How To Stop The Million Man March Legitimately

[maahuanao]

Sorry, I was just using the magic word invoked by Thaksin and UDD. I just thought "democracy" was what this whole fight was about. We all know there is no such thing as a "perfect" democracy that truly represents the "of the people, for the people, by the people". But it could be said that the reason Thaksin was removed was because he was taking down the safeguards that protected Thailand from becoming a dictatorship- it was well on its way to being a government of Thaksin, for Thaksin and by Thaksin- the interests of the "people" only came into it when he was deposed.

I understand what you're saying, all I have been trying to say is that all of these feelings of injustice and resentment are only going to have any chance (albeit slim) of being put to bed when everybody believes that the government are in place because that is what the majority want.

[jayjayjayjay]

Why would you want to stop a march? are you against democracy? is your shirt yellow?

democracy?, you mean the red hypocrasy?

i am not a yellow shirt

i dance to the beat of my own drum

not that of the traitor Thaksin

what about you?

hypocrisy and democracy can be bedfellows, you however suggesting suppression of freedom of speech is hypocritical, can see threw your thin veil of PAD support.

[jayjayjayjay]

are we talking about fruits now?

The dems were involved with vote buying, FACT

The dems did not win enough seats to form a government, FACT

The dems were only able to form a government in this century due to the dissolution of the government, FACT

the dems have the ability to put this question to bed by calling an election giving the chance to serve a full term, they wont call an election because they will lose, FACT

the dems assisted in the takeover of the airport and in civil unrest, FACT

as for being a red, not at all, I take no sides, but feel it prudent to point out when others cleary do take one side and show massive levels of hypocrisy in their posting. Like my friend who has yet to answer my question as to whether he supported the yellows when they committed their crimes.

if people are more balanced, if they highlight both sides misdemeanour's when they highlight just one sides then I am sure their posts will come accross and more objective and educated rather than the bias claptrap that it actually is. The sad thing is that some people will read their **** and buy into it, it leads to problems rather than solves them.

do yourself a favour, you are not stupid

Tony, could not have made it clearer, cheers, jd's boat is sunk.

[bkkjames]

Back to the topic at hand I have a couple of seriously sarcastic suggestions.

1) Announce a crackdown on pick-up trucks

2) Announce that Big (letter after is having a 3 for 1 family day special in the food court.

3) Initiate road construction on all the main arteries from the NE into Bangkok.

4) Announce that in each community there will be a Majung Karoke Contest with free phones for the first 50,000 people that show up.

5) Announce that all trucks made by toy, niss and isuz have been recalled during that weekend only

6) Announce that Bangkok is closed for the weekend.

7) Get the weather to cooperate

8) Get TAT to appoint the NE as the Hub of Discontent and Hub of Unseen Hubs

9) Reschedule the upcoming world cup final to be held on the 14th of March

and last and certainly least

10) Announce that the 14th of March is to become "National Walking Day".

[WinnieTheKhwai]

the Hub of Unseen Hubs

(I appreciate that one. )

10) Announce that the 14th of March is to become "National Walking Day".

A protest action by a European gay rights group comes to mind, who asked gay students to call in sick for the day in protest of something or another. Imagine what that did to people who really were sick that day.

So in the spirit of this topic, and to lighten it up a little, they could declare a city-wide Gay Parade for Bangkok, with Red being the color of choice. (At least one South Park episode also come to mind.)

Edited March 3, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[Netfan]

Sorry, I was just using the magic word invoked by Thaksin and UDD. I just thought "democracy" was what this whole fight was about. We all know there is no such thing as a "perfect" democracy that truly represents the "of the people, for the people, by the people". But it could be said that the reason Thaksin was removed was because he was taking down the safeguards that protected Thailand from becoming a dictatorship- it was well on its way to being a government of Thaksin, for Thaksin and by Thaksin- the interests of the "people" only came into it when he was deposed.

I understand what you're saying, all I have been trying to say is that all of these feelings of injustice and resentment are only going to have any chance (albeit slim) of being put to bed when everybody believes that the government are in place because that is what the majority want.

There are feelings of "not being represented" by the losers (and I mean that as non-winners) in every election - look at the US when Bush beat Gore - Gore got the majority of the popular vote and lost. Now the Republicans feel disenfranchised. And yes, the people of Isaan have valid complaints. But the people I see causing political turmoil are not those people - its Thaksin's hired help - Jatuporn, Noppadon, Charlerm, Jakrabop, and the generals. If they would stop stirring up trouble - calling for the violent overthrow of the government, maybe Thailand could have an election. The aforementioned crew care about the interests of the poor of Isaan about as much as they care about me. They are getting paid to keep the pressure on the government. If there were elections and PTP didn't come out on top with a coalition, it would be game over - last thing they want. Sucking Thaksin dry to fund these demonstrations is a pretty good living, so why stop?

[WeeGB]

We could do without the bickering and personal attacks.

I think the question is legitimate, why should a demonstration be prevented? It is a democratic right to voice ones opinion.

WELL POSTED MARIO WHAT EVER COLOUR YOUR SHIRT YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO VOICE YOUR OPINIONS

Even if the colour is canary yellow, Tractor Boy?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Especially when it's yellow. (Just stay away from any airports, and leave the guns at home please! )

Edited March 3, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai

[britmaveric]

Let them march, but very hard to get a crowd that big even in the very best scenario(s). I must admit I would be impressed if they were to do it. I can imagine the sea of red in/around Bangkok - be nightmare for traffic and pretty much stop everything.

Anyways let's see if they can get it done. :D

(no taking over govt buildings or airports please like the yellow thugs did)

Edited March 3, 2010 by britmaveric

[rixalex]

if Abhisit and his bosses really wanted what was best for Thailand as a whole then surely holding an election and actually sticking with the result would end any feelings of injustice.

Abhisit wanting what is best for Thailand i would think in his opinion depends on him staying in power as long as possible (ie the length of his term) and putting into effect his ideas.

As for sticking with the results, you can't blame anyone but the people who broke the law for the changes that occured post-elections.

And finally, as for ending feelings of injustice within society, how would a Thaksin friendly party achieve that (were they successful in an election) without sticking to rulings made against Thaksin and pushing for the other cases against him to proceed? They have regularly stated their intentions to have him pardoned and cleared of charges. So all that would happen is the people who currently feel hard done by would be satisfied, and the people currently satisfied would be feeling hard done by. End result: feelings of injustice remaining. What then? More elections right?

[manjara]

My wifes village in the North used to be solidly pro-Thaksin, but now they are split and leaning more and more towards the Dems.

As my MIL put it (paraphrased from Thai)

'If we are going to build the country, we need to start with the people. Education is the important thing and the Dems are doing good things there'

For a poor farming woman in her seventies, I was kind of surprised by that point of view, but I think it gives hope for democracy and gives me some confidence that not all peoples votes can be bought with cash!

[Netfan]

Let them march, but very hard to get a crowd that big even in the very best scenario(s). I must admit I would be impressed if they were to do it. I can imagine the sea of red in/around Bangkok - be nightmare for traffic and pretty much stop everything.

Anyways let's see if they can get it done. :D

(no taking over govt buildings or airports please like the yellow thugs did)

But using gas trucks as bombs, sending burning buses into crowds and throwing rocks and bottles at firemen is cool and fun while loaded on Mekong and yaba (hey - these should be red thumbs up, not yellow- come on mods, lets be fair)

Edited March 3, 2010 by Netfan

[rixalex]

(no taking over govt buildings or airports please like the yellow thugs did)

I share your feelings on those who took over govt buildings and airports, but wonder why as it is the red movement we are talking about, you didn't identify actions such as hijacking buses, lobbing molotov cocktails and threatening to blow up gas trucks. This would be more appropriate action for you to be appealing for them to not undertake, as it is in their own track-record.

[jdinasia]

You have had this addressed innumerable times .. There is no reason that PM Abhisit should call fresh elections at this time while his term of office and his coalition are still valid/in place.

Again you plaster the forum with apples and oranges .... Vote buying etc-- TRT and and PPP leadership were involved in electoral fraud. No Dem leadership has been found to be involved in electoral fraud. Party dissolution occurs when party executives are caught breaking electoral law.

The fact that the minor parties that helped PPP form a coalition had agreed PRIOR to the elections not to do that is only an issue to their constituents. The fact that they jumped ship is again only an issue to their electorate.

I get that you are trying to, as you call it, "score points on an anonymous internet forum". Pushing the red (anything BUT democratic) agenda is just your way to do that. Snapping at people for "snide" remarks and then answering with " " is all that someone's well thought out reply is worth ???? typical.

are we talking about fruits now?

The dems were involved with vote buying, FACT

The dems did not win enough seats to form a government, FACT

The dems were only able to form a government in this century due to the dissolution of the government, FACT

the dems have the ability to put this question to bed by calling an election giving the chance to serve a full term, they wont call an election because they will lose, FACT

the dems assisted in the takeover of the airport and in civil unrest, FACT

as for being a red, not at all, I take no sides, but feel it prudent to point out when others cleary do take one side and show massive levels of hypocrisy in their posting. Like my friend who has yet to answer my question as to whether he supported the yellows when they committed their crimes.

if people are more balanced, if they highlight both sides misdemeanour's when they highlight just one sides then I am sure their posts will come accross and more objective and educated rather than the bias claptrap that it actually is. The sad thing is that some people will read their **** and buy into it, it leads to problems rather than solves them.

do yourself a favour, you are not stupid

Yes we are talking about apples and oranges.

1) Dems and vote buying: Obfscation since party leadership versus the actions of an individual are not the same. Parties are dissolved when party LEADERSHIP is involved in electoral fraud. The Democrat party has not been found guilty of this. Members of many parties have been redcarded for this.

Leadership versus the action of an individual are not the same. Using this to obfuscate the issue is a poor argument since it compares what an individual has done in a single constituency to what party leadership has done across the board.

2)The dems did not win enough seats to form a government. Again outright obfusctaion. NOBODY won enough votes to form a government on their own. All three governments formed after the last elections have been coalition governments.

3)The dems were only able to form a government due to the last one being dissolved. Outwardly true BUT actually just speculation. Had PPP not been dissolved it is not unreasonable to assume that they would have lost their coalition partners and the Democrats would have been able to do what they did.

4)The dems could call an election but they would lose. Speculation and truly BASE speculation. Nobody got a clear majority in the last election and there is no reason to believe that the dems would not gain some seats and that they might be able to form the next coalition government. The REAL issue here is would the dems be doing the right thing for their constituents OR the country if they called early elections? The first is obviously no, the people that voted for them are best served by them continueing until the end of their term. The second question is, would a new election and the divisiveness it may cause HELP the country or hurt it? Arguable from either side but it just doesn't make sense and it leaves the questions, will PTP be buying votes and will PTP allow all candidates to run for office in each constituency? History might suggest that NO is the answer to both questions.

5)The "red gambit" --- bring out the PAD and link an entire party to the PAD due to the appearance on stage of a few. The vast majority of the Democratic party AND the Democratic leadership had nothing to do with any civil unrest OR the airport takeover.

Here's a good point to compare the Dems with PTP --- PTP leadership (TOP leadership) have stated they will whitewash Thaksin's crimes should they gain power while nobody is trying to whitewash the PAD. There are still PAD leadership that are active as defendants for many cases that are progressing. (The next red gambit is to ask why the speed of events are slower for the PAD than the reds and Thaksin --- the answer is that when a defendant is linked with others and asks for postponements they get them, link 9 together and then scheduling becomes an issue -- the fact that none of them have run away should be quite telling about many things).

As for you being "red", I am sorry but you obviously are red to the core. Your "facts" are mostly obfuscation and speculation and you stick solely with the "red" side, thus showing your bias (at least very plainly showing it to me!)

The only point that we can actually agree on is your last --- I am not stupid.

[hammered]

March. Protest. But please no airport seizure, no guns, no building seizures, no murders, no molotovs, no bus hijacking, no threatening to blow up LPG trucks.....

Did I leave anything out?

[Netfan]

March. Protest. But please no airport seizure, no guns, no building seizures, no murders, no molotovs, no bus hijacking, no threatening to blow up LPG trucks.....

Did I leave anything out?

[Ulysses G.]

If only the East German Stasi thought of this when people were going to the wall!

What heroic movement has corrupt convicted fugitive criminal Thaksin NOT been compared to? The trouble with these comparisons is that the red's man doesn't even begin to live up to them. Nelson Mandella, indeed.

Mandella was a convicted terrorist who ended up doing a lot of good things. There is no reason why Thaksin could not end up as a force for good as well.

[Netfan]

If only the East German Stasi thought of this when people were going to the wall!

What heroic movement has corrupt convicted fugitive criminal Thaksin NOT been compared to? The trouble with these comparisons is that the red's man doesn't even begin to live up to them. Nelson Mandella, indeed.

Mandella was a convicted terrorist who ended up doing a lot of good things. There is no reason why Thaksin could not end up as a force for good as well.

To the supporters of apartheid Mandela was a terrorist. He had a chance to leave South Africa. But he manned up and served his time - 27 years. Same with Suu Kyi - she could have left Burma years ago. Like Mandela, unlike Thaksin, she has principles. First thing Thaksin would have to do is show up- and he's too gutless to do that. Not even for the Million Man march. And can you imagine him in a prison? He wouldn't last 24 hours.

Edited March 3, 2010 by Netfan

[PeaceBlondie]

Not even 100,000 Thais will march, even if you pay them.

It's a shame the leader of the Reds is Thaksin.

[britmaveric]

^you might be surprised PB, but wouldnt be a wonderful thing if a million reds marched especially in a peaceful manner.

[elcent]

I don't think that this is the Johnnie Walker day. It will be going back and forth until May. Then it could get serious.

[givenall]

How To Stop The Million Man March Legitimately

Laugh as hard as you can

[Preacher]

How To Stop The Million Man March Legitimately

Laugh as hard as you can

Now that is what I call a good, peace full, legal and sensible way. It might actually work too.

[WeeGB]

March. Protest. But please no airport seizure, no guns, no building seizures, no murders, no molotovs, no bus hijacking, no threatening to blow up LPG trucks.....

Did I leave anything out?

Yes - no foot clappers.

[Jingthing]

Not even 100,000 Thais will march, even if you pay them.

It's a shame the leader of the Reds is Thaksin.

Yes it is. Him and his copy cat proxies.

[tonywebster]

Democrats are legally and legitimately leading the nation now and have a responsibilty to do what is right -

That is how the middle / upper classes that want their grip on power to remain at any cost see it. However the lower / working classes see it rather differently, and there is the reason for the tension, if Abhisit and his bosses really wanted what was best for Thailand as a whole then surely holding an election and actually sticking with the result would end any feelings of injustice.

I am not a Thaksin apologist, I would just like the majority to get their voice heard, sadly they are unlikely to ever get a fair crack of the whip.

Exactly, instead of spouting rubbish about winning 240 seats, let us see him put his money where his mouth is, plus I am sure he would be happier being in power deservedly rather than sneaking in through the back door because the Thai people have not voted his party into power for at least the past three elections, maybe longer, I cant be bothered to look back and see who was in power before Thaksin.

The guy has no balls to do this, he would rather snide his way forward, but to be honest it is probably a moot point judging by the opinion polls on how he and his party are performing, I am wondering when any of his aims will come to fruition.

[Ulysses G.]

To the supporters of apartheid Mandela was a terrorist.

He supported and helped plan and execute strikes against innocent civilans. He was a terrorist in pretty much anyone's eyes.

[tonywebster]

Yes we are talking about apples and oranges.

1) Dems and vote buying: Obfscation since party leadership versus the actions of an individual are not the same. Parties are dissolved when party LEADERSHIP is involved in electoral fraud. The Democrat party has not been found guilty of this. Members of many parties have been redcarded for this.

Leadership versus the action of an individual are not the same. Using this to obfuscate the issue is a poor argument since it compares what an individual has done in a single constituency to what party leadership has done across the board.

2)The dems did not win enough seats to form a government. Again outright obfusctaion. NOBODY won enough votes to form a government on their own. All three governments formed after the last elections have been coalition governments.

3)The dems were only able to form a government due to the last one being dissolved. Outwardly true BUT actually just speculation. Had PPP not been dissolved it is not unreasonable to assume that they would have lost their coalition partners and the Democrats would have been able to do what they did.

4)The dems could call an election but they would lose. Speculation and truly BASE speculation. Nobody got a clear majority in the last election and there is no reason to believe that the dems would not gain some seats and that they might be able to form the next coalition government. The REAL issue here is would the dems be doing the right thing for their constituents OR the country if they called early elections? The first is obviously no, the people that voted for them are best served by them continueing until the end of their term. The second question is, would a new election and the divisiveness it may cause HELP the country or hurt it? Arguable from either side but it just doesn't make sense and it leaves the questions, will PTP be buying votes and will PTP allow all candidates to run for office in each constituency? History might suggest that NO is the answer to both questions.

5)The "red gambit" --- bring out the PAD and link an entire party to the PAD due to the appearance on stage of a few. The vast majority of the Democratic party AND the Democratic leadership had nothing to do with any civil unrest OR the airport takeover.

Here's a good point to compare the Dems with PTP --- PTP leadership (TOP leadership) have stated they will whitewash Thaksin's crimes should they gain power while nobody is trying to whitewash the PAD. There are still PAD leadership that are active as defendants for many cases that are progressing. (The next red gambit is to ask why the speed of events are slower for the PAD than the reds and Thaksin --- the answer is that when a defendant is linked with others and asks for postponements they get them, link 9 together and then scheduling becomes an issue -- the fact that none of them have run away should be quite telling about many things).

As for you being "red", I am sorry but you obviously are red to the core. Your "facts" are mostly obfuscation and speculation and you stick solely with the "red" side, thus showing your bias (at least very plainly showing it to me!)

The only point that we can actually agree on is your last --- I am not stupid.

1. dissolved or not, the FACT is the dems were also involved in vote buying so they can hardly hold the moral high ground.

2. They did not win enough votes to form the government and were not able to form alliances to form the government, so what makes you think they were wanted to form the government. the FACT is they were only able to form the government after the break up of the ruling party, the one that had enough seats and were able to form coalitions with MINOR parties to hold the office. The FACT that the dems were not wanted in this or the previous two elections shows the people did not want them in power. Is this really so hard to understand?

3. Pure hyperbole, the FACT is they were dissolved and this is the only reason that led to the dems being handed power, it is not by the vote of the people, rather than buying, yes buying coalitions in order to form the government. Think back to the actual time and the amounts paid by the dems to form these coalitions.

4. If the dems feel they will win the next election then let them call one, nobody is stopping this and a win will in fact give them an extended term based on the past year they have been in charge (I use this term loosely). But I suppose the fact that only one man has ever seen out his term and got elected probably worries the dems as they probably can already guess their fate. May as well put themselves and the country out of its misery and fall on their sword as they seem to be doing nothing to move the country forward. all smoke and mirrors and no real action.

5. The yellows were/are allied to the PAD hence kasit being made foreign minister, this relationship broke down when more PAD members were not given high profile positions in the cabinet. Added to the fact that during the yellows crimes the dems made no attempt to condemn them and quite happliy sneaked into power on the back of their actions. In fact anybody decent would have called an election at this point, I wonder if abhisit is ashamed every morning when he wakes up that he is in control of a government that was not elected by the people and is only able to manage because of a dissolution.

Am I a red? only in my football team, I have already explained that I am neither but at no point did I realise that this forum was only for people who favour the dems or PAD, I guess it would change it's name if that was the case. If someone makes a balanced post that argues the point for bothe sides equally then there is no need to counter any argument, if someone is so biased with their hatred of all things red then there is no harm in putting another side of the argument. Surely if your posts are factual then you have nothing to worry about if someone tries to counter them.

As for your last comment, that is open to debate.

[tonywebster]

I see you are in the thread, no doubt writing another boring one sided novel, I have made my point and see no point in entering into further dialogue with you, you clearly think I am a red shirted supporter when I have clearly stated I am not, i would have no shame is admitting it if that was the case as it would be nothing to be ashamed about.

our conversation is over, back to fruits, I say tomato you say tomayto.

[rixalex]

no doubt writing another boring one sided novel,

Quite ridiculous for you to be making that accusation. Nothing in the slightest bit balanced about your rantings.

I have made my point and see no point in entering into further dialogue with you,

Surely if your posts are factual then you have nothing to worry about if someone tries to counter them.

you clearly think I am a red shirted supporter when I have clearly stated I am not, i would have no shame is admitting it if that was the case as it would be nothing to be ashamed about.

Nothing to be ashamed about being a red supporter? How about Black Songkran? Would you be proud of that? How is it that you can have so much disdain for the acts of the yellows at the airport (on which i agree with you btw), but feel no shame in the acts of the reds?