Crackdown On Bangkok Street Beggars

[NaiGreg]

My wife and I have a simple solution to this problem. If the beggar does not seem fit for [able-bodied Thai] employment (i.e. disabled) then we give compassionately. Who cares if the employer is a gangster, when you are concerned about the welfare of a needy individual?

Otherwise, we walk on by.

[Popeyethesailorman]

i wish they would do something about those guys that crawl along the pavement like lizards. filthy dirty with mangled limbs such an appalling sight when you see these blokes.

of course they are like this to invoke pity and cash but it does not look good to tourists

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think the Thai government should dress these types of beggars in lizard outfits and thus the tourist would find this more to their liking. Maybe even stick four or five of them into a big snake costume. Kind of like a Disneyland sort of atmosphere.

[thymode91]

That was very nice project by the government but again and again, they should track down the root cause of the problem. "POVERTY" is the root cause of the beggars anywhere. I think the best project they should do is: How to give proper education with those needy in every part of Thailand. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not so true these days.

A lot of the beggars are imported from Cambodia, Burma etc.

Outside the scope of the Thai government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then, Thai government should simply imppose such rule to track down those illegal immegrants. don't tell me "illegal immegrants" its not under government scope.

Edited May 14, 2005 by thymode91

[billd766]

On another point that has been raised (albeit off topic) I know quite a few farangs who have Thai wives and live in villages quite well on rather small Western pensions. None of them "lord it" over their Thai neighbours. I am not saying that it may not happen anywhere, but it certainly is not universal!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry about that Martin but I have been to the hospital to get my tongue removed from my cheek.

[freedom-belg]

Crackdown on beggars soon

BANGKOK: -- The Social Development and Human Security Ministry says gangs of beggars are just asking for it.

The ministry plans a major crackdown focusing on 13 problem areas in Bangkok and will also propose a new law against begging.

Permanent secretary Wallop Ploythubtim said representatives of the ministry, the police, city hall and the Interior and Labour ministries agreed at a meeting yesterday a clampdown on begging gangs would start at the end of May in Bangkok and then extend into the provinces at a later date.

It will focus on gang leaders, those who recruit the disabled, elderly and children, and those who use animals to beg.

Mr Wallop said Thai beggars would be reunited with relatives, given jobs in their hometowns and monitored by follow-up officials, while aliens would be deported and barred from returning to Thailand.

People will be asked not to give money to beggars or buy goods from children at intersections in a bid to eradicate such gangs since all the money went to the gang leaders and not to the beggars.

''These people know Thais are kind, so they use the elderly, the handicapped and children to beg for money and sell goods. So I want to ask people to not buy things or give beggars money since you will only be supporting the gangs. If you refuse them money, these begging gangs will go out of business,'' Mr Wallop said.

Surveys by a special ministerial team over the past month found 13 sites in Bangkok each had at least 180 beggars, but police also said weekend and flea markets were additional trouble areas.

The target areas are Victory Monument, outside Central World Plaza, Talat Noi in Yaowarat, Udomsuk market, near Nana and Prom Phong skytrain stations, Wongwian Yai, near Central Plaza Lat Phrao, Saladaeng skytrain station and Patpong, a pedestrian bridge in front of Pantip Plaza, an area in front of Chatuchak weekend market, Bang Khae market and a pedestrian bridge in front of The Mall Bang Khae, Saphan Mai Don Muang market, and an area near Makro Bang Bon.

--Bangkok Post 2005-05-13

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hi, i am only scared that the wrong ones will be the victim here and not the one who's responseble.

By refusing to buy there goods or give finiancle suppport,they will starve or look to other means what can be wurse than today.

Criminality will rise and poverty will grow.

The answer is to find a salution to the beginning off the problem"poverty"

The kost to reëducated them is small if you know that they can be productief in the future.

Make deals with local companys to give them jobs and guide them in there devolopment within the sociaty.

For most off them the modern world is a strange place and they have no idea what to do,they are victims off our modern world.

If you start to help them now,the problem will solve it self.

Take ACTIONS and RESPECT them!!!

[shaunoro]

Will this crackdown last as long as last year---2 weeks?

The PM is to eradicate poverty in Thailand by end of 2005, ergo problem solved.

The beggers at Prom Pong station on the soi 33/1 side of Sukhumvit are definately organised.

The lady with the child actually changes the child on a daily basis.

Now there are three women there with a differnet baby each day.

I will only give change to "really"handicapped beggers.

[Scott]

It seems to be an Asian mind-set that begging is really bad. Have seen the same thing in other countries.

Begging has got to be the most difficult and demeaning thing to have to do.

I have no problem in stepping over and walking around them, but occasionally someone clicks and gets a few baht.

I hope they get gang leaders, but I am afraid it will be the truly destitute that will get the raw end of the crackdown.

[Jinnah]

My opinion? Stick to Thailand. Siam reminds me of Yul Brynner (the lead actor in the King of Siam) and cats, nether of which float my boat.....

[Jinnah]

EEEEk! Wrog topic!! Now how did that happen? I was reading the 'Siam or Thailand' strand, click on @Add Reply' and it ends up here. Somply beggers belief ...... hehehe

[booma]

Has anyone else seen the 2 toddlers whose (ostensible) relative begs outside BTS Asoke?

They seem to be unconscious, not just asleep. A friend told me they were dosed to keep them like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sad but true i'm afraid, I have heard of this going on and have witnessed it myself.

I saw a young boy looking deeply unconsious with eyes rolling in the backs of his sockets. A concerned look to his Mother uncovered her guilt. Very disturbing.

Getting back on topic, I never give money to the child beggers as this always goes to the gang's or parents, I always give a child a drink or some food, this is nearly always consumed instantly.

Edited May 14, 2005 by booma

[Heng]

That was very nice project by the government but again and again, they should track down the root cause of the problem. "POVERTY" is the root cause of the beggars anywhere. I think the best project they should do is: How to give proper education with those needy in every part of Thailand. 

Unfortunately, laziness and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

Unfortunately, avarice and taking advantage of the poorest sectors of society's vulnerability and foibles by a relatively small minority of the population (i.e. the nouveau riche) is also a cause of the ingrained poverty here. Then they have the cheek to deride the poor's "lack of work ethic and laziness", while they screw them out of their last baht on a daily basis. How do you get rid of that root cause?

Just to add:

Unfortunately, laziness, blaming others, instead of taking action to remedy their poverty themselves and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

[OxfordWill]

Finding a Christian who does not offend you, sweet OxfordWill, is as difficult as finding one of your postings that:

1) displays wit

2) shows an understanding for the difficulties of earning a baht in LOS when you have not been born with the advantages of privilege and wealth ( generously at least 80% of Siam) in a society that has no social net and where until less than a hundred years ago these disadvantaged were actually slaves of the upper class.

Tom,

I need not make efforts to show you that many Christians do not 'offend' me. Those that do are akin to any human who offends me - those that are hypocritical, such as yourself. Do not preach christian values and then go about insulting strangers.

I believe I have made one post that could come under the topic of 'difficulties of earning a baht in LOS' and it happened to demonstrate to you that your particular view of the topic of begging in the world is not the only viewpoint to consider. No doubt you disliked that being done, but it doesn't permit you such sweeping generalisations.

It seems to me that it is of importance to you that you feel you are the only, or one of the few, posters here who has any concern, experience with, or care for those underprivileged living in Thailand and beyond. Perhaps life has given you this mental cruch upon which you have come to depend; regardless, you do your cause no good by taking such an attitude.

Possibly, there are people here who have done more than you to these 'good' ends but who simply do not shout about it from the tall towers. Your eagerness to judge prevents you from ever finding out, and so you shall no doubt continue!

To the real issue - a crackdown on the gangs that make a living out of beggars can only ultimately be good for the beggars themselves. The alternative is for the government to do nothing, and nobody with real concern can support such a suggestion.

[quiddity]

Has anyone else seen the 2 toddlers whose (ostensible) relative begs outside BTS Asoke?

They seem to be unconscious, not just asleep. A friend told me they were dosed to keep them like that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about that dude with one arm and one leg on opposite sides (Sukhumvit near Nana)? I've heard the stories of working for pimps in other countries, too. I wonder what percentage that really represents. I dunno.

Yeah, that dude with one arm/leg is a pretty sad story, regardless of who's getting the money. Objectively speaking, the idea of dragging yourself down the Sukhumvit sidewalk on your belly is pretty danged funky.

Even if he makes 200 or 300 baht, ###### even 1,000 baht, that's pretty freakin' miserable. I mean, $25 or less per day is some dung to be rifling through doggie doo, human spit and god only knows what kind of pollution.

When I was in Turkey, I heard that the crippled street beggars had been maimed by the pimps. I don't know if this true or not. I don't buy myths outright but, judging by the nastiness in the human species, nothing surprises me.

[Thomas_Merton]

Tom,

OxfordWill,

I include you posting here - my comments are written in blue:

I need not make efforts to show you that many Christians do not 'offend' me.

That’s nice to hear.

Those that do are akin to any human who offends me - those that are hypocritical, such as yourself.

This is very close to flaming – but let it go. It is the standard repost to anyone who comes to refer to some “religious” background for a point of view. I say what I mean and believe what a say, Should I ever (very rarely) suggest a way of behaving in a certain matter; it is always something I do, or have done in similar situations. If this is hypocrisy, so be it.

Do not preach christian values and then go about insulting strangers.

And why not? This is a forum. People express views, opinions and values on a forum. Sometimes the odd insult gets thrown and it is always returned like a smart back hand, hopefully with some semblance of wit. Somehow you feel this is in conflict with Christian values: if I was to behave like Jesus or the Lord Buddha on this forum, or any where else, then I really would be a hypocrite.

I believe I have made one post that could come under the topic of 'difficulties of earning a baht in LOS' and it happened to demonstrate to you that your particular view of the topic of begging in the world is not the only viewpoint to consider. No doubt you disliked that being done,

No I don’t dislike it being done; I just disagree with the point of view.

but it doesn't permit you such sweeping generalisations.

If permission to make generalisations was a prerequisite for posting on Thaivisa, 99.9% of all postings would have to be removed.

It seems to me that it is of importance to you that you feel you are the only, or one of the few, posters here who has any concern, experience with, or care for those underprivileged living in Thailand and beyond.

Far from it, although I am rather disappointed more members do not openly take a stance on matters more important than the castration of paedophiles etc.

Perhaps life has given you this mental cruch upon which you have come to depend; regardless, you do your cause no good by taking such an attitude.

This also comes close to flaming, but if you don’t like my attitude and yet have no argument, you could always ignore me.

Possibly, there are people here who have done more than you to these 'good' ends

I hope so

but who simply do not shout about it from the tall towers.

You flatter Thaivisa

Your eagerness to judge prevents you from ever finding out, and so you shall no doubt continue!

What a meaningless and silly statement. All opinions, by definition, are judgements. Should every poster to Thaivisa who has an opinion cease to continue?

To the real issue - a crackdown on the gangs that make a living out of beggars can only ultimately be good for the beggars themselves. The alternative is for the government to do nothing,

Rubbish. There too are many other alternatives – to name a few:

- Educational reform

- Introduction of a social welfare system

- Develop a health service that can be accessed by all Thai citizens etc. etc.

Rounding up beggars, legitimate or not, is just trimming the leaves by a government unfortunately more interested in competing with the western world in the realms of the material advancement of the elite, than tackling the fundamental causes of the poverty of the majority of its citizens. IMHO.

Edited May 14, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[Donno]

My experience with beggars began when I was having dinner by the side of the lake with my wife. We had bought food from the food stalls in the street. This little boy came over and asked for a hand out, I offered him some food and he refused it and wanted money. I asumed he wasn't a hungry beggar and told him to go.

[thymode91]

That was very nice project by the government but again and again, they should track down the root cause of the problem. "POVERTY" is the root cause of the beggars anywhere. I think the best project they should do is: How to give proper education with those needy in every part of Thailand. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, laziness and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, avarice and taking advantage of the poorest sectors of society's vulnerability and foibles by a relatively small minority of the population (i.e. the nouveau riche) is also a cause of the ingrained poverty here. Then they have the cheek to deride the poor's "lack of work ethic and laziness", while they screw them out of their last baht on a daily basis. How do you get rid of that root cause?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to add:

Unfortunately, laziness, blaming others, instead of taking action to remedy their poverty themselves and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually "POVERTY" is everywhere, specially in a 3rd world country but it can be solve easily by having the good manner and right conduct. A good descipline should came from the very first time with each individual inside the family. FAMILY should play a great role to motivate all the members in a good shape and be ready to face their own life in the future. Close family ties is the best way to develop each individuals. We should not overlook our role as a member of the family. Therefore, we better start to develop our own now then give help to others soon.

[OxfordWill]

Tom, you ask 'why not?' to 'Don't preach Christian values and then insult strangers.'

You say 'flame!' to being shown your own hypocrisy, and dig further by impliciting that 'it's ok because all thaivisa does it!'

I criticise you for making generalisations to which you reply 'everyone on thaivisa does it guv'nor!'

I realise I have to allow for the fact that you're a doctor of history and therefore not familiar with proper argumentation, but I should think that even your 'paedophile castraters' are able to spot some problems! That a good enough back of the hand for you? Probably not!

You posit further alternatives:

- Educational reform

And in the years it shall take, you're happy for nothing to be done about the beggars being abused today?

- Introduction of a social welfare system

And for the years it would take, you're happy for nothing to be done about the beggars being abused today?

- Develop a health service that can be accessed by all Thai citizens etc. etc.

And for the years..

Obviously these long term alternatives are the proper way to go about things, as evidenced elsewhere in the world. However this does absolutely nothing to show that it is not right for the police, today, to run about Bangkok and do what they can to round up the beggars involved (probably reluctantly) in these gangs and, as the news article said, help them.

It's clear you and I agree on the fundamentals, but I am shocked to hear you would not support such immediate action. Nobody is suggestion it is 'either or'.

[Thomas_Merton]

It's clear you and I agree on the fundamentals...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...then stop wasting bandwidth.

Have a nice day.

[chownah]

It's clear you and I agree on the fundamentals...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...then stop wasting bandwidth.

Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of bandwidth wastage....what else happens on TV?

[Thomas_Merton]

It's clear you and I agree on the fundamentals...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...then stop wasting bandwidth.

Have a nice day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of bandwidth wastage....what else happens on TV?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[OxfordWill]

Glad your mind is changed, Thomas. Good luck to the police I say.

[Thomas_Merton]

Glad your mind is changed, Thomas. Good luck to the police I say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Res ipsa loquitur.

You must be right, or how else could you allow me the last word?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets

[mnoorsapl]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....and crack down on the selling of garland and newspapers at traffic light junctions

[mnoorsapl]

That was very nice project by the government but again and again, they should track down the root cause of the problem. "POVERTY" is the root cause of the beggars anywhere. I think the best project they should do is: How to give proper education with those needy in every part of Thailand. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, laziness and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately, avarice and taking advantage of the poorest sectors of society's vulnerability and foibles by a relatively small minority of the population (i.e. the nouveau riche) is also a cause of the ingrained poverty here. Then they have the cheek to deride the poor's "lack of work ethic and laziness", while they screw them out of their last baht on a daily basis. How do you get rid of that root cause?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just to add:

Unfortunately, laziness, blaming others, instead of taking action to remedy their poverty themselves and lack of work ethic is the cause of a lot of poverty here as well. How do you get rid of the root cause of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually "POVERTY" is everywhere, specially in a 3rd world country but it can be solve easily by having the good manner and right conduct. A good descipline should came from the very first time with each individual inside the family. FAMILY should play a great role to motivate all the members in a good shape and be ready to face their own life in the future. Close family ties is the best way to develop each individuals. We should not overlook our role as a member of the family. Therefore, we better start to develop our own now then give help to others soon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Amen, so mote it be.

"Charity begins at home".

[chownah]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....and crack down on the selling of garland and newspapers at traffic light junctions

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually people selling thing in the street and even at the curb at busy intersections distract drivers and contribute to accidents. I would not ban begging even though I don't give to beggars. I would, however, ban selling things in these places.

[Sphere]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They already are! That's why they havent got rid of those dengue mosquitoes yet. Everyone knows it takes at least 2 mozzies to push an elephant back to Surin.

[OxfordWill]

I still haven't found out what job that guy who goes to work on his elephant down sukhumvit actually does. Probably something touristy..

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They already are! That's why they havent got rid of those dengue mosquitoes yet. Everyone knows it takes at least 2 mozzies to push an elephant back to Surin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[mnoorsapl]

Next thing they'll crack down on is the elephants wandering Bangkok streets 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

....and crack down on the selling of garland and newspapers at traffic light junctions

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually people selling thing in the street and even at the curb at busy intersections distract drivers and contribute to accidents. I would not ban begging even though I don't give to beggars. I would, however, ban selling things in these places.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Organised begging is a crime, and it should be stopped. Manipulating the handicapped to raised $$$ , should be penalised. sawadee