How To Stop The Million Man March Legitimately

[tonywebster]

if they didn't have the vote then their opinion would mean diddly squat, just like our opinions here.

Speak for yourself.

and your opinion matters does it?

yes of course it does

[tonywebster]

But one way to possibly stabilise the country as Mark so often claims would be to call and election and get an elected government into power.

Shows how little you know about the current situation if you think that elections right at this time would have a stablizing effect. I can't think of many things more destabilizing to be honest.

I refer you to my earlier post where I do indeed mention the downside of an election now, however i still feel this the way forward.

Rather than give snide replies (as you seem to do quite often when faced with different opinions to your high and mighty ones) why don't you explain why you think it would be destabilizing, please eductae this idiot that seems to know little.

[maahuanao]

I can't think of many things more destabilizing to be honest.

There is one obvious thing............ and a properly elected government being in place before that day comes might prevent serious turmoil.

[Jingthing]

Are you suggesting they just sit there and do nothing or should they make their voices heard? If I find the time or the inclination I may look back at the forum and read your opinions at the time of the airport takeover and see if you were in vocal support of such actions, then I may understand you better.

Typical tripe. If you are anti-red you must be pro yellow. NO! That is completely wrong.

[lazygourmet]

remember the millions that turned up to get the Berlin wall down, the velvet revolution in Czech. all wanted democracy, no matter how you look at it the guy won 3 elections, they banned his party so they set up PPP who stormed to victory again, then sacked the PM for the henous crime of making a cookery show on TV. why is Taskin a traitor becuse he works for a neighbouring country. if you had no money for hospital treatment, then some guy bring in a scheme that says for 30 baht you get all the treatment you need, saved thousands of lives including my father in law, would you note vote for him. this goverment did not get voted in democratically. if the majority want him as prime Minister then thats it end of story its democracy, Germany took away democracy from the Polish look what happened them. we went to war to give the Iraqies democracy, only after no wmd. taskin is the rightful leader of this country, so say the MAJORITY. if Mark had the most votes i would support him, but he does not simple as. ballaot box over tanks and guns anyday. taskin most farangs had never heard of Taskin until he bought in the 2 am closing then thats it hes the devil. people have the right to protest in my country why should they be stopped of marching in support of their democracy that was taken away with the barrels of tanks.

Taksin did not bring the 2.00 am closing... that was the idea of Purachai who was interior minister at that time, and now living happilly in his New Zealand farm after all the mess they did... him Dr. Pure & Mr. T.

[tonywebster]

Are you suggesting they just sit there and do nothing or should they make their voices heard? If I find the time or the inclination I may look back at the forum and read your opinions at the time of the airport takeover and see if you were in vocal support of such actions, then I may understand you better.

Typical tripe. If you are anti-red you must be pro yellow. NO! That is completely wrong.

Did you support the yellows with their actions or did you protest against them on thaivisa as vociferously as you condemn the reds?

This will give me some understanding of your lack of understanding for the reds issues.

quite simple really, I am guessing that in your opinion the actions of the yellows was acceptable based on your posting, if I am wrong then it is your posting style and comments that have led me down that path.

[binnsy]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

WELL POSTED MARIO WHAT EVER COLOUR YOUR SHIRT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS

[WinnieTheKhwai]

What heroic movement has corrupt convicted fugitive criminal Thaksin NOT been compared to? [...] Don't forget Black Songkran, those are the kinds of violent thugs the government is dealing with.

Lets be objective here, admit the faults from both sides and people may take your posts more seriously, reading your posts is like reading the Nation.

Ouch! ( But wait, he might not even be offended by that..? )

Edited March 3, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[tonywebster]

What heroic movement has corrupt convicted fugitive criminal Thaksin NOT been compared to? [...] Don't forget Black Songkran, those are the kinds of violent thugs the government is dealing with.

Lets be objective here, admit the faults from both sides and people may take your posts more seriously, reading your posts is like reading the Nation.

Ouch! ( But wait, he might not even be offended by that..? )

it was not meant to cause offence

[ballpoint]

You really must wonder at those who continue to defend Thaksin despite the unassailable evidence against him. Leaving aside the crimes against humanity that haven't yet been, if ever will be, officially laid against him, over the past year alone we have had:

-Black Songkhran - two deaths and millions of baht worth of damage inflicted by his supporters following his call for revolution. A call which was accompanied by the stampede of his own family as it fled the country.

-The stirring up of tensions between Thailand and Cambodia. Granted, there is far more to this than Thaksin's involvement alone, but for him to have accepted the invitation to be economic advisor, the various "proof" of government tactics made by his supporters in general, and Jatuporn in particular, and the bizarre spy trial in which he juat happened to be able to get a pardon for the accused, certainly did nothing to ease the tension.

-The threats and 'predictions' of violence and formation of armies made in his name.

-The assets trial. Just one of the charges would see him go down for a long time in any true democracy. The fact that he was found guilty on all, and the evidence is out in the open - it would be an extremely blinkered person who would accuse it of being fabricated, would see him finished in politics and society in any of those same democracies. He stole around 150billion baht from the Thai people. It's very hard to see the reasoning behind defending him, despite what he may or may not have done for the country as PM, when faced with this fact alone. Unless being offered a share of the purloined booty for doing so.

By all means, let the million man march go ahead without hindrance. The best thing that could happen for the current government will be when a few tens of thousands show up. The worst thing will be when they follow the path taken last songkhran, where they proved at first that they can protest peacefully, but then showed us all that they don't like being ignored and threw a tantrum, leading to deaths, threats of home destruction, and the actual destruction of public property. Let's hope the government comes down on them hard should things even look like reaching that stage again. One thing not to be taken lightly will be the actions of Bangkok residents. No matter how many marchers the reds get, they will be outnumbered by locals, who will not take kindly to threats against their homes and livelihoods, and may make pre-emptive attacks. Just as 9/11 changed the way all air passengers will now react to hijackers, so did black songkhran change the way Bangkok residents will react to violent protestors.

[tonywebster]

Just as 9/11 changed the way all air passengers will now react to hijackers, so did black songkhran change the way Bangkok residents will react to violent protestors.

this is all that quote deserves

[jdinasia]

did PPP get more votes than any other party.

Marginally yes. That wasn't what i was disputing however. "Storming to victory" is. Don't you think it's a strange way to descibe failing to get a majority and spending a couple of weeks cobbling together a coalition? I do.

does it matter if i was here or not?,

To me it does. Why do you think reporters travel all over the world to report on stories, when they could arguably do it from the studio back home. Why? Because to really understand an issue and be informed on it i think you have to be there.

If there are two people offering an opinion of Thai politics, one person is a regular holiday-maker here and likes to read about Thai news on the internet, and the other has been living and working here for the past ten, twenty years, i know whose opinion i think carries more weight.

I think that answers most of your questions. Can you return the favor and tell me why it is that Thaksin's party didn't win the last election with a majority, if what you say is true that: "taskin is the rightful leader of this country, so say the MAJORITY." ??

Rix ---

Actually if you look at the raw number of votes the PPP did NOT get more than anyone else. The Dem's did. The PPP won more constituencies but did not get more votes.

Now --- as long as there is the 1 man 4 vote system here I think we will continue to see massive vote buying by the reds. It seems more than marginally hypocritical to hold forth on "democracy" and "elections" when discussing a group that has TWICE been banned due to electoral fraud.

BTW-- Samak didn't get knocked out of the PM slot for the cooking show. He got knocked out for lying about the cooking show.

[ballpoint]

Just as 9/11 changed the way all air passengers will now react to hijackers, so did black songkhran change the way Bangkok residents will react to violent protestors.

this is all that quote deserves

You really don't get it do you? Pre 9/11 advice for a passenger on a hijacked flight was to sit calmly, wait for the plane to land and be released. Post 9/11 advice? Jump on anyone who even looks like setting fire to his underpants. Pre black songkhran advice to Bangkok residents during protests: Carry on with your daily lives while avoiding Rachadamnoen/Sanam Luang areas. Post black songkhran? Jump on any protestor who even looks like marching/driving a tanker into your residential/work area. Just as 9/11 saw the introduction of a whole slew of security checks to pre-empt terrorism, so too has black songkhran meant that the government must do the same to ensure the situation is controlled before things get out of hand. Just as any airport allowing passengers to board flights without proper security checks would be acting extremely foolishly, so too would any government allowing a protest to take place without ensuring measures are taken to contain it if need be. To use another metaphor, the red children have proven that they can't pay peacefully with others, and are now squealing that an adult must watch them every time they now go out.

[rixalex]

Rix ---

Actually if you look at the raw number of votes the PPP did NOT get more than anyone else. The Dem's did. The PPP won more constituencies but did not get more votes.

Thanks JD. Yes i was aware of that, but obviously the raw number mean little unless Thailand adopts proportional representation.

[tonywebster]

Just as 9/11 changed the way all air passengers will now react to hijackers, so did black songkhran change the way Bangkok residents will react to violent protestors.

this is all that quote deserves

You really don't get it do you? Pre 9/11 advice for a passenger on a hijacked flight was to sit calmly, wait for the plane to land and be released. Post 9/11 advice? Jump on anyone who even looks like setting fire to his underpants. Pre black songkhran advice to Bangkok residents during protests: Carry on with your daily lives while avoiding Rachadamnoen/Sanam Luang areas. Post black songkhran? Jump on any protestor who even looks like marching/driving a tanker into your residential/work area. Just as 9/11 saw the introduction of a whole slew of security checks to pre-empt terrorism, so too has black songkhran meant that the government must do the same to ensure the situation is controlled before things get out of hand. Just as any airport allowing passengers to board flights without proper security checks would be acting extremely foolishly, so too would any government allowing a protest to take place without ensuring measures are taken to contain it if need be. To use another metaphor, the red children have proven that they can't pay peacefully with others, and are now squealing that an adult must watch them every time they now go out.

yes I do get it, and it still deserves

[jdinasia]

if Mark had the most votes i would support him,

I guess you support him then

[harrry]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

WELL POSTED MARIO WHAT EVER COLOUR YOUR SHIRT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS

However no one has the right to put the public at risk either by dangerous unroadworthy vehicles on the highway to Bangkok or by burning unguided busses;.

Edited March 3, 2010 by harrry

[tonywebster]

if Mark had the most votes i would support him,

I guess you support him then

does he have the most votes from the electorate? did his party win enough seats to form the government or did the PPP win enough with a coalition? Surely if the dems were wanted they would have been voted in at the last election, they were not voted in and had to rely on the disbandment of the ruling party, I know you will say for vote buying etc but I am sure there were also dems disqualified for this.

Anyway there is one way to solve this, he is confident that he will 240 seats so put it to the vote, let the Thai people decide rather than a bunch of farangs trying to score brownie points of one another on an anonymous internet forum.

[tonywebster]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

WELL POSTED MARIO WHAT EVER COLOUR YOUR SHIRT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS

However no one has the right to put the public at risk either by dangerous unroadworthy vehicles on the highway to Bangkok or by burning unguided busses;.

or by taking over airports and firing guns in the street or beating people that tried to walk through their little fiefdom around government house.

Just balancing it for you

[harrry]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

WELL POSTED MARIO WHAT EVER COLOUR YOUR SHIRT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS

However no one has the right to put the public at risk either by dangerous unroadworthy vehicles on the highway to Bangkok or by burning unguided busses;.

or by taking over airports and firing guns in the street or beating people that tried to walk through their little fiefdom around government house.

Just balancing it for you

I agree with this too.

[jdinasia]

if Mark had the most votes i would support him,

I guess you support him then

does he have the most votes from the electorate? did his party win enough seats to form the government or did the PPP win enough with a coalition? Surely if the dems were wanted they would have been voted in at the last election, they were not voted in and had to rely on the disbandment of the ruling party, I know you will say for vote buying etc but I am sure there were also dems disqualified for this.

Anyway there is one way to solve this, he is confident that he will 240 seats so put it to the vote, let the Thai people decide rather than a bunch of farangs trying to score brownie points of one another on an anonymous internet forum.

You have had this addressed innumerable times .. There is no reason that PM Abhisit should call fresh elections at this time while his term of office and his coalition are still valid/in place.

Again you plaster the forum with apples and oranges .... Vote buying etc-- TRT and and PPP leadership were involved in electoral fraud. No Dem leadership has been found to be involved in electoral fraud. Party dissolution occurs when party executives are caught breaking electoral law.

The fact that the minor parties that helped PPP form a coalition had agreed PRIOR to the elections not to do that is only an issue to their constituents. The fact that they jumped ship is again only an issue to their electorate.

I get that you are trying to, as you call it, "score points on an anonymous internet forum". Pushing the red (anything BUT democratic) agenda is just your way to do that. Snapping at people for "snide" remarks and then answering with " " is all that someone's well thought out reply is worth ???? typical.

[tonywebster]

if Mark had the most votes i would support him,

I guess you support him then

does he have the most votes from the electorate? did his party win enough seats to form the government or did the PPP win enough with a coalition? Surely if the dems were wanted they would have been voted in at the last election, they were not voted in and had to rely on the disbandment of the ruling party, I know you will say for vote buying etc but I am sure there were also dems disqualified for this.

Anyway there is one way to solve this, he is confident that he will 240 seats so put it to the vote, let the Thai people decide rather than a bunch of farangs trying to score brownie points of one another on an anonymous internet forum.

You have had this addressed innumerable times .. There is no reason that PM Abhisit should call fresh elections at this time while his term of office and his coalition are still valid/in place.

Again you plaster the forum with apples and oranges .... Vote buying etc-- TRT and and PPP leadership were involved in electoral fraud. No Dem leadership has been found to be involved in electoral fraud. Party dissolution occurs when party executives are caught breaking electoral law.

The fact that the minor parties that helped PPP form a coalition had agreed PRIOR to the elections not to do that is only an issue to their constituents. The fact that they jumped ship is again only an issue to their electorate.

I get that you are trying to, as you call it, "score points on an anonymous internet forum". Pushing the red (anything BUT democratic) agenda is just your way to do that. Snapping at people for "snide" remarks and then answering with " " is all that someone's well thought out reply is worth ???? typical.

are we talking about fruits now?

The dems were involved with vote buying, FACT

The dems did not win enough seats to form a government, FACT

The dems were only able to form a government in this century due to the dissolution of the government, FACT

the dems have the ability to put this question to bed by calling an election giving the chance to serve a full term, they wont call an election because they will lose, FACT

the dems assisted in the takeover of the airport and in civil unrest, FACT

as for being a red, not at all, I take no sides, but feel it prudent to point out when others cleary do take one side and show massive levels of hypocrisy in their posting. Like my friend who has yet to answer my question as to whether he supported the yellows when they committed their crimes.

if people are more balanced, if they highlight both sides misdemeanour's when they highlight just one sides then I am sure their posts will come accross and more objective and educated rather than the bias claptrap that it actually is. The sad thing is that some people will read their **** and buy into it, it leads to problems rather than solves them.

do yourself a favour, you are not stupid

[Moonrakers]

Well I was going to reply in this topic, but considering that it has degenerated into the same old lies and rhetoric again I shan't bother.

[rixalex]

the dems have the ability to put this question to bed by calling an election giving the chance to serve a full term, they wont call an election because they will lose, FACT

Putting aside the fact that speculation as to the results of a future election is simply that, speculation (to state it as being a FACT is stupid), let's suppose you are correct in your wishful thinking. Why on earth would any government go to the polls facing certain defeat before they had to - before they had served their term? What sense would it make? Sure, the reds would be happy. Sure, Thaksin would be gleeful and no doubt whitewashed of all charges. But what about the rest of the country? What about them? Not important?

Democrats are legally and legitimately leading the nation now and have a responsibilty to do what is right - not just for the reds but for the country as a whole. They will decide when to go the polls as is their right, and none of the moaning you or the reds do will change that.

[maahuanao]

Democrats are legally and legitimately leading the nation now and have a responsibilty to do what is right -

That is how the middle / upper classes that want their grip on power to remain at any cost see it. However the lower / working classes see it rather differently, and there is the reason for the tension, if Abhisit and his bosses really wanted what was best for Thailand as a whole then surely holding an election and actually sticking with the result would end any feelings of injustice.

I am not a Thaksin apologist, I would just like the majority to get their voice heard, sadly they are unlikely to ever get a fair crack of the whip.

[basjke]

I thought we were guests in this country so where did we get the right to even consider stopping a political event.

[neverdie]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

Mario,

When I am the worlds DICTATOR, there will be no demonstrations or public gatherings that are not approved by me. Just to give you heads up, no approvals will be given either. Capiche?

ps: You are permitted to bow at my statue as much as you like

Edited March 3, 2010 by neverdie

[Netfan]

Democrats are legally and legitimately leading the nation now and have a responsibilty to do what is right -

That is how the middle / upper classes that want their grip on power to remain at any cost see it. However the lower / working classes see it rather differently, and there is the reason for the tension, if Abhisit and his bosses really wanted what was best for Thailand as a whole then surely holding an election and actually sticking with the result would end any feelings of injustice.

I am not a Thaksin apologist, I would just like the majority to get their voice heard, sadly they are unlikely to ever get a fair crack of the whip.

The lower / middle classes voted. Their votes were counted. Their party could not put a coalition together. So they wait until the next election. That is how it works. What is so hard about that to understand? BTW, if its such a class thing, why is the south so Democratic party leaning? Or are there no working / poor in the south? What about Bangkok - funny, I seem to see quite a few working / poor around, but Bangkok leans towards the Dems. Maybe Thaksin's popularity has something to do with all the money spread around by TRT/PPP to buy votes in the north and northeast. And his carried through threat to cut off money for any province that dared vote against him. Is that how you define "democracy"?

[maahuanao]

Democrats are legally and legitimately leading the nation now and have a responsibilty to do what is right -

That is how the middle / upper classes that want their grip on power to remain at any cost see it. However the lower / working classes see it rather differently, and there is the reason for the tension, if Abhisit and his bosses really wanted what was best for Thailand as a whole then surely holding an election and actually sticking with the result would end any feelings of injustice.

I am not a Thaksin apologist, I would just like the majority to get their voice heard, sadly they are unlikely to ever get a fair crack of the whip.

The lower / middle classes voted. Their votes were counted. Their party could not put a coalition together. So they wait until the next election. That is how it works. What is so hard about that to understand? BTW, if its such a class thing, why is the south so Democratic party leaning? Or are there no working / poor in the south? What about Bangkok - funny, I seem to see quite a few working / poor around, but Bangkok leans towards the Dems. Maybe Thaksin's popularity has something to do with all the money spread around by TRT/PPP to buy votes in the north and northeast. And his carried through threat to cut off money for any province that dared vote against him. Is that how you define "democracy"?

Do you see the word democracy in my reply? No? So why would you think I'm trying to define democracy?

Government of the people, for the people, by the people was a fair definition I always thought.........

[Netfan]

Do you see the word democracy in my reply? No? So why would you think I'm trying to define democracy?

Government of the people, for the people, by the people was a fair definition I always thought.........

Sorry, I was just using the magic word invoked by Thaksin and UDD. I just thought "democracy" was what this whole fight was about. We all know there is no such thing as a "perfect" democracy that truly represents the "of the people, for the people, by the people". But it could be said that the reason Thaksin was removed was because he was taking down the safeguards that protected Thailand from becoming a dictatorship- it was well on its way to being a government of Thaksin, for Thaksin and by Thaksin- the interests of the "people" only came into it when he was deposed.