So Are You Happy With Only 30k Baht Per Month?

[BlackArtemis]

12,000 does not equal a fancy car. I was paying 8,000 for a 2nd hand Honda 2000 Civic 2 years ago.

20,000 is also an average house payment, especially if you want to pay it off in less than 30 years.

I would calculate that with 2 children and working at an international school with free tuiton for 1 or 2 children I would need to make about 120,000/month combined with my wife, 200,000 if not working at a school like that. This includes putting away at least $1,000 USD/month for retirement, paying off a house, a decent car, and being able to keep a family in a life style I am accustomed to, such as vacations etc and never worry about money month to month.

[Ijustwannateach]

^This is the most realistic summary I've seen for those who might wish to raise families here with access to minimally decent English-language education for their children. You can't do it on 30K per job, even with both husband and wife working. Sure, you can get by on peanuts for years by yourself if you wish, and pay the price later for little savings or insurance. But would you want to ask your family, especially your children, to join you on this path? I hope the family-oriented would-be teachers will consider what is being discussed here carefully.

[LazySlipper]

Anyone who says that 30k or even 40k a month is enough is full of shit.

A plane ticket back to Detroit is minimally 45k for a round trip. 2 weeks visit... at least 15k a week.

Consequently, a two week visit to Detroit to see the family once a year = 75k

How many of you can save 75k a year on a 30k salary?

If any of you can... you are mostly grabbing bones from soi dogs and boiling them down as a broth.

Anyone of you who boasts you can save 10k a month on a 30k salary must have been monks in a monestary prior to coming to Thailand.

You must be skimmers and salvagers. I would hate to invite you to a party. After you came to my house I would check the toilet tissue... the fridge... and teh toothpicks to make sure you did not try to save by stealing off my generosity.

I recently read a post on Aj about someone who can save money by taking a straw and use it to clean his/her teeth for over a fuc_king month.

Living in Thailand as an expat teacher is not a TV survival epic.

It is about exchanging foreign education for money. This implies that the teacher buys books, has internet, has a computer and/or pays for elecrticity to pay for creating a decent lesson.

Anyone surviving on 30k a month is not creating resources. This person is mooching of the school's resources and most likely complaining that said school is not sufficiently equipped with resources.

I have worked with teachers who would have a 30k job a month and make extra money tutoring. These people would backlog the photocopy service by having the xerox girls copy books for themselves for free and then use them to teach privately.

800 bht a month for TOT 3 Mb internet

8k a month for a decent place to stay

1k a mont for decent electricity

4k a month for decent food and a weekly night at the restaurant

200 bht a month for paper for private teaching

1k a month for ink for a printer

600bht a month for telephone cards

14.8 k a month... before even starting to live...

75k a month to go back home on a yearly basis= 6.75k a month saved... more or less

total: 22k

Left over 8k

I ain't even starting to talk about travelling expenses, alcohol and cigarettes.

Anyone surviving, and I do mean surviving, on this kind of salary is a fuc_king leech. You either steal catsup from KFC on your bi-monthly visit to such a place, or steal tissue and light bulbs when the opportunity presents itslef.

Anyone who accepts this kind of salary has either a pension coming in, an inheritance or no long term plan to stay here.

BTW most schools that offer 30k a month won't give you health care. They figure you earn enough to pay for it for yourself.

I had food poisoning and it cost me 15k for one night. 30k a month seems great until the shit hits the fan.

[monkfish]

To posters at risk of dragging this topic off topic, what Thai teachers get paid has nothing to do with the market for foreign teachers.

Sorry what do you mean?

Foreign teachers are better qualified than Thai teachers so deserve a higher salary? or just foreigners deserve a higher salary because they are from the west?

Edited February 25, 2010 by monkfish

[LazySlipper]

"Sorry what do you mean?

Foreign teachers are better qualified than Thai teachers so deserve a higher salary? or just foreigners deserve a higher salary because they are from the west?"

Dude, foreigners are just as qualified as Thai teahcers, if not more.

95% of the Thai teachers do not possess an education degree.

That is why the TCT is so busy qualifying teachers right now. They have to qualify Thai teachers and foreign teachers alike.

Mostly Thai teachers in order to save face.

[monkfish]

"Sorry what do you mean?

Foreign teachers are better qualified than Thai teachers so deserve a higher salary? or just foreigners deserve a higher salary because they are from the west?"

Dude, foreigners are just as qualified as Thai teahcers, if not more.

95% of the Thai teachers do not possess an education degree.

That is why the TCT is so busy qualifying teachers right now. They have to qualify Thai teachers and foreign teachers alike.

Mostly Thai teachers in order to save face.

Good so when they are qualified they will also earn 30k +

[BlackArtemis]

Thanks Ijustwannateach. I also realize that even if I do secure a job at an international school on my return and make 60k + free tuition for the first child. My wife would still have to pull in 40k. She has done so before with turoting, but it's a lot of time. When she returns with a MSED she still might have trouble due to being Thai.

I think everyone should have a backup plan if you are truly serious. Mine is a MS in Environmental Biology or Industrial Ecology. Won't get the summers off, but it should pay the bills.

[tonititan]

Most western countries have a shortage of qualified teachers and so these people do not have to come to Thailand to work.

This surprised me, because it is quite the opposite of my perceptions (which I'm obviously admitting are just my opinions, not hard data). I guess maybe it depends on which western country you are talking about. I will admit that I have no knowledge of the demand for teachers in Europe, Canada, Australia, etc. However, it seems that in the US right now, there is actually an excess of certified teachers. Schools are downsizing and laying off teachers. At the same time, more retirement-age teachers are staying in the workforce due to fears about financial security. The stories coming from my teacher friends back home are all indicating that it is VERY difficult to find a teaching job right now. Last summer I read a newspaper article regarding teaching jobs in the large metro area I used to live in. It said that for every open teaching position in the area, there were about 250 teachers looking for a job! I have several friends in different parts of the country (certified teachers with Education degrees) who have been waiting years for a teaching job. Some are working as restaurant waiters, some are unemployed, some are working odd jobs to get by. And they are telling me that it is a very bad idea to go back to school for a master's degree in education, because it actually makes them less marketable (because they would require a higher salary).

What does all of this have to do with Thailand?:

Right now, there are plenty of applicants with Bachelor's degrees in Psychology, Business etc.. But very few with Education degrees.

You are referring to applicants in Thailand, correct?

I have encountered more and more certified/licensed teachers who are considering looking for jobs overseas because they cannot find work at home due to the excess of teachers. There seems to be increasing competition for the "best" jobs. I have heard that some of these teachers are willing to take lower-paying jobs (not just at the high-paying international schools) because it is better than nothing, and they cannot afford to survive in the US. So, my prediction is that there will be an increase in teachers with Education degrees who are coming to places like Thailand and working as English teachers. How that will affect the salaries for the non-certified/Education degree English teachers, I have no idea. I'm definitely not claiming to be a financial analyst.

[Ijustwannateach]

To posters at risk of dragging this topic off topic, what Thai teachers get paid has nothing to do with the market for foreign teachers.

Sorry what do you mean?

Foreign teachers are better qualified than Thai teachers so deserve a higher salary? or just foreigners deserve a higher salary because they are from the west?

What I meant is what I said: foreign teachers are not in the same market as Thai teachers- furthermore, foreign teachers of the various categories which I previously posted are not in the same market with each other. All of the groups mentioned in my previous posting on this thread (perhaps you missed it- have a look?) have different qualifications and are in different demand and supply groups- some better than others- and will command different salaries. To say in a blanket way that foreign native-speakers, non-native speakers or Thai teachers are uniformly better or worse than each other is a silly oversimplification, which was the point of that previous post... so I am not saying either of the things you ask.

However, it is NOT a simplification to say that foreigners of *whatever* qualification level are in more limited supply than Thai teachers, and will automatically be 'worth' more in terms of market forces for *that reason alone* as long as there is demand- before qualifications even come into the picture and really complicate things. As BlackArtemis says below, foreign teachers who have any decent qualifications and experience whatsoever will ultimately be in a market that is not only determined by Thai demand but by international demand- which is why they will ultimately command international rates if Thailand wishes to have them here.

[BlackArtemis]

The teacher job market in the US is very varied.

Many people claim to not be able to find a job, but they really mean they can not find a job in their area.

Furthermore History, English, Language arts teachers will always have a hard time compared to science and math teachers.

Here in PA I see 30+ jobs added in just the last week, quite a lot for this time of the year.

But while there may be an emigration of teachers from western countries, I don't see Thailand's wages as a huge welcoming banner when you have S.Korea near by offering decent wages, a round trip ticket, and a much more modern society.

But time will tell eh?

[tonititan]

The teacher job market in the US is very varied.

Many people claim to not be able to find a job, but they really mean they can not find a job in their area.

Furthermore History, English, Language arts teachers will always have a hard time compared to science and math teachers.

Here in PA I see 30+ jobs added in just the last week, quite a lot for this time of the year.

But while there may be an emigration of teachers from western countries, I don't see Thailand's wages as a huge welcoming banner when you have S.Korea near by offering decent wages, a round trip ticket, and a much more modern society.

But time will tell eh?

Yeah, that's a good point. There are jobs available if you're willing to move to high-need areas and have a high-need job.

The friends I was talking about (who are mostly elementary school teachers) have been looking in several large cities (in different states) as well as rural areas within a couple hours radius of each city. They do understand that they can't expect to find a job in their own neighborhood. Some of them have told me that if they have to move 10 states away, they would rather move overseas and at least have some adventure.

And I completely agree that Thailand will probably not be a big draw for teachers financially. But, the lifestyle will likely attract some more teachers. Some of the recent arrivals I've met have said that hey just wanted to take a break from worrying about making big bucks. You're right, though - we'll just have to wait and see.

[Scott]

My experience with qualified teachers from other countries, particularly the US and Canada, is that they don't adjust well to the methodology used in Thailand. This is especially true of the more Thai-oriented, as opposed to international-oriented schools. My experience is limited, but have worked with maybe 15 or 20--the shortest time-frame was a married couple who lasted 3 days. A few that lasted up to the first examination period.

All went on to have good careers either in international schools or in other countries.

[mizzi39]

My experience with qualified teachers from other countries, particularly the US and Canada, is that they don't adjust well to the methodology used in Thailand. This is especially true of the more Thai-oriented, as opposed to international-oriented schools. My experience is limited, but have worked with maybe 15 or 20--the shortest time-frame was a married couple who lasted 3 days. A few that lasted up to the first examination period.

All went on to have good careers either in international schools or in other countries.

I don't know what "methodology" you are referring to Scott but I Guess it depends. We all adopt to British Model, since i believe that this is what Thailand uses. If i misinterpreted, then i apologize. I am an American and have adjusted just fine.

The director of our EP (who is Thai) earned her Masters in the United States, and speaks almost fluent English. Personally she will not hire anyone if she feels that their accent is to strong, this includes many Brits and Aussies who she feels accent is to "heavy". The Thais who are able to learn and speak English do so, minus an accent. Sorry for being off topic.

Edited February 26, 2010 by mizzi39

[Jim's_a_Thai_Fox]

Hi LazySlipper,

I understand your thoughts that youngsters don't hang around long and that Thailand is just as consumption orientated as the west, but, I know a heap of people over here for the same reasons. They are here for longer than 2 years and have no plans to return.

I first arrived in Thailand 6 years ago and after one year's teaching was raised to 30k/month. Five years later (after earning 250,000 THB tax free per month in Dubai in the interim) I am now earning 25k/month... so maybe your theory about the downward spiral is true. that said, I enjoy my life working 8-4 and playing tennis most evenings, never stressing about work and paying 3500THB rent...

I have a kid on the way, the wife gave up her 15k job at Kasesart Uni in Nakhon Pathom to become a mum and live with me in the north. I am fully aware that with a kid, I will not be happy on 25k per month... however, getting a raise out of Thia employers is another huge stumbling block. So far, no one has mentioned this - have you gotten much of a raise over the years teaching here? With inflation running at around 8-10%, I hate to think how worse off I am in 'real terms', i.e. inflation adjusted now compared to 5 years ago. Ouch.

[Scott]

I am not going to elaborate much because it is going off-topic. But I am referring to a whole variety of things--

--KG students sitting for exams.

--Students not be allowed to fail.

--Teachers being given a lot of responsibility out of the classroom (in some cases really a lot)

--Expectations that children be taught material they aren't developmentally capable of learning.

--Rote memorizing

--Being told by people what to do, when to do, and how to do it. And then being criticized for doing it.

And all this for around 30,000 ++ per month? For people who know what to do and how to do and have been trained to do.

As I said, I am talking about the more Thai-oriented schools, not EP programs where you have a coordinator who speaks good English.

[mizzi39]

I am not going to elaborate much because it is going off-topic. But I am referring to a whole variety of things--

--KG students sitting for exams.

--Students not be allowed to fail.

--Teachers being given a lot of responsibility out of the classroom (in some cases really a lot)

--Expectations that children be taught material they aren't developmentally capable of learning.

--Rote memorizing

--Being told by people what to do, when to do, and how to do it. And then being criticized for doing it.

And all this for around 30,000 ++ per month? For people who know what to do and how to do and have been trained to do.

As I said, I am talking about the more Thai-oriented schools, not EP programs where you have a coordinator who speaks good English.

Thank you for clarifying.

[losworld]

T

Anyone who says that 30k or even 40k a month is enough is full of shit.

A plane ticket back to Detroit is minimally 45k for a round trip. 2 weeks visit... at least 15k a week.

Consequently, a two week visit to Detroit to see the family once a year = 75k

How many of you can save 75k a year on a 30k salary?

If any of you can... you are mostly grabbing bones from soi dogs and boiling them down as a broth.

Anyone of you who boasts you can save 10k a month on a 30k salary must have been monks in a monestary prior to coming to Thailand.

You must be skimmers and salvagers. I would hate to invite you to a party. After you came to my house I would check the toilet tissue... the fridge... and teh toothpicks to make sure you did not try to save by stealing off my generosity.

I recently read a post on Aj about someone who can save money by taking a straw and use it to clean his/her teeth for over a fuc_king month.

Living in Thailand as an expat teacher is not a TV survival epic.

It is about exchanging foreign education for money. This implies that the teacher buys books, has internet, has a computer and/or pays for elecrticity to pay for creating a decent lesson.

Anyone surviving on 30k a month is not creating resources. This person is mooching of the school's resources and most likely complaining that said school is not sufficiently equipped with resources.

I have worked with teachers who would have a 30k job a month and make extra money tutoring. These people would backlog the photocopy service by having the xerox girls copy books for themselves for free and then use them to teach privately.

800 bht a month for TOT 3 Mb internet

8k a month for a decent place to stay

1k a mont for decent electricity

4k a month for decent food and a weekly night at the restaurant

200 bht a month for paper for private teaching

1k a month for ink for a printer

600bht a month for telephone cards

14.8 k a month... before even starting to live...

75k a month to go back home on a yearly basis= 6.75k a month saved... more or less

total: 22k

Left over 8k

I ain't even starting to talk about travelling expenses, alcohol and cigarettes.

Anyone surviving, and I do mean surviving, on this kind of salary is a fuc_king leech. You either steal catsup from KFC on your bi-monthly visit to such a place, or steal tissue and light bulbs when the opportunity presents itslef.

Anyone who accepts this kind of salary has either a pension coming in, an inheritance or no long term plan to stay here.

BTW most schools that offer 30k a month won't give you health care. They figure you earn enough to pay for it for yourself.

I had food poisoning and it cost me 15k for one night. 30k a month seems great until the shit hits the fan.

This argument is full of holes... who would want to go to Detroit... case closed.

[PeaceBlondie]

Winnipeg, Aberdeen, Miami....

[thunder30101]

Lazyslipper why dont you just tell us how you feel about all of us 30k a month pieces of crap ? By looking at your bs expense list you dont even live in thailand let alone teach here.

800 baht monthly for tot is only 490 for 3 meg service

8k monthly rental ? yeah bangkok but not in the rest of the country, I pay 8k for a 4 bedroom beautiful house

1k for electricty ? yeah for lazy people who have never heard of a fan

4k for food ? well depends on what you eat I have this thing called a kitchen

200 baht for paper ??? ever hear of a whiteboard

1k for ink ??? they have these bulk ink tanks you fill for 400 baht that last forever ( must not have had them many years ago when you might have been here)

Telephone cards ??? I guess if you are chasing women all the time otherwise they have these great inventions called skype and instant messenger

You seem to use the word f_ucking this and that alot referring to people, so I will use it myself, you are a fuc_king phony who I think has never set foot in thailand !!!

I dont claim that 30k is a great salary but its the market rate in thailand, so if you cant do it move on no one here will miss you and quit insulting people who can make it on that much.

[OxfordWill]

People live in different worlds, there's little point arguing one vs the other. There's always someone doing it bigger or more than you too, which we should all remember. So you earn 30k? Great, its twice what most Thais earn. But I know someone earning 60k. I know someone earning 100k. He does stuff the 30k guy doesnt. But then there's a guy earning 300k. He spends what the first guys earns in a month, on one single afternoon entertaining his clients at an executive lounge. And so on, and on.. We could all be happy on 30k, because happiness doesnt come from wealth alone and we are evolved to adapt and survive. So its silly saying "I couldnt do 30k". You could. It's equally silly to imply "I wouldn't be more happy to earn 300k" because more money is something with the potential to contribute to happiness, just not the only thing.

Edited February 26, 2010 by OxfordWill

[Scott]

Just a word of caution. Let's keep the language clean and let's not insult or flame others.

There are too many variables and differences in lifestyle and idiosyncratic behavior to make accurate comparisons.

Where you start is one thing; where you end up is quite another. What are annual raises like? What chances for advancement are there? Etc..

I now make a very good salary--when I started it was at 18,000 baht. It went to 20,000 the next month, then it went to 25,000 baht the 3rd month. 2 months later it was at 30,000 baht. End of the first year it was 35,000 baht. The annual increase has varied from 1,500 - 2,000 per month. This was quite a few years ago.

So, let's stay on topic. Let's not flame, and let's not steal ketchup from KFC!

[Firelily]

I am extremely offended if someone suggests that anyone living on 30k cheats, steals and begs his/her way through everyday life.

I have never stolen from my school. If anything, I buy resources and stuff out of my pocket and I don't care. I eat decent food, I don't like Thai street food. I go on holidays. I give lots to charity. I live in a 2-storey house, I have a 1166 baht internet bill.

But whatever I do and however I get by on my salary, nobody has the right to call me and all my colleagues criminals without knowing us.

[twschw]

Amen, Firelily. Thank you for posting what I wanted to say, but in a much more polite way.

[Scott]

Since this topic is deteriorating and has done gone well out of the area of teaching and into the area of finance, I am closing it.

There is an entire forum devoted to finances. This was is for teachers and teaching.

[Scott]

We will continue this discussion, but hopefully without the flames. Most posters seem to have an interest in the topic of salary and lifestyle, but let's keep it professional. Continued here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Salary-Life-...rs-t342747.html

Thanks.