand the effect it is having on their lives.

If the UDD had been able to organize their oft threatened "million man march", then I would say these travel warnings are very valid in terms of one's safety. But as is pointed out by Geriatric Kid in his post, governments such as the Candian (and Australian) are bound to issue these warnings for reasons he outlined - if a bit emotionally (about taxes) - to protect themselves from their own citizens (and insurance companies and lawyers) as much as warning people to "be careful".

There has been a lot of smoke and mirrors about what the reasons are for the absolute destruction of the Shinawatra wealth and family. This level of scrutiny and use of the law to smash one family is pretty much unheard of in most places. Money has something to do with it, but I think there is far more to it. Unfortunately for another discussion.

Back on subject, I hope Tom Jones comes.

Urging foreign tourists to stay away from Bangkok is non-sensical. Where is the main airport? Stay away from Bangkok but continue to use the airport, because no one would ever dare to protest there right?

Stupidly, the yellows actions from before probably mean an increased likelihood of trouble at the airport, so future travel warnings should probably include the airport specifically.

[BlackJack]

DONT come to Pattaya

its too dangerous

[siampolee]

Reenatinnak.

A walk around London is more dangerous you say, hmm let's cast our minds back to the recent Red Shirt Fun Days. Gas tankers parked by communal housing blocks, buses set on fire, a retired reporter beaten to death in Chang Mia by the red Sirts for his opposition to Thaksin.

The sight of a person being dragged fro a vehicle and beaten by the Red Shirts at Government House.

What Ho chap's, let's put our picnic table here and watch the fun and the frolics of a marauding mob as the tumbrils roll by,.

I was here in 1992, I've been here for 20 years and believe me when the effluent hits the fan you keep out of the way and you keep your family out of the way too.

Please resume taking what you should be taking medicinal wise, or stop taking that which you shouldn't be taking medicinal wise.