Solution For Double Pricing?

[ThailandTommy]

This was taken from Chiang Mai Mail, it is an excerpt from an email from the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

"Pricing guidelines for tourism attractions that are wholly owned, funded and operated by private sector operators.

Current legal guidelines on pricing stipulate unequivocally that there can only be one price charged for entrance /admission fees and that this must also be prominently displayed.

Business are however, granted the freedom to undertake marketing and promotional activities, and may for example legally offer non-discriminatory group discounts.

Thailand abides by internationally recognised consumer protection practices. In the event that an individual consumer eels that they have been subjected to unfair business practices, these grievances can be filed with the Consumer Protection Board for Thai nationals or the Minister of Tourism and Sports Office of Tourism of Tourism Development for visitors to Thailand"

Reporting unethical practice;

Tel/Fax +66 (0) 221 66512. E Mail: [email protected]

The first thing that struck me was that it appears that the Government can implement duel pricing (For example at National Parks) but if the business is privately owned you are prevented from doing so by law.

I wonder if Chiangmai zoo is government or privately owned as their web site clearly states a higher admission price for foreigners?

I also assume that it would cover privately owned tuk tuks and taxis?

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

well given that so many laws are seemingly just suggestions in Thailand then I would not expect a lot of traction for this one. How about traffic, helmet, burning, littering, bribery, prostitution and the list goes on of activities that are supposed to be illegal.

It's the thought that counts right?

[garyh]

Chok Dee

[robblok]

Chok Dee

Just send an email reporting some venues.. I wont get my hopes up but who knows hel_l might freeze over.

[Maizefarmer]

Dual pricing is illegal - period - there is nothing in the legislation that I know about, or have heard about, that permitts or allows the government to practise dual pricing (i.e. I haven't read the legislation, but I'd be very suprized if there was a clause that exempted government).

National parks are government - yes, right at the top of the pyramid I guess they are, but they are left alone as independant entities to get on with the job, and my guess is that the dual pricing national parks practise, would, if it were challenged in a court, be found just as illegal as any other dual pricing practise.

In reality the only way to put a stop to it is to launch a campaign that gets all foreigners to turn there backs and walk away from anything that is dual priced - then you'll see just how quickly "dual pricing" comes to a stop. The problem is, I just can't see much success in getting everyone to participate. As CobraSnakenecktie points out: Thailand is home ground to many illegal practises which the authorities tolerate and turn a blind eye to.

[Garry9999]

There is no double pricing, it's just that Thai nationals get a discount

[Abrak]

National parks are government - yes, right at the top of the pyramid I guess they are, but they are left alone as independant entities to get on with the job, and my guess is that the dual pricing national parks practise, would, if it were challenged in a court, be found just as illegal as any other dual pricing practise.

Dual pricing is totally logical for Government Parks. The cost of maintaining them is paid out of taxes paid by Thais and these Parks are owned by the Nation. Why should they have to double pay to go into an asset they already own. Or put another way why should they subsidize tourists. It is clearly fair in my view. Private enterprises are simply price discriminating to maximize profit. It is to their benefit but not in the general interest of the tourist industry so is essentially private profiteering at the publics expense.

[WarpSpeed]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

Edited March 7, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

The reason the TAT is trying to get these attractions prices down is because they know a foreign tourist will generate far more tax and economic revenue than the few hundred extra baht in park fees. For every additional new tourist they pay more than that just to land in Thailand to AOT.

Just think off all the taxes on booze, transportation, high end hotels. It's going to far outweigh the small revenue amount at national parks.

Its the same reason most govt's keep fuel taxes low or even subsidize prices because they know the revenue benefit from greater economic activity will far outweigh the fuel tax benefit.

In a similar vein a restaurant will break even or lose money on their food operation just to entice customers to visit and spend a lot on alcohol. Have to look at the overall portfolio effect of commerce. It's at least showing a glimmer of commonsense from TAT planners.

[William Osborne]

Last time I was hit with duel pricing ended up with me doing a 3 point turn and heading back home .....

[Finlaco]

When people suggest u compare the price to ur own country I think it's like me asking them "Is ฿100 a reasonable price to pay for a ฿30 bowl of noodles on the street, because the Shangrila charges ฿350"

[Finlaco]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

the average Thai pays very little tax. At most, and on a generous day, an additional ฿20 added to a NP admission could be considered tax related. 10 times can't be justified. If taxation is a reasonable argument, why doesn't Singapore, Malaysis or Taiwan engage in such practice. Wait I know why, tourists are treated with respect.

[Loz]

Rooks AKA Korat Country Club in Nakornratchasima has a "discount" for thais only HALF THE PRICE OF FARANG. Even when I joined a private golf club with an agreed discount, as soon as tried to play a round at the agreed price it resulted in a call to the club secretary who was only able to negotiate 20% (thais get 50%). ANYONE with a VISA card can get 20% off!!!

The owners are hard assed farang haters!

Love to see them held to account for this...

[phetaroi]

Dual pricing is illegal - period - there is nothing in the legislation that I know about, or have heard about, that permitts or allows the government to practise dual pricing (i.e. I haven't read the legislation, but I'd be very suprized if there was a clause that exempted government).

What an absurd post.

First you say, "Dual pricing is illegal - period..."

Then you say, "there is nothing in the legislation that I know about..."

Then you say, "I haven't read the legislation..."

[Finlaco]

^I agree with you're analogy and as well if you live in Thailand and contribute to the tax base you get same pricing as any Thai with just proof of your residency at the national parks.. A Thai drivers license or work permit is evidence enough..

*edit* That also includes zoo's etc. and even most private attractions as well.

Abrak & Warpspeed. Which country are u from? Could u give some examples of similar practices in ur country. Do u really think taxation justifies 10 times Thai entrance fee? Really? On a generous day I'd say it might cover an extra ฿20 to the Thai entrance. For most

[kelboy]

yea,if you have a thai driving licence

you pay the same as thai and that can

save you a lot over a year.

kda

[gregb]

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

To date, there has only been 1 time when I have gotten into a fight at the entrance to the national park and eventually turned around and went home, but that 1 time was enough to turn me off to going to the national parks for good.

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

The only time I have not made a terrible stink about this is on the 3rd class train from Hualampong. Even I refuse to get into a fist fight over 5 baht, but it still annoys me that they can get away with blatantly illegal and immoral acts.

[Abrak]

Abrak & Warpspeed. Which country are u from? Could u give some examples of similar practices in ur country. Do u really think taxation justifies 10 times Thai entrance fee? Really? On a generous day I'd say it might cover an extra ฿20 to the Thai entrance. For most

I come from a relatively small second world nation in Europe known as England.

Last time I was there I was at least double charged (GBP350) for a room the size of a shoebox at a hotel called the Metropolitan. Double charged in the sense it could hardly be worth half as much. Its major feature was the smallest bathroom I have ever been into. Still that is just overpricing I would guess to fleece the average tourist. When I arrived at the hotel they kindly valet parked my car but added GBP14 to my bill for a service that I have never had to pay for in Thailand - I would certainly regard this as double charging as you would have thought it came free with the shoebox. Having kindly parked my car I found the next morning an extra charge of GBP40 for the space. Again I have never been charged for a parking space in a hotel in Thailand. Again I regard this as double charging although admittedly there wasnt enough room in my shoebox to fit the car. So in my view that was GBP240 double charging in one night and I havent even got to their Japanese Canteen. Now I have been double charged in Thailand over the past 15 years but I doubt the whole amount adds up to GBP240.

To me it seems pretty ridiculous to complain about Bt400 to enter a National Park when you would have been charged Bt4,000 back home. And think even if the Thai paid Bt400, the same as you, he would certainly have the right to complain about 10x charging in the UK. What a ridiculous thing to say the Thais dont pay much tax - the costs of maintaining their National Parks dont come out of thin air. And Thailand is trying to stop private operators benefiting from double charging while UK operators seem to enjoy taking the piss. Having charged me GBP14 for valet parking which took 3 minutes, the guy actually asked for a tip.

Anyway I think we should all make a stand about this ridiculous behavior. I cant actually believe that any tourists go to the UK anymore but I think the UK should be boycotted until such behavior is declared illegal by the human rights commission. As for double charging in Thailand dont you think it is an incredibly trivial issue a bit like discussing which bar to go to save Bt2 on a bottle of Chang.

[getgoin]

Get over the dual pricing and consider it a discount for locals. Done in a lot of places in the world including US state universities. My other suggestion is, and most people disregard my advise, is to earn more, complain less and well, you know where to go.

[Abrak]

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

To date, there has only been 1 time when I have gotten into a fight at the entrance to the national park and eventually turned around and went home, but that 1 time was enough to turn me off to going to the national parks for good.

As a Thai resident, I am entitled to the Thai price. Period. End of story. If you disagree then you are simply wrong.

The only time I have not made a terrible stink about this is on the 3rd class train from Hualampong. Even I refuse to get into a fist fight over 5 baht, but it still annoys me that they can get away with blatantly illegal and immoral acts.

As a Thai resident (assuming permanent) you will be excited to know at the age of 60 you are entitled to a Bt30 medical card that you can use at Government Hospitals.

[gregb]

Get over the dual pricing and consider it a discount for locals. Done in a lot of places in the world including US state universities. My other suggestion is, and most people disregard my advise, is to earn more, complain less and well, you know where to go.

Would everyone please just do me a favour and distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity?

The first is legal and practised world wide. The second is very illegal and practised only in Thailand.

I will say it again.

Please distinguish between dual pricing based on residency and dual pricing based on citizenship/ethnicity.

Thank you.

[WarpSpeed]

the average Thai pays very little tax. At most, and on a generous day, an additional ฿20 added to a NP admission could be considered tax related. 10 times can't be justified. If taxation is a reasonable argument, why doesn't Singapore, Malaysis or Taiwan engage in such practice. Wait I know why, tourists are treated with respect.

Did I justify 10 times difference?? I am also more referring to full timers not tourists are you a tourist? I doubt very much if most tourists know the difference or even care for that matter, this entire debate is expats whining about unfair treatment which honestly doesn't really exist for you if you know the system and how to use it..

I know personally as it only took me only a couple of times before I learned how to use the system... I don't get hooked with double pricing anymore so I guess that's why I'm not bitter..

Edited March 7, 2010 by WarpSpeed

[WarpSpeed]

yea,if you have a thai driving licence

you pay the same as thai and that can

save you a lot over a year.

kda biggrin.gif thumbsup.gif drunk.gif

This is what I'm talking about I never pay double pricing and all it takes is one phone call before showing up, but at National parks it's a given, they charge the same as Thai's.. A work permit will suffice too.. Any proof of residency..There are options for the creative, inspired and motivated.. All others just whinge.....

[WinnieTheKhwai]

While showing a drivers license or work permit solves the issue for myself, it's offers no solution when sightseeing with visiting friends or family. The national park fees are plainly absurd for what's on offer, so we tend to avoid the ones where admission is charged. We lose out, and Thailand loses out in the end because many tourists don't get to see or do particular things, so they're less impressed when getting home, meaning less word of mouth advertising, etc.

Last time I was hit with duel pricing ended up with me doing a 3 point turn and heading back home .....

Pfff. No J-turn/Moonshiner's turn?? More rewarding.

[bobthai]

Top man i tottaly agree with you,

i am from the same thirld world nation so when i leave said nation i will turn off the lights and lock my car in your shoe box?

[bifftastic]

Abrak & Warpspeed. Which country are u from? Could u give some examples of similar practices in ur country. Do u really think taxation justifies 10 times Thai entrance fee? Really? On a generous day I'd say it might cover an extra ฿20 to the Thai entrance. For most

I come from a relatively small second world nation in Europe known as England.

Last time I was there I was at least double charged (GBP350) for a room the size of a shoebox at a hotel called the Metropolitan. Double charged in the sense it could hardly be worth half as much. Its major feature was the smallest bathroom I have ever been into. Still that is just overpricing I would guess to fleece the average tourist. When I arrived at the hotel they kindly valet parked my car but added GBP14 to my bill for a service that I have never had to pay for in Thailand - I would certainly regard this as double charging as you would have thought it came free with the shoebox. Having kindly parked my car I found the next morning an extra charge of GBP40 for the space. Again I have never been charged for a parking space in a hotel in Thailand. Again I regard this as double charging although admittedly there wasnt enough room in my shoebox to fit the car. So in my view that was GBP240 double charging in one night and I havent even got to their Japanese Canteen. Now I have been double charged in Thailand over the past 15 years but I doubt the whole amount adds up to GBP240.

To me it seems pretty ridiculous to complain about Bt400 to enter a National Park when you would have been charged Bt4,000 back home. And think even if the Thai paid Bt400, the same as you, he would certainly have the right to complain about 10x charging in the UK. What a ridiculous thing to say the Thais dont pay much tax - the costs of maintaining their National Parks dont come out of thin air. And Thailand is trying to stop private operators benefiting from double charging while UK operators seem to enjoy taking the piss. Having charged me GBP14 for valet parking which took 3 minutes, the guy actually asked for a tip.

Anyway I think we should all make a stand about this ridiculous behavior. I cant actually believe that any tourists go to the UK anymore but I think the UK should be boycotted until such behavior is declared illegal by the human rights commission. As for double charging in Thailand dont you think it is an incredibly trivial issue a bit like discussing which bar to go to save Bt2 on a bottle of Chang.

Whilst I can understand your anger at being, in your opinion, over-charged in England (or double-charged) isn't this thread about dual pricing? ie. there being two different prices for the same thing? One for Thais and another (higher price) for non-Thais? That's a different thing altogether isn't it?

[bifftastic]

Top man i tottaly agree with you,

i am from the same thirld world nation so when i leave said nation i will turn off the lights and lock my car in your shoe box?

must have missed the big light switch...is it at Heathrow? You won't be able to park your car in his shoe-box...it wouldn't fit, remember? Anyway the bloke at the door will have whisked it away and charged you 14 quid.

Staying at an expensive hotel in England is just that, expensive. How is that indicative of anything other than how expensive it is? What it has to do with lights being switched off is beyond me...other than, perhaps, a reference to a newspaper headline that was, if I remember correctly...'will the last person leaving the country turn the lights off'

How does that have anything to do with dual-pricing either in the UK or in Thailand?

Your post has has more relevance to a discussion of literacy levels than anything else.

Or have you seized upon an opportunity to join in with the 'this country's <deleted>*ked' brigade at the slightest mention of anything in the UK you think is wrong?

[Finlaco]

'bifftastic'. U seem to chose to mis-understand what is dual pricing. Also like many who think dual pricing isn't important, you fail to notice the negative affects on peoples lives. I have travelled extensively in Thailand and the parts of the country where dual pricing isn't practiced, the Thai remain polite and kind. The places where tuk tuk mafia ensure dual pricing, the Thai change and become extremely rude and aggressive. One would think it would be the opposite way around. Dual pricing can destroy a tourist destination, when practiced by Thai.

Ubon  train station V Nong Khai train station. Ubon has few tourists and the songthaews fixed price is enforced.  When I arrived I had one polite tuk tuk driver ask if I wanted his service. I smiled and in Thai said songthaew is fine.  He smiled back and politely directed me to where the songthaew was parked. No dual pricing and polite. 

Nong Khai train station and the samlar engage in dual pricing.  Many of the drivers rude and impolite with the tourists who can't speak Thai. Most drivers not happy that I'm speaking to them in Thai and won't pay three times the price.  The driver and touts are pulling and pushing the farang like they are cattle.  Several farang obviously angry.  Two bangkokian students ask me what the real price should be to the boarder and I help them. 

The driver confirms we're going to the town but heads towards the bridge not the city.  I push the bell until he stops. He beckons rudely for me to go to him, I make him come to me and he says he's going to the visa shop first, then the bridge and then town. All of this in the back of a hot samlar. A 10 minute journey suddenly becomes 45+. My friend and I get out and on the 4th attempt got a tuk tuk to take us to our guesthouse ฿50.  The tuk tuk driver pointed out many places of interest on the way to the guesthouse and was very polite.  Nong Khai is a beautiful city and we meet many nice locals during our stay. 

So u decide. Dual pricing good or bad? Is it as simple as ฿2 or ฿20 or ฿200  

[Finlaco]

'bifftastic'. When u have lived a little longer in Thailand and open ur eyes a little more, u'll quickly learn that the average Thai pays less than 10% tax ( based on 4 Thai friends earning middle income salaries).

We're all entitled to our own opinion, just not the facts. Thailand is trying to move away from sex tourism and backpacker and into self drive family holidays. If u feel that ฿1,400 for a family of 4 with car is reasonable by Thai standards, that's ur opinion. But taxation can not explain ten times the entrance fee.

So maybe u could give a real example of dual pricing from the UK? Ahh, ok, I thought not.

[MartinL]

I come from a relatively small second world nation in Europe known as England.

Whatever you might think and despite its current economic & social problems, UK is still a good place to call home even when you live abroad. As just a small example of the benefits of being (among others) British - no tourist visa needed for Thailand and MANY other countries. Try that on a Nigerian passport.

Last time I was there I was at least double charged (GBP350) for a room the size of a shoebox at a hotel called the Metropolitan. Double charged in the sense it could hardly be worth half as much. Its major feature was the smallest bathroom I have ever been into. Still that is just overpricing I would guess to fleece the average tourist. When I arrived at the hotel they kindly valet parked my car but added GBP14 to my bill for a service that I have never had to pay for in Thailand - I would certainly regard this as double charging as you would have thought it came free with the shoebox. Having kindly parked my car I found the next morning an extra charge of GBP40 for the space. Again I have never been charged for a parking space in a hotel in Thailand. Again I regard this as double charging although admittedly there wasnt enough room in my shoebox to fit the car. So in my view that was GBP240 double charging in one night and I havent even got to their Japanese Canteen. Now I have been double charged in Thailand over the past 15 years but I doubt the whole amount adds up to GBP240.

The prices you were charged reflect your own (stupid) choice to stay in an expensive hotel. What do you expect? There are many (relatively) cheap & adequate hotels in UK so why on earth do you have to choose one charging GBP350 a night? All I, and most people I know, ask of a hotel is that I get a good night's kip. I sleep no better in a GBP350 a night room than in one costing GBP50 a night. As for needing someone to park the car ..... how bloody lazy can you get? More money than sense, IMO. Or perhaps you like to boast to your mates that you can stay in "posh" hotels. Expensive hotels are a rip-off, wherever you might travel. Prices are the same whether British or foreign, which is not always the case in Thailand.

And No, I'm not a backpacker - although I see no reason not to travel in that style and did so in my younger days - but a retired Consulting Engineer who has stayed in a number of expensive hotels around the world (at someone else's expense ) in my time and been mightily unimpressed with them.

To me it seems pretty ridiculous to complain about Bt400 to enter a National Park when you would have been charged Bt4,000 back home. And think even if the Thai paid Bt400, the same as you, he would certainly have the right to complain about 10x charging in the UK. What a ridiculous thing to say the Thais dont pay much tax - the costs of maintaining their National Parks dont come out of thin air. And Thailand is trying to stop private operators benefiting from double charging while UK operators seem to enjoy taking the piss. Having charged me GBP14 for valet parking which took 3 minutes, the guy actually asked for a tip.

Entry to British National Parks is free to all, regardless of nationality, race or tax status.

Anyway I think we should all make a stand about this ridiculous behavior. I cant actually believe that any tourists go to the UK anymore but I think the UK should be boycotted until such behavior is declared illegal by the human rights commission. As for double charging in Thailand dont you think it is an incredibly trivial issue a bit like discussing which bar to go to save Bt2 on a bottle of Chang.

Edited March 8, 2010 by MartinL