Any Thoughts On Tiger Woods' Discussion Of His Buddhist Roots During His "apology"?

[ScubaBuddha]

According to news reports. Tiger was a womanizer before he married, and his wife knew all about it, but he promised to stop. And yet he was at it again soon after they tied the knot. So he needs to have some serious conventional therapy or get deeply into Buddhism to overcome his demons. For sure he's genuinely contrite now, but the temptations will be back in due course and sleeping next to a Buddha amulet won't do much to help. And if he falls off the wagon and starts bonking cocktail waitresses again, I imagine Christian commentators will blame Buddhism for being inadequate.

But he wasn't a womanizer before he was a celebrity.

[sabaijai]

"The sad fact in Tiger's public apology – aside from the strange fact that he felt the need to say anything at all to the public about his private affairs – is his dragging the Buddha into this mess. He tells us he was raised as a Buddhist, which, like Christianity, preaches restraint. In other words, the flesh is weak. Yet one can't help but wonder if Tiger's Buddhism isn't just a cop out, a coat of spiritual paint to spruce up his celebrity image in a way that will appeal to all those new age Californian media executives who will make sure he stays on TV. After all, Buddhism isn't about moral purity. It’s about reducing suffering by reducing desire."

Full story.

The author of the article didn't appear to have listened to Woods' actual words at all. He addressed the latter issue quite specifically.

But he wasn't a womanizer before he was a celebrity.

Yes, another issue he addressed head-on in his apology.

[sabaijai]

Hume update:

Brit Hume has publicly called for Tiger Woods to convert to Christianity to find forgiveness and redemption following his sex scandal. And even after Tiger's apology — in which he reaffirmed his Buddhist faith — Hume still thinks Christianity is the best path for him.

"I think, because I'm a Christian and I believe that Christianity is true, that Tiger Woods and his wife Elin would be a lot farther down the road toward forgiveness and redemption if they were both Christians," Hume told Bill O'Reilly Monday. "But they're not. And they're going to do the best they can with what they have. And I wish Tiger Woods well."

Hume also said that, in his public apology Friday, Woods was a "shaken, chastened, and contrite man."

"Gone was the swagger," he said. "Gone was all of the radiant self-confidence that we used to see in him. This was a pretty shaken guy up there."

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/24/b...i_n_474600.html

[jazzbo]

But he wasn't a womanizer before he was a celebrity. ... at least in the golfing world of Golf Digest and Mr. Palmer's The Golf Channel, Tiger was a celebrity at age 6.

[Traxster]

I didn't watch Tiger's 'speech'.

IMHO.....the only people he needs to apologise to is his wife and perhaps his mother.

To all those self satisfied commentators.... remember.........

"Let He Who Is Without Sin,cast The First Stone"

[phetaroi]

I'd like to remind the last couple of posters that this thread is specifically about the aspects of the Tiger Woods issue and Buddhism.

General rants about Tiger Woods (either pro or con) belong elsewhere.

O.P.

[phetaroi]

To Joe:

Here's last weeks summary of a quote by the Dali Lama: "Tibet's exiled spiritual leader told The Associated Press...that he had not heard of Woods, but when the circumstances were explained to him he said that when it comes to adultery, "all religions have the same idea...Whether you call it Buddhism or another religion, self-discipline, that's important...Self-discipline with awareness of consequences."

You may wish to proclaim Buddhism to not be a religion, but that is a topic up for debate, and is debated around the world on a continuing basis. I believe that Buddhism also calls for an open mind.

Edited February 28, 2010 by phetaroi

[Shotime]

I don't understand how his wife didn't know something was up. He must have stayed out at nights, and not come home till late if at all' What did she think he was doing? He seemed very busy.

I think the Buddhism remark was in response to the ridiculous remark Brit Hume made about Christianity offering a better alternative to redemption. I couldn't believe he said it. I don't mean to bring a religious difference into this, but, unfortunately, redemption involves changes, and working to not make the same mistakes over and over. Not just get absolved, and carry on with no attempt to change. I'll bet his Mom was very pissed when she heard Hume's remarks.

[Jingthing]

Remember, Bill Maher is a COMEDIAN. So give him some slack. However his comments on this week's US Real Time tv show are on topic to this thread, so here goes --

But before Tiger moves on there's one more apology he really should make, and that's to Buddha, for dragging him into this mess and proving once again, that whenever something unspeakably tawdry, loathsome and cheap happens, just wait a few days. Religion will make it worse.

Now usually, when famous cheaters are looking for public redemption, they go to Jesus, but Tiger went old school, and claimed that sleeping with 2/3 of the waitresses in America had made him a failure as a Buddhist. He said Buddhism teaches you the way to inner peace is letting go of desire - and if that doesn't sound like marriage, I don't know what does.

Personally, if I was a golfer, I'd go with Jesus - because he's a Trinity, so when you walk with him, you've got a foursome. Christianity is for rubes. Buddhism is for actors.

And it really is outdated in some ways - the "Life sucks, and then you die" philosophy was useful when Buddha came up with it around 500 B.C., because back then life pretty much sucked, and then you died - but now we have medicine, and plenty of food, and iPhones, and James Cameron movies - our life isn't all about suffering anymore. And when we do suffer, instead of accepting it we try to alleviate it.

Tiger said, "Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves" makes us unhappy, which confirms something I've long suspected about Eastern religions: they're a crock, too.

Craving for things outside ourselves is what makes life life - I don't want to learn to not want, that's what people in prison have to do. Buddhism teaches suffering is inevitable. The only thing that's inevitable is that if you have fake boobs and hair extensions, Tiger Woods will try to fuc_k you.

And reincarnation? Really? If that were real, wouldn't there be some proof by now? A raccoon spelling out in acorns, "My name is Herb Zoller and I'm an accountant." ...something?

People are always debating, is Buddhism a religion or a philosophy: it's a religion. You're a religion if you do something as weird as when the Buddhist monks scrutinize two-year-olds to find the reincarnation of the dude who just died, and then choose one of the toddlers as the sacred Lama: "His poop is royal!" Sorry, but thinking you can look at a babbling, barely-housebroken, uneducated being and say, "That's our leader" doesn't make you enlightened. It makes you a Sarah Palin supporter.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bill-maher/n...x_b_478545.html

[sabaijai]

Buddhism Means Always Having To Say You're Sorry: Tiger Woods Edition

Cathleen Falsaniaka

Huffington Post

February 25, 2010 03:19 PM

Apart from the Dalai Lama, who reportedly had never heard of him until earlier this week, Tiger Woods is the most famous Buddhist on the planet.

But until Woods invoked his Buddhist identity during a televised mea culpa for cheating on his wife and a spectacular fall from grace, like most of his fans, I had no idea the golfer was a follower of the Eight Fold Path.

"I was raised a Buddhist and I actively practiced my faith from childhood until I drifted away from it in recent years," Woods said. "Buddhism teaches that a craving for things outside ourselves causes an unhappy and pointless search for security. It teaches me to stop following every impulse and learn restraint. Obviously I lost track of what I was taught."

To me, Woods' lengthy apology felt true and complete. But I am not a Buddhist.

I wanted to know what his mea culpa sounded like to Buddhist ears, so I checked with a few Buddhist friends to gauge their reaction.

"His apology was sincere, humble and brave," according to Robert Joshin Althouse, head of the Zen Life & Meditation Center in Oak Park, Ill. "It went a long way to redeeming him in the eyes of his fans. Now he needs to follow his words with actions, and Buddhism has plenty of teachings for helping him do that.

"One of the central teachings of Buddhism is compassion. The moral foundation of this religion is based on the elimination of suffering. All Mahayana Buddhists take a vow to live their lives for the sake of liberating others from suffering. This kind of bravery and compassion never gives up on anyone or anything. That would seem to be the very nature of redemption itself."

My friend Carolyn Reyes, a lawyer and Buddhist convert from Christianity who practices at the Zen Center in San Francisco, thought Woods sounded "robotic" and that his comments about his Buddhist "faith" were an opportunistic attempt to appeal to fans with religious convictions.

That said, Reyes went on to say that Buddhism has taught her that, "We are all addicts. Drugs, sex, etc., are some sexy addictions that I don't struggle with, but mine are just as destructive. My addiction to wanting to be liked is high on my list of countless habitual patterns. How often do I really greet the moment with fresh eyes, a wide-open heart, free of preconceived ideas, expectations and prejudices?"

Robert Inchausti, a professor at California Polytechnic State University who has written widely about Thomas Merton and Buddhism, said Woods' apology reminded him of Jack Kerouac's novel Big Sur, which recounts the beat poet's "lost" weeks at a friends cabin in Big Sur struggling to overcome a debauched lifestyle and the effects of crushing celebrity. Like Woods, Kerouac -- at least for a period of his life -- practiced Buddhism.

"Compared to Kerouac's cry from the heart, Tiger Woods' 'apology' is pale and seems a bit cagey," Inchausti said. "If he is wrestling himself free from a false sense of entitlement, as he put it, it's clear he hasn't even begun to wrestle himself free from the protocols of celebrity. This is probably as much our fault as it is his."

For Stephen Asma, a professor at Columbia College in Chicago and author of the new book Why I Am a Buddhist: No-Nonsense Buddhism with Red Meat and Whiskey, thought Woods' explanation of how Buddhism will help him get his life back on track was helpful and accurate.

"Craving is what causes suffering and he was really stepping in it," Asma said. "That was what he was sorry about and that is what's on everyone's map of his unethical activities...Those things that enslave you -- your own craving -- is basically how we define a sin in Buddhism."

Woods' mother, Kultida, who taught her son about Buddhism, is from Thailand -- a "cultural Buddhist," Asma explained. "Cultural Buddhists' attitudes toward their religion are very different from Western Buddhists. They wear the cloak loosely. They're not strung up by it.

"They take a charitable approach to themselves and the moral life. In other words, they sin, they recognize it, they know they'll have to pay for it, but then they get back on the horse and try again."

Many people, Buddhist or not, have been harshly critical of Woods' apology, calling it too little too late, a publicity stunt, disingenuous and hollow.

Asma disagrees.

"I think that tells us more about ourselves as an audience than it does him and his moral infractions," he said. "We have moral outrage toward celebrities and people can't get enough of that. No matter what his apology would have been, some people would not have been satisfied."

Cathleen Falsani is an award-winning religion columnist and author of The Dude Abides: The Gospel According to the Coen Brothers.

Source: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/cathleen-fal...v_b_476646.html

[phetaroi]

Remember, Bill Maher is a COMEDIAN. So give him some slack. However his comments on this week's US Real Time tv show are on topic to this thread, so here goes --

I must admit that I find Bill Maher's rant insulting. But, since his show used to be one of my favorites when I could still watch it in the States, I accept that I can't be hypocritical and condemn him just because now he's hitting a target of value to me. Bill's long been known as anti-religion. And that's fine. He holds a mirror up for the world to look at itself, and what we sometimes see in that mirror is not very attractive...but the mirror is reality, and we have to remember not to blame the messenger.

As I read Bill's rant something suddenly occurred to me about an ongoing discussion we have here: IS Buddhism a religion or a philosophy. I'm not sure which Buddhism is supposed to be, but it seems pretty clear to me that it IS a religion.

[camerata]

"One of the central teachings of Buddhism is compassion. The moral foundation of this religion is based on the elimination of suffering. All Mahayana Buddhists take a vow to live their lives for the sake of liberating others from suffering. This kind of bravery and compassion never gives up on anyone or anything. That would seem to be the very nature of redemption itself."

Great. You want to know what a half Thai Theravadin Buddhist is thinking? Ask an American Zen Buddhist!

Woods' mother, Kultida, who taught her son about Buddhism, is from Thailand -- a "cultural Buddhist," Asma explained. "Cultural Buddhists' attitudes toward their religion are very different from Western Buddhists. They wear the cloak loosely. They're not strung up by it.

"They take a charitable approach to themselves and the moral life. In other words, they sin, they recognize it, they know they'll have to pay for it, but then they get back on the horse and try again."

That's more like it.

Many people, Buddhist or not, have been harshly critical of Woods' apology, calling it too little too late, a publicity stunt, disingenuous and hollow.

Asma disagrees.

"I think that tells us more about ourselves as an audience than it does him and his moral infractions," he said. "We have moral outrage toward celebrities and people can't get enough of that. No matter what his apology would have been, some people would not have been satisfied."

Good point. As Ajahn Brahm said, "We Westerners are neurotic fault-finders."

[Xangsamhua]

I laughed at Bill Maher's comments. I didn't find them offensive because (i) I don't think he was presenting them as his own deeply held beliefs and (ii) I think he was also mocking himself, or at least commonly held beliefs that e.g i-pods and James Cameron movies make life worthwhile.

Of course he was making fun of some central Buddhist beliefs, and unfairly, but it's a comic piece, not a serious contribution to the discussion. Buddhism is an Asian religion and in Asia (as in most of the non-Western world?) it's really impolite to make fun of religious leaders or their teachings, but in the West it's acceptable to so, at least in more liberal circles (though Muslim sensitivities limit the targets).

I worked for the Catholic Church (in Catholic Education) for 23 years and can remember that in my circles there was no problem with joking about anything to do with the Church, or even Jesus, his mother or "God" (the anthropomorphic one, that is). Of course, the Church, popes, etc copped most of the satire and ridicule.

I think some people joked because they didn't really believe the stories or teachings anyway, but for most it was out of an awareness that truth, mystery, etc are not captured by and confined to doctrines, formulae, rituals and disciplines. Most of the ultimate things we are trying to connect with and represent in our lives are ineffable, and most attempts to lock them down in speech end up sounding a bit silly.

[camerata]

As I read Bill's rant something suddenly occurred to me about an ongoing discussion we have here: IS Buddhism a religion or a philosophy. I'm not sure which Buddhism is supposed to be, but it seems pretty clear to me that it IS a religion.

Actually we covered this in several topics before you arrived. The main two were:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Buddhists-Atheist-t76486.html

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Buddhist-Phi...lig-t66259.html

Feel free to add to either one.

[camerata]

The latest on Tiger:

Although dressed in typically conservative fashion, Woods also wore a thin Buddhist bracelet, which he showed to Golf Channel viewers and said he would be wearing when he returned to golf at the U.S. Masters on April 8.

"It's Buddhist, it's for protection and strength and I certainly need that," he said, adding that he began wearing the bracelet before he went into rehabilitation and that he intends to wear it forever.

He mentions in the article that he used to meditate. It would be interesting to know what kind of meditation and whether he understands what he's trying to achieve with it. If he's going to cure himself of being a serial adulterer he really needs to see the Big Picture of Buddhism and buy into it. A bit of stress-relief meditation wouldn't help much.

[sabaijai]

original article (I think)

Woods promises to wear Buddhist bracelet forever

(Reuters) - Rehabilitation and religion were the two themes Tiger Woods was most open about discussing in his first television interviews Sunday since revelations about his marriage infidelities emerged last November.

Woods has long been connected to Buddhism through his Thai mother and he said his detachment from the religion had been behind his fall from grace.

"Going against your core values, losing sight of it," he said when asked how he lost control of his life. "I quit meditating, I quit being a Buddhist, and my life changed upside down.

"I felt entitled, which I had never felt before. Consequently, I hurt so many people by my own reckless attitude and behavior.

"I quit doing all the things that my mum and dad had taught me. And as I said earlier in my statement, I felt entitled, and that is not how I was raised."

Although dressed in typically conservative fashion, Woods also wore a thin Buddhist bracelet, which he showed to Golf Channel viewers and said he would be wearing when he returned to golf at the U.S. Masters on April 8.

"It's Buddhist, it's for protection and strength and I certainly need that," he said, adding that he began wearing the bracelet before he went into rehabilitation and that he intends to wear it forever.

Woods raised his religion in his set-piece televised apology last month, though prior to the scandal he rarely mentioned it.

Given a number of celebrities in the U.S. have 'discovered' religion at times of crises, Woods may find some skepticism about his readiness to be publicly associated with Buddhism now.

But in an interview with Reuters in March, 2008, where he discussed his family life, the golfer was asked directly if he was a practicing Buddhist.

"I practice meditation -- that is something that I do, that my mum taught me over the years. We also have a thing we do every year, where we go to temple together," he said.

"In the Buddhist religion you have to work for it yourself, internally, in order to achieve anything in life and set up the next life.

"It is all about what you do and you get out of it what you put into it. I am always continuing to work."

-- Reuters 2006-03-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[phetaroi]

The latest on Tiger:

Although dressed in typically conservative fashion, Woods also wore a thin Buddhist bracelet, which he showed to Golf Channel viewers and said he would be wearing when he returned to golf at the U.S. Masters on April 8.

"It's Buddhist, it's for protection and strength and I certainly need that," he said, adding that he began wearing the bracelet before he went into rehabilitation and that he intends to wear it forever.

He mentions in the article that he used to meditate. It would be interesting to know what kind of meditation and whether he understands what he's trying to achieve with it. If he's going to cure himself of being a serial adulterer he really needs to see the Big Picture of Buddhism and buy into it. A bit of stress-relief meditation wouldn't help much.

As harsh as I have been about Tiger...and let me reiterate that I have lost all respect for the man...keep in mind that this interview on which the article is based lasted a total fo 5 minutes.

[Svenn]

^omg, I think I speak for all of us Buddhists when I say tiger woods should shut the hel_l up about his personal connection with 'buddhism'... it's bad publicity to say the least! I don't think any of use want to see popular media's probably first snapshot of a 'practicing' buddhist to be a playboy millionaire golfer trying to overcome his sex addiction.

[Traxster]

I don't understand why he had to apologise in the first place.

So he played round ...

Big deal...

All he has to do is make it up to his wife.......

new car,holiday,some lovely diamonds...

What''s the big fuss about ?

[sabaijai]

^omg, I think I speak for all of us Buddhists when I say tiger woods should shut the hel_l up about his personal connection with 'buddhism'... it's bad publicity to say the least! I don't think any of use want to see popular media's probably first snapshot of a 'practicing' buddhist to be a playboy millionaire golfer trying to overcome his sex addiction.

You do not speak for those Buddhists who believe in metta and karuna. IMO it's positive promotion in some ways, and may lead others to the path.

[clausewitz]

^omg, I think I speak for all of us Buddhists when I say tiger woods should shut the hel_l up about his personal connection with 'buddhism'... it's bad publicity to say the least! I don't think any of use want to see popular media's probably first snapshot of a 'practicing' buddhist to be a playboy millionaire golfer trying to overcome his sex addiction.

You don't speak for me. What has Tiger woods done that is especially bad, he sleeps around but as I understand it his geeks are not married women.

In a Buddhist country like Thiland he would be almost chaste.

Of course in puritanical USA even President Clinton was lambasted for having a mild affair.

[phetaroi]

You don't speak for me. What has Tiger woods done that is especially bad, he sleeps around but as I understand it his geeks are not married women.

In a Buddhist country like Thiland he would be almost chaste.

First, don't paint all Thais as philanderers. It's very insulting to many moral Thai people.

The problem with Tiger Woods, in my view, is not that he fooled around...Americans tend to accept that sports figures fool around.

It's not that he had marriage problems...roughly half of Americans have been divorced themselves.

It's not that his manners on the golf course go against tradition...that was fairly unspoken about until recently.

The problem is fraud. He marketed himself more than any golfer in history...marketed himself as being different than other sports figures...marketed himself as being above the fray...marketed himself as being a moral role model....I could go on...you get the point.

Now, he is marketing himself as being a repentant Buddhist -- Buddhism being something he never talked about until it was placed in the marketing script -- and many of us are rightly skeptical.

Americans can accept a lot of flaws...fraud is one that doesn't go down to well...particularly when you mix religion into it.

[clausewitz]

You don't speak for me. What has Tiger woods done that is especially bad, he sleeps around but as I understand it his geeks are not married women.

In a Buddhist country like Thiland he would be almost chaste.

First, don't paint all Thais as philanderers. It's very insulting to many moral Thai people.

The problem with Tiger Woods, in my view, is not that he fooled around...Americans tend to accept that sports figures fool around.

It's not that he had marriage problems...roughly half of Americans have been divorced themselves.

It's not that his manners on the golf course go against tradition...that was fairly unspoken about until recently.

The problem is fraud. He marketed himself more than any golfer in history...marketed himself as being different than other sports figures...marketed himself as being above the fray...marketed himself as being a moral role model....I could go on...you get the point.

Now, he is marketing himself as being a repentant Buddhist -- Buddhism being something he never talked about until it was placed in the marketing script -- and many of us are rightly skeptical.

Americans can accept a lot of flaws...fraud is one that doesn't go down to well...particularly when you mix religion into it.

Maybe if you link to some of the marketing he used where he suggested he was a paragon of virtue and that he would never indulge in affairs? I never saw any of that but since I live in Thailand it is not surprising. Was he like one of those TV preachers going on about the evils of the flesh, while having his bits on the side

[camerata]

From the articles I've read, Tiger was a womanizer before he married, his wife knew about it, and he promised he would turn over a new leaf when they got married. The fact that he was back at it not long after he married shows the depth of the problem he's facing. This is not a guy who was satisfied with marriage but later became bored. He seems to be the proverbial leopard who can't change his spots, and it's been complicated by an inflated ego.

Anyway, in Buddhist terms he broke the precept on adultery over and over, must have broken the precept on lying (to his wife) multiple times, and he hurt his wife and kids when the truth came out.

[clausewitz]

.

Anyway, in Buddhist terms he broke the precept on adultery over and over, must have broken the precept on lying (to his wife) multiple times, and he hurt his wife and kids when the truth came out.

the only Buddhist suttas I know say the precept is broken only when going with a married woman or underage girl, or stealing a prostitute from another man (while the clock is still running).

As for thailand look at King Mongut, hailed as great monk and also worshiped for his time after monkhood (he left is his late 40s) when he sired 55 chidren from 12 wives and concubines.

[camerata]

the only Buddhist suttas I know say the precept is broken only when going with a married woman or underage girl, or stealing a prostitute from another man (while the clock is still running).

I like Mae Chee Brigitte's way of expressing the spirit of the precept: Refrain from sexual conduct that hurts anyone. It's pretty obvious Tiger hurt his wife with his deceit.

[Bagwan]

I am reminded of the statues of other demigods that were dragged off their pedestals. He has let down his family and his sponsors who have showered him with much more money than he actually won by his expertise. I wish that I had a tenth of his golfing talent but want no other part of him.

As for going back to his Buddhist roots - yeah, OK. Seems to me he has done too much rooting already.

[Svenn]

^omg, I think I speak for all of us Buddhists when I say tiger woods should shut the hel_l up about his personal connection with 'buddhism'... it's bad publicity to say the least! I don't think any of use want to see popular media's probably first snapshot of a 'practicing' buddhist to be a playboy millionaire golfer trying to overcome his sex addiction.

You do not speak for those Buddhists who believe in metta and karuna. IMO it's positive promotion in some ways, and may lead others to the path.

Metta and karuna do not imply a Buddhist cannot be stern or condemning... I would think any belief otherwise a bit overly-romantic if not naive. The following text message released by Woods' mistress this week demonstrates some of the 'positive promotion' Woods is giving Buddhism: "I want to treat you rough, throw you around, spank and slap you and make you sore. I want to hold you down and choke you while I <deleted> that ass that I own. Then I'm going to tell you to shut the <deleted> up while I slap your face and pull your hair for making noise."

Edited March 27, 2010 by Svenn

[sabaijai]

Woods has apologised and vowed to adhere to his Buddhist roots. He will suffer the vipaka of his karma and that will have a more profound and efficient effect than your condemnation.

[camerata]

"I want to treat you rough, throw you around, spank and slap you and make you sore. I want to hold you down and choke you while I <deleted> that ass that I own. Then I'm going to tell you to shut the <deleted> up while I slap your face and pull your hair for making noise."

If this and the recent quote about sex with his wife not being up to much are true, I reckon Tiger has a variation of the Madonna Complex. For whatever ever reason he's into raunchy sex, but he can't engage in it with his wife because he respects her and needs her respect. Hence the hookers and cocktail waitresses, whose respect he doesn't need.

This is very different from some Christian pastor bonking his secretary and then seeking forgiveness after he gets caught and realizes the devil made him do it. Redemption might work for a one-off affair. However, Tiger is going to be confronted with the reality that if he wants his family and the warmth of a genuine relationship, he's going to have to make do with no more raunchy sex or maybe even no sex at all in the future. That's the kind of problem that the proper practice of Buddhism would be much better for.